The Political Thread - Burlamaqui edition

[Chilloutman]

 

I am sure I don't have to define to you what Marxism is, you can read their manifesto if you didn't but its beside the point. Some of us still remember how real marxism looks like in reality.

 

You misspelled "state capitalism".

 

 

where?

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

I am sure I don't have to define to you what Marxism is, you can read their manifesto if you didn't but its beside the point. Some of us still remember how real marxism looks like in reality.

 

but back to EU to give you some, lets say economical example:

 

https://www.euractiv.com/section/road-safety/news/controversial-eu-labour-rules-tackle-truck-drivers-pay-and-working-conditions/

 

and:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-budget-agriculture/eu-proposes-to-cut-farm-subsidies-france-says-unacceptable-idUSKBN1I31WW

 

edit, incorect link

 

Protectionism is great capitalist method when USA does it, but when rich EU countries do it is Marxism    

 

 

well it would be ok if EU country does not do it against other EU members, got it?

 

 

Anti-EUism is good thing until it hits home 

 

 

no idea where you are heading with this? I am pro free trade inside EU as it was originally supposed to be, but some power players just decide that they will instead of customs as it used to be previously pushed subsidities everyone in EU have to pay now.

 

so instead of polish farmers had to pay customs for their products inside EU but have reasonable options to sell outside of EU now have to pay French farmers cash so they can rule them over while french having still 3 time avarage sallary as poles. Awesome

[smjjames]

 

Taxation is theft

 

 

What exactly are taxes stealing?

 

 

How else is the government going to make money?

[smjjames]

 

 

 

 

I am sure I don't have to define to you what Marxism is, you can read their manifesto if you didn't but its beside the point. Some of us still remember how real marxism looks like in reality.

 

but back to EU to give you some, lets say economical example:

 

https://www.euractiv.com/section/road-safety/news/controversial-eu-labour-rules-tackle-truck-drivers-pay-and-working-conditions/

 

and:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-budget-agriculture/eu-proposes-to-cut-farm-subsidies-france-says-unacceptable-idUSKBN1I31WW

 

edit, incorect link

 

Protectionism is great capitalist method when USA does it, but when rich EU countries do it is Marxism    

 

 

well it would be ok if EU country does not do it against other EU members, got it?

 

 

Anti-EUism is good thing until it hits home 

 

 

no idea where you are heading with this? I am pro free trade inside EU as it was originally supposed to be, but some power players just decide that they will instead of customs as it used to be previously pushed subsidities everyone in EU have to pay now.

 

so instead of polish farmers had to pay customs for their products inside EU but have reasonable options to sell outside of EU now have to pay French farmers cash so they can rule them over while french having still 3 time avarage sallary as poles. Awesome

 

 

Maybe he is talking about Brext? I know neither of you are British, just that it's the only thing I can think of or know of where he is heading with that.

[Elerond]

 

 

 

 

I am sure I don't have to define to you what Marxism is, you can read their manifesto if you didn't but its beside the point. Some of us still remember how real marxism looks like in reality.

 

but back to EU to give you some, lets say economical example:

 

https://www.euractiv.com/section/road-safety/news/controversial-eu-labour-rules-tackle-truck-drivers-pay-and-working-conditions/

 

and:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-budget-agriculture/eu-proposes-to-cut-farm-subsidies-france-says-unacceptable-idUSKBN1I31WW

 

edit, incorect link

 

Protectionism is great capitalist method when USA does it, but when rich EU countries do it is Marxism    

 

 

well it would be ok if EU country does not do it against other EU members, got it?

 

 

Anti-EUism is good thing until it hits home 

 

 

no idea where you are heading with this? I am pro free trade inside EU as it was originally supposed to be, but some power players just decide that they will instead of customs as it used to be previously pushed subsidities everyone in EU have to pay now.

 

so instead of polish farmers had to pay customs for their products inside EU but have reasonable options to sell outside of EU now have to pay French farmers cash so they can rule them over while french having still 3 time avarage sallary as poles. Awesome

 

 

It is anti-EU mentality which drives protectionism in EU. Poorer countries aren't seen as equal trade partners but parasites that leech on richer countries. Cheap labour and products from those countries is used in political fearmongering to cause people fear for their own future and therefore gain people's support for anti-EU and anti-free trade, anti-foreign labour, and anti-immigration policies. These days even previously pro-EU parties are seen to introduce protectionism in their political agendas, because otherwise they would lose seats.

