Plano Skywalker

I really like the idea of pay-as-you-go content updates...kinda like NWNs premium modules....although I've heard that they are a logistical pain to implement (for the end-user). But I like the general jist of that...sure, sell me a 20 hour game for $50 but then sell me 10 hour downloadable expansion packs for $5 each....that is a business model that I think would work well. There needs to be a middle ground between buying a stand-alone game and the MMORPG.

I suspect that Revan's story will eventually be told in EU media outside the video games. However, the question is when. I have to admit, if they can find a credible way to keep Revan as PC then that would have the benefit of keeping Revan out of the other media for a much longer amount of time. The longer they can delay ticking off the gamers who want an ambiguous identity, the better for the franchise. Ideally, the best time to hard code Revan is when he is no longer the flavor of the month. He will continue to be the flavor of the month until his story is put to rest (presumably in K3). The absolute worst thing they can do (albeit the most convenient) is to use Revan as Charlie from Charlie's Angels....an ever-present plot device that never gets resolution.

I do...in non-K3 threads

the "latest" KOTOR 3 rumor: http://xbox.ign.com/mail/2005-08-30.html

True, except they forgot one thing: EU and EU fans. They want Revan in the EU. And, in order to be in the EU, one must have a hard-coded identity. They truely did not understand what they were getting into. Exile is really just a backstory (and somewhat customizable at that)...they pretty much got it right with Exile. Revan, on the other hand, is an out-and-out pregen. That made it extremely easy to tell the story and extremely easy to avoid a proper darkside path but it came at a significant cost: the gamers want to say goodbye to Revan while the EU fans want to learn more and more about him and want him to be the hero of K3. But because of the the non-feasibility of develeling him AGAIN, the only way to include him (as I see it) is to hard-code him.

for various reasons, I just think it would be extremely hard to have Revan as PC of K3. I personally would opt for an ambitious scenario where Revan is, indeed, the main protagonist but not the PC. The PC can either cooperate with Revan or cooperate with the enemy. Exile should become the Master Vrook character of K3....important but not too important.

right and "sequel" is hardly the word. The Two Towers and the Return of the King were not so much sequels of the Fellowship of the Ring as they were just parts 2 and 3 of one story chopped up with a meat cleaver. That is what K3 *must* be: a "sequel" the way the Return of the King is a sequel.

a few thoughts: 1) unless K3 wraps up a proper trilogy, then it really doesn't matter. 2) however, unless K3 does, in fact, wrap up a proper trilogy, then K2 absolutely, positively falls apart. 3) believe it or not, LA does not want K2 to completely fall apart, SO... 1) Exile is a disposable, non-essential character. I enjoyed playing Exile better (because I had more say in his identity) but, overall, he is a disposable, filler construct. For the purposes of diversity, I say hard code Exile as a female Twilek OR do not even use Exile at all (other than brief comments in various conversations). The main problem with just referring to Exile in conversation is that this person would need a name. Hard coded would make the writer's job much easier. 2) Revan was NOT originally envisioned as an EU character more popular than Exar Kun. However, a monster has been born and they have to give this monster REAL RESOLUTION. It is easier to do this if this monster has a hard coded identity. And please don't even suggest that he lose his memory again and get deleveled again....PERISH THE THOUGHT! the situation we are all faced with is not ideal but it is what it is. The only way they can finish this story with the kind of closure and polish I am looking for is to have Revan and Exile as hard-coded, non-playable characters.

I agree that K1 left no room for a proper sequel and that K2 was doomed from the start. But the fact that they were able to do what they did with it, under the most unfavorable circumstances does, I think, speak highly of OE. That is not cheap flattery...it is the truth. I suspect that the suits at LA originally conceived K2 and K3 as being much different than the first. Now, as I see it, they pretty much have to make it into a proper trilogy with real resolution of the principles of both K1 and K2. NOTE: I believe that one of the reasons they "opened it back up" was that the fans kept harping about Revan and the fact that Revan was now an EU construct whose story was being told in the games. LA truely did not grasp that Revan would end up in the EU and (arguably) as its most popular character. They found themselves caught in flypaper of their (BioWare's) own making. And, the funny thing is, Revan was envisioned as a masked, unisex construct, not as a SW hero. They all should have known better....no more pregens for SW games! The fans will not let pregens die and the comic companies are not going to pass up an opportunity to tell their stories.

