Reveilled

Previously, he wanted to help people. That all changed when he fell, and he only wanted to help himself. And yes, he started good, and died good, but is irrelevant. I said he was evil to the core aside from one spot of good. Luke latched onto that, and the fact that they were father and son helped Luke turn Vader back to the light. But in between, he was evil. Anti-heroes don't blow up planets.

Evil for all the right reasons. Someone who is evil, but is evil because ultimately, they are trying to do good. Revan fell to the dark side because the only way s/he could see to save the republic. Since she would be unable to properly sieze power from the inside, she had to put herself at the head of the (Lesser) Sith Empire in order to conquer the Republic and prepare it for the attack by the True Sith Empire. And of course, one can't be the Dark Lord of the Sith without being evil. That's why she left the infrastructure of the planets intact, and didn't go in for the indisciminate killing that Malak did. Something similar to The Punisher, I guess. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If my understand of your explaination is correct then Darth Vader would be an anti-hero. He fell because he was trying to become the most powerful jedi inorder to help people. So this would mean you don't like the OT. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hardly. Vader went Dark for love, but stayed dark for the power. He rants constantly about the power of the dark side, and more importantly, he has absolutely no qualms about blowing up entire planets and massacring billions of people. Revan certainly had rather major problems with destroying planets, and ultimately left the galaxy all on her lonesome to stop the True Sith, a battle that she would have probably know she wouldn't have come away from. Vader was Evil to the core, all but a single spot a Good, all that was left on Anikin, that Luke latched onto. Revan's evil, in my opinion, was only skin deep, and she was more of a Jedi than the Council was.

Evil for all the right reasons. Someone who is evil, but is evil because ultimately, they are trying to do good. Revan fell to the dark side because the only way s/he could see to save the republic. Since she would be unable to properly sieze power from the inside, she had to put herself at the head of the (Lesser) Sith Empire in order to conquer the Republic and prepare it for the attack by the True Sith Empire. And of course, one can't be the Dark Lord of the Sith without being evil. That's why she left the infrastructure of the planets intact, and didn't go in for the indisciminate killing that Malak did. Something similar to The Punisher, I guess.

Nihilus and Sion are just pawns on Kreia's board, she conduct the game, not the 2 siths.... ok Nihilus is a bit difficult to control as is just raw instinct, but due to his nature is very predictable and Kreia knows him well... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> True, but for a game that has Dart Nihilus front and centre on the box, you'd expect that they'd spend a whole load of time building him up to reveal that finally. If they'd concentrated on Nihilus from the start, and focused on his evil, it would have made it all the more interesting when it is revealed that Kreia is the one behind it all. Yes, but if Malak had done that, then he'd have turned out just like Revan, and from everything that's said about Revan in KotOR 2, it's pretty clear that pre-amnesia, Revan was an anti-hero, not a villain. And what fun is it to kill the anti-hero?

Agreed. The moral ambiguity of it all was an awesome element of the story. What I was most happy about with that was that I could stay fully light sided while still maintaining that I was right to go to war.

Meh. Call me someone who likes stereotypical villains, but I prefer the bad guys who capture you and then figure out some needlessly long death that is easily escapable, and the bad guys who precede every fight with a big long monologue of how great they are and how flawless their plan was. Kreia was a deep character, but in my opinion, the writers fell into a "too much of a good thing" trap with her. Of course, I might be speaking differently if the original ending was used, because that had quite a bit of Kreia Monologuing.

I'm not surprised. I went in on Friday and got the last copy in the shop. Of course, that turned out to be a curse in disguise.

At least Malak was in KotOR 1. We see Sion twice, IIRC, before we kill him, and Nihilus once in flashback. A-woo. And yes, he was as thick as two short planks, but he made a damn good villain. After all, being stupid is practically a requirement for the position. Traya is a bit too smart for her own good when it comes to villany.

I'm pretty sure that Obsidian was founded by former Bioware developers, but I could be wrong about that. Having said this, I sure that the story concept was all Obsidian. Black Isle developers. Nah, what they should do is just pretend the ending never existed and instead pretend that the ending you can read in the "Cut Ending Stuff" thread was how it actually ended.

