Fallout 4 and 76: Cautionary Tales

[Michael_Galt]

So, I am going to preface all of this with the statement that I have enjoyed nearly every game that Obsidian has made.  My two favorite Obsidian games are KOTOR 2 and F:NV.  Yes, I know that those were sequels. 

 

I was one of the original backers for POE, but honestly didn't really enjoy it.  I felt that it was NOT a spiritual successor to BG.  That being said, I enjoyed it much more after the DLC and expansions, though I still don't put it in my top 10.  For a variety of reasons, I did NOT back Deadfire... because I didn't really enjoy POE that much and wasn't sure exactly what Deadfire was going to look like.  As more information about Deadfire came out, I got more excited, because it sounded like it was going to be much more of a spiritual successor to BG than POE had been.  I bought Deadfire as soon as it was out (or maybe preordered it, I can't remember), and have played it through 2 times since then.  I'm waiting for all the DLC to come out before embarking on my 3rd and probably final playthrough. 

 

If I were to give some % scores to all the Obsidian games that I have played, it would look like this:

1.) F:NV = 93%

2.) KOTOR 2 = 91%

3.) POE: Deadfire = 90%

4.) NWN 2 = 88%

5.) POE 1 = 83%

 

Yes, those are completely BS scores, but I think that for myself, they are pretty accurate.  I love F:NV and have put hundreds of hours into the game, and feel like it has so many playthrough options, it is ridiculous.  KOTOR 2 got me into the Star Wars universe... and besides Arcanum 2, KOTOR 3 is the other sequel that I dream of (I have given up on another epic D&D game, and there are plenty of good "traditional" fantasy games).  POE: Deadfire is a game that I would give a higher score... if I were to actually like any of the companions more than a little bit.  NWN 2 kinda falls into that same category- I absolutely HATED the companions, and the fact that you were basically stuck with them, and so while I enjoyed the REST of the game... just can't give it an "A" rating.  And POE?  I recognize that it was a totally new and original IP, and give it credit for trying to do something new, I just don't like "grimdark".  I also didn't really like any of the NPCs very much, which severely decreases the replay and enjoyment value for me.

 

So, this was a ton of writing.  HERE is the point.  I like/love Obsidian games.  I think that F:NV is the best Fallout game (after the Bethesda purchase of the IP) and that KOTOR 2 is the best Star Wars game.  I think that NWN 2 is the 2nd best D&D game (counting BG as an entire series, the way that it is meant to be played).  I loved Morrowind, I sort of enjoyed Skyrim, and I have hated everything else that Bethesda has made.  I loved Mass Effect and really enjoyed the majority of Bioware games... until the newest Mass Effect and Anthem. 

 

Basically, I HAD 3 favorite cRPG companies: Bioware, Obsidian, and Bethesda.  Now, it is Obsidian, inXile, HareBrained Studios and looks like it will be CD Projekt Red. That SOUNDS like a good thing, right?  MORE options?  Except, inXile AND Obsidian have been bought out by Microsoft, and so now I can only HOPE that Obsidian and inXile do not become failed "big studios" like... Bethesda and Bioware. 

 

If that happens, then I will basically be left with HareBrained Studios and CD Projekt Red...  While I love the Shadowrun games and greatly enjoyed Battletech... I have no idea what Harebrained is doing next, and it might not be an RPG.  Heck, they might go out of business or get bought out as well.  And while I am incredibly pumped for Cyberpunk 2077... that might not even happen until the end of next year, or even 2020.  While I think that game might very well become my #2 game... only time will tell.  What that also means, is that even if it IS an awesome game... it might take them another 2-3 years to make a new game, and I might not even like that game.

 

So, please don't become Bethesda or Bioware, oh Obsidian.  If that happens, that might very well be the death of quality cRPGs with great and interesting stories.  As far as I am aware, the only cRPGs (that I would qualify as such, and I admit that I am a purist) coming out any time soon are Wasteland 3 and Cyberpunk 2077.  That is 2019 and maybe 2020.  I have heard of no other games being planned by any of the studios that I mentioned, including Obsidian. 

 

*I edited the poll to remove the word "most" from "most favorite".  That is redundant and perhaps confusing for your 2nd and 3rd favorite games.*

Edited November 23, 2018 by Michael_Galt

[SonicMage117]

So, please don't become Bethesda or Bioware, oh Obsidian. If that happens, that might very well be the death of quality cRPGs with great and interesting stories. As far as I am aware, the only cRPGs (that I would qualify as such, and I admit that I am a purist) coming out any time soon are Wasteland 3 and Cyberpunk 2077. That is 2019 and maybe 2020. I have heard of no other games being planned by any of the studios that I mentioned, including Obsidian.

