demeisen

Hi, First, thanks a lot to the folks who worked on making the Linux beta available. This is really great . I've spent a few hours with it, up until I got blocked by one semi-major bug (described in #2 below). Feedback so far: The game is running pretty well (modulo bugs below). No crashes, and performance is fine. [bug, save, major] - [Confirmed fixed in 3.0984] I've made a few saves, and the early ones load OK and restore their state as expected. The last two, however, show the character creation GUI after I load them. This temporarily blocked me from continuing. I'll attach one of those as badsave.zip. The same happens with the "Continue" button from the main menu. [Feedback, Writing] Even being a beta, the world is nicely immersive, as far as I managed to see before stopping due to #2 above. Props to the writers. The mute woman in the initial city with the drum, for example - I have no idea if she's part of a plot or merely a background NPC, but the interaction was poignant, yet pleasant. It's not easy to do this stuff well, but my initial feeling is that the emotional tone of the world bodes well for the final game. [bug, UI, minor] [Confirmed fixed in 3.0984] In the auto-pause options, there are two "Low Health" checkboxes. Unclear how or whether they differ. The hover-text is identical. See attachment LowHealth.jpg [bux, Gfx, medium] [Confirmed fixed in 3.0984] Just after entering the game, if I pan the view around, there's a stripe where some rock appears where water should be. The width of the stripe changes as I pan. I've attached two screenshots of this effect. It appears to be either graphics from elsewhere in the scene, or possibly from another rendering layer. See attachments GfxGlitch-1.jpg and GfxGlitch-2.jpg, both of the same effect, but showing how it changes with panning. My glxinfo output is attached as glxinfo.zip. [bug, UI, medium] If I rebind keys, it almost seems like they perform both the action I rebound them to, and some other action. For example, I've bound "Highlight Interactables" to keypad num5. Pressing it indeed highlights interactables, but it also de-selects all but one character. That doesn't happen if I bind H.I. to another key. Also, if I map H.I. to keypad num0, then it both highlights interactables and changes the game to doublespeed. [uI, minor] The character creation hover-text works for some attributes, but not all. E.g, there's no hover-text for dexterity on the Godlike screen, or Strength for Orlans, but others work. [Feedback, UI] Tentatively, I like the presentation of the character creation and level-up GUIs. [Feedback, Art] Art direction is always in the eye of the beholder, but I have to call DF out as being gorgeous. POE1 was already very pretty, and this has raised the bar. Deadfire may well be the nicest looking CRPG world I've seen, and by that I mean artistically so, not merely the kind of drenched-in-post-processing-effects nice that AAA games tend to have. It's got a kind of honesty to its prettiness. My one feedback here is: I think the game is already up against the limit of how much palette saturation looks good. Any more and it'd be too cartoonish. Even a touch less might be good. That aside, incredible job by the artists and gfx programmers. There are tons of nice touches: specular highlights from bits of rock, wave refractions, the new environmental effects, and the way heavier boats bob slower in the water than lighter ones. I'm in love with the world already. [Feedback, Mechanics] I'm kind of heartbroken by what's happened to wizards, though admittedly I'm not very far along given my save-game issue above. I won't belabor the points made in other threads, but at least I really hope you'll consider relaxing the restrictions around user-selected spell loadouts which aren't just the grimoire preselections. Inability to pick my own combinations feels hugely stifling. Some of the casting times look excessively long, too. Given how much I love the Pillars world (see #3 and #9 above), this is a really rough one for me. I always play wizard mains in CRPGs, and the POE2 semi-Vancian-class changes are ripping my heart out . [uI, minor] When entering the Subclass Selection screen for wizard, "No Subclass" was pre-selected, which is fine, but the right pane description doesn't appear. Neither does it appear if I re-click "No Subclass". However, selecting any other option such as Evoker, and then moving back to "No Subclass" makes it appear. Minor thing, but it should probably be there upon entry to Subclass Selection. Some people may never see it otherwise, if they accept the default. [Feedback, System] I have a multi-mon config, and the game properly launched on my main monitor. I've seen other Unity games insist on launching on the first enumerated monitor, which for me is a tiny little side monitor. Kudos for getting this right . badsave.zip glxinfo.zip

​​ ​ ​Yay! Thanks for not forgetting about us! ​

​ ​ ​It's up on GOG now . As another data point: I'm not seeing the crash that lew21 is above. My system details: DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu DISTRIB_RELEASE=16.04 DISTRIB_CODENAME=xenial DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS" No crashes so far (up to the char creation screen) with installer "pillars_of_eternity_ii_deadfire_en_0_0_0_0021_backer_beta_release_2_0886_bb_17293.sh" ​ Props for making it available.

