Hiro Protagonist

People need to take ownership of their feelings and learn some restraint if they can't handle it. Having mods come down all the time isn't the answer imo. One of the problems I do see on this forum is some people feel compelled to go into threads and post (eg. troll) for laughs or to get a rise out of people and not contribute anything worthwhile. That seems to be more acceptable than two or more people debating over something in a thread. This was seen in the PoE forums during the game's development. People seem to get irritated that two or more people are debating and hogging up the thread. If I see two people debating for a few pages which happened a lot in the PoE forums, it doesn't worry me. I don't go all 'take it to pm's', trolling, etc and get all bothered by it. I can ignore it as I know it will die down and move onto something else. If anything, I find it amusing that people are debating to such great length to get their points across. It's like that Michael Jackson eating popcorn meme - I just sit there and watch the show. Maybe because I'm older now and hardly anything bothers me anymore. I would say that often the forum itself (including the layout) does not facilitate constructive debate. As mentioned before, everything not computer/game related is lumped into one area and the rules for WoT will apply to all threads regardless of their content. So if someone is posting nothing much of worth (memes) in a troll thread, they're also allowed to post not much of worth (memes) in a serious thread. They're not breaking any rules. If you split WoT up into two or more sub forums, (WoT, Political, Music, etc) like in the BIS days, then different mods for each forum will have differing rules and interpretation of those rules. Political will be more serious and rules may be applied and acted on more then say WoT. Other forums I visit are laid out a lot better and if I want intelligent discussions, then the vast majority of the time I wont do it here because I know before the end of the first page, there will be trolling, people getting triggered and offended, ad hominem attacks, and the thread is a lost cause. That's more reflective of putting a whole range of people (spammers, trollers, serious dudes, etc) in the one area than the rules. Not to say that there isn't any trolling in other sub forums, however I would contend that you don't see the same level of trolling in the other sub forums as you do with WoT.

Okay. It sounds like you have trouble controlling your feelings and then giving a reason 'human nature' because of it. That's what it sounds like to me. From my experience, some people can't help but be emotive while others can be more logical or 'Spock like' or they're a mix in between. I can only go on anecdotal evidence and experience from different forums including the BIS forums. I think there are several problems with this forum compared to the BIS forums (and other forums). 1. You have WoT containing everything that's not computer/game related. Everything is lumped into one sub forum. As Amentep pointed out, WWoT and Ye Olde were separated. And you had other sub forums like Music (Onkel was the mod from memory). Also with Amentep pointing out that you had the happy spammers in WWoT and usually the serious crowd who wanted serious discussions in Ye Olde. 2. Because you have everything lumped into one sub forum (WoT), you have a mix of spammers, trolls, serious internet dudes, etc. Trying to get an intelligent discussion going in a particular thread with others who populate this sub-forum, who are more flippant than serious, and jumping into these threads posting flippant remarks, memes and all sorts of stuff and not being as serious as the serious dudes isn't going to work imo. 3. BIS had several sub-forums where certain types of people would go to most of the time. And this isn't anything new. I've seen this on other forums including this forum. You have some people who visit these forums and they only go to the PoE forum or others will go to other sub forums. BIS was mostly the same. A lot of spammers and trolls did stay out of Ye Olde and were happy in their own sub forum. However, you did have your trolls like 6'8 Italian Warlord creating his 'Consider This' threads and I would find it hard to believe anybody taking issue with his threads - even in Ye Olde . I found them more humorous than anything. 4. Social media. This was practically non-existent back during the BIS days. And this has changed the landscape today with how people act and react. Back in the BIS days, very rarely was a topic taboo in Ye Olde. The topics ranged from Israel vs Palestine (Dargoth vs Yrkoon debates), Religion vs Atheism, many other religious topics like Deism, Political Correctness, and I even recall one poster coming up with a topic about paedophilia and asking if this was natural in nature (which I found eye-opening), the Iraq war from the early 90s, Terrorism and so on. There were so many topics. Now for various reasons you couldn't do that on this forum. Too much triggering and being offended today. 5. Forums was the Facebook and Twitterverse of the time for gamers. A lot of gamers went to gaming forums like BIS to discuss a wide range of topics and social interaction. The Inns on WWoT were quite popular. There were roleplaying threads. Now it seems (to me) that a lot of people go on facebook and twitter or elsewhere to interact. They don't necessarily go to forums. 6. I'd consider people in Ye Olde would rather defer than get involved in debates for various reasons. Only once I entered one of Dargoth vs Yrkoon threads to ask a question about the Israel/Palestine conflict and my understanding relating to the Bible and some history behind it and both gave me answers which I was satisfied with. And they went back to debating. I didn't consider myself as knowledgeable as both of those guys on the subject so I stayed out of it. I found it interesting and informative how they debated. Two posters debating pages on end wasn't anything new. However, some people see two posters debating on this forum for pages on end, and for some reason they get all huffy and puffy, don't like it and then jump in and troll. We've already seen this recently in another thread on this forum. tldr; If you want intelligent discussion from a group of people on a wide range of topics, this is not the best place for it.

