Hiro Protagonist

There's no problems in Sweden then? Okay. Good to know.

They seem to have some massive problems.

What the hell is happening in Sweden? I've just been reading up on this country.

That's not my definition. That's your definition. One of your criteria is: "more people live outside of extreme poverty than ever before" According to your link, in 2030-2035, more people should be living outside of extreme poverty than ever before (2016). Therefore, would not the golden age be around 2030-2035?

It's not semantics at all. You set a criteria that included extreme poverty. By your own link, 1.2 Billion live in extreme poverty as of 2010. You have also said: "more people live outside of extreme poverty than ever before" And yet, while one could argue that people do live inside of extreme poverty, pushing the dollar/wage up could in fact be hiding the real figure of poverty and extreme poverty. Interesting to note a dollar/wage value has been set as the line between poverty and extreme poverty. And there are criticisms of this by your own link. Also, by your own link and the trajectory of zero extreme poverty, wouldn't we be heading to a golden age around 2030-2035 by your own metrics?

It makes perfect sense. Let me ask you this. If you are making true statements, then what is the line between poverty and extreme poverty.

No, you would just say it behind the comfort of the internet.

Let me ask you this question Bruce. How many people in poverty or extreme poverty have you asked in real life and said they are living in a golden age where more diseases have been cured than ever before, people live longer than ever before, more people are educated than ever before and more people live outside of extreme poverty than ever before?

Be good to know the line where people go from poverty to extreme poverty. Especially for those that are in poverty. Because we can tell those people who haven't crossed that line, Hurlshot and Bruce say you should be thankful.

For all those people who are in poverty, just remember you're living in a golden age. At least you're not in extreme poverty. Aren't you thankful?

I'm a little surprised they had him in handcuffs.

Starting to take Wednesday's off due to having too many holidays accrued (5 months up my sleeve already) and trying to get it down. Day off and fairly productive day. Run along the beach. Counted and bagged all my coins that I accumulated in a jar and deposited a few hundred dollars at the bank. Bought some jeans, business pants and shirts. Took the car to a car wash and sat back and read the newspaper with a cappuccino. Installed a digital certificate on my girlfriends laptop so she can access some .gov site. Confirmed our tickets to Hawaii in March next year ($350 return flights - yeah!) and went through the itinerary staying at the Big Island, Kauai and Oahu (also managed to get a $300 discount on accommodation). Finalised my ski trip later this year. Sitting back and watching some TV episodes. Caught up on the latest with Arrow, Blindspot, Flash, The 100 and The Blacklist. Time to get some lunch.

Her last name is interesting.

People need to take ownership of their feelings and learn some restraint if they can't handle it. Having mods come down all the time isn't the answer imo. One of the problems I do see on this forum is some people feel compelled to go into threads and post (eg. troll) for laughs or to get a rise out of people and not contribute anything worthwhile. That seems to be more acceptable than two or more people debating over something in a thread. This was seen in the PoE forums during the game's development. People seem to get irritated that two or more people are debating and hogging up the thread. If I see two people debating for a few pages which happened a lot in the PoE forums, it doesn't worry me. I don't go all 'take it to pm's', trolling, etc and get all bothered by it. I can ignore it as I know it will die down and move onto something else. If anything, I find it amusing that people are debating to such great length to get their points across. It's like that Michael Jackson eating popcorn meme - I just sit there and watch the show. Maybe because I'm older now and hardly anything bothers me anymore. I would say that often the forum itself (including the layout) does not facilitate constructive debate. As mentioned before, everything not computer/game related is lumped into one area and the rules for WoT will apply to all threads regardless of their content. So if someone is posting nothing much of worth (memes) in a troll thread, they're also allowed to post not much of worth (memes) in a serious thread. They're not breaking any rules. If you split WoT up into two or more sub forums, (WoT, Political, Music, etc) like in the BIS days, then different mods for each forum will have differing rules and interpretation of those rules. Political will be more serious and rules may be applied and acted on more then say WoT. Other forums I visit are laid out a lot better and if I want intelligent discussions, then the vast majority of the time I wont do it here because I know before the end of the first page, there will be trolling, people getting triggered and offended, ad hominem attacks, and the thread is a lost cause. That's more reflective of putting a whole range of people (spammers, trollers, serious dudes, etc) in the one area than the rules. Not to say that there isn't any trolling in other sub forums, however I would contend that you don't see the same level of trolling in the other sub forums as you do with WoT.

