Which interrupts (Tactician) give back Discipline?

[QuiteGoneJin]

I do not think interrupting an auto or a reload does. Is it just spells and abilities? Wondering how often it would come into play (Thinking Tactful Debonair).

[Boeroer]

Yes, only interrupting a cast of an ability will give you discipline.

[Takkik]

Playing a tactician/bloodmage, I'm just at the begining, Brilliant tactician is the thing that give me most of my discipline (but you can setup it with team mate). Perhaps later with more fighter abilities and spells I'll get more interrupts.

[Domokun84]

TBH it's all about brilliance. You don't even need to worry abt proc for interrupting if you can get that flank buff off. Playing a tactician/bloodmage and it's just been crazy good with spells like chill fog (just bottle neck the enemies and get your aoe flank on).

 

Just never let your main get flanked or your pretty much useless.

[Purudaya]

Wouldn't a tactician/rogue be ideal for this (flanking multiple enemies with persistent distraction + all rogue abilities are interrupts)? I've seen a few tactician/mage builds but haven't seen many people commenting on synergies with rogue multis.

[guildwriter]

The issue with Rogues is that Smoke Cloud is a PL5 ability and Pernicious Cloud (the way they would apply mass Distracted) doesn't arrive until PL7 (at least level 19 for a MC char) and also has a bit of a finicky targeting system where it can be turned into a massive PBAoE that has a large red FF circle.  So unless you rely on mass engage it's harder than dropping a chill fog or one of the many ways Wizard can create perception afflictions quite early on.

Edited December 15, 2018 by guildwriter

[Boeroer]

Does Phantom Foes now properly trigger Brilliant Tactician?

 

And does Squid's Grasp (immunity to flanked) now work properly when determining if Brilliant Tactician gets triggered?

[Flucas]

Does Phantom Foes now properly trigger Brilliant Tactician?

 

And does Squid's Grasp (immunity to flanked) now work properly when determining if Brilliant Tactician gets triggered?

My thoughts

[Takkik]

Phantom foes works.

Tekehu chill fog that don't hit friends is good too. Miss a blind fight management like in pathfinder/d&d, because I cover the whole battlefield with fog!

 

The dex inspirations (t3) that make you immune to engagement, make you immune to flanking too or the two are separate?

[guildwriter]

Last I tested it seemed like immunity to flanking worked properly with Brilliant Tactician now.  

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Quick question that this seems to be the thread for -- any interrupt works? So, for example, a fighter/wizard using Thrust of Tattered Veils interrupting an enemy cast, you get a Discipline refund? 

 

Also, if you summon allies like the Writhing Tentacles, etc., and those allies are flanked, that ruins tactician, right?

Edited December 31, 2018 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[MaxQuest]

Quick question that this seems to be the thread for -- any interrupt works? So, for example, a fighter/wizard using Thrust of Tattered Veils interrupting an enemy cast, you get a Discipline refund?

Any interrupt works, provided that it landed while the enemy was casting. And that can be a problem... a terrified/stunned/paralyzed enemy won't be casting anything.

 

Also there are different abilities that interrupt. Some interrupt only on crit (e.g. Fan of Flames). Some on crit/hit (e.g. Crippling Strike). And only a handful interrupt on crit/hit/graze (e.g. Knockdown).

 

Also, if you summon allies like the Writhing Tentacles, etc., and those allies are flanked, that ruins tactician, right?

Haven't tested. And can't say for now.

In PoE1 for reference there were checks for "isAlly" - which would check just that (and even charmed enemies would be considered allied); and "isPartyMember" - that would take only companions into account.

Edited December 31, 2018 by MaxQuest

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

Quick question that this seems to be the thread for -- any interrupt works? So, for example, a fighter/wizard using Thrust of Tattered Veils interrupting an enemy cast, you get a Discipline refund?

Any interrupt works, provided that it landed while the enemy was casting. And that can be a problem... a terrified/stunned/paralyzed enemy won't be casting anything.

 

Also there are different abilities that interrupt. Some interrupt only on crit (e.g. Fan of Flames). Some on crit/hit (e.g. Crippling Strike). And only a handful interrupt on crit/hit/graze (e.g. Knockdown).

 

Also, if you summon allies like the Writhing Tentacles, etc., and those allies are flanked, that ruins tactician, right?

Haven't tested. And can't say for now.

In PoE1 for reference there were checks for "isAlly" - which would check just that (and even charmed enemies would be considered allied); and "isPartyMember" - that would take only companions into account.

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

Yeah, my thought is to set up scripting such that my Aloth tactician only uses knockdown when there is an enemy nearby who is casting, and then similarly script ToTV to hit ranged casting enemies only (I believe this should be possible with the enhanced AI conditionals mod). 

 

ANd yeah, the "isally" vs "ispartymember" is the thing I was wondering about. If tactician requires no allies be flanked, a lot of summons and so forth aren't nearly as useful, especially the stationary ones like Tentacles. 

[Frak]

I assume (haven't tested) that you get discipline back on interrupting anything involving a cast ability icon over the enemy. Just a FYI.

