The Political Thread - Hobbes Edition

[Volourn]

"It largely is, in fact. Mexico's violence problem stems from the "War on Drugs". That's not just a monumental failure and waste of lives and resources for the US internally, but a total cluster**** for much of Central and South America."

 

Mexico is responsible for Mexico. PERIOD. The US has a war on drugs within its own borders which brings it sown problems yet Mexicans still  migrate to the US. Sorry, dude, but Mexico should put its big boy pants.

 

 

 

 

"I guess that, in your mind, those places have always been ****holes, because... that's what they are, right? Or maybe all browns south of great Tecksus are just lazy and stupid and can't fix their countries so good."

 

Look. Your racism is showing. 'Brown people'. That's disgusting the way you racists steoretype people who look differently than you. I have more respect for Mexicans and other Latinos than you do. I view them as hard working good human beings who deserve ot be treated like the grown ups they are. And, theyc ertainly deserve to have better 'home' ountries instead of ****holes that force them to migrate to a Nazi white supremacy state like the United ****hole of Amerika. L0L

 

 But, hey, don't listen to me. Listen to the Latinos who want the US to follow its own damn laws when it comes immigrants. But, then again, you think all latinos (or as you rfer to them as 'brown people' *puke*) are dumb and lazy. That is pathetic.
 

[Hurlshort]

For a fun read: https://www.univision.com/univision-news/latin-america/trump-ocean-resort-baja-a-foundation-of-lies

[HoonDing]

shoot some kids and claim they were throwing rocks afterwards

 

Trump must've learnt from Bibi

[213374U]

Mexico is responsible for Mexico. PERIOD. The US has a war on drugs within its own borders which brings it sown problems yet Mexicans still  migrate to the US. Sorry, dude, but Mexico should put its big boy pants.

 

Yes, because the billions the US sends to Mexico to enforce the military crackdown as part of the War on Drugs just... disappear once they cross the border. Mexico also exists in a total vacuum, and the cartels running illegal operations on US soil have absolutely nothing to do with the cartels that killed 30k in Mexico last year. Totally disconnected events... much like your brain cells.

 

As for me being racist, I am not the one suggesting that they don't fix their countries because they are incapable of such (because the other possibility is that they don't want to and evidently they'd just rather walk a few thousand miles instead in hopes of a slightly less bleak future).

 

The term itself is not racist, and being hispanic myself (from Spain, though you may be more familiar with the term "Europe's Mexico" as popularized by Trump), the idea that you have "more respect" for hispanics than I do has the rare merit of topping the list of stupid things you've ever written here. By "treating them like grown ups" you mean send them back to Honduras where perhaps they'll be executed by US-backed death squads, because you'd rather not have them living next door. But no, you're not racist at all, you just want them to die as adults. Even if minors are prominent victims of the violence they are fleeing, they can die as adults for all that you care. But yeah, you're probably not a racist. Just a general waste of skin and an oxygen thief.

 

And this, boys and girls, is why you never step into bizarro land.

[Gfted1]

...(from Spain, though you may be more familiar with the term "Europe's Mexico" as popularized by Trump).

That made me laugh (in humor, not at you) so I tried to Google it up, to no success. Link?

[smjjames]

 

...(from Spain, though you may be more familiar with the term "Europe's Mexico" as popularized by Trump).

That made me laugh (in humor, not at you) so I tried to Google it up, to no success. Link?

 

 

I thought that was Poland, not Spain? In any case, haven't heard that particular term applied to Mexico.

[Volourn]

"The term itself is not racist, and being hispanic myself (from Spain"

 

You are European. Home of the Nazis.  Not a latino from South or Central Amerika. You have no respect for grown adults. That much is clear. You see them as being incapable. Again, you claim the US is a ****hole  so why are you trying to get all these latinos to head to such an evil place? You hate them that much.

 

Again, Mexico is responsible for Mexico. It is own damn country.

 

 

"because you'd rather not have them living next door."

 

Pretty big neighbourhood since I'm no filthy Amerikan. LMAO

Edited November 1, 2018 by Volourn

[213374U]

 

...(from Spain, though you may be more familiar with the term "Europe's Mexico" as popularized by Trump).

