Reworked resting system

[Lótus Haddock]

Limited Rest -> High difficult setting like PotD [similar to PoE1]

Unlimited Rest -> All other Settings

 

If someone want the story, try the other settings more easy to enjoy the story.

 

Or, on the future we can get a God Challenge making you have limited rests.

[nemesis205bw]

The fundemental problem with resting is thus.

 

Player 1: I want to be mechnically forced to manage my resources like AD&D made spellcasters do.

 

Player 2: I don't want to be mechnically forced to manage my resources like AD&D made spellcasters do.

 

There is never a point at which the twain will meet, so all you will ever get is a compromise or fracking off a significant fraction of your player base.

 

I personally thought PoE 1, with the camp and health/endurance, was an excellent compromise and I found it a shame they didnt keep it,

 

But, basically, at the end of the day it boils down to this: the ONLY way to can make resting mean anything other than self-imposed restriction or merely adding tedium to take the choice of out completely of of the player's hands, either by having no resting at all or only allow it at explicitly fixed points (basically bringing game levels back). Otherwise, any amount of restrictions you put on will be circumnavigated by tedious backtracking which just annoys people, (Anything which relies on "increase player tedium as a punishment" is a Bad Thing.)

 

Heck, you can make a reasonable argument that introducing all the inn-based resting buffs is exactly the same problem - it encourages people to go back to the inn to rest for the Neat Buffs, regardless of how much wasted time there is clicking the route back.

 

 

 

 

Even AD&D never really got it work (or any of D&D's later incarnations) - because, ultimately, it is a self-imposed restriction on the players. If they want/need to rest, they will, and all you as DM can do to stop them is basically send monsters at them to kill them when they rest (when they're at, likely, their weakest), meaning they will want to rest more and so on, until you either have to simply end the game with a total party kill (which is basically you as the DM taking your ball and going home with it because the players won't do exactly what you want them to) or you just let the 15-minute adventuring day Be A Thing and prepare accordingly. And there are, I suspect, far fewer players and DMs who want to be going through the hassle of generating new parties and new games every other session because someone is insistent on trying to enforce a resting mechanic. It is, as they say, not a good hill to be dying on in a tabletop game.

There is 3rd option. We could make resting in the wild very expensive and limit tavern rest to only 2-3 per main character level. It would force planning and force players to go as long as possible without rest.

Edited August 8, 2018 by nemesis205bw

[hilfazer]

you want your companions to be essencially immortal and you don't won't to be stuck or reload distant save and damage flow of the narrative. 

 

There's Story Mode just for that.

[Baldiedash]

No thanks. Your idea only makes the game slightly more tedious and frustrating. To each their own I guess, but I do not find resource management mini games fun.

 

Sounds like you are arbitrarily adding resources to manage just for shts and giggles.

 

I like my rpgs to have fun combat and character development. Poe 2 has done a wonderful job at both. Your idea doesn't bring anything positive to either.

 

Poe2 has fun battles that are challenging yet possible. All the resource management is per battle. I have options each battle. I can use my skills and execute my strategy each battle. All my party members have their role and ability to fulfill it each battle. This is fun. Sorry. I love what they've done.

 

Managing my empowers and magic missles over the course of a dungeon is not fun. If the entire game is built around it then sure. Poe2 is not a scavenging survival type game where you use whatever you have on hand.

 

wounds are different story. I somewhat agree that wounds are pointless since you can rest with food anytime you acquire one. However, id much rather they lean on the side of useless and carry on rather than stop everything and return. Until a better solution can be found.

Since you didn't address your question to anyone, I guess it was to the OP, but since I had similar ideas I feel no real compunction answering your post. Also your post kind of bummed me out being essentially one long whine about not liking change. I get that, which is why I proposed any changes to the resting mechanic be included as a challenge (which could be includes as a difficulty setting).

 

Changes to resting wouldn't change the battle mechanics much as it would only make it a bit more difficult being an all-powerful immortal. If you think that you're not all-powerful, or immortal, it's probably because you're not abusing the resting mechanic to make all per-rest abilities, per-encounter abilities instead, as well as make you have enough empower to spam abilities to near infinitum and make any injury meaningless outside the immediate battle. Sure you could say that enforcing limits would make the game harder, and more tedious, but it's not arbitrary to say that the current resting mechanic is slightly flawed since it makes other mechanical features like injuries, per-rest abilities and empower redundant or overpowered. So, I guess what I'm saying is that not all your recourses are supposed to be per-battle, but the current resting mechanic can make them so.

 

Any game that include a resting as a roleplaying feature, usually also include some restrictions, although, admittedly, they are often not very strong. It seems strange to me to say that resting isn't a part of the game because the game isn't only about resting, though.

 

Also, included in any changes, at least to me, is to remove the possibility of being a insomniac super-buffer.

