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[Zoraptor]

Well, how much that install base buys them remains to be seen. I'm sure Origin had a rather large install base due to forcing it upon ME3 buyers, didn't particularly get them anywhere though. The main question is how much of that install base already has most of their games on Steam? The ones that have little investment there might be able to be persuaded, assuming the Epic store is any good (feature comparison with Steam didn't look too great for them, and that didn't even include all the security, privacy and refund policy concerns)

Fortnite is a lot bigger than ME3 though; of EA's properties maybe the Sims and FIFA would come close but that's about it.

 

EA came up with Origin because Steam tried to strongarm them into essentially becoming a subsidiary of Valve on PC- a tactic which worked for smaller players like Paradox who had to drop Connect or be kicked from their most lucrative store. The reason they did it is simple enough, if they sell 5 million copies of a game on Origin it's the financial equivalent of selling more than 7 million on steam even without taking into account them being able to control their own product instead of being beholden to Valve.

As for security, let's not forget that apart from the myriad of long term minor issues steam has and had they were also outright hacked, multiple times.

 

On the more fundamental level, all this stuff illustrates perfectly that a lot of PC fans and game franchise fans are actually just steam fans. They want the fripperies and appearance of competition so long as no one offers an actual alternative and so long as any 'competitors' can be shut down by Valve at a moments notice by revoking their right to steam keys or are niche like GOG.

 

 

But that's a Fortnite install base, the overlap in target audiences can't be that great.

As much as I'd like to see Valve cut down a peg I doubt timed exclusives will cut it.

 

 

There'd be a decent amount of overlap; it's pretty uncool for a 'core PC gamer' to admit to playing Fortnite but also 'core PC gamers' are nowhere near an actual majority of people who game on PC and are a self appointed and self selected group.

[SonicMage117]

Can you even mod a Denuvo game?

Yes, that was a myth debunked long ago.

 

Sonic Mania is just one example, and Denuvo wasn't even removed from it but yeah, pretty much every game with Denuvo has been modded.

[marelooke]

 

Well, how much that install base buys them remains to be seen. I'm sure Origin had a rather large install base due to forcing it upon ME3 buyers, didn't particularly get them anywhere though. The main question is how much of that install base already has most of their games on Steam? The ones that have little investment there might be able to be persuaded, assuming the Epic store is any good (feature comparison with Steam didn't look too great for them, and that didn't even include all the security, privacy and refund policy concerns)

Fortnite is a lot bigger than ME3 though; of EA's properties maybe the Sims and FIFA would come close but that's about it.

 

EA came up with Origin because Steam tried to strongarm them into essentially becoming a subsidiary of Valve on PC- a tactic which worked for smaller players like Paradox who had to drop Connect or be kicked from their most lucrative store. The reason they did it is simple enough, if they sell 5 million copies of a game on Origin it's the financial equivalent of selling more than 7 million on steam even without taking into account them being able to control their own product instead of being beholden to Valve.

As for security, let's not forget that apart from the myriad of long term minor issues steam has and had they were also outright hacked, multiple times.

 

On the more fundamental level, all this stuff illustrates perfectly that a lot of PC fans and game franchise fans are actually just steam fans. They want the fripperies and appearance of competition so long as no one offers an actual alternative and so long as any 'competitors' can be shut down by Valve at a moments notice by revoking their right to steam keys or are niche like GOG.

 

 

I don't find it hard to believe that people aren't interested in "competition" to Steam by companies with just as bad a reputation as Valve. That doesn't make them "fanboys" in my eyes. In fact the idea of being a fan of a store or service seems rather...odd...to me, but humans are gonna human, I guess.

 

And yeah, Gog is "niche" in the sense that they don't have a long-standing reputation of screwing over their customers at very turn. Pretty good niche to be in, from where I stand.

[SonicMage117]

Steam has alot of haters but they are very few and far between. You will see in almost every Steam forum game specific hub, certain users giving devs and publishers the ultimatum of "I won't buy your game unless you put it on GoG". These are always the same small amount of people though. They are loud and proud but not many of them. Devs never go for it because they know GoG sales and market vs Steam's track record.

 

 

Steam on the otherhand has the biggest digital gaming market place percentage - and with good reason. It's not like Origin, GoG and Epic Games Store combined user-base will make up 5% of Steam's user base, though many would like to believe it. That's why I laugh when someone claims that GoG or Origin could outlast Steam on any level.