That made me laugh (in humor, not at you) so I tried to Google it up, to no success. Link?

 

Nah, not an actual Trump quote, as far as I know. It's a zinger from some late night show that made me laugh as well. Sorry for the confusion.

 

edit: yes! I am literally a nazi, as well as literally a militant SJW type. Now it all makes perfect sense... in bizarro land.

 

edit 2: found it.

 

By the way, we actually have some experience with putting up physical obstacles along the border to curb illegal immigration, on a much smaller and more manageable scale. Long story short, it doesn't work unless you are willing to use deadly force as a matter of course. It generally results in both immigrants and enforcers getting injured, for little gain.

Edited November 1, 2018 by 213374U

[smjjames]

Nice job painting all of Europe as Nazis, volourn.... /s

[Volourn]

"Nice job painting all of Europe as Nazis, volourn.... /s"

 

Actually, I said Europe was Home of the Nazis. I didn't say all Europeans are Nazis.  :wink:

 

The subtle implication si there much like it is hinted that all kanadians live in igloos.

 

 

#NotAll Europeans
 

[ShadySands]

Eh, everything is Nazis with Volo

 

[smjjames]

"Nice job painting all of Europe as Nazis, volourn.... /s"

 

Actually, I said Europe was Home of the Nazis. I didn't say all Europeans are Nazis.  :wink:

 

The subtle implication si there much like it is hinted that all kanadians live in igloos.

 

 

#NotAll Europeans

 

 

There ARE neo-nazis in Canada too, don't think your country as being exempt from that contagion.

[Malcador]

Yup. Always blame outsiders for a country's problems. Wow. Isn't that what 'populists' like Trump are attacked for.

 

It is not Amerika's fault that Mexico is such a ****hole that Mexicans prefer to live in the US. *shrug*

 

 

 

"Sure you should, all that means you're not rejected outright - they'll look at the degree. If your country has death squads roaming around or gangs essentially owning parts of it, that's different from being mugged, right ? "

 

Changing the defeintion of violence I see?

 

You claim that violence should be a reason to go ahead with asylum.

 

A mugging is violent. PERIOD.

 

But, now, you are changing the barometet. Look, at that. You agree with me. 'Threshold' of violence *does* matter when determining asylum. THANK YOU.

 

 

Now, good luck getting everyone to agree what that threshold should be.

No, didn't change it, and said it is valid reason to claim, so then it has to be looked at. Not all claims are granted right? Edited November 1, 2018 by Malcador

[Volourn]

But it isn't valid. Being mugged is not a valid reason to claim asylum. It is a violent act though. You claimed violence  as being valid.  But, that simply isn't true.

 

Being mugged is violent.

 

Being a victim of a country exploding into civil war or a true dictatorship aka NK is as well.

 

The first is not a valid reason to claim asylum. The second is.

 

 

If you disagree with this there is clearly a piece of logic missing from your brain.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Volourn

[smjjames]

Being mugged once in a normally peaceful and safe environment isn't grounds for asylum, true, but the thing is that the situations these people come from are places that are violent and not safe all the time.

[Malcador]

But it isn't valid. Being mugged is not a valid reason to claim asylum. It is a violent act though. You claimed violence as being valid. But, that simply isn't true.

 

Being mugged is violent.

 

Being a victim of a country exploding into civil war or a true dictatorship aka NK is as well.

 

The first is not a valid reason to claim asylum. The second is.

 

 

If you disagree with this there is clearly a piece of logic missing from your brain.

Isn't a valid one to grant it. I forget how literal and specific I need to be. Besides originally gang and domestic violence were the types considered. Edited November 1, 2018 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

Thats what makes me cast the stinkeye on this whole dog and pony show. "Violence and poverty" do not meet the threshold for "asylum":

 

 

 

Asylum has three basic requirements. First, an asylum applicant must establish that he or she fears persecution in their home country.^[4] Second, the applicant must prove that he or she would be persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group. Third, an applicant must establish that the government is either involved in the persecution, or unable to control the conduct of private actors.

 

 

So whats the real intention of these "refugees"? 

