Any thoughts on post-3.1 PotD balance

[thelee]

I had forgotten about the the increased difficulty for mid-late encounters. I was trying to wrap up a run that I wasn't happy with, and just decided to dart down the critical path at ~level 14. This would've been enough to roflstomp Ashen Maw pre-3.1, but I ended up getting my butt handed to me several times over before I gathered my thoughts and put some strategy to it. And then I finished up the Rautaui quest line, and storming Serpent's Crown I also ended up getting my butt handed to me, repeatedly at level 15 (Kapanga Palace second floor and rooftop battles were brutal) whereas before I would've also roflstomped them (instead I spent a couple hours just repeatedly trying the last couple fights).

 

Wondering if anyone else has tried out some of the later game stuff (I wonder if drowned barrows/shimmering isle also got kicked up a notch) and whether you think it's a good fit?

 

Personally, my main beef is how the level guidance for quests on PotD basically is meaningless now. I don't feel embarrassed in saying that if I had actually tried "The Final Maneuver" (final Rautaui quest) at its target level of level 14, it would've been close to impossible for me to complete. Other than that, as long as I'm a bit more mentally prepared for the new challenge (and mentally adjust the target quest levels up +2 levels), I think any lingering PotD difficulty concerns I had go out the window. I'm really curious to see what the Nemnok fight is like now (though that'll be for a future run).

 

edit - part of the difficulty here might be that this run had abydon's challenge enabled. so everyone was in suboptimal gear (mostly exceptional, some fine, and only three that were better than exceptional). i wonder if it would've posed nearly the same kind of challenge if i wasn't deliberately holding back on equipment? (superb everyone, some legendary). still, fighting an enemy party that has a pair of monks unafraid to spam skyward kick, flagellant's path, and whispers of the wind at level 14-15 is rough anyway you slice it.

Edited October 28, 2018 by thelee

[AndreaColombo]

Subbing thread.

[whimper]

How do you feel the difficulty level of the new PotD content compares to the difficulty of the SSS fights?

[Boeroer]

Also interested. Can't play that much atm. But the combat of SSS wasn't particulartly difficult for me with a full party a lvl 15. Of course that may depend a lot on party composition. 

[whimper]

Also interested. Can't play that much atm. But the combat of SSS wasn't particulartly difficult for me with a full party a lvl 15. Of course that may depend a lot on party composition.

Man, my solo run through SSS felt absolutely brutal. : P

 

I’m kind of hoping the difficulty level of these new PotD fights won’t be as hard as SSS. Otherwise I’ll feel obligated to try to solo it again... : P

[diamondsforever]

Gotta say I notice a huge spike during my most recent run with my solo Shadowdancer. Just dinged level 15 and was mopping the floor with that group bounty you get in Radiant Court (quest name escapes me).

 

Anyways, I was on the last one at lifters refuge. I must have reloaded 10 different times. I couldn’t figure it out, I was losing so badly, where just the previous day I had smashed my way through.

[Boeroer]

Torkar is by far the toughest of the Firebrand crew. No wonder you had problems.

[Boeroer]

 

Also interested. Can't play that much atm. But the combat of SSS wasn't particulartly difficult for me with a full party a lvl 15. Of course that may depend a lot on party composition.

Man, my solo run through SSS felt absolutely brutal. : P

 

Sure, solo is a whole different story of course.

[Lampros]

I had forgotten about the the increased difficulty for mid-late encounters. I was trying to wrap up a run that I wasn't happy with, and just decided to dart down the critical path at ~level 14. This would've been enough to roflstomp Ashen Maw pre-3.1, but I ended up getting my butt handed to me several times over before I gathered my thoughts and put some strategy to it. And then I finished up the Rautaui quest line, and storming Serpent's Crown I also ended up getting my butt handed to me, repeatedly at level 15 (Kapanga Palace second floor and rooftop battles were brutal) whereas before I would've also roflstomped them (instead I spent a couple hours just repeatedly trying the last couple fights).

 

Wondering if anyone else has tried out some of the later game stuff (I wonder if drowned barrows/shimmering isle also got kicked up a notch) and whether you think it's a good fit?