Look here, I know you were just trolling but Cyberpunk 2077 isn't by any definition a "Crpg". It's an first person action rpg. You need to look up exactly how CDPR describes it.

 

Either way, 20-30 big name Crpg's came out this year alone on Steam. They're there but you just gotta open your eyes and look. Even if Obsidian stopped making Crpg's this wouldn't jeopardize the genre in any way.

 

 

Also,

There is no reason to stir up more negative drama by posting such bs paranoia.

 

 

 

"Please don't become the next Bioware"

 

FAKE NEWS

 

Bioware is a completely different company, EA who bought them are a completely different company. They are structured very differently. There is no need for your petty concern/paranoia. Why compare these companies ahd their relationship with somwthing totally different. Irrelevant and assuming.

 

"Do not let your heart be troubled by things that do not exist" -Imoen

 

 

 

 

BTW Kotor and Pillars 1 are my favs. They are the reason I backed Deadfire, have been a Crpg fan "all my life" (in young Anakin's voice) but what is the real purpose of this thread? Seems like you're trying too hard to prove something to Obsidian though it doesn't matter, Microsoft is at the helm now.

Edited November 23, 2018 by SonicMage117

[Michael_Galt]

https://www.cyberpunk.net/

"Enter the world of Cyberpunk 2077 — a story-driven, open world RPG"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk_2077

"Cyberpunk 2077 is an upcoming role-playing video game developed and published by CD Projekt, releasing for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 4, and Xbox One."

 

I might be bad at reading, but I THINK that those posts say that Cyberpunk 2077 is going to be a COMPUTER RPG... or, cRPG.  But, you know, English is only my 1st language.  Since they are a Polish studio, maybe something got mistranslated.  Based off what I have read and seen, Cyberpunk 2077 will be very much like F:NV... except not post-apocalyptic.  And, last I checked, F:NV is considered a cRPG as well. 

 

Is calling someone petty and paranoid abusive?  Is that good community conduct?  I'm just curious. 

 

Really looking forward to seeing how this poll turns out!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

New Vegas will remain the best game of all time until someone manages to come up with something better than fighting an army larping as romans alongside a gang of Elvis impersonators after you beat post-apoc Elon Musk to death with golf club and the help of a smiling robot. If Obsidian were to fall to the dialectic then at least they would have provided us with such entertainment.

 

I don't know if Microsoft buying Obsidian will mean everything goes to **** or if it results in something like the recent spat of (relatively) low budget films released like Sorry to Bother You or The Shape of Water that keep the indie feel. Similarly to how movies are hollowing out the "midbudget" films(20 mil to 100 mil) to give us smaller budget works and the cape**** tentpoles, we could see a lot more lower budget niche games pop up if companies come to the conclusion it's a better investment than risking more on a AAA entry. Given that Obsidian already have some measure of success with PoE, I would be surprised if we did not see at least one more game in the series similar to the first two.

[213374U]

I have no idea what Harebrained is doing next, and it might not be an RPG.  Heck, they might go out of business or get bought out as well. 

 

Um. Yeah, about that...

[Michael_Galt]

 

I have no idea what Harebrained is doing next, and it might not be an RPG.  Heck, they might go out of business or get bought out as well. 

 

Um. Yeah, about that...

 

 

I had seen that they got bought by Paradox, but it sounds like it was genuinely an acquisition that was going to leave Harebrained with all the creative freedom, just that Paradox was going to work the marketing and obviously try to do the "business-side" of things.  As far as I am aware... there still has been no word on what Harebrained will work on next.

 

I forgot that Paradox is making the Werewolf game... which I can only HOPE will be good, because the Werewolf Rage setting was really interesting.  I think that would be right up Harebrained's alley, given that Shadowrun is set in a sort of similar universe.  Rage is also a contemporary setting, with magic, less tech, darker.  The company who Paradox originally announced as working on it... did NOT have good credentials... so I can only HOPE that they decided to bring Harebrained in to try to augment that studio and make a genuinely good game...

 

 

 

Separately, it is interesting to see the breakdown of the votes thus far (though admittedly a small sample size).  Seems like for people's FAVORITE Obsidian game, the older games (F:NV, KOTOR 2, and NWN 2, in that order) definitely beat out Obsidian's newer games.  But, when you get to 2nd and 3rd favorite games, their newer games start to "take over". 