[Takkik]

I'm more advanced with my tactician/bloodmage (lvl 13-15) and sometimes I can get back a good amount of discipline while spamming fireball & co that interrupt on crit.

 

I think the game check for any ally, that mean if you charm an enemy and this one is blinded by your chill fog (or get flanked etc...) you loose brilliant. Same for any summon.

[TheSickness]

I'm running a Tactician/Wizard (No Subclass) through mid-game on PoTD right now, and it's definitely a powerful combo with the right team. 

 

Knockdown/Mule kick are great for interrupts, and ToTV is a good backup ranged option for messing with casters. Setting AI to cast ToTV on Is Spell Caster/Farthest Target when Discipline >2 produces some viable interrupts. Proccing spell/ability interrupts takes a lot of micro even with smart AI settings though, and Brilliant Tactician does the same thing (regenerate resources) better and more reliably as long as you get every enemy flanked.

 

Having a SC Cipher to back you up is the most important ingredient for getting Brilliant reliably, Phantom Foes has a massive AoE and only costs 20 focus. Ydwin works fine for this role, or hire a high-perception Beguiler. Rogue tanks (I'm using Eder as a SC Shield rogue and a hired Steel Garrote/Trickster with Whispers of Endless Paths) are excellent as well with Confounding Blind and then Persistent Distraction.

 

Chill Fog and Curse of Blackened Sight are crucial in early levels for finishing the job of flanking the whole map, though I stopped using Chill Fog due to its tendency to blind my team when they get pushed around or their AI decides to pick a target inside the fog. Tekehu's Foe-only version is superior and Tekehu (especially Theurge config) is a good party pick for this build in general.

 

Paralyze is always awesome, and Paralyzed enemies can't flank. Lesser Might afflicts prevent engagement, but don't seem to prevent flanking.

 

Deleterious Alacrity grants immunity to Engagement, but this does NOT make you immune to Flanked. Constant Recovery negates the HP loss and then some.

 

Get Squid's Grasp ASAP and remove the curse to gain immunity to Flanked (definitely works with Brilliant Tactician). Once you have Fearless for resistance to Resolve afflict (or pick Wild Orlan) and the DoC breastplate w/Int Afflict resist you can negate Tactical Dilemma and use a different weapon if you want, but Squid's Grasp is the most effective solution. Two Weapon fighting is recommended to always have Squid's Grasp in hand + Whatever. 

 

Fights tend to feel lopsided until you get Brilliant, but once your on top its over real fast for enemies as they get pummeled by regenerating offensive spells and constant blinding while you refresh defensive spells as necessary. Even if you never get there due to high enemy saves/too many spread out mobs, microing Knockdown/ToTV Interrupts can at least keep you swimming in discipline. I've found that engagement and actual flanking are kinda irrelevant with this team, and Tactical Wiz watcher is nigh-untouchable in melee with Deleterious Alacrity and whatever deflection-boosting spell active. Disciplined Strikes and other fighter abilities grant concentration for low cost, making you very hard to interrupt if anything does manage to hit you. Charge is a good mobility power when you get it, if you get physically trapped by a mob. Enemies resistant to Percept Afflict are annoying, but Blind downgraded to Distracted still makes enemies flanked. I believe Phantom Foes still works on these because "Flanked" is technically not a Percept afflict, though I'm not 100% sure on that one.

 

Bloodmage seems like it has synergy, but is actually redundant with Brilliant Tactician and denies you Empowered spells and emergency resource recovery. On the rare occasions I actually run out of spells and the Cipher is unable to Phantom Foes everything on the map, I still have tons of discipline to keep Disciplined Barrage up and Knockdown/Mule Kick everything in sight, which often regains Discipline just running on AI settings. Tactician/Evoker could work, but battles are more about control and afflictions than DMG, and the loss of versatility with potentially infinite spell casts probably doesn't make up for the marginal DPS boost. Could work if you want to focus on Ninagauth's grimoire. 

 

Certain abilities and classes are totally incompatible with any Tactician build. Summons are a huge liability because they can be flanked thus ruining your Brilliant. I haven't tested all summons, but an Ancient Druid's Sporelings getting flanked definitely counts as someone on your team being flanked.

 

Charm/Dominate can sometimes backfire (useful in the beginning of fights if there are tons of spread-out foes, same problems as summons it seems), Streetfighters are right out, Blunderbuss modal is out unless the user has resistance to Percept Afflict.

 

Tactician/Psion seems tempting, but Psion is real weak and Wiz spells are better at interrupting multiple enemies at high Acc/Crit anyway. Tactician/Rogue is probably viable, but requires being close enough to enemies for Persistent Distraction to have an effect, whereas Tactical Wiz can just zip around at insane speed ignoring engagement while spamming spells/knockdown. Spell slots are a more valuable resource than Guile or Focus IMO. There's probably some synergy with Paladin multi and Zeal is a powerful resource, but I haven't tested it.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Thanks, that's really interesting and the sort of post I was looking for.

 

I hadn't thought about just negating Tactical Dilemma with resistances to afflictions. The problem is that with a fighter/wiz there's a natural lean towards the summoned weapons and most of those are two-handed (and also not squid's grasp, obviously). 

