Backer rewards rip off

[Boeroer]

 

I'll quote again from the fig campaign:

 

Physical Box:

 

This is the only place to get a physical copy of Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire! You receive all previous rewards, plus a physical box version of Pillars II upon release. Don't worry: we will email you the digital unlock from the box on release day, so that you can join everybody and play on day one, if you want

 

Rewards:

Physical Box Copy of Pillars II

[...]

It does state a physical copy is in there.

During the campaign this was changed or clarified, though:

Hey guys!

 

Here to answer all of your backer needs! So, in the Physical Box tier, you will get a physical disc of the game, however, it is actually a Steam installer. There will be no disc version of the game this time around. Though you will be able to choose between a Steam key or a GOG key. So for your DRM-free needs, you can go with GOG.

 

For the Early Access Tier, you can do both. You can gain Early Access key for Steam, and then you can also choose to have a GOG key for the full game. So you can have your cake and eat it too!

 

It sounds like at some point after this they decided to not go the steam installer disc and just activation code.

 

Oh, cool that you're answering question here sir, I've asked multiple times Feargus on twitter but he has ignored me so far.

In the description of the Physical Box tier on fig, it reads "This does not include the digital copy of Pillars II".

But your post I quoted is somewhat ambiguous because if I get to choose between steam and gog, it could be that a digital copy is indeed included.

 

The reason I ask is because I really wanna buy a physical box but I know from PoE1 that it can get a while before being delivered (living in Europe, it was almost exactly 3 months). With my standard physical box KS pledge for PoE1 though, I could choose between a gog and steam key so I had the opportunity to play the game right at release. I'd be very sad to wait that long to play PoE2

 

Can you clarify please?

 

Hi Merany!

 

Sorry for the confusion about the wording of the Physical Box Tier. We're going to get that corrected. What it should say is that you will not get an additional digital key. When the game launches, you will also receive an email with the same digital key that will be in the physical box. So you won't have to wait until your package arrives to start playing.

 

Thanks for clarifying this. Feel sad about this though. If you want DRM-free, true you can go GOG, but you won't have a box at all!

 

Out of curiuousity, what is the reasoning to use a Steam installer for the physical copy? Your kickstarting campaign just started and is already very successful

 

As AndreaColombo has pointed out, maintaining patches for dvd backers was a real struggle for us. In the past, we were not able to release a installer patch in a timely manner and it would cause a disconnect between physical and digital users. The reason why the disc comes with a Steam installer is that our primary focus now is to get future content, features, and bug fixes to all users in a timely manner.

I'm thinking that maybe they never got the wording on the Fig site altered to pass this clarification on, I guess.

Most likely a backer who opted for physical box never read this. Maybe she/he didn't even get an email with this. I for example never got a single backer-email after the backer confirmation. As I already said: I couldn't care less for a physical edition, but the communication was rather poorly done and I can understand why people are angry. I won't call it a rip-off though. I don't think they messed up intentionally. Edited August 24, 2018 by Boeroer

[Amentep]

I wasn't saying that everyone should have read it. And indeed the FIG campaign wording was never changed that I could tell as I mentioned (and just flipping through the updates, I don't see the clarification in one of them, but it might be there and I skimmed past it). I can't remember if Josh posted about it on one of his regular posting areas either.  So I agree most backers would never know about it unless they read the thread here.  Like I said it seems like they never really got the word out about it even though they clarified in a thread here, unfortunately for both backers and Obsidian both.

I happened to remember the thread where Aarik D talked about it, though, and thought it worth pointing out that it wasn't a last minute change (which, in a way, makes it all the more frustrating, I'm sure, that the information didn't seem to distribute to backers widely).

[Boeroer]

I agree.

[Tick]

I feel bad for the backers that didn't get what they were hoping for or expected. Getting burnt on this kind of stuff really sucks. :/

 

But I don't get why people treat any of this like a guaranteed product. Especially when so many things can change during production. Things like Kickstarter and Patreon are to help fund something getting made in the first place, not to purchase some item or items. When one donates/pledges money to these things, you should know going in that that money is gone (and that you're okay with that) and that the project may or may not turn out how you want.

