[MECHANICS] Explosives

[Prince of Lies]

Hello,
 
The other day I had a shower-thought: Explosives is one of those skills that people seem to not really use. So, In my undying effort to cover information no one really asked for, here's how explosives and the Explosives skill work. 
 
Before we get to what each point of Explosives actually does- there are a few of things to note:
 
First, explosives typically have a base penetration of 7.
Second, is that the accuracy is affected by your base accuracy rating (+20).
Third, range and the area-of-effect radius is not affected by anything. _{(I believe it used to, but isn't any more)}
Fourth, anything that affects recovery (dexterity, armor, items, etc) will effect the recovery when using an explosive.
Fifth, anything that affects accuracy like buffs, items, etc, also effects explosives. (Marked for the Hunt, Ring of Focused Flame, Devotions of the Faithful, etc)
 
Each point of the Explosives Skill will give explosives:
 
+1 Accuracy
+5% Damage
+5% Affliction/Status Effect Duration
+0.25 Penetration
 
On top of that, explosives get a +3 Accuracy bonus for every character level above level 1. 
 
This means that with a level 16 barbarian that has an Explosives skill of 13 the attack would have: 78 Accuracy, +65% Damage, +65% Duration, and 10.25 Penetration.
 
Just like anything, explosives can get critical hits, and can overpenetrate. 
 
The last thing that affects explosives mechanically is reverse pickpocketing. When you reverse-pickpocket an explosive into an enemies inventory, it works the same way as if you were throwing it, but it gets +100 Accuracy, +100% Base Damage, and +100% Base Penetration and gives you about 10 seconds before it detonates. Ironically you actually do not need any points of Sleight of Hand to reverse-pickpocket an explosive, but you do need to be hidden. (If you want to know how pickpocketing works, check this out).
 
The Explosives skill is also used (admittedly, rarely) in scripted interactions and conversations. Typically, the Explosives options involve using, manipulating, or disabling explosive materials and ordinance.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Prince of Lies

[Boeroer]

Cool!

 

Every class gets 20 base accuracy by the way.

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

I like using explosives in my current playthrough. 

 

The balancing of the game is wonky enough, so I am not going to say more about them. 

 

https://youtu.be/DfpHT9pKoXQ 

[Kaylon]

Then a multi class at lvl20 with 20 in explosives will have only 20 + 5*7 + 20 = 75 accuracy?

[Boeroer]

If I understood him correctly then a lvl 20 multiclass char should operate with PL 8 (not 7) when it comes to explosives. So 80 ACC if I'm not mistaken.

 

What about all the ACC buffs, PER etc. No effect like on scrolls?

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Perception woudln't matter, but ring of Focused Flames, Nature's Resolve and Devotion of the Faithful would. Haven't quite checked, but I think Ranger bonuses add up as well. In which case, you can get an explosive up to 130-140 Accuracy. Maybe beyond.

[Prince of Lies]

Cool!

 

Every class gets 20 base accuracy by the way.

 

Updated.

 

Perception woudln't matter, but ring of Focused Flames, Nature's Resolve and Devotion of the Faithful would. Haven't quite checked, but I think Ranger bonuses add up as well. In which case, you can get an explosive up to 130-140 Accuracy. Maybe beyond.

 

Yeah, this is correct. I'll update for clarification. 

[thelee]

Hey, not to put a damper on your research, but may I recommend looking at the Power Level guide first? A lot of this is covered by the power level guide already (the way the explosive skill is implemented is by increased power level, which matters for how multiple modifiers interact with each other).

 

In addition, this +5 accuracy bonus you talk about based on power level, I can't reproduce it at all.

 

Me, in game, just now: 

 

There is a standard +3/level accuracy bonus you get for each character level above 1 that is universally applied. Is that what you're referring to?

Edited October 27, 2018 by thelee

[Prince of Lies]

Woops, your right. That was a typo.  The +5 should be +3.

 

Generally, Power Level also affects things like AOE, which is not the case for explosives. There also things like reverse pickpocketing covered in this guide. 

 

Fun fact: Alchemy seems to originally have been for Explosives, and instead there was a Herbalism skill.

                    "AlchemySkillID": "e67f20e3-5bf9-4d87-9bda-211405107362",

                    "HerbalismSkillID": "1b26af87-fd19-4dc6-9380-4f5cec7aefd5",

The current Alchemy SkillID is the one listed under Herbalism, and the current Explosives SkillID is the one listed under Alchemy. 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Prince of Lies

[Prince of Lies]

Heh. I'm currently running into a bug where if you reverse pickpocket an explosive, it will go flighing from your character (without the throwing animation) towards the target. 

