What are you favorite Cipher spells?

[dunehunter]

That buffed lvl 7 spell (sorry forget the name) that only target vessel and spirit actually does more damage than amplified wave. Too bad you cannot target allies with it, otherwise u can make a ghost heart/cipher, summon spirit pet and cast that on it.

Edited July 10, 2018 by dunehunter

[MaxQuest]

Haha - I see you read the the patchnotes-for-1.2 thread.

I have that tab opened all the time ^^

 

Wouldnt ring leader far and away be the most powerful spell in the game?

Yes and no)

It definitely has a great impact (and especially if solo'ing). Using it might feel even a little cheap. But have to note that by the time I got it (in my last playthrough with a 5-man party), I no longer needed it. I actually even avoided using Ringleader, because it was faster to kill enemies while they were susceptible to foe aoes.

Edited July 10, 2018 by MaxQuest

[dunehunter]

If a spell doesn’t work on final boss, it can’t be considered OP

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

I have that tab opened all the time ^^

 Yes and no)

It definitely has a great impact (and especially if solo'ing). Using it might feel even a little cheap. But have to note that by the time I got it (in my last playthrough with a 5-man party), I no longer needed it. I actually even avoided using Ringleader, because it was faster to kill enemies while they were susceptible to foe aoes.

 

 

 

I'm kinda the same way -- I take Ringleader bu I'm reluctant to use it except situationally because it can be too good; especially since I mostly use Foe AoE powers and spells, Ringleader can end up dramatically prolonging the fight. 

[no1fanboy]

 

Haha - I see you read the the patchnotes-for-1.2 thread.

I have that tab opened all the time ^^

 

Wouldnt ring leader far and away be the most powerful spell in the game?

Yes and no)

It definitely has a great impact (and especially if solo'ing). Using it might feel even a little cheap. But have to note that by the time I got it (in my last playthrough with a 5-man party), I no longer needed it. I actually even avoided using Ringleader, because it was faster to kill enemies while they were susceptible to foe aoes.

 

yeah i had that issue in POE1 where charming enemies only accomplished dragging the fight out for longer as i was able to kill them easily anyway

 

I am finding Deadfire on POTD without blessings  a far harder game then POE1 though. Especially after they nerfed figurines.

 

So now i would say that ringleader has the potential to totaly change the course of even the most difficult battles if its lands succesfully. A cipher with the +10 acc vs will passive using ringleader is a beast.

[Haplok]

 

What about you? Any Cipher spells really stand out to you?

It depends on perspective.

Looking at power's impact during a fight, Disintegration/1000 Cuts, Ring Leader and Amplified Wave do stand out to me.

 

 

But it also matters on the build and cipher's niche in party. Not to mention how early a power can be acquired.

For spell damage-dealing cipher, my (favorite + most-used)/2 powers are: (from top to bottom)

- Amplified Wave

- Soul Shock

(...)

 

Streetfighter/ascendant damage dealer feels quite decent in v1.2. Not as OP as devout/ascendant prior to v1.1.. but still deals respectable total damage.

 

 

Does Soul Shock scale decently? I remember I was rather dissapointed with the damage output when I tried it on my Ascendant/Streetfighter.

Mind Blades seems so much better, particularly under favorable circumstances (2-3 enemies). But it was better even when there were many enemies, due to multiple bounces and great range.

 

In the end I decided that my low-Might Ascendant/Streetfighter does fill up focus very fast and does cast at a very nice speed, but the damage spells in general lack impact, it might be better to auto-attack instead. So I decided to restart with a relatively high-Might Ascendant/Helwalker and I like it more so far. I still have enough focus to cast some cc when needed, it takes a bit longer to reach Ascension, but when I do, spells are quite effective and feel quite impactful. +50-60% damage from Might does make quite a difference. Plus I guess quite a few may also get the elemental lashes from Monk?

 

Of course, he's even more squishy, so I try to hang in the back. Ship combats with multiple enemies focus-firing are a nightmare though.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Haplok

[LegendaryStud]

Disintegration is my favourite. It's always reminded me of DnD.

[M4xw0lf]

Soul Annihilation, because I'm boring and partial to martial characters.

[MaxQuest]

Does Soul Shock scale decently? I remember I was rather dissapointed with the damage output when I tried it on my Ascendant/Streetfighter.

So so. Soul Shock gets only +5% damage per power level.

And I wouldn't mind it's base damage increased by around 15%.

 

As for damage output, here's my level 7 ascendant/streetfighter (22/9/19/19/17/7) in Oathbinder's Sanctum: screenshot

241 total shock damage, when hitting 5 enemies.

 

Mind Blades seems so much better, particularly under favorable circumstances (2-3 enemies). But it was better even when there were many enemies, due to multiple bounces and great range.

I must confess I didn't even learn Mind Blades (in Deadfire) until your reply.

Was expecting that it only has 5 bounces, and stops on miss like in PoE1.