​ ​Wow! Thanks a ton to the people who made that happen. ​ ​GOG is still showing "0 MB" for me on all the options, but hopefully that's just a matter of things getting through the pipeline. ​

​ ​I have a perfectly rational hatred . ​ ​Seriously though, I'm trying not to get my hopes up too much, but... it'd be awesome indeed if a Linux beta appears. Especially if it's on GOG too. ​

​ While I realize why Josh's argument might be a valid goal from one POV, ​I'm not a fan of that line of reasoning. Much of the magic of POE1 for me (and I think many others too) was that it didn't go down that "most people" mass-market road. It was faithful to the often complex spirit of classic RPGs, while legitimately improving UI clunkiness and dynamics that legit needed improving. What the above argument classifies as "too much for most people to process", others see as the very core appeal of the class, bringing interest, situational flexibility from a large spell catalog (even if only partially available at any given time - another level of interest), and satisfying mechanics differences relative to other classes. It had a different vibe to it that's being eroded now. ​ ​I'm not too happy with the new direction. It admittedly seems consistent with Josh's argument above. I just don't feel like it's an improvement, and it significantly alters the feel of the Vancian-ish classes in a way that gives me too much of an "action RPG" vibe. ​

Agreed, it (mostly) isn't... which I think is a mistake and irredeemably damages one of the most important aspects of the RPG experience. I understand the whole gaming world has gone this direction, so there's little choice now if they want a commercially viable game. However, I hope for a new-game option, akin to the permadeath checkbox in POE1, to restore some resource based gameplay. (I don't think food bonuses suffice for this).

​ ​IMO, that is a slight improvement on the current scheme, but still not as good as the POE1 system was, which itself wasn't perfect, but was okay. There needs to be a cost to taking combat damage even if you don't get knocked out. ​ ​Also, I think if they want the player to not rest spam, the way to do that is... limit resting. I don't think the loss of some food bonuses will deliver much meaningful pressure. Maybe make lower difficulties rest-spammable, and higher ones rest-limited (not just "hike back to an inn" pseudo-limited, but a real limitation which may put the player's back to the wall sometimes). ​

Pretty much agreed. I agree the wound system doesn't cut it as (in your terms) punishment for mismanagement. Also agreed there should be a cost, and that today (and kind of, in POE1 as well) there isn't. I'd be OK with your multiple wounds idea where you accrue them by taking damage, or just the simple and obvious thing: non-auto-regenerating health (or a split pool) plus hard-limited resting and resources, so you are pressured into playing well over time. And yeah... totally with you about that extra dimension to adventuring, which to me is an essential component of RPGs. The best older 80's era RPGs had it bigtime. Sadly, that dynamic of managing an adventure, not just a single fight at a time, is all but extinct. I suspect the only faint hope is a game option (or a community mod?), so the majority can have their preference. But even that entails extra balancing and testing work.

​​ I think unlimited resting is the underlying cause of a lot of problems, but ​if they don't provide it, too many will complain. POE1's attempted compromise was a soft cap, but players complained about hiking back to an inn after every fight even though there was no need to do that, since resting supplies were found in abundance. You couldn't even carry all the camp supplies you found, so in practice it was unlimited even if you didn't keep hiking back to inns. ​ I would rather see a hard rest cap, plus a new-game checkbox to allow rest-spam for the players who want that. It's not the unlimited nature itself which is the problem (you can always just ... not rest), it's the evisceration of other gameplay mechanics and encounter designs that it compels. You can avoid resting, but you can't avoid the destruction of other aspects of the game that result. ​

​ Simple solution: have them be out of character explanations that are toggleable in the options and, of course, are removed if playing on Expert mode. ​Brilliant. I like it. And there's already a handy Expert toggle for it. ​

Pretty spoiler free I think: ​ ​Don't click on the backer tombstone things. They're out of character for the game world and sort of break the immersion. Plus, they do not relate in any way to the game - they were just a backer perk. A lot of them are pretty juvenile. ("PeteTehHAMMER ROCKS!" and the like). ​ ​Otherwise... let's see. The game gets much easier as you go. The first act is the hardest. ​Don't be afraid to come back to things that seem too hard when you get to them. Sometimes you can come back after a level or two of doing other things, and that makes all the difference in the world. ​ ​If you plan to play the White March expansions, which I highly recommend coz they're good, buy it first since it couples itself into the middle of the game. It's best experienced as a natural part of game progression. ​ ​Enjoy the RPG! It stands up alongside the all time classics. ​