When it comes to combat, I personally prefer what I will call ACTIVE TURN BASED (BG and KOTOR-style) over true turn based or true real time. However, when you use active turn based, AI becomes all the more important. AI is the weakest link in that kind of combat. If they can give us really good combat AI, then, without question in my mind, active turn based is the best. True turn based takes away from the cimematic feel that 3d games pretty much have to have.

I generally agree with something that was alluded to in this thread and at least one other recent thread and that is that one of the things that make it an RPG is that you are pretending to be someone else (and, hence, using that person's stats). With true, real-time combat your own skills are being tested rather than the skills of the imaginary protagonist. Not to say that there is anything wrong with an action/adventure with a good story but do we really need the kind of ambitious marriage that JE, for instance, is trying to pull off? Not sure. I'll buy it if it's fun but I agree that RPGs don't need to be poor clones of FPSers or Action/Adventures.

the bottom line, IMO, is that Lucas contradicted EU continuity. That is fine, it can be explained away but it serves no constructive purpose to deny that this is so. EU lawyers like to think that the EU is airtight and can never be trumped while, in fact, the EU is mishmash of things that add significantly to the genre and things that are so infantile that they are barely worth repeating. What we need is an "A-list" continuity that LFL officially signs off on that has just as much weight as the movies. Now that the movies are over (presumably), this sort of thing should be possible.

I think the problem lies in the question "what is the Old Republic?" Because, correct me if I am wrong but, continuity-wise, there is only the Old Republic, Galactic Empire (movie era) and New Republic (post-movie, Vong era). In a sense, the demise of Bane gave way to a "new Republic" but that term cannot be used because it is already in use. I think, eventually, we will see constructs such as 1st Republic, 2nd Republic, etc.

continuity-wise the Republic is 5000-years old movie-wise it is 1000-years old so we have a case of a man who has never read an EU novel or comic (GL) haphazardly trumping continuity with movie canon? perhaps. but like anything else, this problem can be solved by continuity. the answer that fixes the problem is that, while the Republic may be 5,000 years old, it was really just a feudal system in Republic drag until the time of Darth Bane. It is only when Bane's Sith Rule of Two came about and also the demise of Bane that a *true* Republic system was in control of the galaxy. Before Bane, there was a Republic structure but no lasting peace. If you think about it, it is that more "feudal Republic" that defines the KOTOR era. The KOTOR era is, essentially, the window of time between the rise of Exar Kun and the demise of Darth Bane.

I think one of the main reasons they never brought it back into production (K3) was because of the Episode III game. From a business perspective, they really could not afford to have 2 lightsaber-oriented console games going at the same time. However, I see the delay as a blessing in disguise. Because, K3 will now, undoubtedly, be next-gen and, by now, LA should be quite aware of what the fans want in the next...aware of what works and what doesn't. And now they realize, I think, something that they did not fully grasp from the beginning: they ARE writting official SW continuity and so the stories need to be consistent, make sense, and be easily adaptable to comics. I think it is obvious that LA did not realize the continuity implications of this when they started. They know now.

that is the core, pretty much. It does not rule out playing a pregen, real-time combat, first-person perspective, including RTS elements or anything else.