Okay. It sounds like you have trouble controlling your feelings and then giving a reason 'human nature' because of it. That's what it sounds like to me. From my experience, some people can't help but be emotive while others can be more logical or 'Spock like' or they're a mix in between. I can only go on anecdotal evidence and experience from different forums including the BIS forums. I think there are several problems with this forum compared to the BIS forums (and other forums). 1. You have WoT containing everything that's not computer/game related. Everything is lumped into one sub forum. As Amentep pointed out, WWoT and Ye Olde were separated. And you had other sub forums like Music (Onkel was the mod from memory). Also with Amentep pointing out that you had the happy spammers in WWoT and usually the serious crowd who wanted serious discussions in Ye Olde. 2. Because you have everything lumped into one sub forum (WoT), you have a mix of spammers, trolls, serious internet dudes, etc. Trying to get an intelligent discussion going in a particular thread with others who populate this sub-forum, who are more flippant than serious, and jumping into these threads posting flippant remarks, memes and all sorts of stuff and not being as serious as the serious dudes isn't going to work imo. 3. BIS had several sub-forums where certain types of people would go to most of the time. And this isn't anything new. I've seen this on other forums including this forum. You have some people who visit these forums and they only go to the PoE forum or others will go to other sub forums. BIS was mostly the same. A lot of spammers and trolls did stay out of Ye Olde and were happy in their own sub forum. However, you did have your trolls like 6'8 Italian Warlord creating his 'Consider This' threads and I would find it hard to believe anybody taking issue with his threads - even in Ye Olde . I found them more humorous than anything. 4. Social media. This was practically non-existent back during the BIS days. And this has changed the landscape today with how people act and react. Back in the BIS days, very rarely was a topic taboo in Ye Olde. The topics ranged from Israel vs Palestine (Dargoth vs Yrkoon debates), Religion vs Atheism, many other religious topics like Deism, Political Correctness, and I even recall one poster coming up with a topic about paedophilia and asking if this was natural in nature (which I found eye-opening), the Iraq war from the early 90s, Terrorism and so on. There were so many topics. Now for various reasons you couldn't do that on this forum. Too much triggering and being offended today. 5. Forums was the Facebook and Twitterverse of the time for gamers. A lot of gamers went to gaming forums like BIS to discuss a wide range of topics and social interaction. The Inns on WWoT were quite popular. There were roleplaying threads. Now it seems (to me) that a lot of people go on facebook and twitter or elsewhere to interact. They don't necessarily go to forums. 6. I'd consider people in Ye Olde would rather defer than get involved in debates for various reasons. Only once I entered one of Dargoth vs Yrkoon threads to ask a question about the Israel/Palestine conflict and my understanding relating to the Bible and some history behind it and both gave me answers which I was satisfied with. And they went back to debating. I didn't consider myself as knowledgeable as both of those guys on the subject so I stayed out of it. I found it interesting and informative how they debated. Two posters debating pages on end wasn't anything new. However, some people see two posters debating on this forum for pages on end, and for some reason they get all huffy and puffy, don't like it and then jump in and troll. We've already seen this recently in another thread on this forum. tldr; If you want intelligent discussion from a group of people on a wide range of topics, this is not the best place for it.

You're admitting your part of the problem? You don't feel the need to rise above the poo-slinging and will jump in with the chimps and throw poo as well?

If you expect others to follow rules which you ascribe to, then you should follow them to. You are attacking Valsuelm in regards to "intellectually superior and basically God's gift to humanity" and not what's in his posts. Where did he say he was "intellectually superior and basically God's gift to humanity"? You're attacking the person. And here's a false dichotomy insult with this you said to him: "Either your reading comprehension isn't matching the monumental intellect you ascribe to yourself, or you're purposefully misconstruing the argument I was putting forth. Which is it?" So you're either attacking his ability with reading comprehension (personal insult) or that's he's doing it on purpose eg.trolling (another personal insult). Both are attacking the person instead of the topic. I think that's what some people on this forum don't understand. You expect others not to attack with personal insults but you do the same. Just because someone calls you insane doesn't mean you can throw barbs and snark at them - if you ascribe to the rules that you posted. Attack what they say (argument) not the person if you really mean it.