 

Nevermind the fact that Steam is also the testing grounds for VR market, sells editing software, films and other things non-gaming which GoG, Origin and Epic don't do. Bit Epic DOES do early access for awesome games like Steam does. I know the argument will be "Greenlight games suck" but the fact of the matter woukd ne that Greenlight has brought more amazing games than not and it wouldn't go without saying that eveeyone here has benefitted from Steam's Greenlight.

 

 

Personal experience:

I have never been screwed over by Valve in the 5+ years that I've been on there, never had an issue with anything but maybe I'm just one of the lucky ones. Maybe Valve is really an evil mega-corporation and there's some tangible proof out there, somewhere....

 

Oh wait.

 

There is!

 

 

They continually troll us with Half Life 3!!

 

 

But I have never been screwed over by GoG, Blizzard, Epic, Ubi or Origin either. I like Epic just for the free games that are actually worth playing - unlike Origin giving away some "On the house" nonsense. Steam usually gives a game worth playing every 1 or 2 months.

 

The only way I think GoG is niche is in it's fanbase size, and tbf it's probably not growing. Steam, Blizzard and Epic are growing constantly but nobody really will ever stand a chance at taking Steam down and if it was anybody, it wouldn't be GoG, it would be Epic for actually getting 1 year excluvity on good games. So far that's actually hurt the devs and publishers though so...

[Zoraptor]

"Steam has alot of haters but they are very few and far between.."

 

Most Sonic start to a post ever.

 

 

 
I don't find it hard to believe that people aren't interested in "competition" to Steam by companies with just as bad a reputation as Valve. That doesn't make them "fanboys" in my eyes. In fact the idea of being a fan of a store or service seems rather...odd...to me, but humans are gonna human, I guess.
 
And yeah, Gog is "niche" in the sense that they don't have a long-standing reputation of screwing over their customers at very turn. Pretty good niche to be in, from where I stand.

 

 

All companies that try to compete with Valve will have a 'bad' reputation. Example: GOG probably has the best reputation overall at the moment, but in order to really compete with steam in the mainstream arena they'd have to cave on the DRM issue to attract the big titles. Once they do that their point of difference, their reputation and goodwill is gone; and they're in the position of having as bad a reputation as Valve has, probably worse since they would have 'lied' all that time about hating DRM. So they pick up 5-30% of steam's sales on almost entirely low volume titles and get some big titles 2-10 years after their release. Which is nice and is an alternative for some titles, but in terms of actual competition it's very insignificant.

 

Valve set the standards for competition in the PC gaming sphere by being sharp or shady, depending on your pov- doing things like trying to bundle steam with every game in existence. If you want to genuinely compete with them you can't do so with one hand tied behind your back because the market is way too distorted and steam has far too much ingrained leverage.

[SonicMage117]

"Steam has alot of haters but they are very few and far between.."

 

Most Sonic start to a post ever.

 

You must be really that clueless, or maybe you've never gone on Steam forums where trolls run there rampant proclaiming how bad Steam is.... yet they're on Steam forums and like I said, it's the same few over and over. It's no wonder they keep getting temporary bans and show up on the next big release Edited January 30, 2019 by SonicMage117

[Katphood]

There has never been a better time to be a PC gamer...

[injurai]

Seeing as the PC platform has nearly flawless BC, never mind the best emulation options, it's always the best time to be a PC gamer. It's also always super super cheap to jump in the game on a year or two old hardware compared to what its like to buy a console a few years into it's life cycle.

 

Even at the height of steams awful monopoly, it still managed to be more pro-consumer than any of the walled garden consoles.

[Katphood]

Seeing as the PC platform has nearly flawless BC,

There are quite a few dozen games that don't run properly on modern systems anymore unless you come up with some sort of patch or fix and even that doesn't always work perfectly.

 

Star Wars: Battlefront 2(the older one) and Kotor 1 are the ones I tried a while ago and both were unplayable. There are many more.

 

As for upgrades, I still play games on my PS3 as well as my Ps4. I bought the PS4 back in 2014.

 

To me, console gaming has always been more affordable and more accessible.

[injurai]

VMs are a thing. I wasn't aware Kotor 1 was so broken, but running a Windows XP vm isn't terribly hard.

[majestic]

VMs are a thing. I wasn't aware Kotor 1 was so broken, but running a Windows XP vm isn't terribly hard.

 

KOTOR's PC version was always pretty broken and the issues got worse over time. It's possible to get it running when installing from the original discs but it often requires the use of third party patches and even then usually ends in the player having to turn off the cutscenes and certain dialogues skipping right to the end.

 

In my experience the best bet to get a decent out of the box experience is to go with the GOG version.

