Gromnir

see, now we got a quote o' what you actually said. you then point that cnn and nbc is the biggest perpetrators o' journalistic lack o' integrity. ... now that you has had a chance to reflect, it is not that you is claiming that the media is " pulling out whomever dares report anything negative about Israel," and you is instead concerned that two stories about journalist being removed for their tweets is not getting enough coverage. well, good for you... sorta. btw, one reason the cnn reporter story didn't get much coverage is 'cause she apologized for her inappropriate tweet. whether you think she shoulda' apologized or not, am suspecting her fellow journalists respected her decision. the other story, the one with the former al jazeera reporter, got ridiculous amounts o' attention from an incredible range o' news outlets. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/business/media/nbc-correspondent-ayman-mohyeldin-is-returned-to-gaza.html?_r=0 http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/nbc-reporter-ayman-mohyeldin-back-in-gaza.html http://www.latimes.com/local/abcarian/la-me-ra-a-reporter-in-gaza-removed-by-nbc-20140718-column.html http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/20/media/ayman-mohyeldin-nbc-news/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/07/16/what-happened-when-palestinian-children-were-killed-in-front-of-a-hotel-full-of-journalists/ etc. am not certain how much more coverage you wanted. HA! Good Fun!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obstinate to be fair, we don't have proof that obstinate means what websters says. after all, how does we trust them? they ain't an original source neither. what makes them so special? lexicography is clear a sham... a conspiracy o' pundits... or perhaps aliens. yeah, aliens. *eye roll* you get agiel's simulation and literal dozens o' experts, and janes and lord knows how many governments chiming in to support the notion that a sa-11 could shoot down the airplane. lord only knows where bester's info actually comes from, but just saying "nuh uh," over and over is not a compelling argument. and again, 'cause this were missed, for the ukranians with their full buk system to be the culprits they woulda' needed travel to some backwater ukranian town controlled by separatists, and then fire 'pon a passenger plane and then escape separatist controlled territory unnoticed. is mind-boggling. HA! Good Fun!

He was a correspondent for NBC who was there when the events happened and whose firsthand account they failed to broadcast as well as the removal of 2 different Tweets one of which said that the US defense had said that the bombardment was Hamas fault for not accepting a cease fire. Actual NBC coverage of the incident happened on the other side of the wall on Tel Aviv instead of the scene. The CNN incident was a lady (whose name I forget) that was doing a report on Israelis cheering while rockets where being fired and later tweeted about being threatened by them, I paraphrase "if you don't say what we want you to say we will break your car" she also called them pricks. After complaints from pro Israel groups she was called back. As for NBC, the higher ups are under scrutiny and criticism from members of the press for their actions and how the official reason Alyam was called back (safety concerns) contradicts them sending another reporter at the same time. It is known that this was a decision by higher ups. At the very least you can say that they are threading carefully and that they don't want to offend, ergo they are biased towards Israel. you aren't making sense. the incident that the former al-jazeera guy tweeted about were covered by everybody. no cover-up. no sweeping under the rug. no hiding. yeah, the network clear didn't like what it thought were his bias, but nothing were being hidden from the public eye. again, you thinks cnn and nbc is worstest, but look again at the cnn coverage o' the kids getting killed at the beach story. try and sell us on it being pro-israeli. also, we recall seeing the other report you mention (two is all you got?) and that were reported from cnn as well. the woman in question observed that israelis were cheering as gaza bombardment started... were speaking to wolf blitzer at the time. no cover-up. what she got in trouble for were a tweet she made afterwards. her tweet stated the israeli locales threatened to destroy her car and she called 'em scum... all o' which were covered by multiple western news sources. what on earth do you think is being covered up? journalists is just as likely to get themselves in trouble with social media as is artists and athletes. there is a perhaps unreasonable notion that journalists should be complete objective even in a freaking war zone. that strikes us as a bit silly. the thing is, given how polarizing this conflict is, networks is foolishly trying to pretend as if their reporters is better then regular folks... objective and pure. is a crock, but am at least understanding the motivation. nevertheless, is no cover-ups based on your examples. there very well could be cover-ups going on as we speak, but you is giving us very well-known examples wherein the underlying stories were televised and printed multiple times. try to spin as a cover-up is... odd. HA! Good Fun!

eh? not sure which you want, but either way it ain't anywhere close to 20km. am assuming height is a constant o' 10km. if you wanna make hypotenuse 32 km , then length would be ~30.5km? yes? switch and make 32 km the length on your triangle and that ends up with a hypotenuse o' over 33.5 km. is not 20km no matter how we figure it. at 16 km per minute, there is clear more than enough time to spot a target at 10km and fire. is no conclusions being jumped to save that some folks see some craziness somewhere trying to tell'em that sa-11 couldn't possible be the weapon 'cause of (insert newest rt televised theory here,) and person jumps to the conclusion that craziness is true. "anything is possible" only applies to fantasy stories and perhaps the 1969 mets. as you say, the investigation will continue, but possible range o' the buk won't change regardless... and some folks in eastern europe will disregard anything they hears from a western news source regardless. http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2013/0222/Was-Chelyabinsk-meteor-actually-a-meteor-Many-Russians-don-t-think-so.-video adding link again. HA! Good Fun!