 

And ironically it anti-EU mentality is viewed very favourably in EU's poorer countries, like Poland, who are first to suffer from protectionism inside of EU, which increases their anti-EU mentality which then makes anti-EU mentality stronger in richer countries.

[Chilloutman]

well, its your opinion, rich countries bought a lot of business in east EU and syphon taxes to their home countries while using subsidies to protect their own business at home while at same time virtue signaling with open borders for out of EU migrants. I don't see much irony here. We get how we are viewed in western EU, we just don't care much - with Brexit almost done EU will probably soon crumbe itself as it will be only French and Germans arguing who get to screw others more

[BruceVC]

"Its nice for you guys living in first world countries to believe that but in many countries people have to pay for water and when you have droughts these costs can and do increase in the form of taxes\tariffs"

 

Never heard of bottled water?

 

Did you just call Kalifornia a 3rd world country?

 

 

LMAO

 

Bottom line is water should ALWAYS be FREE. No exceptions.

 

Your way is how the Mad Max/FO style of world comes into being.

Yes in the case  of the recent Cape Town drought my family and friends living in Cape Town bought bottled water in large quantities and would store the water, for example,  in there garages but not everyone can afford to buy bottled water, this is just a  reality for a country like SA where we have massive economic gap between people 

 

Take a look at the conditions some impoverished people live in and consider how they could pay for bottled water

 

https://za.pinterest.com/susansmit/squatter-camps-south-africa/?lp=true

Edited December 4, 2018 by BruceVC

[Chilloutman]

 

"Its nice for you guys living in first world countries to believe that but in many countries people have to pay for water and when you have droughts these costs can and do increase in the form of taxes\tariffs"

 

Never heard of bottled water?

 

Did you just call Kalifornia a 3rd world country?

 

 

LMAO

 

Bottom line is water should ALWAYS be FREE. No exceptions.

 

Your way is how the Mad Max/FO style of world comes into being.

Yes in the case  of the recent Cape Town drought my family and friends living in Cape Town bought water in large quantities and would store the water, for example,  in there garages but not everyone can afford to buy bottled water, this is just a  reality for a country like SA where we have massive economic gap between people 

 

Take a look at the conditions some impoverished people live in and consider how they could pay for bottled water

 

https://za.pinterest.com/susansmit/squatter-camps-south-africa/?lp=true

 

 

hah, bigger problem in SA is complete incopetence that economic gap

[Guard Dog]

 

Taxation is theft

 

 

What exactly are taxes stealing?

 

Suppose you own a bar. One night just before closing I show up and demand all of the money you made that night at gunpoint. Then the next day I show up at your bar and use some of that money to buy a drink. Is that still theft? Now imagine this goes on one night a week... forever. And there is nothing you can do about it. Is it stealing if I force you to give it to me but you still get a little benefit from it?

Edited December 4, 2018 by Guard Dog

[BruceVC]

well, its your opinion, rich countries bought a lot of business in east EU and syphon taxes to their home countries while using subsidies to protect their own business at home while at same time virtue signaling with open borders for out of EU migrants. I don't see much irony here. We get how we are viewed in western EU, we just don't care much - with Brexit almost done EU will probably soon crumbe itself as it will be only French and Germans arguing who get to screw others more

In the highly unlikely and indubitably disastrous  event that the EU crashes who is going to provide economic stability and prosperity for countries like Czech, who is the alternative ?

 

Mother Russia is not your savior as you well know 

[Chilloutman]

 

well, its your opinion, rich countries bought a lot of business in east EU and syphon taxes to their home countries while using subsidies to protect their own business at home while at same time virtue signaling with open borders for out of EU migrants. I don't see much irony here. We get how we are viewed in western EU, we just don't care much - with Brexit almost done EU will probably soon crumbe itself as it will be only French and Germans arguing who get to screw others more

In the highly unlikely and indubitably disastrous  event that the EU crashes who is going to provide economic stability and prosperity for countries like Czech, who is the alternative ?