 

I'd been thinking about maybe just scripting it so that (if flanked) (equip squid) but Fearless and a source of intellect affliction resistance makes sense, especially since you can probably steal the DoC before you can buy Squid's Grasp. Hrm. Problem is I'd been planning on using the Casita Samelia BP for increased Deflection, rather than the Devil BP. Maybe Modwyr? 

[MaxQuest]

^ You could also use related food/drugs:

- Immunity to intellect afflictions: Captain's Banquet

- Resistance to Intellect: Luminous Lobster, Svef

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

^ You could also use related food/drugs:

- Immunity to intellect afflictions: Captain's Banquet

- Resistance to Intellect: Luminous Lobster, Svef

 

Yeah, I thought about that but it lacks. . .elegance? I don't really want to bother with keeping food constantly going, I prefer to just stockpile lobsters for the fampyr fights and leave it at that.

 

Hrm. There's always https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Ring_of_Mule%27s_Wit 

[baldurs_gate_2]

Wouldn't a tactician/rogue be ideal for this (flanking multiple enemies with persistent distraction + all rogue abilities are interrupts)? I've seen a few tactician/mage builds but haven't seen many people commenting on synergies with rogue multis.

Persitent Distraction works only on one enemy, that you engage. But after the first meeting with eothas, you get .... of the lost and that distracts every enemy for a good amount of time, depending on your INT. But it is per rest, so you have to rest always after one encounter.

[TheSickness]

Thanks, that's really interesting and the sort of post I was looking for.

 

I hadn't thought about just negating Tactical Dilemma with resistances to afflictions. The problem is that with a fighter/wiz there's a natural lean towards the summoned weapons and most of those are two-handed (and also not squid's grasp, obviously). 

 

I'd been thinking about maybe just scripting it so that (if flanked) (equip squid) but Fearless and a source of intellect affliction resistance makes sense, especially since you can probably steal the DoC before you can buy Squid's Grasp. Hrm. Problem is I'd been planning on using the Casita Samelia BP for increased Deflection, rather than the Devil BP. Maybe Modwyr? 

 

I'm using weapons for their enchantments, thus 2 weapon fighting with Squid's Grasp and Modwyr provides resistance to my greatest weakness (Flanked), immunity to the most disabling class of Afflictions (Intellect), plus Modwyr's great DMG lash and speed boost. Knockdown is a primary attack though, so two weapon fighting doesn't do much there. If you don't use Berath's Blessings I think Squid's Grasp is affordable to buy and uncurse once you steal/sell everything not nailed down in Nekketaka + some early bounties. I had no problems with the early levels, just staying aware of positioning at all times and knocking down the right enemies can keep you from ever getting flanked. Squid's Grasp just removes all associated micromanagement.

 

Spirit Lance AoE is good, but in the time it takes to cast it I could have popped off Concussive Missiles/Ninugauth's Shadowflame/Ect. for huge DMG and Crit rate PLUS probable interrupt/paralyze, AND gotten halfway through casting Curse of Blackened Sight. I guess I'm playing the class as a frontline offensive caster, but there's a ton of flexibility for other Fighter/Wiz playstyles. Fearless (or Wild Orlan) + DoC breastplate (easily stolen) takes care of the afflictions of Tactical Dilemma, but the coolest thing about Squid's Grasp is that the Tactician can't muck up their own Brilliant Tactician by getting Flanked no matter how much you zip around, and requires no other particular items or abilities. You could definitely focus more on fighter powers and defensive spells if you want to go summoned weapons, but then you're stuck with DoC breastplate (not necessarily a bad thing).

 

Castia Samelia BP is what I used until I got Fleshmender. The +Deflection was useful, but better for my Paladin/Trickster with Riposte/WoTEP.

 

I'm definitely encountering some fights that are near impossible to Flank the entire map now due to mob placement/aggro range or ultra-high will saves.

Beware Ship Combat. The bane of many builds, I know, but especially bad for Tactician with ranged mobs in spread-out chokepoints, no control over your party's starting formation, and everyone who isn't currently in your party mucking things up all over the place. You likely will never get Brilliant Tactician in ship combat, though the fights aren't particularly hard for this party even at 1 Skull (or scaled). Just very annoying. 

 

This is much less of a problem at L13 than it was earlier due to key gear and plenty spell levels, and Ydwin just picked up Ancestor's Memory to make ANYONE in the party Brilliant.

 

Enemies that shrug off afflictions easily are becoming more common, but Proccing Brilliant Tactician for even 1 rd can be a huge boost in staying power. Even without resources or buffs to burn I remain deadly with auto-attacks and moderately durable despite crappy Resolve and Con. Cipher teammate is invaluable in this situation, as always with this build. 

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

*good stuff* 

 

 

 

Thanks again, these are all good tips.

 

I usually go with a PC cipher, so my plan for this run is to have an Aloth battlemage tactician (there's a mod), Eder Swashbuckler, etc. At the moment, I'm thinking I might drop squid / kapana tanga onto Eder, let Aloth go summoned/DoC, and see how that plays. Thanks!