(spoilers) I killed my entire party with a conversation choice

[daver]

It's the first time, in recent memory at least, that I out-right killed my self and all my companions with conversation.  I've made some questionable conversation choices that resulted in combat, but never in complete self destruction.

 

I was doing the first step of the animancers quest and decided to taunt Rymrgand at the end of that area because I'd defeated him in BoW, and was being a bit testy in my responses.  Bad idea.  Poof, insta-death.  It was actually pretty cool since it was entirely unexpected.  Lesson learned:  don't taunt the gods.

[JFutral]

Although it makes me wonder if PoEIII is about becoming a god so we can take them on directly, the wussies.

 

J... <poof>

[Metaturtle]

There's also a few other scripted events that can lead to your sudden demise in solo though I think you'll never need to worry about it if the party assists you. :9

[Tick]

Although it makes me wonder if PoEIII is about becoming a god so we can take them on directly, the wussies.

 

J... <poof>

Pillars is usually a little more grounded than that. We dip our toes into extreme situations but we never become that insanely overpowered.

 

That said, I could totally see options in the next game along the lines of:

 

1) Let everything, kith and gods, die off.

2) Help get a version of the wheel that doesn't feed the gods and thus slowly kill them off.

3) Fix the wheel so that both kith and the gods survive, maybe with some changes that either give kith more power/autonomy in the exchange or give the gods more control.

[house2fly]

I think having final say on the form the next Wheel takes would be a cool story goal

[Xsanf]

Gods are robots since they were created and programmed by Engwithans (maybe with more advanced AI). So it would be cool to have something like Terminator story plot: say, we dive into some old library to learn how exactly gods were created, what was the life before their creation, maybe even return to the past to influence the future... Personally, I hate Deadfire for the lack of dignified options in dialogues with gods (you are an ***-licker or you are insta-killed); if Josh thought it would be a good idea to rub player's face on the ground - well, he has failed.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Xsanf

[house2fly]

You get instakilled if you tell Berath you want to die at the start, or if you mouth off to Rymrgand in the White Void, or if you tell Eothas you want to fight him at the end. Any other time you're speaking with a god you can say what you want. You  don't even have to be polite to Rymrgand.

[daven]

Yep this happened to me the other day. I was pleasantly surprised they put that in.

[misterjimmy]

Although it makes me wonder if PoEIII is about becoming a god so we can take them on directly, the wussies.

 

J... <poof>

Something can help The Watcher will not become the most pathetic and boring protagonist ever in Obsidian game. (´,_ゝ`)

[InsaneCommander]

Lesson learned:  don't taunt the gods.

 

You get instakilled if you tell Berath you want to die at the start, or if you mouth off to Rymrgand in the White Void, or if you tell Eothas you want to fight him at the end. Any other time you're speaking with a god you can say what you want. You  don't even have to be polite to Rymrgand.

 

They actually don't care much about offenses. There were many times my clever character mocked them without any repercussions. And since they don't seem to notice when somebody is one of their priests, I assume that they don't really pay much attention to individual kith. It would be like a dog barking at you in a park. Some people may consider it annoying or disrespectful, but only a few would think of reacting with violence.

 

Luckily for the people on Eora, their gods are not millennials.

[house2fly]

 

Although it makes me wonder if PoEIII is about becoming a god so we can take them on directly, the wussies.

 

J... <poof>

Something can help The Watcher will not become the most pathetic and boring protagonist ever in Obsidian game. (´,_ゝ`)

people seem to have a very low opinion of characters they themselves create

[Tick]

 

 

Although it makes me wonder if PoEIII is about becoming a god so we can take them on directly, the wussies.

 

J... <poof>

Something can help The Watcher will not become the most pathetic and boring protagonist ever in Obsidian game. (´,_ゝ`)

people seem to have a very low opinion of characters they themselves create

Ha.

 

I do think part of the problem is that 1) a lot of people felt like they didn't have agency at the end of Deadfire and 2) some people want the emotional beats or power fantasy you get in a lot of RPGs (eg Bioware). The Watcher can do some amazing things, but they aren't the chosen one that everyone wants to bang.

[Taevyr]

I'd rather play a grounded character whose influence on the story/world is limited and realistic, both in gameplay and story, than one in which I consistently get told how awesome and powerful I am while doing nothing but running from region to region doing menial jobs *cough* DAI *cough*

 

As for Deadfire: 1) you can tell the gods they're wasting your time/being idiots/useless in most "god council" interactions with them, nobody forces you to be an asslicker, just to follow a general sense of self-preservation; and 2) look at any real-life religion and the pillars gods are actually pretty tame in their reactions to a "respectless" watcher.

[Tick]

I'd rather play a grounded character whose influence on the story/world is limited and realistic, both in gameplay and story, than one in which I consistently get told how awesome and powerful I am while doing nothing but running from region to region doing menial jobs *cough* DAI *cough*

 

As for Deadfire: 1) you can tell the gods they're wasting your time/being idiots/useless in most "god council" interactions with them, nobody forces you to be an asslicker, just to follow a general sense of self-preservation; and 2) look at any real-life religion and the pillars gods are actually pretty tame in their reactions to a "respectless" watcher.

100% agree! I think there's value in the other stuff as well, but it's refreshing to have a game with a different attitude about mechanics and narrative.

 

I am surprised by how often they let it slide, though I'm glad there are multiple cases where they don't.

[misterjimmy]

Like The Warden,Chosen One,Vault Dweller and The Courier.

 

But I feel my protagonist is Hawke in poe2. Its seem I can't stop bad thing happen in main story. Those gods or deadfire factions is useless. They just keep fighting each other like a whiny kids.