 

Mother Russia is not your savior as you well know 

 

 

we lived in economic growth and stability 20 years before joining EU, we will manage to do so after as well, but thanks for your concerns

[Guard Dog]

 

 

Taxation is theft

 

 

What exactly are taxes stealing?

 

 

How else is the government going to make money?

 

There are ways to fund a government other than taxes. But not at anywhere near the levels required for current spending orgies at all levels. But just because taxes cannot be dispensed with does not mean they are not literally stealing our money. 

[HoonDing]

Theft is taxation.

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

Taxation is theft

 

 

What exactly are taxes stealing?

 

 

How else is the government going to make money?

 

There are ways to fund a government other than taxes. But not at anywhere near the levels required for current spending orgies at all levels. But just because taxes cannot be dispensed with does not mean they are not literally stealing our money. 

 

 

cmon man, no-one likes taxes and goverment overspending but you live in makebelieve lands if you think you don't need gov at all

[BruceVC]

 

 

well, its your opinion, rich countries bought a lot of business in east EU and syphon taxes to their home countries while using subsidies to protect their own business at home while at same time virtue signaling with open borders for out of EU migrants. I don't see much irony here. We get how we are viewed in western EU, we just don't care much - with Brexit almost done EU will probably soon crumbe itself as it will be only French and Germans arguing who get to screw others more

In the highly unlikely and indubitably disastrous  event that the EU crashes who is going to provide economic stability and prosperity for countries like Czech, who is the alternative ?

 

Mother Russia is not your savior as you well know 

 

 

we lived in economic growth and stability 20 years before joining EU, we will manage to do so after as well, but thanks for your concerns

 

The world has changed and so have ways to ensure economic prosperity

 

Its is much more logical, sustainable and effective to negotiate trade deals if you part of a larger, united block of countries like the EU than to be on your own

 

The EU represents the worlds wealthiest union of countries, I am not sure why you think leaving it would make any realistic economic sense ?

[Guard Dog]

 

 

 

cmon man, no-one likes taxes and goverment overspending but you live in makebelieve lands if you think you don't need gov at all

 

Never said we didn't. I'm no anarchist. The question is how much government do we need? And what should it be doing? Well, the answers to that are less clear but I can tell you for a fact what we have now is way too much on both counts. 

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

well, its your opinion, rich countries bought a lot of business in east EU and syphon taxes to their home countries while using subsidies to protect their own business at home while at same time virtue signaling with open borders for out of EU migrants. I don't see much irony here. We get how we are viewed in western EU, we just don't care much - with Brexit almost done EU will probably soon crumbe itself as it will be only French and Germans arguing who get to screw others more

In the highly unlikely and indubitably disastrous  event that the EU crashes who is going to provide economic stability and prosperity for countries like Czech, who is the alternative ?

 

Mother Russia is not your savior as you well know 

 

 

we lived in economic growth and stability 20 years before joining EU, we will manage to do so after as well, but thanks for your concerns

 

The world has changed and so have ways to ensure economic prosperity

 

Its is much more logical, sustainable and effective to negotiate trade deals if you part of a larger, united block of countries like the EU than to be on your own

 

The EU represents the worlds wealthiest union of countries, I am not sure why you think leaving it would make any realistic economic sense ?

 

 

well i gave you few examples above how wealthy EU members screw over those less fortunate, but it seems you either ignore posts you don't like or you are not getting it so what more I can present to you?

 

EU is now very similiar to COMECON. I suggest you to read it. Was great fun!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comecon

Edited December 4, 2018 by Chilloutman

[Malcador]

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/577222

 

Abolishing the Senate  ?

[Elerond]

 

 

 

 

well, its your opinion, rich countries bought a lot of business in east EU and syphon taxes to their home countries while using subsidies to protect their own business at home while at same time virtue signaling with open borders for out of EU migrants. I don't see much irony here. We get how we are viewed in western EU, we just don't care much - with Brexit almost done EU will probably soon crumbe itself as it will be only French and Germans arguing who get to screw others more

In the highly unlikely and indubitably disastrous  event that the EU crashes who is going to provide economic stability and prosperity for countries like Czech, who is the alternative ?

