Upgrade Paths for Barbarian - Blood or Spirit?

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Hey guys!

 

So I was wondering what the overall consensus was about the two upgrade trees for Barbarian's Frenzy ability? In terms of pure utility, Frenzy -> Blood Frenzy -> Blood Storm SOUNDS like it'd be the most useful, but I'm not sure if the effects/bonus damage on Spirit Frenzy/Spirit Tornado make it more desirable. Can someone shed some light on this? 

[Clerith]

Afaik both upgrades are meh, the third tier blood is okay while the third tier spirit is meh again. Initially I thought that spirit would be better, but turns out that most builds use blood. Alternatively, just never upgrade Frenzy, that's fine too.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Afaik both upgrades are meh, the third tier blood is okay while the third tier spirit is meh again. Initially I thought that spirit would be better, but turns out that most builds use blood. Alternatively, just never upgrade Frenzy, that's fine too.

 

I was considering doing that - doesn't Frenzy go up in cost if you upgrade it? 

[Climhazzard]

 

Afaik both upgrades are meh, the third tier blood is okay while the third tier spirit is meh again. Initially I thought that spirit would be better, but turns out that most builds use blood. Alternatively, just never upgrade Frenzy, that's fine too.

 

I was considering doing that - doesn't Frenzy go up in cost if you upgrade it? 

 

 

Not with patch 1.1

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

 

 

Afaik both upgrades are meh, the third tier blood is okay while the third tier spirit is meh again. Initially I thought that spirit would be better, but turns out that most builds use blood. Alternatively, just never upgrade Frenzy, that's fine too.

 

I was considering doing that - doesn't Frenzy go up in cost if you upgrade it? 

 

 

Not with patch 1.1

 

 

Oh yeah? 

 

Cool!

[BalkothTheFeared]

I like Spirit because of the Terrify aura it gives. It's a great defensive boon and can setup some good combos with allies.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

I like Spirit because of the Terrify aura it gives. It's a great defensive boon and can setup some good combos with allies.

 

And plus the name honestly just kind of makes it on its own. 

 

SPIRIT TORNADO! 

 

Sounds like something from a 90s era PS1 JRPG that'd be accompanied by a really poor quality voice over clip in bad Engrish. 

[Lokithecat]

I went Spirit, although I missed a lot of the benefits, due to starting Frenzy before I was in melee range, and then leaped in. 

 

Didn't really see the point of Blood, since you are either fighting trash that will refresh it, and you have the Rage points to burn; or you're on a hard fight, where you won't be refreshing it with kills.

[dunehunter]

Spirit is absolutely better to me because that terrify aura. Best to disable enemy mages in an area.

[Darkprince048]

I think spirit is utterly unfitting for the class tbh. It is a barbarian, what business does he have being able to summon spirits, throw flaming exploding weapons or fly in a pillar of fire? Retarded class design

[Omeganova]

I think spirit is utterly unfitting for the class tbh. It is a barbarian, what business does he have being able to summon spirits, throw flaming exploding weapons or fly in a pillar of fire? Retarded class design

I mean just take a look at the flovor text for Corpse-Eaters "Often loathed by their enemies, corpse eaters consume the flesh of fallen foes to gain their power. No mere cannibals, the corpse eater must conduct their rites in the heat of battle. Outside of their communties, corpse eaters are often misunderstood as desecrators of the dead. In the minds of the corspe eaters, consuming the flesh of an opponent honors them and their sacrifice."

 

It's obvious that Barbarians in Eora are more then simple brutes, and that they display plenty of shamanistic traits and reverence for the dead. Why on earth is it not fitting for a shamanistic warrior to call on the spirits of tribesman or hell even totem animals to weaken their foes? Just take a look at the DnD 5th Totem Barbarian and the Spirit Guardian.

 

And on the the topic of fire, why cant their rage burn so hot that it can ignite? 

 

Or would you prefer that Barbarians just get angry and smack people with their axe?

Edited June 9, 2018 by Omeganova

[Seroster01]

Or would you prefer that Barbarians just get angry and smack people with their axe?

Well I mean, he DOES have a thread in this forum where he promotes just that.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Blood for Berserker to keep frenzy going.

[Boeroer]

I think spirit is utterly unfitting for the class tbh. It is a barbarian, what business does he have being able to summon spirits, throw flaming exploding weapons or fly in a pillar of fire? Retarded class design

In a discussion about what is better, Blood Storm or Sprit Tornadoes, your point is not relevant.

