Backer rewards rip off

[Shendue]

Again it doesn't state a physical copy of the game is there just a box and as such there isn't anything there that's falsely advertised. I think however, it could have been worded better. In the future I think a very clear and blunt, "There is no physical disc included." statement would be best.

 

Speaking for myself everything I ordered arrived in prime condition so I can't complain as I like the game as well. Things happens and life moves on.

 

Actually, it does:

 

[JerekKruger]

Actually, it does:

 

Read that carefully: the answer states that the purchaser "will receive their digital code in the box", it doesn't say the box will contain discs (the question does, but the question was, presumably, not written by Obsidian).

[dam]

 

Actually, it does:

 

Read that carefully: the answer states that the purchaser "will receive their digital code in the box", it doesn't say the box will contain discs (the question does, but the question was, presumably, not written by Obsidian).

 

 

The question and its answer imply the presence of a physical disc.

This is misleading.

 

While I've already stated why I do not think that was done on purpose by Obsidian, it's misleading nonetheless

Whether the question was written by Obsidian or not is irrelevant, from a customer's viewpoint.

[JerekKruger]

The question and its answer imply the presence of a physical disc.

This is misleading.

I don't think the answer implies the existence of a disc though, but it would have been better if Obsidian either edited the question or made it clear in the answer that there wouldn't be discs. I agree that it's misleading.

[Veolfen]

Anyway, i don't care about discs but, it's mind blowing how i find it way more scandalous than people tend to think it is.

For me, it feels like a bait to encourage people to pledge a minimum amount.

You intended to pledge 40€ ? Look if you pledge 20 more, you'll get a physical copy of the game. Well i'll guess i'll pledge 20 more...


And to get back on what Tick said :

 

 

 

I feel bad for the backers that didn't get what they were hoping for or expected. Getting burnt on this kind of stuff really sucks. :/ 

But I don't get why people treat any of this like a guaranteed product. Especially when so many things can change during production. Things like Kickstarter and Patreon are to help fund something getting made in the first place, not to purchase some item or items. When one donates/pledges money to these things, you should know going in that that money is gone (and that you're okay with that) and that the project may or may not turn out how you want. 

To be fair, I think the wording on a lot of Kickstarters word it like a promise or a guarantee, but I don't think it's realistic expectations. 

He has a point, i tend to never trust "early access" and kickstarter stuff. For exemple, i love FALLOUT and damn i won't pre-order anything before release.

Did it twice => Dayz was my first and a big mistake, and i learned IMMEDIATLY from it, then did it for Star Citizen a second time, but FULLY KNOWING i wasn't sure that the product will ever finish, so i pledged the smallest amount to get early access stuff & the game, knowing that the "money is gone". 

I don't expect anything from supporting a someone/a studio on kickstarter or early access stuff, but on the other hand, the backer "reward" transforms into a giant bait to encourage people at pledging more when the devs don't give you what almost everyone was expecting because they played with words.

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Veolfen

[dam]

Anyway, i don't care about discs but, it's mind blowing how i find it way more scandalous than people tend to think it is.

 

For me, it feels like a bait to encourage people to pledge a minimum amount.

 

You intended to pledge 40€ ? Look if you pledge 20 more, you'll get a physical copy of the game. Well i'll guess i'll pledge 20 more...

 

 

And to get back on what Tick said :

 

 

 

I feel bad for the backers that didn't get what they were hoping for or expected. Getting burnt on this kind of stuff really sucks. :/ 

 

But I don't get why people treat any of this like a guaranteed product. Especially when so many things can change during production. Things like Kickstarter and Patreon are to help fund something getting made in the first place, not to purchase some item or items. When one donates/pledges money to these things, you should know going in that that money is gone (and that you're okay with that) and that the project may or may not turn out how you want. 

 

To be fair, I think the wording on a lot of Kickstarters word it like a promise or a guarantee, but I don't think it's realistic expectations. 

He has a point, i tend to never trust "early access" and kickstarter stuff. For exemple, i love FALLOUT and damn i won't pre-order anything before release.

Did it twice => Dayz was my first and a big mistake, and i learned IMMEDIATLY from it, then did it for Star Citizen a second time, but FULLY KNOWING i wasn't sure that the product will ever finish, so i pledged the smallest amount to get early access stuff & the game, knowing that the "money is gone". 