 

Also, you can reverse-pickpocket two explosives, both will be consumed, but only one will deal damage/effects. 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Prince of Lies

[thelee]

Woops, your right. That was a typo.  The +5 should be +3.

 

Generally, Power Level also affects things like AOE, which is not the case for explosives. There also things like reverse pickpocketing covered in this guide. 

 

Fun fact: Alchemy seems to originally have been for Explosives, and instead there was a Herbalism skill.

                    "AlchemySkillID": "e67f20e3-5bf9-4d87-9bda-211405107362",

                    "HerbalismSkillID": "1b26af87-fd19-4dc6-9380-4f5cec7aefd5",

The current Alchemy SkillID is the one listed under Herbalism, and the current Explosives SkillID is the one listed under Alchemy. 

 

power level doesn't affect AoE; it affects projectile count (for multi-projectile stuff), damage/healing, pen, acc, and duration.

 

It's also not +3 per power level, it's +3 per character level past level 1. it's a standard 20 base +3/acc every level after 1 that is part and parcel of most attack rolls.

 

(reverse pickpocketing is also covered in the power level guide. as mentioned there, in addition to +100 accuracy, it also increases explosives base damage by +100%)

Edited October 28, 2018 by thelee

[Prince of Lies]

It's also not +3 per power level, it's +3 per character level past level 1. it's a standard 20 base +3/acc every level after 1 that is part and parcel of most attack rolls.

Yeah, this is right. My theory worked with the two characters I was testing, but when I changed the character levels beyond what I was working with- it proved your point. My bad.

 

I'll add the bit about the +100% damage for reverse-pickpocketing. apparently it also has +100% Penetration, as well:

 

 

                    "AffectedTargetDeathState": "Alive",
                    "HostilityOverride": "Default",
                    "PushDistance": 1,
                    "FaceTarget": "true",
                    "AccuracyBonus": 100,
                    "PenetrationRating": 14,
                    "DamageData": {
                        "DamageType": "Pierce",
                        "AlternateDamageType": "Slash",
                        "Minimum": 30,
                        "Maximum": 50,
                        "DamageProcs": []

 

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Prince of Lies

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Reverse pickpocketing an explosive is very interesting. 

[Boeroer]

But I guess you need high stealth AND highish sleight of hand in order to reverse pickpocket explosives to hostile targets (out of combat)?

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Yup.

 

It still is a very interesting mechanic. 

[Prince of Lies]

You don't need any sleight of hand to reverse-pickpocket explosives. But yeah, you'd need high stealth. 

[thelee]

You don't need any sleight of hand to reverse-pickpocket explosives. But yeah, you'd need high stealth. 

 to really get mileage out of it you'd need Obsidian to fix their known-issue-since-1.0 that you can't reverse pickpocket onto red-circle NPCs (which is basically the vast majority of NPCs you actually want to reverse pick pocket onto). sigh...

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

'Why are my soldiers experiencing spontaneous combustions?'

[Prince of Lies]

The problem there is that when the NPCs are aggressive, the action is to attack- not pickpocket. It would be entirely frustrating if your an assassin trying to sneak attack but you couldn't because you automatically initiate pickpocketing. I don't think there is any easy way around it...

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Bring back the double cursor from Fallout. 

[thelee]

Bring back the double cursor from Fallout.

 

Don't forget its right click menu, too!

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Mmm... right-click menu... 

[Archaven]

Is it the same mechanics for other skill like alchemy? Arcana at least it is easy for me decide base on the scroll level I want to cast.

[thelee]

Is it the same mechanics for other skill like alchemy? Arcana at least it is easy for me decide base on the scroll level I want to cast.

 

Yes. https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/99409-mechanics-power-level-compilation-thread/

 

"Potions/drugs: are influenced by your Alchemy skill. Like scrolls, if you have any bonus to your power level (from items, potions, or whatnot), those also boost potion/drug power level. Nalpazca monks effectively have +10 PL for drugs, which generally means +50% duration with drugs. Pre-1.2, all potions/drugs got their effect boosted by your alchemy skill, but this scaling has been removed with 1.2. (So no more broken uses of Potion of Impediment.) Might, intellect, and perception have no effect on potions."

 

so potions/drugs get 1 PL bonus scaling (+5% damage/healing, +5% duration mostly) per point of alchemy.

 

Arcana also provides PL scaling to scrolls at half strength, so in addition to helping you meet minimum scroll requirements, it's still worth investing in arcana to make your scrolls all the more powerful. (In fact I would argue that this scaling is slightly broken, because at 15 arcana you are effectively able to cast spells like Tornado or Great Maelstrom with much higher PL scaling than you might otherwise if you were e.g. a druid.)

[Archaven]

I didn't use much potion or drugs. Deadeye seems to cap at +5 acc. Last time it used to scale with alchemy level