 

While I partially agree with your basic sentiment I don't agree with your style of communicating it. With those offensive "retarded class design" comments that you place in random topics you will achieve nothig (except that people get annoyed). You should stick to your thread that you opened specifically for those complaints - and not place rants about it in other topics that have nothing to do with it. If you need to blow off some steam because you are angry about the design of a computer game: fine - but do it there.

 

@topic: atm I find Spirit Tornado to be better - as others said: just because of the Terrify which is a great CC effect.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Boeroer

[Seroster01]

My opinion on the subject is divided based on your stat distribution & sub-class choice (by which I mean no subclass or Berserker, cause the other 2 have more drawbacks than positives). If you have high-int & no subclass, or high int & are a Berserker with a way to get rid of the confusion effect, I'd say take the Spirit line. The CC effects are great, having high INT means you don't have to worry too much about the duration, and if you single-class and get it to the final upgrade the AOE damage is surprising high.

 

The Blood upgrades are useful if you have low INT, picked the mage-killer subclass for some unfathomable reason, or are a Zerker who just eats the confusion effect. (This seems like you'd cause serious issues though so I'm not sure how common this actually is...) You don't want the spirit effects hitting your allies, and the bonus duration on kill works out since you're going to have low-ish duration because of the build choices you made.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Seroster01

[Shadenuat]

Honestly the best part of Rage is speed bonus and everything else is basically a debuff and bunch of weakest inspirations which can be replicated by other abilities. Might just not upgrade it and pick passives instead for more profit.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Shadenuat

[Boeroer]

Slightly offtopic, but now that Flesh Communication has no encounter limit anymore in 1.1: Do you still think that Corpse Eaters have more drawbacks than benefits? Kith and beast enemies are very common - and on PotD where fights now take a lot longer I found that it can be (not always of course) of great benefit to have a much bigger resource pool due to Flesh Communion. The +1 rage cost is harsh at the beginning but doesn't have that much impact later on once ability costs rise anyway. For example with Frenzy it's harsh because the costs are +100% -  but already with Barbaric Blow it's "only" an increase of  50%, Savage Defiance 33% and so on...? 

[mammasaura]

My opinion on the subject is divided based on your stat distribution & sub-class choice (by which I mean no subclass or Berserker, cause the other 2 have more drawbacks than positives). If you have high-int & no subclass, or high int & are a Berserker with a way to get rid of the confusion effect, I'd say take the Spirit line. The CC effects are great, having high INT means you don't have to worry too much about the duration, and if you single-class and get it to the final upgrade the AOE damage is surprising high.

 

The Blood upgrades are useful if you have low INT, picked the mage-killer subclass for some unfathomable reason, or are a Zerker who just eats the confusion effect. (This seems like you'd cause serious issues though so I'm not sure how common this actually is...) You don't want the spirit effects hitting your allies, and the bonus duration on kill works out since you're going to have low-ish duration because of the build choices you made.

 

Berserker can't upgrade to spirit line, can only upgrade to blood frenzy.

 

I guess you're proposing blood line for mage slayer in order to keep frenzy up to compensate the debuff duration.

There's not such debuff on mage slayer since the release.

I agree mage slayer should take blood line, mainly if dots can proc interrupt on a spell disruption debuff, but need to test.

Edited June 9, 2018 by mammasaura

[Shadenuat]

 

Do you still think that Corpse Eaters have more drawbacks than benefits? Kith and beast enemies are very common

But they're not everything. Like, during boss fights/dragons/fap-myrs you're just having a penalty.

 

+50% on barbaric blow is harsh because it's best barb's click-me button, and I want to click it ~5 times and then refresh and click it again as fast as possible, not to derp around clicking on dead enemies instead of alive enemies.

 

Single barb at least needs no kits. Maybe if zerk also got Baldur's Gate immunities, then maybe.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Shadenuat

[Boeroer]

Berserker can't upgrade to spirit line, can only upgrade to blood frenzy.

 

I guess you're proposing blood line for mage slayer in order to keep frenzy up to compensate the debuff duration.

There's not such debuff on mage slayer since the release.

I agree mage slayer should take blood line, mainly if dots can proc interrupt on a spell disruption debuff, but need to test.

That is not correct. It was just an UI glitch during character creation. Berserkers can pick the same abilites as any other barbarian (just made a screenshot of my Devoted/Berserker's level up page):

 

[ErlKing]

Right now Corpse eaters still not viable, so unless you want to play one for RP reasons you better pick berserker or default barbarian.

