My Opinion of Eder's Usefulness Has Changed

[Marigoldran]

At first I thought he was "less tanky than a herald" and "does less dps than a dps built character". What role does he fill in a party? Why should I include him?

 

The answer is: mage killing.  Unlike pure rogues, Swashbucklers can teleport to the enemy backlines and survive a standup fight against multiple opponents.  That means you can stick Eder on a mage or a priest and that mage or priest will NEVER cast a spell again.  

 

Since most fights are won or lost by how effectively you can crush or interrupt their spellcasters, this means Eder is rather useful despite not being as tanky as a herald or as "DPS" as like a Helwalker/Ascendant.  It also helps that an Eder in the enemy backline is the perfect target for Cipher spells like Echoplastic Echoes and Pain Block.  

Edited January 23, 2019 by Marigoldran

[thelee]

me when reading the post:

 

Unlike pure rogues, Swashbucklers can teleport to the enemy backlines   

what about Escape or Shadowing Beyond or Smoke Veil?

 

and survive a standup fight against multiple opponents

...oh

 

 

You could also do this with a pure Eder fighter. Use charge to the backlines and just mule kick the mage forever (queue up successive uses with shift key) with Disciplined Barrage active for the extra accuracy of Aware. Even immunity to interrupts doesn't prevent from being knocked up into the air. I think the only important part is the fighter's tankiness, the rogue part isn't as important.

Edited January 23, 2019 by thelee

[brasilgringo]

 

 <<(queue up successive uses with shift key) >>

 

How does queuing work? I've never been able to get it to work.  Help!

 

(Also I can't figure out how to hotkey stuff or to remove hotkeys from stuff I somehow hotkeyed by accident).

[Marigoldran]

But Swashbucklers kill mages faster (Deathblows, Persistent Distraction, Sneak Attack, etc.), which means Eder can more quickly teleport to the NEXT target.  Also, Devil of Caroc armor is better for a Swashbuckler than a Fighter.  

 

Fighters kill targets 1-on-1 too slowly compared to Swashbucklers.  A fighter shuts down mages, but Swashbucklers shut down mages AND kill them.  It's primarily the rogue passives that you want.  

 

Also, as a rogue, he can blind spellcasters, which is just as useful and more resource efficient than constantly knocking a mage into the air.  Once a mage has their eyes gouged out, Eder can just autoattack him to death.  

Edited January 23, 2019 by Marigoldran

[thelee]

 

 <<(queue up successive uses with shift key) >>

 

How does queuing work? I've never been able to get it to work.  Help!

 

(Also I can't figure out how to hotkey stuff or to remove hotkeys from stuff I somehow hotkeyed by accident).

 

 

hotkeys: hover over an ability and press a key on your keyboard that isn't bound to anything else. Now it's bound to a hotkey. To remove, hover over a hotkey-ed ability and either press a different key (changing the key) or the same key (removing the hotkey).

 

for queuing: after targeting an ability, select a different ability, and as you click to finalize the target, hold shift. now after you do the first ability, your character will start moving onto the next ability. as far as I can tell, there's no limit to the queue length (a common thing I do is summon animated weapons via the chanter invocation, and then queue 11 knockdowns, 11 wounding shots, 11 flames of devotion... I quickly hotkey the ability with "q" and then do Q->boss, Q->shift-click boss, Q->shift-click boss, etc. while audibly counting out 1-11. I can do this pretty quickly, and even if it's a little tedious, the reward to be pereptually interrupting a boss throughout their summon duration is worth it).

 

Some caveats to queuing: you can queue untargeted abilities, but you have to click on the ability to do so. If you use a hotkey, it doesn't work (the game interprets shift->hotkey as you trying to do some other key sequence I think). If you queue up a physical attack (no ability, just attacking an enemy) I think because that never "completes", you'll be attacking forever, at least that's how it worked in PoE1. You can also use Queueing to move, so click-to-move, then shift-click-to-move, etc and you'll watch your character go through all the waypoints you created. Useful for getting a character to move around enemies without getting too close to get engaged.

Edited January 23, 2019 by thelee

[Frak]

At first I thought he was "less tanky than a herald" and "does less dps than a dps built character". What role does he fill in a party? Why should I include him?

 

It's your bro, Edér! He's got your front. Thats why you bring him. 

 

Ofc canon Eddie is a pure fighter - I will wrestle people in mud if they argue otherwise - and therefore you cannot make him a rogue, rouge or wishy-washybuckler. 