Well, I assumed that Zach meant that Kreia would give her PrC speech to you after meeting Atris, but maybe I'm wrong. As to levelling and the cap, we might be able to get the level lower somewhat lower than that. We could fix it so the maximum possible experience gained would take the character to 11th level, but allow for people to come in lower (like in KotOR 1, where the maximum experience meant to be gained of Taris was to take you to Lvl 8 tops). But I wonder if cutting the PrCs to ten levels will cause a character to switchback to his old class until level 20 (as happens in most RPGs, since PrCs are often greated to qualification at about 5th level), or would just cause a catastrophic engine failure.

And as I said before, since they signed that contract, I have no qualms about placing a good deal of the blame, and focusing a good deal of my anger, squarely on Obsidian, because they are a party to that contract. Anything LucasArts forces them to do through that contract is their fault too.

I expect, at the very least, them to come out and say something along the lines of "We are aware that there are some major technical issues in The Sith Lords. We are working on the problem." Even a "Screw you all, we're not patching this." would be better than me sitting around twiddling my thumbs waiting for them to release a patch that may not even materialise.

Well, The second expansion for Neverwinter Nights started the PC at a high level since it carried on directly from the first expansion. You just have to extend the levelling system to account for it. Also, the True Sith are meant to be extremely powerful, so a level twenty-something character won't have an easy time of it. Or shouldn't. Alternatively, The Exile can only maintain here connection to the force so long as there are other force sensitives around her to feed upon. If she was away from known space, it is plausible that she would lose all her abilities. If the former, there could be an option to import Revan from a KotOR 1 save to play as was done for Baldur's Gate 2. Similarly for the Exile and KotOR 2. If the latter, the character might just as well make a new Exile.

True, but a game with the popularity of KotOR and NWN2 are godsends to OE, who are trying to build their own company and name familiarity. It may not ended the best, and maybe they should have passed it up or demanded a better contract, but they may have been under the impression that LucasArts would give them time. I believe they thought that, otherwise, they would have made the story more concise so that it COULD fit in one game. Has their been better communication about the release date from the beginning, I imagine OE would have either had the time they needed or built the basic game, then started adding in sidequest and character interaction once the main stuff was finished. But then, I may be wrong. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh, of course, it's not entirely their fault by any stretch of the imagination, but the more they stonewall us with absolutely no help, information, apology, patch, or even an acknowledgement of the problems, that slice of the blame gets larger, because the pie is getting bigger. At first, I wasn't too bothered, but the fact that no one from Obsidian has been seen anywhere near the technical support forum when plenty of other development companies (Bioware...) have their development teams regularly visit the technical support forums is making me, and many others, gradually more and more frustrated by Obsidian. It's not so much the bugged release, it's the lack of after-sale support.

You just didn't see him for quite a bit. For a game called "The Sith Lords", Sith Lords are surprisingly absent for the great majority of the game.

I like dual weilding a long and short saber or two short sabers, but in my last game, I only came across two short sabers (one of which was that crappy freedon nadd one, and the other wasn't until the very end of the game), so I just made do with a double...

2 and 3 would be a breeze, I think. With regards to 1, well, there was a mod for KotOR 1 that started you as a Jedi, so starting you as a non-Jedi should be the same sort of thing. 4 and 5 would be the real hard ones. I reckon you could do 5, but it would be a universal difficulty mod, not something you could restrict to hard mode. As to 4, I don't have a clue. But other games have mods to remove a level cap, so at least in theory you should be able to insert one.

please just stop. LucasArts wanted an Xmas release so the game got an Xmas release. Done and done. Obsidian got a schedule which LA short changed and they had to make cuts. Bioware most likely would have been in just as much of a bind in such a short dev cycle. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Obsidian were the ones who signed a contract saying that LucasArts could do that. That they signed that contract means that at least to my mind, they shoulder quite a bit of the blame for the rushed release and unfinished game.