 

 

I would like to see Corpse eaters as Witcher-like fighter, not eating corpses on spot like a zombie, but loot special ingredients from Kith/Wilder enemies and craft special foods from it that might help with hard fights. These bonuses might be powerful, but since you can have only one active Corpse-eater will have to choose which one he needs for the fight.

Something like that:

Generic bonus from kith meat that applies to all special foods = + Power Level (depending on rarity of ingredients)

Kith meat + drakes wings = + Burn/Freeze armor

Kith meat + troll meat = Health restore per second - Burn armor penalty

Kith meat + goblins(small lizardlike creatures) = + Action speed - Armor

Kith meat + bones = + Armor - Recovery speed

Kith meat + ogre meat = + Might and Penetration - Intellect - Will

Kith meat + spirit essense = + Intellect +Accuracy with Will attacks - Constitution

 

Additionally instead of +1 Rage cost I would change negative on Corpse eaters to 'get no bonuses from regular food' and overall -1 Power level penalty. Consume flesh instead of restoring 3 Rage points would restore 2 points and give stacking +1 Power level bonus.

Edited June 9, 2018 by ErlKing

[mammasaura]

 

Berserker can't upgrade to spirit line, can only upgrade to blood frenzy.

 

I guess you're proposing blood line for mage slayer in order to keep frenzy up to compensate the debuff duration.

There's not such debuff on mage slayer since the release.

I agree mage slayer should take blood line, mainly if dots can proc interrupt on a spell disruption debuff, but need to test.

That is not correct. It was just an UI glitch during character creation. Berserkers can pick the same abilites as any other barbarian (just made a screenshot of my Devoted/Berserker's level up page):

 

 

 

Thanks, my apologies :D

 

For corpse eater: depends on the type of build.

You need to keep in consideration also how much resource of rage you have at disposal. At the beginning you don't have much, my multiclass barb at level 10 has a pool of 6. I can play aggressive burning Wild Sprint + Frenzy and see how it comes, then I have an option for Barbaric Blow or Savage Defiance, and then again a Frenzy in the latter case. Then, I'm done hoping to have brought a sensible advantage.

 

 

Seems Corpse Eater could be better but its opening can't be that explosive or you run out of resource before having an opportunity to replenish. At that level with that pool you probably need another martial class to support the aggressiveness in melee or you need to play a much more control/support role, probably without frenzy but with "Barbaric Shout".

 

With a bigger resource pool shouldn't be a problem in playing aggressive, but maybe Corpse Eater isn't supposed to play in that way, but to support the other class in the earlier levels.

Edited June 9, 2018 by mammasaura

[Boeroer]

I would have liked it more if Corpse Eaters would just have consumed essence from nearby corpses passively "on the fly" and gaining resources back (at a more modest pace of course). Then you wouldn't have to fiddle around with Flesh Communion.

[letmeseethatpicture]

Multiclassing a berserker/streetfighter and I was worried about Staggered possibly removing the Persistent Distraction debuff by interrupting engagement, but turns out the character just re-engages and Persistent Distraction is applied while the mob is still staggered.

So there you go, another reason to choose Spirit over Blood.

[KDubya]

The problem with Corpse Eater in my opinion is the time required to eat, its like 3 sec with 4 sec recovery. To pay off you'd need to eat 2+ times in a fight just to get back the extra cost for your basic power usage. Knock that time down to the equivalent of a weapon swing and it becomes a tactical choice.

 

The Mage Slayer is a lot better than people are giving it credit for. I'm rolling with a Mage Slayer/ Shattered Pillar morning star user and he'd doing well on PotD. At least for Monks the mage Slayer works better than a Berserker as the main benefit of better penetration is available via Thunderous Blows and the better constitution buff is also available from Savage Defiance. So with that in mind the berserker just brings downsides via self damage, a blocked health bar, and confusion (which can be blocked at later levels but is a real pain in the early game and takes an action to fix and possibly an ability pick)

 

The Mage Disruption and Spell Resistance are pretty useful. No potions or scrolls just means you need to invest in Athletics. 

 

 

 

EDIT - on topic of Spirit vs Blood I always get Spirit. The second level upgrade with stagger on hit is a lot better than some minor raw damage bleed. I'm not sure how long the blood tier three upgrade extends Frenzy but the Spirit Tornado looks cool and terrifies everyone which is also very cool.

 

Also why is the Barbarian's replenish-able rage on kill both a 50/50 chance and gated behind power level eight while the paladin gets automatic zeal on kill at power level seven?

Edited June 9, 2018 by KDubya