[Frog Man]

even your posts that aren’t about heralds are about heralds

[Razorchain]

It depends on the group composition. I tend to use Eder as a fighter tank or swashbuckler. I have better ways to deal with priority targets.

[Marigoldran]

Like shooting them with Maia or an Ascendant/Cipher.  I understand.  But I don't like Maia and I'd rather use game companions and Xoti is pretty useless until Whispers of the Wind and Resonance and Inner Death so I'm left with Eder.  It's not like you can have Serefen leap into the back lines and stay alive.  

 

I agree that Eder is middle of the road and no good compared to what we can custom build (e.g. Berserker/Paladin- Bounding Leap and Spirit Frenzy for maximum backline disruption.  Pally for tankiness).  But if you have to use him as a companion then he fits into the "mage interference role" better than the "tank" role as Pallegina is simply the better tank.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Marigoldran

[Nssheepster]

 

At first I thought he was "less tanky than a herald" and "does less dps than a dps built character". What role does he fill in a party? Why should I include him?

 

It's your bro, Edér! He's got your front. Thats why you bring him. 

 

Ofc canon Eddie is a pure fighter - I will wrestle people in mud if they argue otherwise - and therefore you cannot make him a rogue, rouge or wishy-washybuckler. 

 

I assumed, canonically, that he picked up the rogue skills AFTER he left. With either the Night Market, or while being a Mayor of a very, very sketchy town that once housed a cult. Also, I assume a prosperous town would attract rogues anyways, and Eder strikes me as the sort to get bored just being a mayor.

[Razorchain]

Like shooting them with Maia or an Ascendant/Cipher. I understand. But I don't like Maia and I'd rather use game companions and Xoti is pretty useless until Whispers of the Wind and Resonance and Inner Death so I'm left with Eder. It's not like you can have Serefen leap into the back lines and stay alive.

 

I agree that Eder is middle of the road and no good compared to what we can custom build (e.g. Berserker/Paladin- Bounding Leap and Spirit Frenzy for maximum backline disruption. Pally for tankiness). But if you have to use him as a companion then he fits into the "mage interference role" better than the "tank" role as Pallegina is simply the better tank.

I tend to use story companions once or twice or just switch them in/out of a custom party to do their quest of the loot is wort it.

 

In my current play through... Or one of them I use Eder as unchained swashbuckler via mods to hold the line while my MC helwalker/Streetfighter deals with the backline

[Enoch]

even your posts that aren’t about heralds are about heralds

Say what you want, I, for one, am enjoying the successive episodes of the "Marigoldran 'discovers' all 66 potential class options, one by one" show.

[Frog Man]

 

even your posts that aren’t about heralds are about heralds

Say what you want, I, for one, am enjoying the successive episodes of the "Marigoldran 'discovers' all 66 potential class options, one by one" show.

Lol

[Marigoldran]

2 heralds, 1 Tekehu, 1 Eder and 45 second disintegrates from the Helwalker/Cipher.  

 

Heralds distract and apply Body Blows.  Tekehu hands out healing potions, Moonwells, and Lightning Storms (has Deltro's Cage and Lord Darryn's Voulge).  Eder kills/distracts the mages.  

 

Cipher ascends (quickly too, with Hunting Bow modal, Essence Interrupter, Dance of Death, and 30+ Might, +2 Pen, from wounds and Tenacious blows).  Casts Disintegrates during the 75 seconds of ascension (fast casting speed, too, due to 16-ish dex and swift flurry) and  It's over.  

 

A single disintegrate at 35 Int and 30+ Might can kill most bosses.  

Edited January 24, 2019 by Marigoldran

[Razorchain]

Why always Heralds?  I mean after Neketaka even on upscaled Potd a lot of fights are easy. I find the start the hardest part of the game, as you progress you have better gear, better buffs and debuffs.

 

Why not just have 1 Herald and maybe something else?

 

I mean you can tank most things through healing, CC's or just pure offense.  The faster you can kill things the less damage they can do to you

 

And even the for the tough fights you can always just use figurines if you need more boots on the ground.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Razorchain

[Marigoldran]

Multiple aura stacking.  Accuracy and crit aura AND armor and healing aura.  

 

Healing chants AND faster reload times AND extra fire damage AND damage shields.  

 

With one herald you have to select between these choices.  With two heralds you can select them all.  It's a right number for a party.  