 

Personally, my main beef is how the level guidance for quests on PotD basically is meaningless now. I don't feel embarrassed in saying that if I had actually tried "The Final Maneuver" (final Rautaui quest) at its target level of level 14, it would've been close to impossible for me to complete. Other than that, as long as I'm a bit more mentally prepared for the new challenge (and mentally adjust the target quest levels up +2 levels), I think any lingering PotD difficulty concerns I had go out the window. I'm really curious to see what the Nemnok fight is like now (though that'll be for a future run).

 

edit - part of the difficulty here might be that this run had abydon's challenge enabled. so everyone was in suboptimal gear (mostly exceptional, some fine, and only three that were better than exceptional). i wonder if it would've posed nearly the same kind of challenge if i wasn't deliberately holding back on equipment? (superb everyone, some legendary). still, fighting an enemy party that has a pair of monks unafraid to spam skyward kick, flagellant's path, and whispers of the wind at level 14-15 is rough anyway you slice it.

 

Is Final Maueuver's recommended level really level 14? That doesn't make much sense, given that you are already level 20 if you do all the side-quests. I guess the devs didn't expect folks to do even half of the side-quests?

 

Anyways, I thought the difficulty was slightly increased, and I felt it a bit in early and middle levels; but I cannot make it out what changed. Are there more mobs? Are mob stats changed? Either way, I think the game is still too easy when playing with an optimized party.

 

For instance, the dragons went down so quickly that I didn't get to experience the new injury mechanic tied to the dragons. In fact, I think my main character literally got to swing once and nothing else against one of the dragons. Kind of silly.

[thelee]

 

I had forgotten about the the increased difficulty for mid-late encounters. I was trying to wrap up a run that I wasn't happy with, and just decided to dart down the critical path at ~level 14. This would've been enough to roflstomp Ashen Maw pre-3.1, but I ended up getting my butt handed to me several times over before I gathered my thoughts and put some strategy to it. And then I finished up the Rautaui quest line, and storming Serpent's Crown I also ended up getting my butt handed to me, repeatedly at level 15 (Kapanga Palace second floor and rooftop battles were brutal) whereas before I would've also roflstomped them (instead I spent a couple hours just repeatedly trying the last couple fights).

 

Wondering if anyone else has tried out some of the later game stuff (I wonder if drowned barrows/shimmering isle also got kicked up a notch) and whether you think it's a good fit?

 

Personally, my main beef is how the level guidance for quests on PotD basically is meaningless now. I don't feel embarrassed in saying that if I had actually tried "The Final Maneuver" (final Rautaui quest) at its target level of level 14, it would've been close to impossible for me to complete. Other than that, as long as I'm a bit more mentally prepared for the new challenge (and mentally adjust the target quest levels up +2 levels), I think any lingering PotD difficulty concerns I had go out the window. I'm really curious to see what the Nemnok fight is like now (though that'll be for a future run).

 

edit - part of the difficulty here might be that this run had abydon's challenge enabled. so everyone was in suboptimal gear (mostly exceptional, some fine, and only three that were better than exceptional). i wonder if it would've posed nearly the same kind of challenge if i wasn't deliberately holding back on equipment? (superb everyone, some legendary). still, fighting an enemy party that has a pair of monks unafraid to spam skyward kick, flagellant's path, and whispers of the wind at level 14-15 is rough anyway you slice it.

 

Is Final Maueuver's recommended level really level 14? That doesn't make much sense, given that you are already level 20 if you do all the side-quests. I guess the devs didn't expect folks to do even half of the side-quests?

 

Anyways, I thought the difficulty was slightly increased, and I felt it a bit in early and middle levels; but I cannot make it out what changed. Are there more mobs? Are mob stats changed? Either way, I think the game is still too easy when playing with an optimized party.

 

For instance, the dragons went down so quickly that I didn't get to experience the new injury mechanic tied to the dragons. In fact, I think my main character literally got to swing once and nothing else against one of the dragons. Kind of silly.

 

 

Yeah. There's a chart here, which pulled up the level used to determine whether or not to upscale/downscale and/or show you skulls: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/98843-level-scaling-difficulty-potdcompilation-thread/page-3. Obsidian definitely designed the critical path for a large portion of players who barely do any side quests, so low targeted levels. But with the changes it seems like they're acknowleding people who play on PotD are going to be more completionists, so it seems liek the target level has been bumped up a couple of notches.