 

I have tried it right now. And through the total damage on average is x2-x1.5 lower than from Soul Shock... it has much faster cast time. I like it.

Here's screenshot from the same fight: 116 slash damage.

 

 

So rawly speaking:

- soul shock hitted 5 enemies; dealt 241 shock damage; and can be spammed in my case every 4.3s

- mind blades resulted in 1 hit and 7 bounces; dealt 116 slash damage; and can be spammed every 2.3s

... and if there are less than 5 enemies, mind blades seem to have an upper hand.

 

Btw, have to note that each bounce gets an increasing damage penalty:

 

main hit: deals 9-14 base damage

1st bounce: deals same base damage at -10% penalty

2nd bounce: deals same base damage at -19% penalty

3rd bounce: deals same base damage at -27% penalty

4th bounce: deals same base damage at -34% penalty

5th bounce: deals same base damage at -41% penalty

6th bounce: deals same base damage at -47% penalty

7th bounce: deals same base damage at -52% penalty

 

 

 

In the end I decided that my low-Might Ascendant/Streetfighter does fill up focus very fast and does cast at a very nice speed, but the damage spells in general lack impact, it might be better to auto-attack instead. So I decided to restart with a relatively high-Might Ascendant/Helwalker and I like it more so far. I still have enough focus to cast some cc when needed, it takes a bit longer to reach Ascension, but when I do, spells are quite effective and feel quite impactful. +50-60% damage from Might does make quite a difference.

That's a nice idea. Lightning Strikes + Helwalker might and int bonuses look sweet.

 

But it's kinda hard to factor if they do outweight the already mentioned streetfighter percs:

- Heating Up passive, which is basically same as +100% recovery speed

- nice full attacks, especially Devastating Blow

- Sneak Attack, Deathblows, Backstab

Getting Ascended takes about 1-2 full attacks or 3-6s.

 

I'll take my current cipher, will try to imagine if he multi-classed in helwalker, and make a rough comparison:

Ascended/Streetfighter @ 22 MIG (dmg coef: 1.36 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.35) = 2.108): 36-51 Soul Shock every 4.3s (2.4s attack + 1.9s recovery) | ~10.1 dps

Ascended/Helwalker @ 32 MIG (dmg coef: 1.66 * (1+ 0.2 + 0.35) = 2.573): 44-62 Soul Shock every 4.9s (1.9s attack + ~3.0s recovery) | ~10.8 dps

 

Not bad. Helwalker might take a bit more time to get to ascendant state, but at least he doesn't have to be distracted and can use Captain's Banquet.

 

Plus I guess quite a few may also get the elemental lashes from Monk?

Lightning Strikes and Turning Wheel tooltips mention that they add elemental lashes only to weapon attacks.

 

Of course, he's even more squishy, so I try to hang in the back. Ship combats with multiple enemies focus-firing are a nightmare though.

Currently running in Deltro's Cage plate.

I like heavy armor in early game on everyone. Plus there is +2 shock PL, and no one focus fires my cipher

[dunehunter]

But turning wheel obviously adds lash to your spells, same as eternal flame. Or they are changed in 1.2?

[MaxQuest]

Ok, just checked Turning Wheel. It does add fire lash to non-dot damaging spells; and to ranged attacks; even if localized tooltip mentions melee attacks only.

 

Lightning Strikes add lash only to weapon attacks.

 

As for Eternal Flame... never used it. But Shared Flames do add a lash to spells.

Edited July 11, 2018 by MaxQuest

[Haplok]

Thank you very much for your detailed reply, MaxQuest! That was indeed very nice and professional how you checked and calculated everything. You're right about the damage reduction on bounces, of course. After a few more it will hardly damage at all.

Also thank you very much for checking the Lightning Strikes/Turning Wheel lash effects on spells. So +20% lash instead of +35%. And unfortunately as late as level 16. Still it's something.

 

You got some nice damage results on SoulShock. 2 crits (out of 5 procs) is a pretty good result for that level I think. Then again, it does target a nice saving throw. Plus I think my Streetfighter had like 8 Might when I tested it.

 

Still I think I'll stay with Mind Blades. Not due to damage (as you've proven, Soulshock can do better with enough targets in range), not even due to cast speed, but due to general convenience of use. I don't have to pay attention to positioning, enemies don't need to be bunched together around the tank. And it will also hit fairly distant casters and ranged enemies staying back, even if they are spread.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Haplok

[Verde]

Great discussion in here!

 

Also I love Mind Blades for the reasons others stated. Ciphers have gotten quite a buff with decreased casting times...let us have our shiny things pls Obsidian:(

Edited July 12, 2018 by Verde

[hilfazer]

 the Ring of Focused Flame 

 

Is there a Ring of Focused Shock/Cold/Corrode? Or some other item for those elements?

[Haplok]

No, but there's an armor that adds 2 PL to Shock spells... and a Pollaxe that adds the same amount (I think?) for Druids.