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  1. We have been given a lot of info on how Stealth work outside of combat, but I don't recall any specifics about how would it work during combat(i.e. rouge hide in shadows), I don't suppose its a non-combat skill only so any thoughts? We have the alertness states (creatures will investigate if you move in too close and cry out an alert and attack if they find you) maybe they will play a role during combat as well e.g. alerted/engaged creatures will have an increase detection radius and thus far harder to fool. Or maybe there will be a check for entering stealth during combat, because if now everyone can sneak, then it will be too simple to just pull a Houdini during combat and or troll path finding with the act.
  2. Hi everyone I;m new to the forum and I hope I can contribute my thoughts to help Project Eternity in the best way possible. I've just watched the latest update **Water, Trees, Day/Night, Lighting... All That Jazz**, and i think it was fantastic. This is a huge step towards my most anticipated game since the realease of BG2 SOA. Lighting is something that I have a particular interest in. Nearly all games, including many of 2013's, havnt had very realistic lighting mechanics that work how light does in real life. This is the use of shadows and night lighting. The use of shadows and realistic night lighting wont just make the game have a realistic aesthetic, but will open a whole new area of game play. I have a few sugestions that I hope can help. Shadows I noticed in the most receint video update, the shadows stayed in place even though the sun set and eventually the moon came out it would be cool if these shadows can move while the suns position changes, this would make a more realistic feel, and certain areas would gain shadows during certain times of the daty and night. Night lighting (Mechanical and Magical) The main aspect I would like added, is realisiic night lighting, and how un-natural shadows from mechanical or magical lighting, effect the environment around the character(s) Let me explain how it works in real life. Say you are walking down the street after leaving a friends house. There are stree lamps to your left and right creating un-natural lighting so you can see where you are walking. However your eyes have naturally adjusted to the lighting you are looking at. So if you look away from the area litten up, and into a dark alley, your eyes take a certain amout of time to adjust and see what is ahead. So basically, you have a shorter sight while in the light and you almost walk blind into certain areas waiting for your eyes to adjust. This is an aspect i would love added to the game. As I mentioned earlier this would add certain gameplay aspects to project eternity. - It would be great to walk down a street and not be able to see what is in an alleyway unless i casted a spell of light into it or had a torch. - Certain characters could perform perfect assinations from dark areas and not be seen for a few seconds, giving valuable time to escape. - When camping in the wilderness you should have to have your characters face away from the camp fire to gain maximum vision incase you get attacked during the night by bandits or wild monsters. - Your *sneak/stealth* stats increases should you paint you're armour black while in the city at night. Or should you muddy you're armour and attach leaves during the day in the wilderness. This is just a few of the gameplay aspects I thought of in relation to realistic night lighting. I hope this is a valid sugestion. Please leave your comments and/or sugestions that could be added. Thanks alot Cheers, Bhaal_Spawn
  3. It would be great if someone could shed some light on how Obsidian plans to incorporate this aspect in the game. I always roll a thief/assassin character in cRPGs and I am curious how it will turn out to be in PE. IMHO, BG2 had a very satisfying feel for the assassin - picking the right tools, items and skills, you could one-shot very hard foes before they got a chance to react. After that, you were kind of useless unless you had invisibility potions or items to do another stab, or it was running in the fog to re-stealth. The principle was very good and mostly satisfying but there were some pitfalls PE could learn from - first off, the one that most developers fail at - backstabing being based on weapon base damage / all weapons are equally good at stabbing. This must be avoided as a Staff of the Ram with huge base damage is an optimal backstabbing weapon no matter what. Instead, there should be a hefty bonus for daggers/short swords to make them the ideal weapon for such things. Dual-wielding should also amplify the backstabbing capabilities but should also have drawbacks compared to one-hand attacks. That said, a mace/sword rogue should definitely be a viable path and could have more consistent damage during combat as opposed