RE: Ending, Berath's Herald, Lack of Consequence with the Gods

[Aridea]

question: Does urging the Gods to do something during those meeting with them...does Berath say anything? 

 

Well, Berath just gets annoyed with the Watcher and tells everyone the same thing, that they will take time. She seems to be the final word on everything.

Btw did I get the feeling right that other gods are afraid of Rymrgand? Or rather, don't want to mess with him?

Are some gods more powerful than the others? Because the power struggles between them seem oddly disproportionate.

[morhilane]

Btw did I get the feeling right that other gods are afraid of Rymrgand? Or rather, don't want to mess with him?

 

Are some gods more powerful than the others? Because the power struggles between them seem oddly disproportionate.

 

According to the lore, the others gods do fear Rymrgand.

 

They are all supposed to be equals according to Eothas, so...who knows.

[AndreaColombo]

In PoE2, Berath sure behaves like she's in charge and the others don't seem to challenge the notion.

[fortuntek]

There's an island in the far East with skaenites on it that gave me an Effigy of Skaen one time use summon. They referenced my choice to use the blood pool and supporting Skaen as the reason but I bet if you betrayed Skaen they'd have some consequence for you if you run into them.

 

I'm very curious but I haven't tried the Effigy summon yet but I'm hoping it's powerful.

[Aridea]

Well if you give the souls to Berath in the first game, she gives you her bell in the second. Its a pretty cool item.

 

I wonder what others do...

Galawain def doesn’t do a thing. I don’t even remember if he aknowledges that the souls went to strengthen Dyrwood.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Aridea

[morhilane]

Well if you give the souls to Berath in the first game, she gives you her bell in the second. Its a pretty cool item.

 

I wonder what others do...

Galawain def doesn’t do a thing. I don’t even remember if he aknowledges that the souls went to strengthen Dyrwood.

 

Hylea gives you a cake. 

Skaen's followers gives you an Effigy summon item (1 time use I think) in a text encounter on one of the island.

Galawain gives Edér +5 HP and "nerf" the Ashen Maw dragon(? I read that on reddit).

 

Rymrgand I have no idea...I know what is "curse" is though.

[E.RedMark]

what about that scene ? close to the ending..where you can take your soul..or tell the soul to stay behind...

 

what happen if you tell your soul to stay behind..do you die?

[GamerSerg]

At one point the gods mention that by the time they had even a hint of what Eothas was up to, it was already too late to stop him.  The only hope they have is that the Watcher is the only person who Eothas might listen to so no matter how much you disobey or disrespect them they don't want to punish or stop the watcher as they need you to reach Eothas and hopefully change his mind.  Even if you flat out say that you support Eothas in breaking the wheel, all they can do is try to persuade you to change your mind or at least convince you that when the wheel is rebuilt they should be allowed to continue to siphon essence.  Attacking or punishing you would probably make you more likely to go against their wishes or convince you that the world is better off without them.  They need you more than you need them.

[Katarack21]

 

That doesn't really make any sense. If Berath was in cahoots with Eothas, her best option is to do nothing.

 

Granted that's exactly the same as what she did, but that's a problem with the story, not a plot point.

 

Personally I want to see the rationale as to why the statue is immune to explosions and lava. Or even cannons. It was hand-carved by people, it isn't indestructible.

Also, why can't the other gods use adra then? I kinda don't buy they are more reluctant to waste kith souls than Eothas is. Isn't Hylea also goddess of all creatures of the sky, inlcuding dragons? And there are hints at mutated mammoth sea beasts that have something to do with Galawain at some point (which was under water).

Those mutated giant sea creatures are the krakens, giant sea serpents, etc. that make passage in the Deadfire and east of it so dangerous. Galawain didn't make them; the Engwithans did, it's all in the murals and records of the place when you explore it. Galawain "adopted" them as basically the biggest and baddest of the creatures of the sea.