 

I didn't get to try the dragons (I was blitzing through critical path so I just chose the non-violent option). But at least for me in Ashen Maw, the Rathun there were more numerous (and pulled each other from other rooms), and this time around I had to be very deliberate in what order I killed them (Flamecallers, then Fanatics, and then Raiders... or else Fanatics spam healing on everyone, or else Flamecallers go crazy with nonstop delayed fireballs). Similar thing with the Kapanga Palace fights; I was fighting triple-red-skulled watershapers at level 15, and if I didn't take them down ASAP (though they go down easy once targeted) they would basically keep the entire enemy party permanently alive with 5-6 gardens of life, and nonstop HoTs. Similarly, every single enemy gets pulled in Kapanga Place second floor, and some extra archers and spearmen spawn (though they're just cannon fodder; once the watershapers go down every one else is a bit easier). Kapanga Palace rooftop had beefed up monks... I don't think I've seen enemy monks that can do Whispers of the Wind before. I could be wrong--I've only done the Rautaui quest line once before, so maybe it was always like this (I really doubt it though). Basically, it seems like extra enemies, enemies with more high-level abilities that they use more aggressively, and it's harder to separate out the enemies into separate encounters. (In fact, when I did Ashen Maw with Berath's challenge enabled, I would clear out a room, but still be in combat, and have to manually run to the next room and pull the next batch of enemies. Post-3.1 without Berath's challenge, I didn't have to do any pulling. I aggro-ed one Rathun, ran back to the entrance, and everyone came.)

 

I think if I was level 16, with average superb gear, the fights would've been speedbumps, but not challenging. So I think it does mean that Obsidian tweaked up the end game a little, but if you're a level 20 with full BoW and SSS completion, you're still going to roflstomp most stuff end game.

Edited October 28, 2018 by thelee

[Archaven]

i'm level 18 party and kinda get my butt kick a little in drowned barrows. i'm just normal gamer not expert like you guys . no challenges though. just plain old potd with upscaling.

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

I haven't... noticed anything different. 

 

I think I've been running the game too much solo and always stack +5 on all stats, bonus Pen, Action Speed, Immunities, Resistances... I may have spoiled myself. 

[diamondsforever]

I haven't... noticed anything different.

 

I think I've been running the game too much solo and always stack +5 on all stats, bonus Pen, Action Speed, Immunities, Resistances... I may have spoiled myself.

You have any new builds your working on? Hopefully something Melee

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

 

I haven't... noticed anything different.

 

I think I've been running the game too much solo and always stack +5 on all stats, bonus Pen, Action Speed, Immunities, Resistances... I may have spoiled myself.

You have any new builds your working on? Hopefully something Melee

 

 

If you check this thread --https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/106376-which-are-the-two-least-optimal-or-tuned-up-multi-class-combinations/, that's what I'm playing at the moment, which is a far cry from what most people would pick. It is what I've come to enjoy in this game because it makes combat more deliberate and I need to mind my choices rather than play mostly robotically as with the 'top meta classes'(which is a ridiculous term in a single player game.) 

 

But if you're making a build, my advice is this--first think about how you can stack +5 on all stats, then think about how you will add Penetration and Action Speed, and after that think about defenses, immunities and resistances. Using these simple tips you can go far. Also, you can sink all the ships as soon as you leave Maje, which is a huge boost to xp and cash, and after that you can complete all the ground bounties. 

 

I know you don't do no rest runs, but that way you forego a number of things, most notably Nature's Resolve, which is a sick +10 accuracy bonus. 

[Silvaren]

I started new run on 3.1 patch. I noticed that some beasts (wurms) get enrage after killing one of them and they gain inspirations for each kil. It looks like Galawain's Challenge but I'm sure I didn't pick any challenge nor blessing. It's pure PotD run. Is it itended?

[thelee]

I started new run on 3.1 patch. I noticed that some beasts (wurms) get enrage after killing one of them and they gain inspirations for each kil. It looks like Galawain's Challenge but I'm sure I didn't pick any challenge nor blessing. It's pure PotD run. Is it itended?

Dont worry, this has been happening as long as I can remember in PotD. Intended behavior for some creatures.

[greenblade]

I'm at level 15 doing all kinds of side quests. Here is my early-middle game experience.