to daggers that do a big initial burst but then perform worse as the clash stretches out. Another very important part is stealth and the mechanics surrounding it. I believe it's a consensus that the visual/audio hiding/checking should be merged into one, as no one would max one and leave the other low because that would still make sneaking impossible. Trying to go into stealth and "failing" was also mind boggling during the stages where your sneaking wasn't that good, requiring you to just sit there a couple of turns until you finally enter successful, so I think every attempt should be successful, it's just that lower levels would require you to be slower and more prone to detection. Visual cones is something that should definitely affect sneaking, as should walls and items that block vision (like in BG2). It shouldn't be too complicated though, a simple flat detection bonus should be applied if you are sneaking in front of someone as opposed to being behind them. Naturally, distance would factor in a lot as well. Anyway, I'll add more thoughts tomorrow, but feel free to add in or comment
  4. Since the Degenerate Gameplay thread is starting to... degenerate, I thought I'd raise one substantial point that came up in it. For those who missed the fun, background. It's been established that P:E will only have quest XP, rather than combat XP (à la Infinity Engine) or XP for doing things (à la KOTOR1/2). One substantive objection has been raised about this: "Assuming that combat consumes resources and stealth/non-combat doesn't, won't this create a systemic incentive for avoiding combat?" The answer to that objection is "Yes, it does," of course. And that would be bad, not to mention contrary to Josh Sawyer's explicitly stated design goal of crafting a system that does not systematically favor any approach over others. Which is why I think the problem should be addressed. For example, you could have minor loot drops that would roughly compensate for typical resources used to win that combat. Or you could impose resource costs on stealth and other non-combat activities. Here's a sketch for a stealth system with resource costs, as an example of how it could be done. 1 Moving while stealthed uses stamina. It regenerates when standing still. 2 Any character can enter stealth mode. 3 Any stealthed character has a chance of being spotted. 4 Heavy armor makes you easier to spot and increases the stamina cost. 5 Being a rogue or adding points to your sneak skill will make you harder to spot and will reduce the stamina cost of stealth. 6 Consumables exist to temporarily boost your sneak skill. These are used up when consumed. 7 Magic exists to temporarily boost your stealth. These take up your spell-caster's spell-casting capability. 8 Sneak buffs are incompatible with combat buffs. Use one, lose the other. Consequence: a party who decides to sneak through an enemy-infested area will have to do it pretty carefully. They'll trade off combat spells for stealth spells (7), have to acquire and use sneak buffs (6), forego combat buffs [8], and have to use light rather than heavy armor (4). Since they're avoiding combat, the cost of failure is very high -- if they're spotted (3), they'll very likely be in a tactically poor position, low on stamina (1), lightly armored (4), and un-buffed for combat [8]. If implemented this way, would stealth still sound like the systemically favored way to solve problems? If so, why? Would this kind of system be fun to play? Why or why not? Any other ideas? Discuss.
  5. During pause, being able to cast a spell or have an UI mechanic that let's you [scry] the battle outcome. Being able to move characters in a sort of "Directive" mode. 1. There's 3 guards ahead 2. Pause 3. In Ghost-Form, you move up your Rogue 4. Enemy Ghost-Forms notice you~Ghost-Form dissolves. Still in Pause, if Enemy Ghost Form doesn't notice you go to (6). 5a. If Ghost-Form could be used as an ability: Twice a day use or Once a day. 5b. If Ghost-Form could be used abundantly, start over at "3". 6. Continue with the Ghost-Form through the level until you get noticed. What this allows for is, the player can go about "Will I be detected if I go this path?" during quests and would be less time consuming than "Save+Reload" (Loading screen when you reload). Send forward your Rogue in Ghost-Form, and the enemies also has Ghost-Forms that reacts in this [Paused] Ghost-Mode without consequence (except time consuming). I think this could be a great tool for a stealth approach, being able to see what will happen if you go into a certain direction. Finally when you've found a successful path forward, un-pause, and now it comes to the test of actually doing it. Generally, I think it could help in a "Collective" Scout Mode for any class/race and help in a stealth approach a lot as well with some sort of harmless scout mode. The only thing I could think of was this "Ghost" thing.