[Nixl]

At one point the gods mention that by the time they had even a hint of what Eothas was up to, it was already too late to stop him.  The only hope they have is that the Watcher is the only person who Eothas might listen to so no matter how much you disobey or disrespect them they don't want to punish or stop the watcher as they need you to reach Eothas and hopefully change his mind.  Even if you flat out say that you support Eothas in breaking the wheel, all they can do is try to persuade you to change your mind or at least convince you that when the wheel is rebuilt they should be allowed to continue to siphon essence.  Attacking or punishing you would probably make you more likely to go against their wishes or convince you that the world is better off without them.  They need you more than you need them.

I understand your reasoning, but I still would expect Skaen, Woedica, or even Berath to put pressure on you in some form, such as trying to put the Watcher in enough pain or fear to comply.  For example, if Magran is willing to erupt a volcano or Ondra is willing to conjure a massive tsunami, I imagine the gods would have no issue with threatening the Deadfire/Eora with natural disaster unless the Watcher complied.  If I recall correctly, the Gods were rather brutal and indifferent to the suffering of "kith."

 

Furthermore, such a vindictive response also would match the natural disasters caused by the gods in PoE1, if the Watcher broke an oath with a god with respect to the souls.  If I recall correctly, they were more than willing to harm innocent people to vent their anger and/or teach the watcher a lesson.  Hence, I was expecting more out of the gods.  

[Aridea]

I understand your reasoning, but I still would expect Skaen, Woedica, or even Berath to put pressure on you in some form, such as trying to put the Watcher in enough pain or fear to comply.  For example, if Magran is willing to erupt a volcano or Ondra is willing to conjure a massive tsunami, I imagine the gods would have no issue with threatening the Deadfire/Eora with natural disaster unless the Watcher complied.  If I recall correctly, the Gods were rather brutal and indifferent to the suffering of "kith."

 

But they do.

You are only alive because of Berath. That chime she put in your chest? That is what keeping the Watcher alive. Not going after Eothas means the Watcher will die, as shown in that first conversation where you have the option to return to the Wheel. Berath reminds you about it later in the game too. Granted there is no option to tell them eff off so she would kill the Watcher in later stages. But I kinda view it ais the gods got too worried about Eothas so they can't lose their only agent. 

I've said it in couple of other threads but the only thing to bring more urgency to the quest would be to make it a timed quest, as in for example if you lag too behind Eothas you will suffer personal penalties, or again someone will die (like your village back in Fallout if you don't bring the water chip in time). But people don't like restrictions, timed quests, or other mechanics that make them suffer more than necessary. The first pillars had illusion of urgency because the map opened up as you progressed the story, the only difference here is that the entire map is open to you from the start.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Aridea

[morhilane]

 

At one point the gods mention that by the time they had even a hint of what Eothas was up to, it was already too late to stop him.  The only hope they have is that the Watcher is the only person who Eothas might listen to so no matter how much you disobey or disrespect them they don't want to punish or stop the watcher as they need you to reach Eothas and hopefully change his mind.  Even if you flat out say that you support Eothas in breaking the wheel, all they can do is try to persuade you to change your mind or at least convince you that when the wheel is rebuilt they should be allowed to continue to siphon essence.  Attacking or punishing you would probably make you more likely to go against their wishes or convince you that the world is better off without them.  They need you more than you need them.

I understand your reasoning, but I still would expect Skaen, Woedica, or even Berath to put pressure on you in some form, such as trying to put the Watcher in enough pain or fear to comply.  For example, if Magran is willing to erupt a volcano or Ondra is willing to conjure a massive tsunami, I imagine the gods would have no issue with threatening the Deadfire/Eora with natural disaster unless the Watcher complied.  If I recall correctly, the Gods were rather brutal and indifferent to the suffering of "kith."

 

Furthermore, such a vindictive response also would match the natural disasters caused by the gods in PoE1, if the Watcher broke an oath with a god with respect to the souls.  If I recall correctly, they were more than willing to harm innocent people to vent their anger and/or teach the watcher a lesson.  Hence, I was expecting more out of the gods.  