 

I'm not going to lie, I would love a steampunk/1950s POE game.  I know that the current "historical" setting is probably right before the industrial revolution, so it would be great to see Eora at the height of the Industrial Revolution, or around the 20s and 30s, when you had all the socialism, communism and fascism conflicts starting to brew.  Man, WW2 in Eora would be great.  I mean, set it IN a major war.  Not before, not after, like is typically done.  Put the protagonist in the "neutral" state, the equivalent of Switzerland, and then let them chose which side they would support.  This game kinda hinted at all those cultures being on a collision path... let's start in the middle of the trainwreck!

 

In fact, this could work perfectly.  It explains why your character starts out low-level.  They are just a farmer, or child of a merchant or something like that.  The war starts to kick off, and they want adventure/to defend liberty and freedom/support the religious/political movement of one side or the other.  They start fighting their way up the ranks against other "low level" troops.  They get hirer levels and then are put into a special unit which hunts the other special units and fights the most dangerous weapons/animals/monsters that the other side has.  Then, as they become genuinely high level, they become commanders and generals.  They handpick their companions (or they follow them through the whole game, probably better) and they begin the assault against the final enemy strongholds.  This ISN'T a strategy game, this is just the context given for their missions.  Capturing/killing deserters, bandits, and marauding monsters is the basis of "sub-quests".  You can even add things like bringing food to friendly villages/cities, or poisoning the food/water supplies of the enemy as other side quests.  How do you justify "special weapons/gear/equipment"?  Captured from enemy R&D.  Rewarded by friendly government for saving a certain region, defeating a key enemy commander/asset, etc.  And then you could leave a late-game opportunity to double-cross that government because one of the enemy governments offers you something really compelling, or shows you information that completely changes your opinion of who you have been fighting for...

Edited November 24, 2018 by Michael_Galt

[HoonDing]

I rember Dungeon Siege 3 fondly for the b00bies.

 

There'll never be another Obsidian game with b00bies.

[213374U]

I forgot that Paradox is making the Werewolf game... which I can only HOPE will be good, because the Werewolf Rage setting was really interesting.  I think that would be right up Harebrained's alley, given that Shadowrun is set in a sort of similar universe.  Rage is also a contemporary setting, with magic, less tech, darker.  The company who Paradox originally announced as working on it... did NOT have good credentials... so I can only HOPE that they decided to bring Harebrained in to try to augment that studio and make a genuinely good game...

Paradox isn't making Werewolf. They aren't even publishing it. The developer is Cyanide and the publisher is Focus Home Interactive. Of late, I remain unimpressed by either. Deathwing was a broken mess and the publisher's stubborn radio silence during the whole thing was just appalling. Styx bored me to tears. And the new Cthulhu game is not very good, from what I've read. FHI seems to have completely abandoned Battlefleet Gothic in favor of just pumping out a sequel, and the game's fans weren't happy at all. Pump 'n' dump seems to be their motto.

 

A Harebrained WoD game looks good on paper, but they probably just don't have the resources to make something on the scale of Bloodlines, especially if they are going to keep supporting BATTLETECH. I'd settle for something the size of Dragonfall, with turn-based combat, but I reckon I'm in the minority and that's the kind of thing companies don't do because it devalues IP or whatever.

[Michael_Galt]

 

I forgot that Paradox is making the Werewolf game... which I can only HOPE will be good, because the Werewolf Rage setting was really interesting.  I think that would be right up Harebrained's alley, given that Shadowrun is set in a sort of similar universe.  Rage is also a contemporary setting, with magic, less tech, darker.  The company who Paradox originally announced as working on it... did NOT have good credentials... so I can only HOPE that they decided to bring Harebrained in to try to augment that studio and make a genuinely good game...

Paradox isn't making Werewolf. They aren't even publishing it. The developer is Cyanide and the publisher is Focus Home Interactive. Of late, I remain unimpressed by either. Deathwing was a broken mess and the publisher's stubborn radio silence during the whole thing was just appalling. Styx bored me to tears. And the new Cthulhu game is not very good, from what I've read. FHI seems to have completely abandoned Battlefleet Gothic in favor of just pumping out a sequel, and the game's fans weren't happy at all. Pump 'n' dump seems to be their motto.

 

A Harebrained WoD game looks good on paper, but they probably just don't have the resources to make something on the scale of Bloodlines, especially if they are going to keep supporting BATTLETECH. I'd settle for something the size of Dragonfall, with turn-based combat, but I reckon I'm in the minority and that's the kind of thing companies don't do because it devalues IP or whatever.