[Aridea]

Except that the Warden, Chosen One, Vault Dweller and the Courier dealt with far smaller fractions of the world. Yes the quests seemed semi-epic, but they were still dealing with antagonists which were relatively "grounded".

The Watcher has to somehow manage literal Gods - immortal constructs that can affect forces of nature, make volcanoes explode, absorb souls en-masse, and insta-kill our sorry butt. There is so much that one puny human/elf/dwarf/aumaua/orlan can do against them. And we are not playing a demi-god like the Child of Bhaal was in Baldur's Gate. 

As much as I like DA2 I admit Hawke on the other hand messed up everything they touched, so I'd say its a bit different to what we experience in Deadfire.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Aridea

[daven]

I kinda like that everything goes to **** in DA2.

[Aridea]

I kinda like that everything goes to **** in DA2.

 

Same. It was refreshing to feel like a loser for a change instead of another power fantasy.

[Xsanf]

immortal constructs

Not so immortal, I hope. The Watcher doesn't need to be a god to beat the gods off, he/she can simply use their mind and, probably, the help of some other mighty creature (a handful of archmages is almost equal to one god; we have already used Eothas to weaken gods; maybe, if they are so childish, we can even make them killing each other - use Skaenite methods on Skaen himself, lol). Dozens of options. Btw, regarding pro-gods roleplay, I even don't know what the main antagonist for PoE III could be - Rymrgand himself (he supported Eothas' plan as far as I remember) or yet another anti-animancy cult.

[InsaneCommander]

Not so immortal, I hope. The Watcher doesn't need to be a god to beat the gods off, he/she can simply use their mind and, probably, the help of some other mighty creature (a handful of archmages is almost equal to one god; we have already used Eothas to weaken gods; maybe, if they are so childish, we can even make them killing each other - use Skaenite methods on Skaen himself, lol). Dozens of options. Btw, regarding pro-gods roleplay, I even don't know what the main antagonist for PoE III could be - Rymrgand himself (he supported Eothas' plan as far as I remember) or yet another anti-animancy cult.

 

Yes, let us slap their bottoms like when somebody teaches a lesson to a child throwing a tantrum. Turn all of them into pets, like people are asking in the poll thread.

 

Back on topic: they could add more options like the one described by the op. For example:

 

- a clever dialogue choice really offending (or raising the suspicions of) both the Valeras and the Bardattos, causing both families to become hostile to the Watcher and to each other

- option to insult the queen/hazanui/etc to a point they become hostile

 

And so on. Not necessarily insta-death, but definitely with serious consequences

[Aridea]

Not so immortal, I hope.

 

Oh for sure I'd like to fully beat them too, with wits instead of raw power. Power wise the Watcher is an ant in comparison to them, which I am completely fine with.

That said I would not be too heart-broken if there was no way to completely destroy them, even if all you did was just convince them to stop meddling in mortal affairs.

 

 

Back on topic: they could add more options like the one described by the op. For example:

 

- a clever dialogue choice really offending (or raising the suspicions of) both the Valeras and the Bardattos, causing both families to become hostile to the Watcher and to each other

- option to insult the queen/hazanui/etc to a point they become hostile

 

And so on. Not necessarily insta-death, but definitely with serious consequences

 

I wouldn't mind these options too, but I think the reason they don't attack the watcher is purely political, as we are still extremely important and present potential to be utilized in the future. Adding those options would mean greatest politicians and schemers that did this for years would lose it in front of some schmuck. Not to say that it would add an additional layer of choices/consequences to an already complicated web. Idk, its a fine balance...

[InsaneCommander]

I wouldn't mind these options too, but I think the reason they don't attack the watcher is purely political, as we are still extremely important and present potential to be utilized in the future. Adding those options would mean greatest politicians and schemers that did this for years would lose it in front of some schmuck. Not to say that it would add an additional layer of choices/consequences to an already complicated web. Idk, its a fine balance...

 

But what if you are really offensive? Even experienced schemers might lose it then.

[Taevyr]

Rauatai already breaks all ties with the watcher if you side with the druids on Sayuka, and if you kill Scyorielaphas during The Shadow under Nekataka, Onekaza banishes you from her service unless you convince her to do otherwise. They could definitely improve and expand those options, but I don't see experienced politicians (possibly excluding Aeldys) lose their composure over some petty insults, especially since they're all among their subordinates; they'd essentially be undermining their own authority by throwing a public tantrum.

 

Also, being offensive doesn't change anything about your potential use as a free agent, especially when said agent has irreplacable abilities. Sure, you don't even come close to the influence the factions hold, but you're a key tool to shift the deadlock between them. Throwing that away when it may still have some use would be ridiculous.

[daver]

 

I kinda like that everything goes to **** in DA2.

 

Same. It was refreshing to feel like a loser for a change instead of another power fantasy.

 

 

While I really liked the story & most of the companions in DA2, the one thing that I absolutely hated and can't forgive is the way they re-used environments, especially the sewers.  I ended up hating going down there because it was always the same, expect they would block off the left hallway instead of the right.  The right door was locked instead of the left.  Enemies were always in the same areas even if the enemy type changed.  Never anything new to explore.

[InsaneCommander]

Also, being offensive doesn't change anything about your potential use as a free agent, especially when said agent has irreplacable abilities. Sure, you don't even come close to the influence the factions hold, but you're a key tool to shift the deadlock between them. Throwing that away when it may still have some use would be ridiculous.

 

Wait... that is exactly what the RDC is doing with me! They won't let me use their shops and my reputation with them is mixed, but they still give me quests.