You're admitting your part of the problem? You don't feel the need to rise above the poo-slinging and will jump in with the chimps and throw poo as well?

If you expect others to follow rules which you ascribe to, then you should follow them to. You are attacking Valsuelm in regards to "intellectually superior and basically God's gift to humanity" and not what's in his posts. Where did he say he was "intellectually superior and basically God's gift to humanity"? You're attacking the person. And here's a false dichotomy insult with this you said to him: "Either your reading comprehension isn't matching the monumental intellect you ascribe to yourself, or you're purposefully misconstruing the argument I was putting forth. Which is it?" So you're either attacking his ability with reading comprehension (personal insult) or that's he's doing it on purpose eg.trolling (another personal insult). Both are attacking the person instead of the topic. I think that's what some people on this forum don't understand. You expect others not to attack with personal insults but you do the same. Just because someone calls you insane doesn't mean you can throw barbs and snark at them - if you ascribe to the rules that you posted. Attack what they say (argument) not the person if you really mean it.

Some of the people I remember posting in Ye Olde were Dargoth, Yrkoon, Di, Gfted1, Deslaar, and many, many others. Too many to name. Funnily Sawyer was one of the mods along with TheCitybuster. And eventually Helge became a mod. I don't recall Sawyer being a mod so much. Citybuster pretty much looked after it as I recall. I do remember a lot of people keeping a wide berth and staying in the other forums. The interaction from the dev's is what I miss as well. Briareous, Puuk, MCA, ScottE, Sawyer, Feargus, Jessica are just some off the top of my head. Feargus shared so much information. It would be an absolute goldmine of information if the forum was archived. Now they have to be careful what they say. As an example, a question was asked to Feargus on the KS comments during the PoE KS and his answer made headlines. I didn't see his answer as a big deal. More like 'oh that's interesting' and kept on asking questions. It's understandable that they can't be as open as they used to be. Times have changed. As far as the rules go, I don't see a problem.

The two major thing that's changed since the BIS days is most people have left due to various reasons. And even some who have stayed just can't be bothered anymore with debates. Pretty much everything has been debated to death and it's just going over the same stuff all the time. The second thing is the dev's rarely post here anymore. The dev's were quite open back then even if they got in trouble for speaking their mind. Now, it's all PC and we have to be careful what we say, walking on eggshells, don't offend anyone. Back then, the dev's would tell you if you're being an idiot or something you said was idiotic. Now, it's all about 'feels' and those who are offended running straight to twitter to tell people the big bad dev called them an idiot. Well, the dev is right, you are an idiot. You could put that down to social media which wasn't as prevalent as it is now. The moderation is very similar and a continuation of the BIS forums. There's just a lot less people now. So for me who used to be on the BIS forums, when someone wants more moderation and mods to step in, it's like huh? And I'm sure there's others who would feel the same way. Maybe because we're used to the old forums. Ye Olde Political was a forum in itself, an unstoppable rampaging beast, and covered a whole range of topics and moved pretty fast. Sadly, most of those people have left.

This forum is nothing compared to how it was on the BIS forums in 'Ye Olde Political'. Those were the days.

Aww. Sore loser detected.

