JerekKruger

I'd say Weapon Focus should either be removed altogether (my preference) or moved to either Fighters or Rogues (or both). If it's universal it becomes a tax on characters who intend to use weapons and either all enemies are balanced around the assumption that you'll take it (and hence spell accuracy has to be rebalanced too) or it's very powerful. If it's left as specific to one class I really don't understand why that class would be the Barbarian. Barbarians in Pillars were somewhat defined by their lower accuracy: both lower than other pure martial classes and then even lower for Carnage*. It seems odd therefore to give Barbarians the accuracy bonus talent rather than Fighters or Rogues (both of whom have a strong claim on the weapon master role). *Admittedly Carnage eventually became very accurate due to the accuracy per level bonus to all abilities.

Tested it. I build a Barbarian/Monk with very high Perception and Constitution, low Might and played on Story Mode (maximising crits and my own survivability). Took Axe Proficiency and used the Console to give me Enervating Blows (you can't get it as a multiclass character in the beta as it's too high level). I also sacked the rest of my party so I was solo. I went and fought the Delemgan encounter north of the starting town. I hit and crit several carnage attacks but none of them affected their target with the axe modal* or enervating blows. Looks like Carnage no longer procs on hit effects. *The axe modal was on, I affected my main target with it several times.

Yeah, those would all be a lot easier

Most enchantments will still be in the game as I understand it, but we will be limited in how far we can upgrade them. So, for example, you might only be able to upgrade a Fine weapon to an Exceptional weapon, but not to Superb or Legendary. As for Lashes, it sounded like they would only exist as preexisting enchantments i.e. there would be weapons in game with Flaming Lashes but you wouldn't be able to add one to a weapon that doesn't start with one. The flip side of this was that lashes would be upgradeable, and there would likely be two (mutually exclusive) possible upgrades for each.

Any ideas for what a Fists modal might do?

I'll see if I can test it today. Of course, that'll require me to find a weapon that has an on hit property first.

Brilliant news. I might return to my idea of importing a Priest again with this change.

Ah yes but that's an appeal to feel, which is not rational, so you should be ashamed of yourself or something

That's strangely cool.

Now we just need those spells to actually hit

And in Deadfire that 15% is even less since, as far as I can tell, all summoned weapons have the same base damage as their mundane counterpart.

I hadn't even thought of that. I was only planning on doing it if he did anyway, but it'd be a cool touch if it worked that way (assuming we don't simply get universal multiclassing options for companions of course).

I'd love to multiclass him as a Priest of Eothas myself.

That assumes it's a bug which it's not clear that it is. Yes, it removes the main downside of the Berserker (they still hurt themselves whilst frenzied) but you have to invest a ability point into doing so which you otherwise might not. Also, once Penetration has been rebalanced the extra bonuses from the higher tier Inspirations won't be quite as powerful as they are now so the combo won't be either. Ah, in which case it's very much the same as Pillars I guess, which is fine. I had rather stupidly forgotten the recovery bonus that Frenzy gives and that, together with Frenzy's fast cast should leave it being useful even if there are other abilities that allow you to replicate the Might and Constitution Inspirations. Yeah I like it too, it's a very neat system. I like the fact that I can use Frenzy (and similar abilities) to counter Might and Constitution Afflictions. In fact that's somewhere the Inspiration aspect of Frenzy will remain useful even once higher tier Inspirations become available (on a Mountain Dwarf or Coastal Aumaua you can remove any Constitution or Might Affliction respectively, which is nice).

That's what makes Berserker/Paladin so good. Once you get Mental Fortress the Confusion is completely removed from their Frenzy.

Derp, how did I forget about that. As for the rest, hopefully it'll be fine I just realised that potentially the two inspirations would become redundant (particularly for the non-Berserker frenzy). Out of interest, did the Might and Constitution bonus of PoE's Frenzy stack with other bonuses? If not it's not all that different really.

I realise that. My point is simply that at some higher level it is very likely there will be Priest (or other class) spells which give those inspirations, possibly in an AoE, and at that point Berserker's Frenzy might become defunct. This potential problem applies much more to the Barbarian's Frenzy of course, since those are only tier 1 inspirations.

I'd be surprised if tier 2, and even tier 3, Might and Constitution Inspirations aren't available through higher level spells, albeit it probably not together. Also I was talking about both Frenzies: the Berserker one certainly seems less likely to become useless than the Barbarian one.

Technically not a beta build since you can't reach Mental Fortress as a multiclass character with the beta level cap, but it's a pretty awesome combination. I do hope Obsidian don't change the way it works. Of course, it's hard to tell how good it'll be in the full release. One thing that concerns me about the Barbarian's Frenzy (and, to a lesser extent, the Berserker's) is that the equivalent Might and Constitution Inspirations will be readily available via other sources. If that's the case, the ability might eventually be replaced: why use Frenzy when you can affect your entire party with a Priest spell, for example, that does the same thing for the entire party.

Something like Weapon and Shield Mastery? Sounds good to me. I assume Fighter's old Weapon Specialization and Weapon Mastery talents will remain unique to them so I can't see any reason why they shouldn't get similar abilities for weapon styles as well. Agreed, the resistance to affliction talents are, in my opinion, very powerful so probably shouldn't be universal, the bonus defence talents are much less so. I think (hope) that Bull's Will stacking with itself is a bug and that it will change so that you can only benefit from it (and pick it) once.

Well if it's any consolation, I do hope Obsidian do more than simply allow the Fighter to take weapon styles as both proficiencies and passives to make up for this change.

That's fine by me

Sure. I guess to be annoying I'll answer your question with another question: "why should Fighters get the ability to be more skillful at dual wielding when previously (in PoE) it was universal?" You're asking why Fighters are losing something but to me the question is why every other class lost it in the first place. As for why Wizards get to cast spells that Fighters don't: the same reason Fighters get stances, and knockdown and all their other abilities.

It could be, and maybe it even will be. Who knows what Obsidian will decide between now and the end of the beta. Why I don't think it should be boils down to the fact it wasn't in Pillars and that the Fighter does have plenty of abilities that other classes can't get access to. Also it's not clear to me that if only one class were to get these abilities why it should be the Fighter and not the Rogue. In the original class descriptions shock troops were described as being Rogues whereas Fighters were described as being unified by their focus on endurance and melee defence.

If Two-Weapon Style or Weapon and Shield Style were what made Fighters special, the class would have been pretty boring. Luckily it has other, more interesting and still unique abilities and passives that leave it interesting. It might need a little more love to make up for this but it's hardly been ruined.