 

To be fair, I think the wording on a lot of Kickstarters word it like a promise or a guarantee, but I don't think it's realistic expectations.

[Boeroer]

I think in this case it's especially frustrating because with PoE 1 those "physical" rewards were handled very well and backers assumed this would also be the case with Deadfire - and why shouldn't they?

[ThacoBell]

I feel bad for the backers that didn't get what they were hoping for or expected. Getting burnt on this kind of stuff really sucks. :/

 

But I don't get why people treat any of this like a guaranteed product. Especially when so many things can change during production. Things like Kickstarter and Patreon are to help fund something getting made in the first place, not to purchase some item or items. When one donates/pledges money to these things, you should know going in that that money is gone (and that you're okay with that) and that the project may or may not turn out how you want.

 

To be fair, I think the wording on a lot of Kickstarters word it like a promise or a guarantee, but I don't think it's realistic expectations.

But the fact that they ARE worded that way means that they should be delivered as stated. Anything else could easily be considered fraudulent. Besides, how many people do you think would donate hundreds of dollars so that they MIGHT get something?

[JediEagle]

Well, I got my physical box today and boy was I suprised when I opened it. I never read and update about this (or maybe I forgot), but this experience and the collector's edition for Dreamfall Chapters just convinced me to stop pledging for these things. At the time of pledging (and it was day one) I was promised a physical copy, which to any normal person means a CD or DVD. Somebody might think it will be on a USB key, but nobody expects a code in a box :/ It's really disappointing. Even if they try to fix it with a DVD copy of the game, what's the point, the steelbook can't hold the DVD, it has no placeholder for it. Truly disappointing. Any excuses on semantics about the reward tier (Physical Box) is just treating the customer as a dumb person. 

 

I believe most backers at this tier actually wanted a drm-free DVD copy of the game and that is what they expected. You should have been clear from DAY ONE, this is just a pretty box with code in it. But if you were, I would not have pledged to this tier. So, yeah, I am feeling duped.

[virgi26]

Well, I got my physical box today and boy was I suprised when I opened it. I never read and update about this (or maybe I forgot), but this experience and the collector's edition for Dreamfall Chapters just convinced me to stop pledging for these things. At the time of pledging (and it was day one) I was promised a physical copy, which to any normal person means a CD or DVD. Somebody might think it will be on a USB key, but nobody expects a code in a box :/ It's really disappointing. Even if they try to fix it with a DVD copy of the game, what's the point, the steelbook can't hold the DVD, it has no placeholder for it. Truly disappointing. Any excuses on semantics about the reward tier (Physical Box) is just treating the customer as a dumb person. 

 

I believe most backers at this tier actually wanted a drm-free DVD copy of the game and that is what they expected. You should have been clear from DAY ONE, this is just a pretty box with code in it. But if you were, I would not have pledged to this tier. So, yeah, I am feeling duped.

not sure about "most"... i haven't been using CD/DVD for at least 5 years now o_O

[JediEagle]

Well, then you probably backed a digital reward? If I back a physical copy of the game, I expect the DVD in the box. Otherwise, I would have pledged 20 dollars and that would be that. And I still use CD/DVDs

[Tick]

 

I feel bad for the backers that didn't get what they were hoping for or expected. Getting burnt on this kind of stuff really sucks. :/

 

But I don't get why people treat any of this like a guaranteed product. Especially when so many things can change during production. Things like Kickstarter and Patreon are to help fund something getting made in the first place, not to purchase some item or items. When one donates/pledges money to these things, you should know going in that that money is gone (and that you're okay with that) and that the project may or may not turn out how you want.

 

To be fair, I think the wording on a lot of Kickstarters word it like a promise or a guarantee, but I don't think it's realistic expectations.

But the fact that they ARE worded that way means that they should be delivered as stated. Anything else could easily be considered fraudulent. Besides, how many people do you think would donate hundreds of dollars so that they MIGHT get something?