Just after the first POE1 release, some of the classes felt a bit weak to me (Rangers and Paladins come to mind), but most of that got improved quite a lot by subsequent patches. I hold with the "no classes are terrible now" school. Every class brings something good to the table. I used a Paladin main tank in a POTD run to great success: they felt great compared to the original release. Wizards have never been anything that could in any remote sense be called "useless" by the most inebriated observer in his most irrational moment. I worry about them for POE2 given I don't like some of the changes to their core mechanics, but it's still early beta, so hopefully improvements will be forthcoming. Chanters are also a great class in POE1. Extremely flexible. Used one as an secondary melee / CC to great success. Don't even start on Cyphers. Silly powerful.

​ ​ ​ ​If it's any consolation, you aren't the only one. I was confused at first too; I installed WM, started a new game, but wasn't sure how or when to get to it. Had to look it up online to make sure I hadn't missed something. ​ I love WM and think it was really nicely done all around, but also feel tying it into the middle of the game was a little bit awkward. ​ ​I think you'll like it, BTW. There's a lot of really nice content in the expansions. The only major drawback is you end up over-leveled for the remainder of the original game, but that was kind of true anyway... ​ Are you sure about being over leveled after we do White March? when I reached Helmshore for the first time, the game asked me if I wanted to adjust the level of the game on my own level (like when I reached White march the first time) .. May be it is something which have been added with the new updates ... Thinking of this, I should have done White March before entering Helmshore (the game would have adjusted the map level on mine), because I have done some quests in Heartsong, then I decided to do the White March I... ​Going a bit from memory, and everyone's experience might be different here, but I think I started WM (on PotD) as soon as I could, and hit the level cap maybe half way through WM. I found new "toys" (spells, soulbound weapons, etc), though, so it wasn't a totally static power situation either. Even at the level cap, WM was loads of fun, because there's a lot of interesting and challenging combats in the WM expansions. Once I returned to the main game, I used level scaling, but even then you end up utterly wrecking everything in your path. Act3 actually felt rather boring to me: I never had to use any spells or per-rest abilities except for - what are those called? - the low level ones you can spam per fight. There might have been a difficult boss fight or two, but for the most part, even with level scaling, I felt quite over-leveled and generally OP for the main game content. ​ ​It always felt to me like the game has too much total experience in it, especially if you do most of the optional side quests. I'd like the level curve to have you hitting the cap more like 3/4 of the way through the game, whereas I think it was more like 1/2 way for me. Far enough from the end to enjoy the cool high level class abilities for a while, but not so far that you end up with no more leveling to look forward to when you're barely half way through. ​ ​

It’s not about hand-holding per se, I think. It’s just you, as a player, is expected to do things others cannot. Which means that “it’s dangerous here, they are all dead” might as well say “adventurers are welcomed, please come right this moment”. Arguably, if you ignore the in-game hints, you sort of deserve what you get. Such warnings should be wordsmithed reasonably, of course. I'm not overly keen on the "protect players from themselves" school of thought, although I realize it is the expectation now.

Yeah, but do people really want the system to be that obviously clearcut? I'd rather have more complexity to it. That said, I do want some weapons to be better in some situations so the player has motivation to attack weaknesses and defend against strengths. I like penalties for getting it wrong... but not step-function penalties, as a general rule.

​ Yeah, ​I did too, so I certainly don't want to argue for anything too similar to what it had. I wanted very much to like Tyranny, and I tried to give it a fair shake, but it always felt too... not sure of the right words... oversimplified? Streamlined? Managed? I think the POE1 system had it all over Tyranny's. ​ ​Anyway, my preference still absolutely resides with either a POE1-like split pool, or failing that, a single non-auto-regenerating pool. But the most important thing for me is that there be long term considerations. The current injury and per-encounter ability system as it stands doesn't really cut it, IMO. ​ ​

That is a valid criticism, no doubt. I agree, that probably would happen, and people probably would complain. That notwithstanding, it doesn't seem like an NPC encounter that triggers the first time you approach dungeon X telling you that a party meaner than yours was killed in dungeon X should be an insurmountable obfuscation. It probably would be though: games have gotten to a point where players are no longer expected to observe the game world or consider in-world hints. Everything has to be spelled out. It's kind of sad for those of us who grew up playing games that weren't so hand-holdy and designed to appease that "wtf game is broken!!!one!" crowd. I'll just leave this here..