I don't expect anything from supporting a someone/a studio on kickstarter or early access stuff, but on the other hand, the backer "reward" transforms into a giant bait to encourage people at pledging more when the devs don't give you what almost everyone was expecting because they played with words.

 

 

I would respectfully agree to disagree.

 

Obsidian was in financial trouble back before they started the PoE1 kickstarter [1].

In fact, they were in so much trouble they were in jeopardy of closing shop.

 

They did however raise much more money than they had been hoping to achieve, very likely injecting some of the excess funds into The White March, Tyranny and PoE2 among others.

If memory serves, I seem to recall that PoE2 was already fully funded before the Fig campaign even began.

 

 

What I'm getting at is, I cannot believe for a second they did this on purpose, to try and "bait" customers.

I truly believe if one game producer knows the value of a strong fan base, it is them.

 

 

 

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsidian_Entertainment#2012%E2%80%932015:_The_Stick_of_Truth,_financial_troubles,_and_Pillars_of_Eternity

[Veolfen]

I've gone a bit hard when i've said it's a bait.

I actually wanted to say that when backers don't get what they expect, it starts to look like a bait and i'm kind of unhappy about it.



On the other hand, i'm still happy obsidian is still alive, they are still my favorite devs who made most of my favorite games, but i can't deny i'm very irritated about how this backer reward stuff went.
 

[Mikeymoonshine]

I knew there wouldn't be a disk, I can't remember where but someone said there wasn't going to be i'm pretty sure. It doesn't bother me as the disk would just be sitting on a shelf anyway but it does seem strange to have this nice case in my CE that just contains a card with a code I already have.

[XEternalXDreamsX]

Just by seeing this, I hope consoles have physical copies again and not just on the console's respective digital stores..it is concerning because PC was the target audience and did not receive disks even on higher tiers.

[cykow]

I think that obsidian should give physical tier backer option to buy Obsidian Edition at a discounted price. 

[namelessthree]

I think that obsidian should give physical tier backer option to buy Obsidian Edition at a discounted price. 

 

That would be a nice touch, tbh.

 

Also...

 

"Anyway, i don't care about discs but, it's mind blowing how i find it way more scandalous than people tend to think it is.

 

For me, it feels like a bait to encourage people to pledge a minimum amount.

 

You intended to pledge 40€ ? Look if you pledge 20 more, you'll get a physical copy of the game. Well i'll guess i'll pledge 20 more..."

 

That's exactly how I feel. Should I know there would be no disc I would have backed the project at a lower tier, much lower in fact. The only reason I paid 60 was to get a physical copy of the game on a real box.

 

It's also hurtful they are not addressing this situation at all and ignoring their fans. This makes me want to stop buying their games altogether.

 

It's kinda sad really because I went from Pre-ordering the Collectors Edition of Fallout New Vegas ( the only other game I have ever pre-ordered was Witcher 2 Collector's edition) to basically wanting nothing to do with Obsidian anymore. And like I said, I own and love all their games. The fact they are willing to blissfully ignore so many unhappy fans breaks the deal for me.

[dropko]

Another one feeling ripped-off. Opening the box with the "physical copy" just to find a "virtual copy" was a major letdown...

 

I am sure this legally qualifies as fraud...

[xzar_monty]

Another one feeling ripped-off. Opening the box with the "physical copy" just to find a "virtual copy" was a major letdown...

 

I am sure this legally qualifies as fraud...

 

That's an interesting point, in fact. Somehow I don't think anyone wishes to find out whether a court of law would agree, but it does make Obsidian look very bad.

[mrsamsa]

Cykow, I don't think that offering Obsidian Edition at discounted price will actually cut it. I've already paid almost 80 dollars (base "physical copy" plus delivery) for "just a box" and don't want to pay even more. Dunno if this qualifies as fraud legally, but I sure feel decieved. Unfortunately, as it looks right now, Obsidian will most likely quietly sit the issue out and will not do anything to remedy the damage. Probably, there's no problem from their perspective. Or legal advisor told them to sit tight until the scooe of outcry will become clear. I just can't find any other reason for totally ignoring fair complaints from the loyal backers.