Thats one of my broader points, the actual refugees are legitimate but  ostensibly there seems to be a insidious attempt to undermine and create negative attention on the USA through this appalling caravan debacle  ...the good news is that Trump will be seen as the primary antagonist  in this and will always be blamed outside the USA which means most Americans who travel wont or shouldn't be treated in a negative way 

 

So for me if this caravan is allowed in, which is the real objective, then you open the immigrant floodgates and then we will have real issues as thousands more will come to the USA expecting to become citizens or at least create some wealth?

 

Some people will dismiss this as fear mongering or just extreme rhetoric against  immigrants but in both the EU and South Africa we were told to just allow a small number into our country and now both places are facing real social and financial pressures...and there  are millions more immigrants than ever was agreed

 

And no one has ever offered to help SA ....even the dysfunctional  African Union which lectures us in SA about not being nasty to other African people    

 

 

 

@ Gfted1 and other US members 

 

My advice is dont trust anyone who says " lets allow them in and then  deal with them "' 

 

Sadly people blatantly lie and misrepresent  the truth  just to address the immediate problem  and then  aren't prepared to help with the problem. So it has become a major financial problem for SA apart from the resources and housing being utilized illegally 

 

I

[BruceVC]

 

 

...(from Spain, though you may be more familiar with the term "Europe's Mexico" as popularized by Trump).

That made me laugh (in humor, not at you) so I tried to Google it up, to no success. Link?

 

Nah, not an actual Trump quote, as far as I know. It's a zinger from some late night show that made me laugh as well. Sorry for the confusion.

 

edit: yes! I am literally a nazi, as well as literally a militant SJW type. Now it all makes perfect sense... in bizarro land.

 

edit 2: found it.

 

By the way, we actually have some experience with putting up physical obstacles along the border to curb illegal immigration, on a much smaller and more manageable scale. Long story short, it doesn't work unless you are willing to use deadly force as a matter of course. It generally results in both immigrants and enforcers getting injured, for little gain.

 

I have to agree with volo that the primary issues with most failed or failing countries are internal problems  or flawed economic and political polices

 

This causes and creates benighted and failed government institutions and most countries fail so many citizens of  these countries

have to leave to find a better life 

 

 

 

But it isn't valid. Being mugged is not a valid reason to claim asylum. It is a violent act though. You claimed violence as being valid. But, that simply isn't true.

 

Being mugged is violent.

 

Being a victim of a country exploding into civil war or a true dictatorship aka NK is as well.

 

The first is not a valid reason to claim asylum. The second is.

 

 

If you disagree with this there is clearly a piece of logic missing from your brain.

Isn't a valid one to grant it. I forget how literal and specific I need to be. Besides originally gang and domestic violence were the types considered.

 

Yes but we consider you white now...I would say you are very integrated into Canadian  culture.. Welcome to the family.....you need to study the long and detailed history of Colonism  so you know how many countries and  cultures you have impacted or eroded or looted from      

Edited November 1, 2018 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

I know most people on this forum  dont watch CNN and there are times where I dont agree with there general views like now where they are really supporting the caravan. But channels like CNN have been a constant target of Trump so yes CNN presenters and most guests are all very anti-Trump, they will generally have one Trump supporter in every debate so they do try to be inclusive of Trump supporters 

 

However most shows, there are different shows during the day, have some of the best TV presenters I have ever seen. I just need the election to be over so all the discussion isnt just anti-Trump. I have just watched 2 of my favorite guys...you guys should try to watch. Especially Cuomo 

 

1. https://edition.cnn.com/shows/cuomo-prime-time
2. https://edition.cnn.com/profiles/don-lemon-profile

[injurai]

I tend to agree with GD. Trump is no fool, but he is a gambler and he's worked his way into the highest stake game out there. Like all celebrities, he's got a big streak of narcissism, but he's also found a way to use that to attract votes. That alone makes it impossible to dismiss him as a fool. 

 

That's a great way to put it. I hadn't really noticed the gambler's streak in him before. But he basically is gambling with populism for political influence. I don't think Trump wants to destroy America or make it ethno-centric. I just think he isn't in politics to serve others, he is there to continue is high-risk game of trying to win ever bigger. It's why he'd be richer if he had just invest in indexes all along, but he has to be big gambler with his every move in the spotlight.