[Zoraptor]

VMs are a thing. I wasn't aware Kotor 1 was so broken, but running a Windows XP vm isn't terribly hard.

 

IIRC the main problem is not with xp/ vista vs 7/10 per se but that the version of OpenGL the engine uses is not supported by any modern drivers and hasn't been for nearly a decade- and I've been told that it's non trivial getting it working on modern GPUs due to hardware changes as well, though I have no way to verify that.

 

I guess the fundamental problem is that steam is now selling games that require (or at least 'require') OS that they no longer actually support. K1's system requirements are for XP/ Vista, neither of which are supported any more by steam, and while it isn't that onerous a task for someone with some computing knowledge and confidence being able to set up a VM to play a game is not something most people would be comfortable with.

[majestic]

IIRC the main problem is not with xp/ vista vs 7/10 per se but that the version of OpenGL the engine uses is not supported by any modern drivers and hasn't been for nearly a decade- and I've been told that it's non trivial getting it working on modern GPUs due to hardware changes as well, though I have no way to verify that.

 

I just tried the GOG version on Windows 10 with a GTX 970. Worked without a hitch.

 

Saw Taris and quit though, so that's one issue that's not ever going away...

[Malcador]

I saw Carth and quit.

[Zoraptor]

 

IIRC the main problem is not with xp/ vista vs 7/10 per se but that the version of OpenGL the engine uses is not supported by any modern drivers and hasn't been for nearly a decade- and I've been told that it's non trivial getting it working on modern GPUs due to hardware changes as well, though I have no way to verify that.

 

I just tried the GOG version on Windows 10 with a GTX 970. Worked without a hitch.

 

Saw Taris and quit though, so that's one issue that's not ever going away...

 

 

Yeah GOG version is fine- that is after all their niche- and has the 'full' suite of OS supported; it's the steam version which can be tricky to get running and is XP/ Vista only.

 

Funny thing is that the less popular K2 actually did get patched on steam for modern OS and officially cannot be run on older than 7. Then again K2 was always easier to get running than K1.

[Gorgon]

It's STEAM's fault really, they are insisting on maintaining their monopoly pricing and driving developers away. So far EPIC store doesn't sound that consumer friendly. 

 

 

The fracturing is going to make the storefronts themselves less relevant I think. You will  be browsing your game purchases through third party price comparison sites that automatically keeps track of specials and sales, maybe you have all your games listed in a third party launcher. It's probably not impossible to write software that will log you into a platform and launch the game.

 

Another app to launch another app to finally launch your game. 

[majestic]

Funny thing is that the less popular K2 actually did get patched on steam for modern OS and officially cannot be run on older than 7. Then again K2 was always easier to get running than K1.

 

As far as I know that was a byproduct of Aspyr's Android port.

[Zoraptor]

Another app to launch another app to finally launch your game. 

 

That is basically what Windows already is on a gaming PC.

 

 

 

Funny thing is that the less popular K2 actually did get patched on steam for modern OS and officially cannot be run on older than 7. Then again K2 was always easier to get running than K1.

 

As far as I know that was a byproduct of Aspyr's Android port.

 

 

It's a bit weird though. Compare to, say, NWN1/2 and Beamdog. It would be the equivalent of Beamdog doing an android NWN1 port but leaving NWN1 PC alone; yet releasing a patch for NWN2 PC and doing nothing with it on android.

 

I presume there are Legal Reasons for how it's turned out but it's an odd situation. Especially since GOG has 'patched' K1 to get it running.

[Manveru123]

All companies that try to compete with Valve will have a 'bad' reputation. Example: GOG probably has the best reputation overall at the moment, but in order to really compete with steam in the mainstream arena they'd have to cave on the DRM issue to attract the big titles. Once they do that their point of difference, their reputation and goodwill is gone; and they're in the position of having as bad a reputation as Valve has, probably worse since they would have 'lied' all that time about hating DRM. So they pick up 5-30% of steam's sales on almost entirely low volume titles and get some big titles 2-10 years after their release. Which is nice and is an alternative for some titles, but in terms of actual competition it's very insignificant.

At least GOG tends to have standards. You can sell whatever crap you want to on Steam. Finding a good new game on Steam is like swimming in poo trying to find a pearl.

[SonicMage117]

I'd have to disagree. The ratio of "crap" titles on Steam isn't different from GoG, it's just more intimadating to users who prefer GoG's more streamlined catalog. There's nothing wrong with Steams catalog, even Greenlight has given us amazing titles but if you have an issue with it, you can filter them out via the settings tab in the Steam store.