 

Mother Russia is not your savior as you well know 

 

 

we lived in economic growth and stability 20 years before joining EU, we will manage to do so after as well, but thanks for your concerns

 

The world has changed and so have ways to ensure economic prosperity

 

Its is much more logical, sustainable and effective to negotiate trade deals if you part of a larger, united block of countries like the EU than to be on your own

 

The EU represents the worlds wealthiest union of countries, I am not sure why you think leaving it would make any realistic economic sense ?

 

 

well i gave you few examples above how wealthy EU members screw over those less fortunate, but it seems you either ignore posts you don't like or you are not getting it so what more I can present to you?

 

EU is now very similiar to COMECON. I suggest you to read it. Was great fun!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comecon

 

 

Those things are agreed by most of the less fortunate countries, because otherwise they would not go through EU's tiresome decision bureaucracy. 

 

Most of the EU's rules are accepted unanimously by member countries governments.

 

Any decision needs 55% (16) of EU countries vote for it, 72% (21) if proposal does not come from Commission and then also those countries need to have 65% (~333 million) of EU population living in them.

 

Minority of countries can block any decision if there are at least 4 countries who oppose decision and they have at least 35% of EU's population (~180 million) living in them.

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

 

 

well, its your opinion, rich countries bought a lot of business in east EU and syphon taxes to their home countries while using subsidies to protect their own business at home while at same time virtue signaling with open borders for out of EU migrants. I don't see much irony here. We get how we are viewed in western EU, we just don't care much - with Brexit almost done EU will probably soon crumbe itself as it will be only French and Germans arguing who get to screw others more

In the highly unlikely and indubitably disastrous  event that the EU crashes who is going to provide economic stability and prosperity for countries like Czech, who is the alternative ?

 

Mother Russia is not your savior as you well know 

 

 

we lived in economic growth and stability 20 years before joining EU, we will manage to do so after as well, but thanks for your concerns

 

The world has changed and so have ways to ensure economic prosperity

 

Its is much more logical, sustainable and effective to negotiate trade deals if you part of a larger, united block of countries like the EU than to be on your own

 

The EU represents the worlds wealthiest union of countries, I am not sure why you think leaving it would make any realistic economic sense ?

 

 

well i gave you few examples above how wealthy EU members screw over those less fortunate, but it seems you either ignore posts you don't like or you are not getting it so what more I can present to you?

 

EU is now very similiar to COMECON. I suggest you to read it. Was great fun!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comecon

 

 

Those things are agreed by most of the less fortunate countries, because otherwise they would not go through EU's tiresome decision bureaucracy. 

 

Most of the EU's rules are accepted unanimously by member countries governments.

 

Any decision needs 55% (16) of EU countries vote for it, 72% (21) if proposal does not come from Commission and then also those countries need to have 65% (~333 million) of EU population living in them.

 

Minority of countries can block any decision if there are at least 4 countries who oppose decision and they have at least 35% of EU's population (~180 million) living in them.

 

 

I don't remember about any vote about opening borders by Angela, yet she somehow is now telling its everyone problem, go figure

[Elerond]

 

 

 

 

 

 

well, its your opinion, rich countries bought a lot of business in east EU and syphon taxes to their home countries while using subsidies to protect their own business at home while at same time virtue signaling with open borders for out of EU migrants. I don't see much irony here. We get how we are viewed in western EU, we just don't care much - with Brexit almost done EU will probably soon crumbe itself as it will be only French and Germans arguing who get to screw others more

In the highly unlikely and indubitably disastrous  event that the EU crashes who is going to provide economic stability and prosperity for countries like Czech, who is the alternative ?

 

Mother Russia is not your savior as you well know 

 

 

we lived in economic growth and stability 20 years before joining EU, we will manage to do so after as well, but thanks for your concerns

 

The world has changed and so have ways to ensure economic prosperity

 

Its is much more logical, sustainable and effective to negotiate trade deals if you part of a larger, united block of countries like the EU than to be on your own

 

The EU represents the worlds wealthiest union of countries, I am not sure why you think leaving it would make any realistic economic sense ?