[BruceVC]

 

I tend to agree with GD. Trump is no fool, but he is a gambler and he's worked his way into the highest stake game out there. Like all celebrities, he's got a big streak of narcissism, but he's also found a way to use that to attract votes. That alone makes it impossible to dismiss him as a fool. 

 

That's a great way to put it. I hadn't really noticed the gambler's streak in him before. But he basically is gambling with populism for political influence. I don't think Trump wants to destroy America or make it ethno-centric. I just think he isn't in politics to serve others, he is there to continue is high-risk game of trying to win ever bigger. It's why he'd be richer if he had just invest in indexes all along, but he has to be big gambler with his every move in the spotlight.

 

 

You right, he has no intention and never has of destroying the USA. I dont think I have even heard that on CNN...who has been saying that ?

 

The whole " rise of the white " has some truth but they are a small and ineffectual movement compared to the number of Americans who are not bigots, like most of you guys on this forum

 

[injurai]

It and variations are said expressively to mean he is degrading aspects of America. People often talk about how he (along with the GOP and Trump's constituency) are subverting American democracy and rolling back progress that finally extended the constitutional rights to minorities and women. With Trump displaying little awareness nor acknowledgement of the worst of his fans, nor of the fears of real American citizens who have concerns and needs. I think people are absolutely right that Trump's messaging and style leverage certain sentiments is dangerous and is adding more damage to an already strained partisan divide. It's clear Trump just wants to win and will work with whatever demographic of America that he feels he can win alongside, with the externalities of his own actions (emboldening populism, nationalism, and ethno-centrism as examples) being less than an afterthought,

[Volourn]

"There ARE neo-nazis in Canada too, don't think your country as being exempt from that contagion."

 

Absolutely. And, I'm wagering 99% of neo-nazis in Kanada have links to Europe. Just sayin'. :wink:

[BruceVC]

"There ARE neo-nazis in Canada too, don't think your country as being exempt from that contagion."

 

Absolutely. And, I'm wagering 99% of neo-nazis in Kanada have links to Europe. Just sayin'. :wink:

I was about to share with  you a real idea I heard from  a NGO in the USA about how the immigrants could be moved legally to Canada as Trudeau has some adviser who literally says Canada will take but then I realized its  a terrible idea as its only a short term solution 

 

The moment these immigrants would be settled in some Canadian icy mountain hellhole it would set a precedent that this type of illegal immigration works and another caravan would be deployed and we  would have the same issue but worse as now there is a sense of a objective which just makes people more driven to get to the USA

'

So they need to be stopped at the Mexican border and an alternative camp found in Mexico or another Central American country, surly there  must be some island they could use if you see the map below ?

 

 https://www.vecteezy.com/vector-art/147469-central-america-map-vector

[BruceVC]

It and variations are said expressively to mean he is degrading aspects of America. People often talk about how he (along with the GOP and Trump's constituency) are subverting American democracy and rolling back progress that finally extended the constitutional rights to minorities and women. With Trump displaying little awareness nor acknowledgement of the worst of his fans, nor of the fears of real American citizens who have concerns and needs. I think people are absolutely right that Trump's messaging and style leverage certain sentiments is dangerous and is adding more damage to an already strained partisan divide. It's clear Trump just wants to win and will work with whatever demographic of America that he feels he can win alongside, with the externalities of his own actions (emboldening populism, nationalism, and ethno-centrism as examples) being less than an afterthought,

This is a very interesting and revealing post which I am not sure you may be aware of, I have heard this before but not on any forums. I just need to clarify something

 

Do you share this worry and other members like Shady are you guys worried about this as well? I just need to know what about Trump concerns people the most so I can confirm I have the right information which should ameliorate most real fears or sense of anxiety

 

After Trump won I stopped frequenting most of the SJ forums I use to visit, I didnt do this because I stopped believing in SJ or human rights or suddenly I felt the world  was a dark place ...no Trump is just a man and he isnt evil but rather capricious, impulsive, strategic , patriotic and committed to his delivery of his promises he made to his base. I left the internet SJ world because I realized parts of it had become corrupted and many of us had been manipulated.  I have learnt much about Trump since then which I will share with you a little later as I have work to do. Oh and my impending post should be seen as positive but please let me know what is bothering anyone about Trump?