​I noticed on the overworld map, some areas say, "Above your level and will be hard to complete at this time". ​ ​I want to give a thumbs-up to this mechanic, and a small suggestion. I like that it provides an open-world feel, and you have the freedom to explore... if you dare. ​ ​My only suggestion would be to make the hints less 4th-wall-breaking. Instead of flat out talking about character levels in a GUI pop-up, I'd prefer in-world hints. Maybe you meet someone in the gateway town, or along the road, who looks you over and recommends via appropriate dialog that he thinks you'll meet your doom there ("The last group who went in there was equipped better than you lot appear to be, and they never came back out..."), or that you'll be in for a rough time but you might survive. Perhaps some hints could be environmental, rather than explicit, for variety. ​ ​The core idea is a good one, so kudos on that. ​

​ ​Agreed about it being too simplified, and too coarse-grained with only 4 levels. ​ While I'd like the former split health/endurance idea best, ​I think I could be OK with your proposed compromise if either (1) the health pool does not auto-regenerate after combat, or (2) you can gain injuries in normal combat without reaching 0 health. I'd like injuries to be more fine grained (maybe 8-10 levels?), and any combat damage should confer some risk of injury. Perhaps there's little injury risk if you stay over 75% health, 50-75% gives you a moderate risk, 25-50% even higher risk, and 0-25% a severe risk. That makes some RP sense too: the more banged up you get in battle, the higher the risk you have of sustaining a longer term injury. ​ ​I really feel combat needs to have some lasting cost to your party, or the game starts to feel too much like I'm playing some Diablo-esque "action RPG". ​

​​ Why do they buy them then? ​Speaking only for myself, quite a few reasons. Sometimes I just want to support a smaller 1-5 man studio doing something I think is pretty cool, even though I probably won't get into the game. Sometimes I think I'll like a game, and then it turns out I don't. Sometimes I fully intent to finish, but get distracted by something and don't get back to it. Sometimes I pick something up on a GOG sale super cheap and then forget I bought it. ​ ​I finish maybe 20% of the games I buy. I finished POE 3 times (hard, potd, and solo wiz potd). It's vanishingly rare I re-play a game even once, given real life time constraints. It has to be a bloody good game for that to happen. Probably only a handful of games have I ever played through 3 times (not counting trivially short ones like 1970's arcade games). ​ ​

Agreed with both items above. About the second, I agree that's probably the only solution, but even that is problematic for the reason you state: everyone wants to "feel elite" by maxing the difficulty, and then complain that the game is too hard. At the same time, there were just as many complaints about PotD being too *easy*, and if it's too easy, there's nothing else to step up to. I don't blame game studios: it's just an unfortunate reality of the era. The only solution I can see for that is to make it more obvious in the GUI. "Look, we really mean it!" For example: I'd like Hard be about what PotD is in POE1, and PotD to be about that increment again. A GUI might only expose the upper 1-2 difficulties if you click a box saying, "I know what I'm in for - please show me no mercy". One thing I give props to Obsidian for is that they didn't cheese PotD by simply making everything a massive damage sponge. Instead, they re-tuned encounters so you got more creatures to fight at once, and some harder subtypes in the mix. It felt so much better than games that simply adjust a damage multiplier, so that everything takes 398029223 hits to kill in a tedious slog. (There was a multiplier, IIRC, but a mild one that didn't give that annoying bullet-sponge feel). Nicely done on that front, Obsidian. It worked well, and I hope you'll use a similar approach for POE2. ​

​ I gave it a quick go, but it needs 64 bit WINE which turns out to be a bit of a headache and didn't pursue further. ​Makes sense. I think I have wine64 installed, but no idea if it's configured reasonably or could run it, and I don't quite have the motivation to mess with it. ​

​ ​If it's any consolation, you aren't the only one. I was confused at first too; I installed WM, started a new game, but wasn't sure how or when to get to it. Had to look it up online to make sure I hadn't missed something. ​ I love WM and think it was really nicely done all around, but also feel tying it into the middle of the game was a little bit awkward. ​ ​I think you'll like it, BTW. There's a lot of really nice content in the expansions. The only major drawback is you end up over-leveled for the remainder of the original game, but that was kind of true anyway... ​

I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but that'd be awesome, if true. I'm not nearly as dedicated as Boeroer to install a whole Windows OS just to get to the beta... Win10 falls right around "anesthetic-free dental fillings" on my list of enjoyable activities . ​ ​BTW, has anyone tried running it under Wine? Even if it didn't run particularly well, that might be a temporary solution. ​