  6. First off, let me apologize for not having pictures to explain what I mean. I tried doing screenshots but somehow they came out all garbly, and online I cannot find examples of what I wished to demonstrate. So, Commandos is an isometric game of a different sort, for those who haven't played or heard of it, you play an elite group of special forces during the second world war, each with their own specializations. Never is your team greater than six members, so in many ways, it has some overlap with the IE games. Despite not being a RPG. I bring this up because I believe stealth is done pretty well in Commandos, and with a few minor tweaks could actually be pretty well implemented in P:E. If you cheat in commandos, as I was prone to when I was younger, you had the option to "trace" the enemy's observation. This involved a few things First you had line of sight, a cone moving outwards from every npc, divided into two parts, a part nearby where anything could be seen and a part far off where you could be observed if you were standing up. Enemies could also see tracks left in snow, though these disappeared after a while. Then, there was something you could only see if you cheated, which was your sound signature. Different weapons had different signatures, but all of them were basically a radius around the player, whenever they were fired. If you moved at speed, your movement had a sound radius as well. enemies within the radius of the sounds would become alerted to it. they would shout out in alarm, which had it's own (rather large) sound radius, but if they were isolated this would not be too troublesome So commandos worked by sneaking towards enemies, dealing with them one by one, moving corpses out of the path of patrolling enemies. Or if the fancy struck you, by ignoring them and using your observation skills to bypass them without leaving a trace. I don't see why this system couldn't be implemented in P:E. Your Stealth skill could affect the range of your enemies observation skills (visually) or perhaps their sight cone could be divided up into pieces, the more stealthily you are, the more parts of the cone you could enter without being spotted. Vice versa, observation skills could increase the sight cone of enemy NPC's, those with tracking skills would be better at observing footprints left behind by your team (and you might see enemy footprints based on their distance to you, and the time since an npc walked past.) I think this would make stealth immensely more dynamic, and would make it a skill where the levels you had in it would change the challenge, but never eliminate it. You couldn't just walk in front of some dude, so you would have to keep paying attention to their movements and positions. and their patrol routes. Skill in move silently would decrease the sound radius/signature you have. A "silent running feat" would make your running sound signature whatever your walking sound signature is. Armour would affect this too. so you could be a stealth character with heavy(loud) armor, but this means you'd have to avoid enemies at greater distance (rather than just have a stealth check fail) and walk slower. Different enemies might have different ways to spot you, some being excellent listeners (their hearing range has to overlap your sound signature in order for them to notice your sounds) Dogs could use scent, seeing where you've been (but this would evaporate over time, quicker outside than inside, and not through some obstacles.) Spotters could have narrow but long vision cones, Guards could have short but wide ones. I think this would create gradients of stealthplay, where it isn't a simple pass or fail check whether or not stealth succeeds. You'll still have to play and pay attention. Your bulky barbarian can still sneak, it's just much harder for him because he'll get spotted much easier. And most importantly, getting spotted doesn't have to alert the entire base to your presence, which means that if you enjoy stealth, you're not forced to instantly reload. (I imagine some alarms could trigger everyone to go on high alert) Oh, and no "must have been nothing" nonsense. An enemy alert isn't going to back down quickly. - Finally, I think this is fairly easy to implement. Sight cones can be stuck to characters' orientation. The shape of them to their class(or role), the size of them to their observation skills (linked to a numerical value, so that things like equipment and skill can affect it) And what they can spot (tracks, movement within distance x , stationary within distance y) while stealth abilities will allow you to move the range of either enemy observation skills, or decrease the range of your signals. Also for weapons some make noise, some might have a noise radius where they impact while others have a noise radius where they come from. Sorry for the rather poorly worded idea. maybe I'll format it better later (don't count on it) --- TL;DR: an idea to make stealth more dynamic by making skills for stealth and observation work in gradients
  7. I think you know what I'm getting at. I've always enjoyed roleplaying sneaky characters, social during the day, busy during the night But travelling with a party means that the options for using stealth effectively are minimal (unless you can somehow have 6 stealthy characters ninjaing through everything) Stealth is usually a single person job. I like roleplaying a lot, and combat is actually one of the things I care little for. however, in many ways it is often unwise to avoid combat. combat gives xp, xp goooood. I was wondering if the team has thought of this, and what they would propose to do in order to make stealth a fun part of the game, and not a gimmick. Or perhaps will they do away with it entire? (I surely hope not) My suggestion would be something like having multipart missions, where you have to have a team of characters each at their own place. this way every character in the party gets a moment to shine. it's the stealth characters job to enter the castle through the sewers, get the the gate room and kitchen room, and poison guards (secondary) and open the gate. I enjoyed in baldurs gate II the thieves' guild tests, sort of an obstacle course for the thief, but that too is a job alone. What are your thoughts, perhaps letting a party survive on the highest character's stealth? that would bring it's own issues. I'm curious what ideas you may have.
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