 

And criticism isn't necessarily negative, there is positive criticism and constructive criticism as well. Any changes I propose is to make the game better to me, and should not be taken to mean that I dislike the game, on the contrary, I like it a lot and I like PoE:D better than PoE, especially the combat.

[bringingyouthefuture]

I have never played an RPG to this day that effectively implemented a resting system that couldn't be gamed when necessary, not that they aren't out there somewhere, and not that these aren't great ideas!!!  Honest though if I need to rest in a Dungeon it is like I lost ...

 

I enjoy pushing my characters as far as possible, and truth, if I need to rest and there are limitations, I always find ways around it ... so not sure Obsidian isn't hip to that ...

 

Maybe combined with Trial By Iron you could definitely up the challenge level.  Without limiting the ability to save and reload like Trial By Iron offers, I am not sure limiting resting will do much in terms of game play since dice-role games like this can always be gamed another way - with a lot of reloading

 

All in all resting is such a thing I try to avoid whatever RPG I play, and it's a game mechanic that rarely bothers or makes me excited.  Now if there was an RPG that made you use the restroom, and you got penalized in battle  ... wait never mind.

 

Also, I thought in previous game versions, say the original on release, that some of the buffs fell off after a full-day cycle of traveling, did they change this or was I imagining this?

Edited August 10, 2018 by aaronghowell

[cokane]

The problem with resting in Deadfire is that they have trimmed so much of why it was necessary in previous games that it's now nearly a vestigial part of the game. It's a shame, because the bonuses and thus decisions you can make during resting are interesting in Deadfire. As well, with food they had a perfect way to punish players (a gold cost) for not managing their parties well, as opposed to forcing them into a time-consuming hike of shame for more camping supplies.

 

There's really no way to fix it, from my point of view, since it's tied intricately into the combat mechanics. Abandoning per encounter spells and abilities almost completely means that players no longer have to fight battles with any strategic concerns in mind. Since there's no strategic concerns to juggle, there's no difficult decision-making to engage in with resting. As well, once a player learns to avoid knockdowns/wounds, you can eventually hit a point where you rarely need to rest.

Edited August 11, 2018 by cokane

[nemesis205bw]

There is 3rd option. We could make resting in the wild very expensive and limit tavern rest to only 2-3 per main character level. It would force planning and force players to go as long as possible without rest.

Isnt it good? Cmon

[Manveru123]

 

There is 3rd option. We could make resting in the wild very expensive and limit tavern rest to only 2-3 per main character level. It would force planning and force players to go as long as possible without rest.

Isnt it good? Cmon

 

It's beyond horrible. Force yourself if you want, not other people.

[Aotrs Commander]

 

The fundemental problem with resting is thus.

 

Player 1: I want to be mechnically forced to manage my resources like AD&D made spellcasters do.

 

Player 2: I don't want to be mechnically forced to manage my resources like AD&D made spellcasters do.

 

There is never a point at which the twain will meet, so all you will ever get is a compromise or fracking off a significant fraction of your player base.

There is 3rd option. We could make resting in the wild very expensive and limit tavern rest to only 2-3 per main character level. It would force planning and force players to go as long as possible without rest.

 

That's not a third option, that's the aforementioned "fracking off a significant fraction of your player base" with regard to player 2.

 

Any solution to this issue that involves the use of "force people to" is not going to be a good solution.

 

A lot of people just, as I said, don't WANT to be forced to not rest or be pushed by time constraints because they don't find that to be fun.

 

(I gave up on Mask of the Betrayer because I felt like I was forced to rush through the game (good job making all of your companions be primary spellcasters guys, even if my Warlock wasn't.))

 

 

 

(Not to mention it's extremely gamey.)

[nemesis205bw]

 

 

The fundemental problem with resting is thus.

 

Player 1: I want to be mechnically forced to manage my resources like AD&D made spellcasters do.

 

Player 2: I don't want to be mechnically forced to manage my resources like AD&D made spellcasters do.

 

There is never a point at which the twain will meet, so all you will ever get is a compromise or fracking off a significant fraction of your player base.

There is 3rd option. We could make resting in the wild very expensive and limit tavern rest to only 2-3 per main character level. It would force planning and force players to go as long as possible without rest.

 

That's not a third option, that's the aforementioned "fracking off a significant fraction of your player base" with regard to player 2.

 

Any solution to this issue that involves the use of "force people to" is not going to be a good solution.

 

A lot of people just, as I said, don't WANT to be forced to not rest or be pushed by time constraints because they don't find that to be fun.

 

(I gave up on Mask of the Betrayer because I felt like I was forced to rush through the game (good job making all of your companions be primary spellcasters guys, even if my Warlock wasn't.))

 

 

 

(Not to mention it's extremely gamey

Whats your point? It could be only tickable option (just like ironman) for those people that want more challenge and resource management. So short-sighted...