What is an RPG? or cRPG as it were? Any answer, of course, would be highly subjective but I will present my take. >>ROLE alone does not a cRPG make. I really enjoy playing 007: Everything or Nothing on my Xbox. It is very immersive and has a decent storyline. There are, sometimes, different ways to accomplish the same thing. However, this game is an action/adventure and not an RPG. One glaring reason: there is absolutely no user-controlled dialogue. >>DIALOGUE and NON-VIOLENT TACTICS are usually included in what I would define as a cRPG. If I cannot control (at least to some extent) what I say and cannot employ non-violent tactics, then I am not playing a cRPG, as I would define it. >>STAT-BASED GAME MECHANICS this is obviously a throw-back to the good old days of p&p D&D but if there is a true cRPG out there that does not have some sort of leveling up, then I haven't seen it yet. so, I guess my core definition of a cRPG would involve 1) the role of a protagonist, 2) significant choices with regard to dialogue and other non-violent tactics and, for all practical purposes, 3) stat-based game mechanics. that is the irreducible core. here are some preferred extras: >>CUSTOMIZABILITY if there is a backstory, I want some say in it....I also like being able to join factions...really, factions is what makes Morrowind a really good game I would like to see this implemented in the more linear type games (such as KOTOR)...it would be just enough openendedness to make you forget just how linear the main quest is....also, Morrowind-style training is a nice touch (although it could use some polish) >>ALTERNATE PATHS/ENDINGS >>THREE DIMENSIONAL ALIGNMENT/REPUTATION system >>LOTS OF EASTER EGGS the ability to get married (a la Pirates!) and have your spouse become your informant...things like can really make a difference

that part is just a theory but it allows the two stories to work really well together. that view is advanced here: http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?sh...ndpost&p=381586

well, I do not (nor have I ever) work in the game development industry. I admit, my statements amounted to a guess. but yes, if Game A has no voice actors and Game B has 30 voice actors, then Game B needs more logistical planning....I believe that.

I think the bottom line is that none of us can know for sure if this was supposed to be a trilogy or not. HOWEVER, it is definitely a trilogy now and Revan is the principle....the principle needs real resolution. No more copouts....DO NOT MAKE K3 A SOAP! The main dilemma with making Revan the priniciple is the fact that he really can't be the PC (unless he forgets everything again AND gets deleveled). So, as I see it, the ONLY way to wrap this up with Revan as the principle is to have a scenario were Revan is the primary protagonist and the PC is not...the PC gets to choose whether to assist Revan or to assist the enemy. That would be ambitious for a company like LA who likes tried-and-true cookie cutter stories and superhero PCs. But one can hope anyway.

it is definitely a trade off. I personally like full VO but I also realize that it tends to make the game more linear. it IS possible to have VO and a "sandbox" game at the same time but it just requires much greater planning (the cost is not necessarily financial).

Oh, it works alright, especially in Star Wars. I'm just not sure they really needed to do that in the first installment of JE. Does seem to be something of a copout.

I think the real question is whether they are going to do a JE2 since JE was not the overwhelming success they hoped it would be. I have heard that the reason the content was a bit short is because they wanted to save some of their ideas for JE2. That makes sense. I like to think this was an introduction to a series of games. If it is, the stories will be better: trust me.

I liked KOTOR I alot. I liked KOTOR II even better. However, JE is, IMO, a better game than either K1 or K2. Anytime you break new ground, you have to understand that it may flop or not do as well as you think it should. This is how JE broke new ground: * a Western-style cRPG with a very immersive story AND with real-time combat. normally, you get one or the other. * this is a new IP. NWNs and KOTOR had established franchises to gloss over their weak points. JE does not...it is its own world and a rather interesting one at that. Now some would say that an RPG should not be a "twitch" game. Well, there is a certain style of combat (transformation) that is a bit overpowered. I believe this was done on purpose...it was a crutch for the old schoolers who don't want to grind it out with real-time combat. For those that do want to grind it out, well, they can handicap themselves and just not use that style.

That is definitely possible...as long as the antagonist is the True Sith, we really don't need to see Revan or the Exile in K3 as long as they explain what happened to them. Exile is easy. Because of the way he draws his Force powers, he could easily slip back into obscurity. Revan? Having Revan out of the picture (but not dead) would, I think, offend alot of fans. It was, after all, the True Sith who seduced him and used him as a pawn. It is Revan, really, more than anyone else who needs revenge...who needs to defeat the True Sith. I am looking at this not as a Revan fan but as one who wants the story of K3 to be really tight. It is much easier to do that if you have Revan (a hard-coded Revan).