I would donate that kind of cash, not to maybe get something, but to support a group or person I like and their projects or to support a potentially cool project on its own.

 

Though yeah, I get that feeling /what you're saying. I think Kickstarters feel a pressure to promise a ton to gather support and tend to promise more than they *know* they can deliver, though I'm sure it's hard to really predict that. I still stand by the point that people don't treat these projects like they should, but at the same time the Kickstarters maybe shouldn't so firmly promise things that aren't tangible yet /so far away.

[Manveru123]

Besides, how many people do you think would donate hundreds of dollars so that they MIGHT get something?

 

Thousands of people do this every day with all sorts of lootboxes.

[virgi26]

Well, then you probably backed a digital reward? If I back a physical copy of the game, I expect the DVD in the box. Otherwise, I would have pledged 20 dollars and that would be that. And I still use CD/DVDs

Actually, i've pledge 750 :D

Maybe it's just me... but i did not expect DVD, there are lot of other cool collectibles

 

PS at least you don't expect CD or floppy... jk

[mrsamsa]

Well, I got my physical box today and boy was I suprised when I opened it. I never read and update about this (or maybe I forgot), but this experience and the collector's edition for Dreamfall Chapters just convinced me to stop pledging for these things. At the time of pledging (and it was day one) I was promised a physical copy, which to any normal person means a CD or DVD. Somebody might think it will be on a USB key, but nobody expects a code in a box :/ It's really disappointing. Even if they try to fix it with a DVD copy of the game, what's the point, the steelbook can't hold the DVD, it has no placeholder for it. Truly disappointing. Any excuses on semantics about the reward tier (Physical Box) is just treating the customer as a dumb person. 

 

I believe most backers at this tier actually wanted a drm-free DVD copy of the game and that is what they expected. You should have been clear from DAY ONE, this is just a pretty box with code in it. But if you were, I would not have pledged to this tier. So, yeah, I am feeling duped.

I do feel your pain. My "physical box" arrived on Tuesday. Man, I could not believe what I saw. What a letdown. I don't remember anyone from the team ever contacting me regarding this change, as I would totally aligned my tier accordingly. I don't need a useless box with a "nice sturdy card" and generic thank-you-for-your-money leaflet. Oh, well. It was good while it lasted. Will not back anything from this team ever again.

[Guest Blutwurstritter]

This was really poorly handled. Like others, I would have expected a dvd, given that they mentioned a physical version of the game. They should have stated clearly that this edition does not contain an offline installer for the game.

[Gfted1]

"Code in a box" is the "spiritual successor" to the DVD.

 

Ill get my coat...

[Mannock]

I knew about the no disc so doesn't bother me much. However, the box, the statue and the guide book is taking up so much space. Didn't think anything of it when I pledged. So if anyone want to buy my collector's edition, with the guide book and statue of Eothas (everything still in its original protective plastic) send me a direct message.

[mrsamsa]

I was wondering if anyone have tried to contact Obsidian regarding this fiasco? I've dropped a couple of mails to their support box asking for a refund, both ignored. Have Developers made any statement at all, considering that this thread was created a while back? Total silence on their end is kind of frustrating.

[Purudaya]

As a non-backer, this only reinforces my decision to wait until post-release to buy both PoE1 and PoE2. If Obsidian wants people to pay 100+ USD for their game months to a year before release in exchange for extra content/merch, they should at least aim to fulfill expectations as stated. If I backed a game expecting a physical copy (even if it was amended to a disc with an activation code) and instead got a box with a card in it, I would never support that developer again.

Obsidian could make it right by offering a refund to anyone who isn't happy with the physical components of their backer purchase. It seems like there are quite a few.

[MolokoNoir]

I just got my Backer CE today after a long wait. I, too, didn't realize it would not contain an actual physical copy. To me that's the whole point of getting a CE in the first place, even if I never install from the DVD. I didn't realize the ambiguous wording on the Fig page was at some point clarified, and either way, I had backed for a different promise; "A physical box copy of Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire, along with an additional digital copy, so you don't have to break open the box!" sounds to me like a physical installation medium.