 

 

Straight from the Wikipedia article on Paradox:

 

"Paradox Interactive purchased White Wolf Publishing's assets, including World of Darkness and Vampire: The Masquerade, from CCP Games in October 2015.^[11] White Wolf became a self-operating subsidiary of Paradox Interactive with its own management and goals.^[12]

 

In January 2017, White Wolf announced its partnership with video game publisher Focus Home Interactive for the video game adaptation of Werewolf: The Apocalypse, a tabletop role-playing game set in the World of Darkness. The game will be developed by the game development studio Cyanide and released on PC and consoles. ^[13][14]"

 

I'm not saying that I am optimistic either... because the complete lack of news indicates that there isn't anything worth sharing, and neither Cyanide nor Focus Home Interactive have done anything that even remotely interests me... or even gotten good reviews.  I personally would LOVE that WoD game... but I think the scenario that you laid out is the ONLY way that it could actually work.  Then again... Harebrained DID show that they are capable of doing 3D games with Battletech (which isn't something that I would normally be interested in, but bought just to support the studio and DID enjoy enough to playthrough almost 2 times).  So... it might open up other possibilities.  They could even potentially go a Larian path, where it is still turn-based, just a different form of it. 

 

All this really just means that I truly have no idea what Harebrained is going to be doing next, and there is a really good chance that I won't be interested. 

 

I mean, a similar case in point was inXile.  I really enjoyed Torment: Tides of Numenera as well as WL3: Director's Cut... but have zero interest in Bard's Tale 4.  Looking forward to WL3... but have no idea what they are going to do after that.

 

Perfect world?  Joint venture between inXile and Obsidian to make some ULTRA RPG to compete with CD Projekt Red, who looks ready to blow people out of the water with Cyberpunk 2077.  The likelihood of these 2 studios doing a joint project?  Probably very low.  But... since they WERE both acquired by Microsoft... maybe it is possible?

[Hurlshort]

If WoD came out anything like the Shadowrun games, I would be jazzed.

[Michael_Galt]

What's really interesting to me, is that even with the still small sample size, 2/3s of people said that it was one of the Obsidian sequel games that was their favorite Obsidian game.  And thus far, despite seeing lots of people who are really vocal about how Deadfire is inferior to/worse than POE 1... it clearly LOOKS like most people preferred Deadfire over POE 1 (equal number chose either for their favorite Obsidian game, but 3x as many people have chosen Deadfire over POE for their 2nd or 3rd favorite Obsidian game). 

Edited November 24, 2018 by Michael_Galt

[Hurlshort]

Although to be fair, most people who liked PoE1 but disliked Deadfire probably don't spend much time on the forum anymore. Whereas you still have a pretty active Deadfire community, since it is the most recent release.

[Zoraptor]

OTOH, it's likely that a lot of people who disliked PoE never even tried Deadfire which would depress its numbers, though not relative to the original. To be honest I've barely seen anyone saying that PoE is superior to Deadfire except those who didn't like the change in style (pirates/ world map etc) or starting from level 1 again.

 

I'm not going to vote personally as my answers would change week to week. K2, FONV, AP and MoTB would be difficult to choose between, and Deadfire would be very close as well despite some annoyances like hitting the level cap with a quarter of the game to go.

 

I rember Dungeon Siege 3 fondly for the b00bies.

 

There'll never be another Obsidian game with b00bies.

 

Obsidian's last game had b00bies. Indeed, it had rather more than just b00bies.

[Achilles]

But... since they WERE both acquired by Microsoft... maybe it is possible?

I keep hearing this. Are Naughty Dog and Guerilla teaming up on games because they are both owned by Sony?

[Flouride]

If WoD came out anything like the Shadowrun games, I would be jazzed.

 

If only Paradox had the funds and a studio to create something like that.

[Michael_Galt]

 

But... since they WERE both acquired by Microsoft... maybe it is possible?

I keep hearing this. Are Naughty Dog and Guerilla teaming up on games because they are both owned by Sony?

 

 

Hence... the question...  Answering a question with a question is not an answer.  That is you trying to say that based off a single anecdote, that universally it shows that it is NOT possible.  I'm asking, do studios ever actually do joint ventures, when they are parts of a larger corporation?  My bet is YES... because if you don't have 1 studio that is big enough in  isolation to do a large project, but you have 2 studios, that if they COMBINED their resources, COULD do that project... then you would.  As an example in a completely different but related industry... Apple phones feature SAMSUNG chips.  Manufacturing is very different from making creative entertainment, but it shows that even huge rivals can work together to accomplish the same goal- sales. 