 

 

well i gave you few examples above how wealthy EU members screw over those less fortunate, but it seems you either ignore posts you don't like or you are not getting it so what more I can present to you?

 

EU is now very similiar to COMECON. I suggest you to read it. Was great fun!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comecon

 

 

Those things are agreed by most of the less fortunate countries, because otherwise they would not go through EU's tiresome decision bureaucracy. 

 

Most of the EU's rules are accepted unanimously by member countries governments.

 

Any decision needs 55% (16) of EU countries vote for it, 72% (21) if proposal does not come from Commission and then also those countries need to have 65% (~333 million) of EU population living in them.

 

Minority of countries can block any decision if there are at least 4 countries who oppose decision and they have at least 35% of EU's population (~180 million) living in them.

 

 

I don't remember about any vote about opening borders by Angela, yet she somehow is now telling its everyone problem, go figure

 

She didn't open any borders and she didn't change any rules about immigration or how EU or Germany treats refugees, she only publicly said that Germany will accept refugees according to their laws, laws which have existed over 60 years. 

[Volourn]

" In December 1958, almost exactly three years after I entered the House of Representatives, the first American National Election Study, initiated by the University of Michigan, found that 73 percent of Americans trusted the federal government “to do the right thing almost always or most of the time.” As of December 2017, the same study, now conducted by the nonpartisan Pew Research Center, found that this number had plummeted to just 18 percent. "

 

L0L That just shows how naïve and ignorant people were back then. The gov't has not changed. It has always been self serving and anti freedom. ALWAYS.

[Chilloutman]

yeah, thats your opinion, I am not that sure that those millions of poeple are really refugees and it seems Germany is not sure either, latest news from Germany shows that 70% of 'refugees' are lying. But they wanted to look good and now millions of people who oppose our humanitarian values are inside our borders. I don't think its good news.

[HoonDing]

I hear Germany has some experience with processing millions of "troublesome" people.

[Elerond]

yeah, thats your opinion, I am not that sure that those millions of poeple are really refugees and it seems Germany is not sure either, latest news from Germany shows that 70% of 'refugees' are lying. But they wanted to look good and now millions of people who oppose our humanitarian values are inside our borders. I don't think its good news.

 

Mass flight from Syrian and Iraq and then from several African countries has showed that European countries refugee laws which are based on UNHCR - The 1951 Refugee Convention  (and its extension in 1967) don't work well when there is such mass of people seeking asylum. Which is why many countries made emergency changes on their laws in order to limit amount people coming in. Addition to European refugee laws, we saw that countries weren't really prepared to handle such mass of immigrants coming every day for months, meaning there was no process/procedure that countries officials would follow, which allowed lots of unregistered people enter in EU area where they were able to travel freely thanks to EU's free travel agreements. But eventually countries were able to put processes in place to control those masses, but it lead to new problem in southern Europe, especially in Italy and Greece which are two main countries where people enter in EU, which is that they have now big camps of people whose refugee status need to be determined and other EU countries are reluctant to offer their help in that.

 

UNHCR - The 1951 Refugee Convention (and its extension) gives people right to seek asylum and countries obligation to go through comprehensive process to determine if their situation demands international protection aka asylum. Meaning that even though situation of their home country didn't fulfil criteria of asylum in case of majority of people who come to seek asylum or better life during refugee crisis, our laws forced officials to go through that comprehensive process in case of every one who seek asylum and most of the countries didn't really have enough people who handled asylum applications to handle amount of applications they faced and addition to that in asylum seekers whose applications were rejected had/have right to complain to courts about their rejected application, which means another time consuming process before our laws allow to deport person whose application was rejected. And even after official finally get right to deport person it can be quite problematic as Iraq, Syria and some African countries refuse to take person back as in many cases there are no deportation agreement between European countries and said target countries, which can mean that those people who have given deportation order stay in limbo state where they don't have right to stay in the country where they sought asylum, but officials can't force them go to their home country, which has lead to voluntary return policy where governments pay asylum seekers money if they voluntary go back to their home country.