 

One thing I noticed is that pulling is not working very well on 3.1. Once a enemy turns hostile, the whole mob (and their brothers) run to you aggressively. And they seem more aggressively targeting your backend members (not 100% sure). I didn't notice any attribute or ability buffs. So once you're prepared to face the whole enemy band, it's about the same. At least the early bosses are not tougher -- I still can kill Uamoru the Pretender and get Aamiina's Legacy at level 12. Like the previous posts pointed out, once I figured out the order to take out dangerous enemies, it's a lot easier to control the situation. Luckily, I have an assassin to do just that.

 

Although this ruined my fun to see how many enemies my archer can take out single-handed at the beginning of fights, I like this change. This feels more like team fight where each member can play an important role.

[thelee]

I'm at level 15 doing all kinds of side quests. Here is my early-middle game experience.

 

One thing I noticed is that pulling is not working very well on 3.1. Once a enemy turns hostile, the whole mob (and their brothers) run to you aggressively. And they seem more aggressively targeting your backend members (not 100% sure). I didn't notice any attribute or ability buffs. So once you're prepared to face the whole enemy band, it's about the same. At least the early bosses are not tougher -- I still can kill Uamoru the Pretender and get Aamiina's Legacy at level 12. Like the previous posts pointed out, once I figured out the order to take out dangerous enemies, it's a lot easier to control the situation. Luckily, I have an assassin to do just that.

 

Although this ruined my fun to see how many enemies my archer can take out single-handed at the beginning of fights, I like this change. This feels more like team fight where each member can play an important role.

 

Yeah one thing I noticed is that it seemed like enemies seemed real happy go lucky about using their mobility abilities (leap, charge, teleport) to my weaker party members. It might be a coincidence - there's just a lot more of them now so it might just be more noticeable. But certainly means you have to be more present for the fights.

[Silvaren]

One thing I noticed is that pulling is not working very well on 3.1. Once a enemy turns hostile, the whole mob (and their brothers) run to you aggressively.

I was surprised in the cave in Vilario's Rest, when during the very first fight with two beettles I faced few skeletons, Revenant and Rotghast at the same time (those monsters were guarding that upper platform with the chest in the bottom right corner of the map prior to 3.1).

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

I believe if you use Spark Crackers you can split pull them. 

[Archaven]

I use trap seems no issue? But not on a new playthrough though

Edited October 29, 2018 by Archaven

[thelee]

 

One thing I noticed is that pulling is not working very well on 3.1. Once a enemy turns hostile, the whole mob (and their brothers) run to you aggressively.

I was surprised in the cave in Vilario's Rest, when during the very first fight with two beettles I faced few skeletons, Revenant and Rotghast at the same time (those monsters were guarding that upper platform with the chest in the bottom right corner of the map prior to 3.1).

 

 

You know what, this happened to me too on a new playthrough. I wonder if this pulling behavior is actually just a bug? Because it seems weird to want to make Vilario's Rest any harder.

[Silvaren]

 

 

One thing I noticed is that pulling is not working very well on 3.1. Once a enemy turns hostile, the whole mob (and their brothers) run to you aggressively.

I was surprised in the cave in Vilario's Rest, when during the very first fight with two beettles I faced few skeletons, Revenant and Rotghast at the same time (those monsters were guarding that upper platform with the chest in the bottom right corner of the map prior to 3.1).

 

 

You know what, this happened to me too on a new playthrough. I wonder if this pulling behavior is actually just a bug? Because it seems weird to want to make Vilario's Rest any harder.

 

It's much easier than drake in engwitan dig site with all boars, panthers and wurms at the same time, but I found nice spot to beat them. Only that drake with breath attack can be painful. Maybe it is better to hire some adventurers instead of going only with Eder and Xoti.

[baldurs_gate_2]

 

Also interested. Can't play that much atm. But the combat of SSS wasn't particulartly difficult for me with a full party a lvl 15. Of course that may depend a lot on party composition.

Man, my solo run through SSS felt absolutely brutal. : P

 

I’m kind of hoping the difficulty level of these new PotD fights won’t be as hard as SSS. Otherwise I’ll feel obligated to try to solo it again... : P

 

Nah man, the survivor challenges are just bad. I want all enemies at once with bdd enabled.

[dudex]

is the increase enemy pulling thing intentional?

 

it makes some of the fights early game really tough like the looters.