Here is what I would propose: Weaponmaster Level BAB Fort Ref Will Def 1st +1 2 2 2 2 2nd +2 3 3 3 2 3rd +3 3 3 3 2 4th +4 4 4 4 2 5th +5 5 5 4 2 6th +6 5 5 5 4 7th +7 6 5 6 4 8th +8 7 7 6 4 9th +9 7 7 6 4 10th +10 8 8 7 4 11th +11 9 9 7 4 12th +12 9 9 8 6 13th +13 10 10 8 6 14th +14 11 10 9 6 15th +15 11 11 9 6 16th +16 12 12 10 6 17th +17 13 13 10 6 18th +18 13 13 11 6 19th +19 14 14 11 6 20th +20 15 15 12 6 Watchman Level BAB Fort Ref Will Def 1st +0 2 2 2 2 2nd +1 3 3 3 2 3rd +2 3 3 3 2 4th +3 4 4 4 2 5th +3 4 5 5 2 6th +4 5 5 5 4 7th +5 6 5 6 4 8th +6 6 7 7 4 9th +6 6 7 7 4 10th +7 7 8 8 4 11th +8 7 9 9 4 12th +9 8 9 9 6 13th +9 8 10 10 6 14th +10 9 10 11 6 15th +11 9 11 11 6 16th +12 10 12 12 6 17th +12 10 13 13 6 18th +13 11 13 13 6 19th +14 11 14 14 6 20th +15 12 15 15 6 Master Level BAB Fort Ref Will Def 1st +0 2 2 2 2 2nd +1 3 3 3 2 3rd +1 3 3 3 2 4th +2 4 4 4 2 5th +2 5 4 5 2 6th +3 5 5 5 4 7th +3 6 6 6 4 8th +4 7 6 7 4 9th +4 7 6 7 4 10th +5 8 7 8 4 11th +5 9 7 9 4 12th +6 9 8 9 6 13th +6 10 8 10 6 14th +7 11 9 11 6 15th +7 11 9 11 6 16th +8 12 10 12 6 17th +8 13 10 13 6 18th +9 13 11 13 6 19th +9 14 11 14 6 20th +10 15 12 15 6 And I'd consider even that to be being generous. To make it really hard, I would have one good save rather than two (Weaponmaster - Fortitude, Watchman - Reflex, Master - Will), and have a progression where by the good save stats at +2 going up every two levels after level 2 (so +2 +3 +3 +4 +4 +5 etc.) and the two poor saves starting at +1 on level three and going up one every three levels (0 0 1 1 1 2 2 2 etc). Defence bonuses I don't know about. Bonus feats and bonus powers for Weaponmasters and Masters I don't know about either.

If you put [ code ] tags around it everything will keep its spacing I think, though, that the Jedi Master should have a 0 1 1 2 2 3 3 and so on progression, and the Watchman a 0 1 2 3 4 5 progression.

Once you are an extreme alignment and over level 15, I believe. Talk to Kreia at that point. If there's nothing about it, then wait until you meet Visas, then talk to Kreia again. It won't matter. The game is extremely easy any way you play it, pretty much. You need to build one. You should be able to find the right components on any single planet after you finish Telos. Talk to Bao-Dur about it when you finish Telos, and then talk to him again when you have all the bits. Bare in mind that you need base parts, not upgrade parts, so you cannot make the parts at a workbench or buy them from a merchant. You aquire the parts at certain points in the story.

If this is supposed to take place for a Female only, then why is the Handmaiden mentioned here? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It could be something as simple as the ending not being finished properly, so things like this were not fixed. Or, it could be that the decision to make Disciple and Handmaiden gender specific was not taken until later in development, after this ending had been written.

How did you get Kreia to go Lightside? That sounds like a bug to me too, I'm almost certain she's supposed to stay neutral no matter what.

I don't think that would ever happen. LucasArts does not mess with Star Wars continuity. So everything they produce has to coincide with what we already know. We know that the Mandalorians eventually die off and so KOTOR II has to reflect that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That was...exactly what I meant. As opposed to just a bland die off, there is a dramatic one. Either the clans are not reunited, and everyone slowly dies off until Jango Fett is the last Mandalorian, or the clans are reuinited for a Second Mandalorian War, where the mandalorians are almost completely wiped out except for a few families, and eventually, only Jango Fett is left.

What trick? I'd appreciate if u enlighten me :D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Before talking to a merchant for the first time, save your game. If you don't like what you see, reload. Each Merchant's inventory is randomly generated the first time you talk to them. If you reload enough, you can concieveably get anything you want.