 

I am not even asking if it is probable.  I am asking if anyone knows of any examples in which 2 different video game studios worked together on a single game. 

 

Whatever the reasons, out of all the votes cast so far [80], 14% picked as POE as one of their favorite Obsidian games versus 19% who picked Deadfire.  Admittedly, the gap has closed quite a lot, but it still looks like there is a preference for Deadfire versus the original (which, logically speaking, is what you would hope to happen with a sequel, since that means that it SHOULD have been improved from the 1st). 

 

Also, again out of the total of 80 votes across all 3 options, nearly 50% of people picked one of the Obsidian sequels to other IP as one of their favorites.  I guess that is actually good news/bad news for Obsidian?  Only 50% of people prefer Obsidian IP to other IP, even if they love Obsidian games?  That's what the results of the #1 favorite game seem to indicate- ~60% of people have their favorite game from Obsidian being a game that was NOT Obsidian IP.  Then again... Obsidian IP games only account for 40% of the total games that they have worked on up until this point, so I guess it means that it is about what you would expect, proportionately. 

 

The only information which seems solidly negative is that only 2 out of 26 people picked either Tyranny or Alpha Protocol as their FAVORITE Obsidian game... though they did seem to put far fewer resources into both making and marketing those games.

[Hurlshort]

AP is doing pretty well as a second and third choice though, which would fit its reputation as a bit of an unpolished gem.

 

Really it's just Fallout and Star Wars eating up a lot of votes, which would make sense because they are very popular properties. I'd say it is less about sequels or other people's IP's, since Dungeon Siege, South Park, and even NWN2 aren't doing much in the way of votes.

 

You could also probably lump together all of the PoE (1&2) to show that their own IP has done very well in the poll. 

[Achilles]

 

 

But... since they WERE both acquired by Microsoft... maybe it is possible?

I keep hearing this. Are Naughty Dog and Guerilla teaming up on games because they are both owned by Sony?

 

 

Hence... the question...  Answering a question with a question is not an answer.  That is you trying to say that based off a single anecdote, that universally it shows that it is NOT possible.  I'm asking, do studios ever actually do joint ventures, when they are parts of a larger corporation?  My bet is YES... because if you don't have 1 studio that is big enough in  isolation to do a large project, but you have 2 studios, that if they COMBINED their resources, COULD do that project... then you would.  As an example in a completely different but related industry... Apple phones feature SAMSUNG chips.  Manufacturing is very different from making creative entertainment, but it shows that even huge rivals can work together to accomplish the same goal- sales. 

 

I am not even asking if it is probable.  I am asking if anyone knows of any examples in which 2 different video game studios worked together on a single game. 

Answering the question with a question is the answer. Parent companies don't force daughter companies to co-produce (and I'm not just thinking video game companies here). Anyone who took a second to think about this would acknowledge this fact. Hence why I can't wrap my head around the question that *lots of people* (not just you) are asking.

 

FWIW, it's been my experience that congomerates not only *don't* result in weird mash-ups, but actually create *rivalries*.

[Michael_Galt]

AP is doing pretty well as a second and third choice though, which would fit its reputation as a bit of an unpolished gem.

 

Really it's just Fallout and Star Wars eating up a lot of votes, which would make sense because they are very popular properties. I'd say it is less about sequels or other people's IP's, since Dungeon Siege, South Park, and even NWN2 aren't doing much in the way of votes.

 

You could also probably lump together all of the PoE (1&2) to show that their own IP has done very well in the poll. 

 

That is a good point.  When looked at cumulatively, POE 1 + Deadfire doesn't do poorly at all.  As a case in point, I wasn't really a fan of POE, but I DO like Deadfire (it was my number 3.  After POE, wasn't sure if I was going to buy Deadfire.  Conversely, after Deadfire, I will LIKELY buy the next in the Eora saga, if they continue with it.

 

 

 

 

But... since they WERE both acquired by Microsoft... maybe it is possible?

I keep hearing this. Are Naughty Dog and Guerilla teaming up on games because they are both owned by Sony?

 

 

Hence... the question...  Answering a question with a question is not an answer.  That is you trying to say that based off a single anecdote, that universally it shows that it is NOT possible.  I'm asking, do studios ever actually do joint ventures, when they are parts of a larger corporation?  My bet is YES... because if you don't have 1 studio that is big enough in  isolation to do a large project, but you have 2 studios, that if they COMBINED their resources, COULD do that project... then you would.  As an example in a completely different but related industry... Apple phones feature SAMSUNG chips.  Manufacturing is very different from making creative entertainment, but it shows that even huge rivals can work together to accomplish the same goal- sales. 