 

 

Then again, wise men say "One man's garbage is another man's treasure" has always rang true in such an instance. There are some games on GoG which I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole but someone 10 years older than me might think is the greatest thing ever, simply because they had fond memories of the game. So many factors and variables come into play regardless of what others may say. That's probably why some games are called cult hits and also why we have games with niche audiences.

 

 

And for the record, everything that has tried so hard to damage Steam's market has only pressed it further. Look at Epic's exclusivity deals. Isn't it ironic that barely anyone will refuse to buy a game for having a "anti-consumer" drm such as Denuvo, but yet a year exclusivity deal with Epic will cause a multitude of backlash which actually manifests in cancellations of pre-orders and potential buyers. You'd think it would be the opposite judging by all the supposed anti-drm cultists floating around the net but seems more like they support Steam in the end rather than not anyway.

 

It's just a funny observation, nothing more but still it affects every one of us digital pc gamers just the same.

Edited January 31, 2019 by SonicMage117

[injurai]

Greenlight has a confirmation bias, because most worthy games that get greenlit would probably have been hand curated on the old system. There is plenty of drivel on Steam to the point I'd rather follow indie game releases through other forums and media outlets than browse a back log of tiny images to pluck out something interesting.

[Chilloutman]

Greenlight has a confirmation bias, because most worthy games that get greenlit would probably have been hand curated on the old system. There is plenty of drivel on Steam to the point I'd rather follow indie game releases through other forums and media outlets than browse a back log of tiny images to pluck out something interesting.

 

well its normal no? I mean i don't buy 99% of games presented on any store or gaming site as well.

[SonicMage117]

With good reason, Valve is just speaking on behalf of all non-Epic Games Stores customers. Even CDPR agrees (essentially saying the same thing months ago).

 

Hmmmm...

 

Nintendo executive for 12 years leaves to join Microsoft which plans to renovate 2nd and 3rd party games/content. Does this mean we'll see Xbox get good again? You know, before 360 and XB1 ruined things teehee

Edited January 31, 2019 by SonicMage117

[Agiel]

Suppose I was one of the "lucky" ones who had Metro: Exodus already pre-ordered on Steam. However, I'd like to think I wouldn't have hesitated to pick it up on the Epic store regardless since I adore the other games in the series. Having not played Fortnite I'm not exactly in a position to comment on Epic's service, but my experience with other digital distro platforms have largely ranged from "functional," such as Origin, to "actually fairly solid," such as Impulse back in the day and GOG, of which the latter is generally the best model in my mind (just an .exe to install, and no more fuss). About the sole exception to that however is GFWL, which was among the most incompetently-made products to have ever have graced a hard-drive.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Agiel

[Manveru123]

I'd have to disagree. The ratio of "crap" titles on Steam isn't different from GoG, it's just more intimadating to users who prefer GoG's more streamlined catalog. There's nothing wrong with Steams catalog, even Greenlight has given us amazing titles but if you have an issue with it, you can filter them out via the settings tab in the Steam store.

 

 

Then again, wise men say "One man's garbage is another man's treasure" has always rang true in such an instance. There are some games on GoG which I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole but someone 10 years older than me might think is the greatest thing ever, simply because they had fond memories of the game. So many factors and variables come into play regardless of what others may say. That's probably why some games are called cult hits and also why we have games with niche audiences.

 

 

And for the record, everything that has tried so hard to damage Steam's market has only pressed it further. Look at Epic's exclusivity deals. Isn't it ironic that barely anyone will refuse to buy a game for having a "anti-consumer" drm such as Denuvo, but yet a year exclusivity deal with Epic will cause a multitude of backlash which actually manifests in cancellations of pre-orders and potential buyers. You'd think it would be the opposite judging by all the supposed anti-drm cultists floating around the net but seems more like they support Steam in the end rather than not anyway.

 

It's just a funny observation, nothing more but still it affects every one of us digital pc gamers just the same.

Eh the fact is, there's a ton of games being released on Steam weekly, and most of them are really bad. And this is because it's currently VERY easy to release a Steam game - they barely even check it, and even if it doesn't conform to Steam guidelines, they will often just say "you should fix it, but it's ok if you don't want to". I've released a few games over the last 6 months and honestly this kinda shocks me how Steam goes for quanity over quality.

 

People hating Epic are the same ones who a week earlier were screaming how terrible Steam is. Throwing silly tantrums is what that community does best. Funny thing is, after they're done crying, they will buy the game anyway, even if they have to download a different store client for that. Actually, it's currently really difficult to get your game on Epic store because they have high quality standards, but the stupid mob doesn't seem to realize that yet.