 

Either way, the best part about all this is that the Guidebook, while looking great and being just what I'd want, was a blatant misprint. After the first Chapter there is a white page saying FrontEnd and then instead of Chapter 2 there is another table of contents and Chapter 1 before jumping straight to Chapter 3 afterwards...

I get that this isn't Obsidian's fault but man, what a letdown. I contacted them and hope they'll at least make sure I get a proper Guidebook. The lack of physical copy is just a real disappointment. Especially seeing how I could have just gotten that and other goodies on Amazon instead. Meh.

[boffmoffet]

So quick question regarding this topic. If physical editions of the game exist on amazon for sale right now, and have existed from some time, why was one of those physical editions at least not included for physical tier backers. I understand that Dan. H said that the original decision was made so they could ship the units out right at launch, but when that didn't happen and we had to wait quite a while for the shipments to go out, why not amend the orders to include the physical copies that already existed for those who backed at a wicked amount of money in a "physical copy of Pillars of Eternity 2" tier. 

 

We pledged at that level and the goods you advertised exist in physical form, and have existed for some time. A reason for not including physical copies with the physical copy tier may have made financial or logistical sense at the time, but surely you see how this is a breach in trust for your backing fans. We fulfilled our part of the pledge with money, you have almost fulfilled your end by making a great game, but not including all the advertised merchandise to some of your most loyal fans leaves the trasnaction incomplete and some of us with a real bad taste in our mouths. (If pledging early and for a large sum of money is an indicator of fandom, which is certainly part of what I am expressing when crowdfunding)

 

Specifically to Dan H, Why bother DMing me on the forums looking for my input into what form physical copy rewards should take if you already have physical copies made that you dont intend to send out to those who pledged at that tier?

 

 

 

 

*apologies for any grammatical or spelling errors, I have a brain injury and writing can be difficult some days.

Edited September 16, 2018 by boffmoffet

[mrsamsa]

boffmoffet, honestly, I have no idea why this was done. Obviously, it was a terrible idea. Explanation I can come up with is not a pretty one. Probably, someone came up with the idea that it would be much cheaper to provide a modded four dollar video steelbook with a one dollar plastic card and for some reason fans should be cool with it ("Why would not they, no one uses physical media anyways..." - possible trail of thought) Printing DVDs is probably much more expensive. And buying from Amazon is not cheap too. And yes, I agree, this is breach of our trust. My question to anyone who came up with this would be why I was not warned about it? So I would not change my pledge before it's too late? Why anyone would think it's okay to sell an EMPTY box and expect fans to be cool with it?

[una322]

I got my CE the other day, i knew b4 hand there be no discs, so it didnt bother me tbh. I love everything else in the CE. its good quality, the manual is nice and chunky, the big box is great, and love its in the vain of bg1-2 old pc boxes. overall i feel i got what i paid for. I mean sure i get why some are disappointed about the discs , but it did say in the details " game code" not game disc. so read better lol

[KDubya]

Backing for a physical copy and getting a code is a **** move by Obsidian.

 

When I was living in rural Thailand before we got halfway decent internet I'd actually take a weekend vacation down to Vientiane Laos and stay at a hotel that had high speed internet and do all my downloading there. I spent three weeks downloading Witcher 3 off of GoG running it all night 24/7 just to find the file corrupted. One hour at the hotel and it was done.

[xzar_monty]

I wonder whether anything can be read into the fact that nobody from Obsidian has said anything on this topic. Perhaps not.

[bjon045]

If they sent it on DVD I am pretty sure there would be someone wanting it on CD or Floppy Disc. In this day and age a physical copy normally means a box with either a steam installer or just a code. If you live out in the wops you better take a holiday in a nearby city. This problem, while serious for the hand-full of people it impacts, is not worth addressing - it just wouldn't make financial sense.