 

I am not even asking if it is probable.  I am asking if anyone knows of any examples in which 2 different video game studios worked together on a single game. 

Answering the question with a question is the answer. Parent companies don't force daughter companies to co-produce (and I'm not just thinking video game companies here). Anyone who took a second to think about this would acknowledge this fact. Hence why I can't wrap my head around the question that *lots of people* (not just you) are asking.

 

FWIW, it's been my experience that congomerates not only *don't* result in weird mash-ups, but actually create *rivalries*.

 

 

Except, it isn't.  Let me give you an example.

 

I ask, "Can 2 men have sex?".  You answer, "Have you ever seen 2 men having sex?  I live in Butte, Montana, and I have never seen it."  If you lived in San Francisco or West Hollywood, you would probably answer, "Hahaha!  Is it POSSIBLE?  What rock do you live under?!?"

 

Sure, YOU haven't seen it, in YOUR experiences, but that does NOT mean it isn't possible.  Using a single anecdote is not evidence which represents the whole.  I think it is UNLIKELY, but I FEEL like I have read about various studios working together on a single project in the past.  I might be mistaken.  I could see why 2 studios would not WANT to work together... but I could also imagine the following scenario.

 

Microsoft owns an awesome IP.  Microsoft owns lots of stuff, so this is LIKELY.  Microsoft wants a HUGE game based on this IP.  Microsoft goes to BOTH Obsidian and inXile with it and says, "I want this to be your next project.  You haven't declared any follow on projects yet.  I will pay you both lots of money to develop this IP for me.  I will split the earnings 50/50 between you.  Obsidian takes lead on story-writing.  inXile takes lead on level design.  You divvy up the rest of the tasks as you see fit.  Deal?"

 

This sounds reasonable to me, and if I was either studio, it might even be appealing.  If both love the IP, and they aren't going to make 2 different games with 2 different studios, why not make 1 game with 2 studios? 

 

And I am fine with them continuing to operate completely independently, but size DOES matter.  Having 2x as many writers, 2x as many animators, 2x as many artists... opens up potential projects that would otherwise be impossible.  Comparisons?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_Projekt

800 employees

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioWare

800

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethesda_Game_Studios

400

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsidian_Entertainment

170

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InXile_Entertainment

70

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larian_Studios

130

 

When you compare those different RPG oriented studios, it becomes obvious what the benefits of size are.  Even with the combined resources of Obsidian and inXile, they do not "equal" Bethesda or CD Projekt Red.  That is FINE, unless you want to release a game which will directly compete with the games of those studios. 

 

These are arguments based on numbers, facts and logic, not just blanket statements of opinion.  If, factually, 2 studios NEVER work together on 1 project... fine.  That is what I want to know.  Has it happened?  Or has it not happened?  If it HAS happened, when?  What was the result?

[Dryden]

I can think of some games were singleplayer was made by 1 studio and then multiplayer by another. Or a different studio coming in and working on a port. I want to recall some documentaries where different studios have exchanged a bit of expertise, too. But 1 game co-developed by 2 different studios? Dont think I've ever heard of that. Considering Obsidians and inXiles respective size and strengths, I guess its not impossible? Seems very unlikely though, imo

[Achilles]

 

AP is doing pretty well as a second and third choice though, which would fit its reputation as a bit of an unpolished gem.

 

Really it's just Fallout and Star Wars eating up a lot of votes, which would make sense because they are very popular properties. I'd say it is less about sequels or other people's IP's, since Dungeon Siege, South Park, and even NWN2 aren't doing much in the way of votes.

 

You could also probably lump together all of the PoE (1&2) to show that their own IP has done very well in the poll.

That is a good point. When looked at cumulatively, POE 1 + Deadfire doesn't do poorly at all. As a case in point, I wasn't really a fan of POE, but I DO like Deadfire (it was my number 3. After POE, wasn't sure if I was going to buy Deadfire. Conversely, after Deadfire, I will LIKELY buy the next in the Eora saga, if they continue with it.

 

 

 

But... since they WERE both acquired by Microsoft... maybe it is possible?

I keep hearing this. Are Naughty Dog and Guerilla teaming up on games because they are both owned by Sony?

