Does shattered pillar monk gain wounds from ranged weapons aswell?

[Teclis23]

Like the title says

[Boeroer]

Nope. Only melee auto-attacks. That means no wound from stuff like Torment's Reach or any other active ability.

 

AoE of weapons like Spirit Lance, Wahai Poraga or Whispers of the Endless Paths works and generates wounds (with auto-attacks).

Edited August 7, 2018 by Boeroer

[Teclis23]

If thats the case i reckon a Monk/ Wiz built for spirit lance would prob be the most powerful build in the game

[Murp]

If it's any consolation I'm pretty sure The Long Pain generates wounds. I'm probably completely wrong though so feel free to correct me.

[MaxQuest]

Nope. Only melee auto-attacks. That means no wound from stuff like Torment's Reach or any other active ability.

Aaand tooltip is misleading again:

 

 

Btw, just to clarify: "any active ability" or "any active ability that consumes wounds"?

Edited August 7, 2018 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

Err... why is it misleading?

 

When you are creating a char the description of Shattered Pillar says that he only gets wounds from melee non-abiliy attacks. And that his wound threshold is +200% I believe. In this case I think the description (at char creation) is ok.

 

Spirit Lance can do auto-attacks - as long as you don't use abilities it will fill your wounds.

 

@Teclis23: nope. Shattered Pillar is the worst monk class in my opinion - even with Spirit Lance. The max wound count is 5, not 10 and it's annoying that you can't get wounds from ability usage. A Helwalker/Wizard and more so Nalpasca/Wizard is better in my opinion. A Nalpasca on drugs, Enduring Dance and Alacrity generates wounds faster than I can spend them. I can spam Torment's Reach with no pause. Can also use Minor Blights with no drawback. Can't do that with a Shattered Pillar.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Boeroer

[Purudaya]

It's still beyond me why shattered pillar got the auto-attack nerf. It already gains fewer wounds and it wasn't generating them much faster than a Helwalker/Nalpazca with enduring dance enabled. The idea that a full attack ability can't generate wounds but an auto-attack can is nonsensical to the point of being immersion breaking.

 

It's really too bad — I never really liked Obsidian's concept of the self-flagellating/wound-accruing Monk, so it made a nice alternative lore-wise to have one that gains momentum from dealing damage rather than receiving it.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Purudaya

[Boeroer]

A Shattered Pillar can also use Dance of Death. That's not exclusive to the Nalpasca.

 

So the Nalpasca "only" has the advantage of 1 wound per 6 seconds when using drugs. That's nice but not as good as the unnerfed Shattered Pillar was - who got max wounds with every strike of Torment's Reach and also gained wounds with Rooting Pain (!). That was way too overpowered. I don't know if auto-attacks was the right choice - I guess I would have lifted the wound threshold instead. But something had to be done.

 

But now with the auto-attack-only thing I would at least have removed the wound cap at 5 and give him 10 as well.

 

Getting wounds from auto-attacks only and a cap of 5 wounds is too much in my opinion.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Boeroer

[Purudaya]

Yep, I know that shattered pillar could use dance of death, it just never really needed to before (hence the with/without comparison). I forgot about torment's/rooting pain though; that definitely needed to be fixed.

 

I'd rather come up with an alternative to auto-attacks than increasing the wound limit. Just make it so wounds can't be generated from passives or wound-spending abilities, maybe?

[Boeroer]

That would favor multiclass monks a lot.

[Purudaya]

That would favor multiclass monks a lot.

 

True, but it wouldn't be the first time that multi was a better choice and single classes already use more auto-attacks anyway. Multiclassed Helwalkers/Nalpazcas already have a lot of advantages — Shattered Pillar actually discourages multiclassing somewhat given that multis have more ability uses.

 

I'm all for alternative solutions, but the idea that a SP shadowdancer lands wounds with auto-attacks but not with, say, gouging strike (which is literally described as creating a wound) just doesn't make logical sense. Same for other multi abilities like crushing blow, etc — successful weapon attacks cause wounds by definition, regardless of whether or not they're made in conjunction with an ability.

 

There are other solutions like excluding grazes from SP's wound generation or, more drastically, restricting it to crits only. That would create new synergies with other classes, but that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. 

Edited August 7, 2018 by Purudaya

[MaxQuest]

 

Aaand tooltip is misleading again:

 

 

At character creation: link

 

On mouseover:

 

Btw, just to clarify: "any active ability" or "any active ability that consumes wounds"?

Err... why is it misleading?

 

When you are creating a char the description of Shattered Pillar says that he only gets wounds from melee non-abiliy attacks. And that his wound threshold is +200% I believe. In this case I think the description (at char creation) is ok.

 

In my understanding "melee weapon damage inflicted" is "melee weapon damage inflicted" 

 

Auto-attacks, primary-attacks and full-attacks with melee weapons, all deal "melee weapon damage".

So if some of these don't generate wounds, I consider tooltip as misleading (because I don't see it mentioning "with x-attacks only")

 

I also find it strange that Shattered Pillar - a monk focused on dealing melee damage, has to avoid using a large selection of physical abilities.

Rogue/pillar doesn't generate wounds from Crippling Strike? Pff

 

For balance purpose I find it ok, if wounds can't be generated from abilities/passives that cost wounds to activate. But all other abilities that deal damage (and have melee weapons as their damage source) imho should be generating them for shattered pillar monk.

Edited August 8, 2018 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

Yeah ok, but where is that tooltip from? It's not from char creation I think.

 

Because the description of the subclass at char creation is clear about that drawback.

 

Maybe at a later point in the game the tooltips for Shattered Pillar aren't that clear anymore - but at least while you decide for a subclass (during char creation) you get the info.

 

As I said: allowing wound generation for abilities other than wound consuming ones would heavily favour multiclass monks - I don't think that's great.

 

First of all I would raise the wound limit from 5 to 10 and then I'd see how it feels. At least stuff like Duality and so on would be better with the auto-attacks.

[Boeroer]

Char build subforum...

[MaxQuest]

Yeah ok, but where is that tooltip from? It's not from char creation I think.

 

Because the description of the subclass at char creation is clear about that drawback.

 

Maybe at a later point in the game the tooltips for Shattered Pillar aren't that clear anymore - but at least while you decide for a subclass (during char creation) you get the info.

I have checked it just now. The mouseover tooltip and description at character creation were updated and do contain the ("Does not count abilities") note: example

 

I was thinking my memory is playing tricks on me. but that note indeed wasn't there at release: youtube_vid_1, youtube_vid_2

 

As I said: allowing wound generation for abilities other than wound consuming ones would heavily favour multiclass monks - I don't think that's great.

Valid point.

Now that a player is informed from the start, I'm more ok with the current wound generation conditions.

 

First of all I would raise the wound limit from 5 to 10 and then I'd see how it feels. At least stuff like Duality and so on would be better with the auto-attacks.

Maybe that was the dev idea, that Shattered Pillars should benefit less from amassing wounds for the passive benefits.

But do agree raising the wound count limit would be a good start. At lease from 5 to 8.

Edited August 10, 2018 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

I was thinking my memory is playing tricks on me. but that note indeed wasn't there at release

Yes, you are right: this was changed only recently. Sorry, I should have been more clear about it.