Some of the people I remember posting in Ye Olde were Dargoth, Yrkoon, Di, Gfted1, Deslaar, and many, many others. Too many to name. Funnily Sawyer was one of the mods along with TheCitybuster. And eventually Helge became a mod. I don't recall Sawyer being a mod so much. Citybuster pretty much looked after it as I recall. I do remember a lot of people keeping a wide berth and staying in the other forums. The interaction from the dev's is what I miss as well. Briareous, Puuk, MCA, ScottE, Sawyer, Feargus, Jessica are just some off the top of my head. Feargus shared so much information. It would be an absolute goldmine of information if the forum was archived. Now they have to be careful what they say. As an example, a question was asked to Feargus on the KS comments during the PoE KS and his answer made headlines. I didn't see his answer as a big deal. More like 'oh that's interesting' and kept on asking questions. It's understandable that they can't be as open as they used to be. Times have changed. As far as the rules go, I don't see a problem.

The two major thing that's changed since the BIS days is most people have left due to various reasons. And even some who have stayed just can't be bothered anymore with debates. Pretty much everything has been debated to death and it's just going over the same stuff all the time. The second thing is the dev's rarely post here anymore. The dev's were quite open back then even if they got in trouble for speaking their mind. Now, it's all PC and we have to be careful what we say, walking on eggshells, don't offend anyone. Back then, the dev's would tell you if you're being an idiot or something you said was idiotic. Now, it's all about 'feels' and those who are offended running straight to twitter to tell people the big bad dev called them an idiot. Well, the dev is right, you are an idiot. You could put that down to social media which wasn't as prevalent as it is now. The moderation is very similar and a continuation of the BIS forums. There's just a lot less people now. So for me who used to be on the BIS forums, when someone wants more moderation and mods to step in, it's like huh? And I'm sure there's others who would feel the same way. Maybe because we're used to the old forums. Ye Olde Political was a forum in itself, an unstoppable rampaging beast, and covered a whole range of topics and moved pretty fast. Sadly, most of those people have left.

This forum is nothing compared to how it was on the BIS forums in 'Ye Olde Political'. Those were the days.

Aww. Sore loser detected.

Moving the goal posts. What an intellectually dishonest position to take. You can't own up to the fact that you were wrong about what you said and I quote: "that even the mildest level of intellectual disability precludes a successful university application". But then again with your pride and ego, you could never admit you're wrong.

The most rudimentary of google searches came up with the below in less than 2 seconds. How's that eating crow working out for you? Flinders University http://www.flinders.edu.au/sohs/sites/disability-studies/associated-programs/up-the-hill-project---flinders-university.cfm University of Queensland With programs running in Australia and Ireland, and a Canadian trial completed, Latch-On has helped more than 150 students achieve their full potential, while helping re-set society’s perceptions of intellectual disability. http://www.uq.edu.au/research/research-at-uq/new-options-intellectual-disability George Mason University https://masonlife.gmu.edu/news/stories/headingtocollege PennState University Twenty–eight states offer a total of 110 officially registered college programs for students with intellectual disabilities (CTC, 2010). https://dus.psu.edu/mentor/2011/05/intellectual-disability-programs/ Portland State University PSU program opens doors of higher ed to students with intellectual disabilities http://www.pdx.edu/ceed/news/psu-program-opens-doors-higher-ed-students-intellectual-disabilities Kent State University https://www.kent.edu/kent/news/first-group-students-intellectual-disabilities-gets-ready-graduate-kent-state’s-career-and U.S. News (13 Feb 2009) ...help Apostolides learn at a collegiate level in spite of her Down syndrome, an intellectual disability. If Apostolides passes her classes this semester, she will receive her associate's degree. http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2009/02/13/college-is-possible-for-students-with-intellectual-disabilities EDIT: I have more links to throw at you.

Wow. How's that hole your digging for yourself? Just when I thought you couldn't get any deeper, you do.