Hence... the question... Answering a question with a question is not an answer. That is you trying to say that based off a single anecdote, that universally it shows that it is NOT possible. I'm asking, do studios ever actually do joint ventures, when they are parts of a larger corporation? My bet is YES... because if you don't have 1 studio that is big enough in isolation to do a large project, but you have 2 studios, that if they COMBINED their resources, COULD do that project... then you would. As an example in a completely different but related industry... Apple phones feature SAMSUNG chips. Manufacturing is very different from making creative entertainment, but it shows that even huge rivals can work together to accomplish the same goal- sales.

 

I am not even asking if it is probable. I am asking if anyone knows of any examples in which 2 different video game studios worked together on a single game.

Answering the question with a question is the answer. Parent companies don't force daughter companies to co-produce (and I'm not just thinking video game companies here). Anyone who took a second to think about this would acknowledge this fact. Hence why I can't wrap my head around the question that *lots of people* (not just you) are asking.

 

FWIW, it's been my experience that congomerates not only *don't* result in weird mash-ups, but actually create *rivalries*.

Except, it isn't. Let me give you an example.

 

I ask, "Can 2 men have sex?". You answer, "Have you ever seen 2 men having sex? I live in Butte, Montana, and I have never seen it." If you lived in San Francisco or West Hollywood, you would probably answer, "Hahaha! Is it POSSIBLE? What rock do you live under?!?"

 

Sure, YOU haven't seen it, in YOUR experiences, but that does NOT mean it isn't possible. Using a single anecdote is not evidence which represents the whole. I think it is UNLIKELY, but I FEEL like I have read about various studios working together on a single project in the past. I might be mistaken. I could see why 2 studios would not WANT to work together... but I could also imagine the following scenario.

 

Microsoft owns an awesome IP. Microsoft owns lots of stuff, so this is LIKELY. Microsoft wants a HUGE game based on this IP. Microsoft goes to BOTH Obsidian and inXile with it and says, "I want this to be your next project. You haven't declared any follow on projects yet. I will pay you both lots of money to develop this IP for me. I will split the earnings 50/50 between you. Obsidian takes lead on story-writing. inXile takes lead on level design. You divvy up the rest of the tasks as you see fit. Deal?"

 

This sounds reasonable to me, and if I was either studio, it might even be appealing. If both love the IP, and they aren't going to make 2 different games with 2 different studios, why not make 1 game with 2 studios?

 

And I am fine with them continuing to operate completely independently, but size DOES matter. Having 2x as many writers, 2x as many animators, 2x as many artists... opens up potential projects that would otherwise be impossible. Comparisons?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_Projekt

800 employees

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioWare

800

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethesda_Game_Studios

400

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsidian_Entertainment

170

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InXile_Entertainment

70

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larian_Studios

130

 

When you compare those different RPG oriented studios, it becomes obvious what the benefits of size are. Even with the combined resources of Obsidian and inXile, they do not "equal" Bethesda or CD Projekt Red. That is FINE, unless you want to release a game which will directly compete with the games of those studios.

 

These are arguments based on numbers, facts and logic, not just blanket statements of opinion. If, factually, 2 studios NEVER work together on 1 project... fine. That is what I want to know. Has it happened? Or has it not happened? If it HAS happened, when? What was the result?

lol

 

You’re missing the point, bro. The fact that this doesn’t happen makes the question of whether or not it will happen here fairly ridiculous. But you do you.

[SonicMage117]

I ask, "Can 2 men have sex?". You answer, "Have you ever seen 2 men having sex? I live in Butte, Montana, and I have never seen it." If you lived in San Francisco or West Hollywood, you would probably answer, "Hahaha! Is it POSSIBLE? What rock do you live under?!?"

Yes. Same sex can have sex. Have you heard of gay couples, gay marriages, gay relationships? You may wany to ask that question to the LGBT community but I doubt you will because you know that you will be embaressed. I am not going to tell you how 2 men or women have sex but use your imagination and you may get a glimpse of the reality. Point being that yes, they do, it's just a little different (not to quote Jeanette from VTMR: Bloodlines hehe).

 

Not only that, but you didn't quite choose a great comparison. A better comparison would have been to ask "Have you seen 2 artists collaborate on a song. tattoo, painting? Have you seen two writers write a book or 2 directors direct a movie? And again, yes, the answer to all of these is yes.

 

When you compare those different RPG oriented studios, it becomes obvious what the benefits of size are. Even with the combined resources of Obsidian and inXile, they do not "equal" Bethesda or CD Projekt Red. That is FINE, unless you want to release a game which will directly compete with the games of those studios.