 

Thinking of replacing Tekehu with a Sorcerer with Deltro's Cage, Lord Darryn's Voulge, and Bloodmage for mass Chain Lightning and Storm casts.  I mean the only reason I bring Tekehu along is for his potions spell.  

Edited January 24, 2019 by Marigoldran

[Verde]

even your posts that aren’t about heralds are about heralds

Why do you have another username Cartoons Plural?

 

Also when Boeroer mentions Morningstar in every thread you and the cronies slob all over him. But someone else gets excited about something different and it's 'off with his head'. Keep the peace yall.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Verde

[Razorchain]

Yes but when you replace your herald with something else you gain something as well

[Boeroer]

To be fair (towards myself ): I mention Morning Star when somebody asks for a good weapon choice for fighter, barb or monk (or Geomancer or Ranger)/how to debuff Fortitude/good two handed weapon.

 

I don't mention Morning Star if somebody wants to know... don't know... which dual wieldig setup his Devoted should pick or something.

 

And I even apologize for mentioning it so often (even though it fits). Same with mortars by the way.

 

Another Edér build I did was "Master of DoTs" where I stacked as many DoT effects as possible: Bleeding Cuts (Battle Axes), Deep Wounds, Arterial Strike, Gouging Strike, Ring the Bell, Toxic Strike. Those do all stack with each other (not necessarily with themselves though). Then I did "Full-Attack+Full-Attack and charged to another enemy while the first one bleeded out (if still alive). Also pretty good against tougher guys with high AR because the raw DoTs keep being... raw...

So, not so different from OP's approach. It's pretty fun.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Boeroer

[Frog Man]

 

even your posts that aren’t about heralds are about heralds

Why do you have another username Cartoons Plural?

 

Also when Boeroer mentions Morningstar in every thread you and the cronies slob all over him. But someone else gets excited about something different and it's 'off with his head'. Keep the peace yall.

Lmao. Just have the one username. But nice sleuthing Sherlock Holmes! You’ll catch the villain next time.

 

Your comment strongly suggests a lack of intellect. Speaking of intellect, anyone know of a multiclass combo that benefits from high intellect? Maybe something tanky that can summon and heal? I like chanters and paladins. Any ideas?

[Verde]

 

 

even your posts that aren’t about heralds are about heralds

Why do you have another username Cartoons Plural?

 

Also when Boeroer mentions Morningstar in every thread you and the cronies slob all over him. But someone else gets excited about something different and it's 'off with his head'. Keep the peace yall.

Lmao. Just have the one username. But nice sleuthing Sherlock Holmes! You’ll catch the villain next time.

 

Your comment strongly suggests a lack of intellect. Speaking of intellect, anyone know of a multiclass combo that benefits from high intellect? Maybe something tanky that can summon and heal? I like chanters and paladins. Any ideas?

It's always fun seeing someone implode. Enjoy your posting while you can

[Marigoldran]

The idea is to have heralds WITH morning stars who can switch to sword and shield (or dagger and shield, or club and shield) on demand.  

 

That way they can debuff and heal and summon and tank.   

 

I mean, it's not like they're going to personally do much damage, which means they have the freedom to fill every other role the party needs.  

 

Herald face tanks enemy, smacks it with a Morning Star, and then Cipher disintegrates it.  

Edited January 24, 2019 by Marigoldran

[Boeroer]

By the way: do you guys prefer to use Dagger + modal (high bonus but melee only) or hatchets (lower bonus,but universal). Or do you switch from hatchet + large shield if you get fired at to dagger + medium shield once you get attacked in melee?

[Razorchain]

This thread has spurred me on to be more offensive.......in the game of course :D

I'm dropping a proper tank and going for a Two handed Berserker/Lifegiver and Dual Wielding Paladin/Rogue as my front line supported in the back by Helwalker/Ascended, Wizard/Troupadour and whatever story companion strikes my fancy (but mostly Maia as a Gunhawk/Assassin)

[thelee]

By the way: do you guys prefer to use Dagger + modal (high bonus but melee only) or hatchets (lower bonus,but universal). Or do you switch from hatchet + large shield if you get fired at to dagger + medium shield once you get attacked in melee?

 

for defensive purposes, hatchet is better, no? if you consider other sources of +deflection, the dagger modal gets a lot worse because it doesn't stack, whereas both the inherent +3 on the hatchet and the -10 debuff "stacks" with any +deflection buffs. (anyway i prefer hatchet + large shield for general purpose tanky defense)

Edited January 24, 2019 by thelee