[dropko]

It's like someone said:

 

for 29$ you get a digital orange. for $59 you get a physical orange. you pay the extra and wait for that tasty physical orange.

when you receive it, you open it salivating only to find out that it turns out to be a physical photograph of an orange. "we never said it was a real orange, only a physical one"

 

bollocks! had i known this I would have saved myself the extra 30 USD + 25 USD shipping. paid 55 USD extra for ... nothing. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by dropko

[cykow]

The Obsidian Edition is retail at $80 so frankly speaking I don't mind paying another $21 more for it since I already paid $59 for physical tier.  I also don't mind how much Amazon going to charge for shipping, so the question is are Obsidian willing to do it right.

[dropko]

The Obsidian Edition is retail at $80 so frankly speaking I don't mind paying another $21 more for it since I already paid $59 for physical tier.  I also don't mind how much Amazon going to charge for shipping, so the question is are Obsidian willing to do it right.

 

well i do.

 

i was promised something specific for a specific cost which i cannot accept to pay yet another extra for that exact same thing because of a "game of words" by Obsidian.

[xzar_monty]

I believe cykow's comment was intended as satire/irony, since it is so obviously lacking in common sense.

[Verde]

The quality is questionable and so is the business practice.

 

Obs better get their head out of their ***** because Pathfinder Kingmaker is coming out tomorrow and from what I've read, it borrows from similiar systems but is much tighter and well written based on the beta. If the CRPG craze continues PoE may finder stiffer competition.

[Grimo88]

The quality is questionable and so is the business practice.

 

Obs better get their head out of their ***** because Pathfinder Kingmaker is coming out tomorrow and from what I've read, it borrows from similiar systems but is much tighter and well written based on the beta. If the CRPG craze continues PoE may finder stiffer competition.

‘from what I’ve read’ hahahahaha.

 

Oh man Marvel better watch out - ‘from what I’ve read’ Aquaman is a real banger! It’s the end for Disney! Hahahaha.

[house2fly]

Disney is a vast media empire, Obsidian is a video game developer with around 150 employees

[dropko]

but the appeal to scam is apparently unproportional to that ...

[Verde]

 

The quality is questionable and so is the business practice.

 

Obs better get their head out of their ***** because Pathfinder Kingmaker is coming out tomorrow and from what I've read, it borrows from similiar systems but is much tighter and well written based on the beta. If the CRPG craze continues PoE may finder stiffer competition.

‘from what I’ve read’ hahahahaha.

 

Oh man Marvel better watch out - ‘from what I’ve read’ Aquaman is a real banger! It’s the end for Disney! Hahahaha.

I didn't realize there was a parallel between a company with less than two hundred employees and the one of the biggest media empires in the world. Thanks for enlightening me! Hope you're enjoying your high quality miniatures. Edited September 24, 2018 by Verde

[boffmoffet]

I do kinda wanna weigh in that while I was upset by and disagree with Obsidian's decision to not include a physical copy, I do not feel ripped off or intentionally defrauded in the least. I empathize with those who do feel that strongly, but the quality of the other goods is such that I could not in good conscious agree with the word fraud being thrown around. The game itself is very good, which is the strongest benchmark I have when pledging a game. I also trust Obsidian to leave it patched in such a state that I can look forward to when I feel like revisiting Deadfire. 

 

The wording on the pledge page could have been less confusing. I do not know if it did not reflect Obsidian's intentions from the beginning or whether the decision to not include physical copies was made later but not well announced, but both would be failures in communications.

 

I am disappointed by the several community members discouraging those already bummed about the situation, telling them to "read better." or pointing out the anachronistic nature of the items. I read a great deal of the dev updates I was emailed, and kept up a bit with twitch and forum stuff, but still did not catch this. If it was announced formally it was not done so with any degree of salience. In this thread and the other about physical goods, no one has linked which twitch stream, dev update, fig blog, tweet, or forum post this change was announced in.

[JediEagle]

Well, I guess there are more of us that feel cheated. When Inxile did this with Wasteland 2, they made it right and send every backer a physical dvd. The results was that I backed every single one of their campaigns since then. If/when Obsidian does its next campaign, I'll wish them good luck and maybe buy the game on release day or on sale, but I don't think I'll be backing them again. If I only wanted a digital copy, I would have pledged for the digital copy.

 

And saying they announced it somewhere, does not help. Nobody showed me where they announced it, and it seems a lot of people didnt see it. Obsidian it still quiet on this. I guess there's not really enough of us complaining.