 

These are arguments based on numbers, facts and logic, not just blanket statements of opinion. If, factually, 2 studios NEVER work together on 1 project... fine. That is what I want to know. Has it happened? Or has it not happened? If it HAS happened, when? What was the result?

Where are the facts, logic and numbers? Lol I'd like to see the evidence that a small focused company with mass resources/funding cannot benefit anymore or less than a larger based team?

 

I can tell you this, it's not to imagine 2 development teams such as InExile and Obsidian working together. You probably didn't know this but Obsidian was split up into 4-5 teams, 1 team for each different project. So why are you so paranoid of Microsoft having Obsidian and InExile joining forces to develop a hot-budget AAA title? Have developers/publishers colaborated in the games industry? YES. Maybe you should do the research into that though, because giving you evidence will only get some denial from you and even more paranoia, I'm sure.

 

And of course Obsidian and Inexile will get some new talent, no doubt they will need approval from MS first. They'll also get mass additions to resources by Microsoft and most likely won't use Unity engine anymore. Are you really gullible to think that Microsoft's support, funding/resources won't allow them to benefit greater than a 800 independent member team? Yeah, real smart.

Edited November 26, 2018 by SonicMage117

[bugarup]

Clickbait title, there is nothing about F4 or 76 in the thread. 

[IndiraLightfoot]

Yeah! It should read: "Which are your favourite Obsidian games?"

[Michael_Galt]

Clickbait title, there is nothing about F4 or 76 in the thread. 

 

I did "lose the narrative" when I started writing.  The point that I didn't make in the original post is that both Fallout 4 and Fallout 76 received bad reviews.  Fallout 4 got bad, but not TERRIBLE reviews... but people are clearly not happy with it.  Fallout 76 is widely considered to be a piece of trash.  The last GOOD game was F:NV... which was done by Obsidian. 

 

Mass Effect 1-3 got solid to incredibly positive reviews.  The last Mass Effect game was trash.  Anthem is not an RPG.

 

So... Bethesda, a major videogame studio that specialized in and was founded in the RPG genre...  now appears to have abandoned it, and has produced 2 games which are not good.  Bioware, which used to be a gold-standard in RPG gaming... no longer makes RPGs either, OR good games. 

 

Hence, the post.  2 companies which historically did a very good job with RPGs... no longer make them, for all intents and purposes.  Both have tried to do new types of games... and have largely failed.  I HOPE that this is not what happens to Obsidian.  If Obsidian follows this path...  Then there will be very few studios left which are dedicated to cRPGs AND do them well. 

 

Additionally, my personal suspicions have so far been largely confirmed, where more people prefer the games that Obsidian did which were sequels to other IPs.  20 out of 34 (~60%) people have picked those games as their #1 favorite Obsidian titles.  That might be proportionate to the total number of games that Obsidian has created, but it is still a significant majority. 

 

Surprisingly, my choices for #1, #2, and #3 favorite Obsidian games... are VERY close to the overall results of the poll, thus far.  I picked F:NV for #1, KOTOR 2 for #2, and Deadfire for #3.  This certainly doesn't mean that my views are representative of all the people on this forum, but at least so far, it looks like we have similar tastes and preferences, at least insofar as Obsidian games go. 

 

So, sorry I forgot to write explicitly about the new "Fallout" games.  I thought it was implied that I did not approve of them, or have any interest in them.  You Google "Fallout 76" right now and can find that No Mutants Allowed is now not the only one talking trash about Bethesda, it is the entire internet.  Hell, even the gaming magazines gave it awful reviews... which means that you KNOW it is terrible.  People are talking about how Bethesda might die on its Fallout 4 and 76 swords.  I think that is premature and silly... but everyone does seem to be in agreement that if Bioware's Anthem fails to sell well... Bioware might go bankrupt. 

 

Let that sink in.  2 companies which have been famous for making RPGs, and have historically made great ones, might be on the verge of going bankrupt.  Bioware, who used to be the absolute best videogame studio for RPGs... doesn't make them anymore and might go out of business.  Between the two of them, that represents 1,200 employees... that is nearly TEN times as many employees than are at Obsidian.  If Bethesda and Bioware go... who does that leave?  Harebrained was bought out.  Obsidian and inXile have both been bought out by Microsoft.  I personally think that this is a good thing... but it might not be.  Owner holds power.  Owner decides what gets greenlit and what doesn't.  Owner decides how much money to spend on promotion and sets timelines. 

 

At this point, the only 2 studios with good track records that appear to be financially sound... are CD Projekt Red and Larian.  That is it.