Moving the goal posts. What an intellectually dishonest position to take. You can't own up to the fact that you were wrong about what you said and I quote: "that even the mildest level of intellectual disability precludes a successful university application". But then again with your pride and ego, you could never admit you're wrong.

The most rudimentary of google searches came up with the below in less than 2 seconds. How's that eating crow working out for you? Flinders University http://www.flinders.edu.au/sohs/sites/disability-studies/associated-programs/up-the-hill-project---flinders-university.cfm University of Queensland With programs running in Australia and Ireland, and a Canadian trial completed, Latch-On has helped more than 150 students achieve their full potential, while helping re-set society’s perceptions of intellectual disability. http://www.uq.edu.au/research/research-at-uq/new-options-intellectual-disability George Mason University https://masonlife.gmu.edu/news/stories/headingtocollege PennState University Twenty–eight states offer a total of 110 officially registered college programs for students with intellectual disabilities (CTC, 2010). https://dus.psu.edu/mentor/2011/05/intellectual-disability-programs/ Portland State University PSU program opens doors of higher ed to students with intellectual disabilities http://www.pdx.edu/ceed/news/psu-program-opens-doors-higher-ed-students-intellectual-disabilities Kent State University https://www.kent.edu/kent/news/first-group-students-intellectual-disabilities-gets-ready-graduate-kent-state’s-career-and U.S. News (13 Feb 2009) ...help Apostolides learn at a collegiate level in spite of her Down syndrome, an intellectual disability. If Apostolides passes her classes this semester, she will receive her associate's degree. http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2009/02/13/college-is-possible-for-students-with-intellectual-disabilities EDIT: I have more links to throw at you.

Wow. How's that hole your digging for yourself? Just when I thought you couldn't get any deeper, you do.

Not at all. It would be good if you could stop your dishonesty. You've been proven time and again on these forums how wrong you've been.

No. You conveniently left out the inflammatory remarks by others (SJWs) including yourself stating... "that even the mildest level of intellectual disability precludes a successful university application". Now if this was said by anyone, especially in the media, other than a SJW, then I'm sure the internet would've had a melt down. The SJWs would have been out in full force.

Oh that's right. Because the argument from SJWs and yourself is, We're not retarded because retarded people with even the mildest form can't get into University. If you're going to throw meme's around, here's one for you.

Here we have it folks. Confirmation from a SJW that retarded people even at the mildest level wouldn't be able to get into University.

It's probably safe to say that even the mildest level of intellectual disability precludes a successful university application. 1. What's 85% of? It's right there in the quote. Y'know, if "ability to parse written text that is right in front of you" is an academic skill below the 6th grade level, I may actually have some bad news for you... In any case, I took the liberty of bolding it for your convenience. Using the numbers given in the source link and the wonders of simple arithmetics, we can easily determine that it covers 0,9-1.1 million people in the US. Symptoms: And yet you didn't answer the second part which is you're suggesting retarded people, even at the mildest level, can't get into University? In your own words, Y'know, if "ability to parse written text that is right in front of you" is an academic skill below the 6th grade level, I may actually have some bad news for you... Game. Over.

You're confusing the issue Bruce which is understandable. What you're trying to say is you identify with people with a mob mentality who are using social advocacy as a crutch to vent their frustration through the internet and in real life campaigns. And the SJWs dress up their mob mentality as being political correct to get away with their hypocrisy. I believe that's check and mate!

It's probably safe to say that even the mildest level of intellectual disability precludes a successful university application. Two things here. 1. What's 85% of? And the other 15%? How many in terms of number of people does that 15% cover? 2. You're suggesting retarded people, even at the mildest level, can't get into University? tsk tsk

If there are millions of SJWs, then clearly it's an epidemic.

Sure, if you have no idea what the term means. That definition fits SJWs to a t. Thanks for linking that definition because now we have a standard to measure SJWs by. In future, professionals should be able to address the root cause at an early age before the retardation sets in.

The only epic fail is the SJWs. And you just proved my point.

Wonderful insight and irrefutable evidence of the insanity in the SJW mind.

Come back in 25 years and if she looks the same or younger, I'd say it was a success.

That excludes every woman on the planet.