 

 

Woedica tried to kill me once and Berath stopped her. I'm not sure how Berath's blackmail them, but they clearly don't want to cross Berath too much.

[Tarlonniel]

Rymrgand will kill you. He doesn't care if Berath will be pissed off.

[Katarack21]

Rymrgand will kill you. He doesn't care if Berath will be pissed off.

Well first he threatens you. Then if you keep being an ass he just kills you and goes on with his life.

[morhilane]

 

Rymrgand will kill you. He doesn't care if Berath will be pissed off.

Well first he threatens you. Then if you keep being an ass he just kills you and goes on with his life.

 

How many time do you have to tell him to "do it" before he does? I had the options like 5 times while talking to him.

 

Also, Rymrgand wants Eothas to succeed, I'm kinda surprised he didn't  interfere more (but he's the first DLCs so). His suggestion is also the best ending.

Edited May 23, 2018 by morhilane

[Katarack21]

 

 

Rymrgand will kill you. He doesn't care if Berath will be pissed off.

Well first he threatens you. Then if you keep being an ass he just kills you and goes on with his life.

 

How many time do you have to tell him to "do it" before he does? I had the options like 5 times while talking to him.

 

Also, Rymrgand wants Eothas to succeed, I'm kinda surprised he didn't  interfere more (but he's the first DLCs so). His suggestion is also the best ending.

 

Twice. Do it once and he let's it pass, a second time and you're dead.

[Aridea]

Twice. Do it once and he let's it pass, a second time and you're dead.

 

That's actually really cool. I never tried it, but its good to know the option is there.

[flamesium]

The biggest problem with the end stages is the lack of consistency. One minute destroying The Wheel will lead to the death of everything (as Rymrgand daydreams about) and therefore Eothas has to be stopped whatever the cost, then it becomes one generation of souls will be trapped (ok, still bad but somewhat less severe), then by the end some of the Gods are like whatever, I guess we’ll figure something out.

 

That level of ambiguity would be ok if they were deliberately trying to mislead you for their own ends, but it felt more like the writers just weren’t clear themselves.

 

At no point (at least that I saw) are you given the opportunity to ask the most obvious question: “Sooo... how did life exist before the Engwithans built The Wheel? Why won’t the world just go back to however life existed naturally?”

 

It’s fine if the Gods don’t know or won’t tell the answer and you are left to speculate whether the Engwithans broke the natural life cycle when they made The Wheel, or if they created The Wheel *because* the natural life cycle was failing, but surely your character would at least ask.

 

Either way the implication for almost all of the endings seems to be that The Wheel will simply be rebuilt. There may or may not be a worldwide hollowborn crisis in the meantime, depending on whether or not life (with souls) can propagate naturally on Eora, which should become apparent literally as soon as any babies are born anywhere. The answer to that would be known well within the scope of the ending slides, and would determine whether the breaking of The Wheel is the biggest deal ever or not really that big a deal after all.

[divx]

At no point (at least that I saw) are you given the opportunity to ask the most obvious question: “Sooo... how did life exist before the Engwithans built The Wheel? Why won’t the world just go back to however life existed naturally?”

 

Josh Sawyer said that this was originally in one of the conversations with Eothas, but it was removed because it disrupted the flow of the conversation. 

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/174058952291/so-is-the-idea-that-before-the-wheel

[FecklessFool]

 

At no point (at least that I saw) are you given the opportunity to ask the most obvious question: “Sooo... how did life exist before the Engwithans built The Wheel? Why won’t the world just go back to however life existed naturally?”

 

Josh Sawyer said that this was originally in one of the conversations with Eothas, but it was removed because it disrupted the flow of the conversation. 

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/174058952291/so-is-the-idea-that-before-the-wheel

 

And how long / detailed was this conversation? How many responses does the Watcher get in? Because if it's very long, then I guess they could cut vital information, but if the Watcher only got around 3 or so responses in, well that seems a  bit strange to cut vital information out.