32km... not 20km. just over 32km actually. http://www.nationalelectronicsmuseum.org/firedome.shtml "I've talked to a guy in the .mil zone who served as a Buk commander..." *chuckle* ok, am not gonna touch that. Gromnir dated a marine for over a year. nice girl, but her father were fbi and he and Gromnir only ever got along when surfing... long story. anywho, we do not claim any particular military acumen or knowledge based on pillow talk with our ex. you wanna rely on similar such doggerel, then be our guest, but that is where we stopped reading. HA! Good Fun!

Some of the strikes certainly are legitimate military strikes, even if most/ many are simple collective punishment. A direct ground invasion would have had far more losses than Israel have suffered at present, and that is far more important to Israel than Palestinian losses. In the end Lebanon 2006 ended without Israel achieving their aims because they lost too many soldiers and equipment, not because they were killing lots of Lebanese civilians. Even as a rhetorical question that's... pretty leaky, whichever way you look at it. Ah, the answer is Israel! Of course! Yitzhak Shamir and Menachem Begin, the first PMs from Likud, were both leaders of Lehi/ Stern Gang, Ariel Sharon was convicted of complicity in genocide in Lebanon and was widely rumoured to have bulldozed Egyptian prisoners in trenches in 1967 as well, various Likud coalition partners in government have or have had ludicrously policies like deporting the entire arab population (in cattle carts perhaps, for maximum irony). Complaints about electing terrorists are pot/ kettle/ black, at best. Plus there's actually dozens of other counters. Nelson Mandela, designated terrorist of the ANC; Gerry Adams et al from Sinn Fein, political arm of the IRA etc etc. more misleading. menachem begin, for example were involved in more than a few terrorist actions during the pre-1948 years. the thing is, when he were elected, it were as a member of herut, and while there were actual a great deal o' opposition to herut as it drew unfavorable comparisons to more than a few extreme far-right organizations that were active at that time, it were not, by any stretch o' the imagination, a terrorist organization. no suprise, but the general public didn't know about the terrorist past o folks like begin... 'cause guess what, most normal people don't advertise that they is terrorists. why? because they know that people react with revulsion and fear when confronted by terrorists. the dirty past o' the folks you mention is largely irrelevant in the present context. is no more relevant than is electing folks who is later revealed to be child molesters. we don't blame the public for electing terrorists they weren't aware of o' anymore than we blame 'em for electing congressman who like to email their junk. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/04/sydney-leather-anthony-weiner-phone-sex-politics_n_3704117.html conversely, when the guy being elected has a party platform of Kill The Infidels, you gotta wonder 'bout the folks electing him/her. get real and at least try and find something analogous. HA! Good Fun!

you would think so, but read bester and some o' the other posters in this thread. is wacky. HA! Good Fun!

"And this is exactly what I've said. Without the radar, it's almost useless." your conclusions is not supported by information. agiel link shows that the radar on the stand-alone is indeed more limited than the complete system. 4 seconds to cover 120 degrees with a range o' +32km? that is useless? 33,000 ft is 10km up, which is no issue as max altitude is within range. plane is traveling about 16 kilometers per minute? am not seeing a problem with the math. our link observes that the stand-alone is capable but doesn't have advanced IFF, which would explain why the clowns shot down a passenger jet. all-in-all, am not thinking you has not proved what you think you has proved. in point o' fact, you has helped illustrate more clearly how/why the separatists would mistake a jetliner for... something else. so, thanks? as for malcador comments... am not understanding. at this point, the most significant question would appear to be who were in control o' the missile system that shot down the airplane, yes? HA! Good Fun! ps one of these days we will learn to spell "separatists" correct... sheesh

gaza is where hamas is. that is the difference. west bank is blockaded along israeli boarder. this were done to reduce/eliminate suicide bombings. 2001 peace talks broke down (last time israel seemed serious 'bout peace) after which second intifada kicks into high gear catching israel a bit unprepared. where negotiations failed to protect israel, the fence has been marvelously effective. is no complete blockade of the west bank. again, the west being cautious is not the least bit surprising. however, given the history o' the region, arab unwillingness to aid hamas is almost unique. HA! Good Fun! ps orogun fails to recognize that western news outlets covered the very temporary dismissal o' Mohyeldin quite extensively. as a former al-jazeera reporter, we suspect his objectivity were considered a bit suspect from the get go. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/business/media/nbc-correspondent-ayman-mohyeldin-is-returned-to-gaza.html?_r=0 and cnn http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/meast/mideast-conflict-children/index.html?iref=allsearch regardless, the actual news story proves kinda the opposite o' what orogun suggests. cnn coverage o' the incident that Mohyeldin opined about were the most melodramatic we saw anywhere.

"Isn't the alternative that the launcher was stolen by the separatists ?" am not seeing your point? based on unconverted evidence, we know that a missile were launched from somewhere near snizhae at approximate the same time the malaysina airliner went down. based on reasonable evidence, the likely missile launcher were an sa-11. is it within the realm o' possibility that in spite o' the contemporaneous missile launching there were another cause for the plane exploding in midair without any kinda warning? sure, but am gonna use occam's razor for the moment. so, other than the conspiracy nutters who claims the plane were filled with dead bodies and then blown up via a bomb by the US or the illuminati, that leaves 2 likely options and a less likely 3rd. 2 options: separatists fired a missile from an sa-11 that downed the malaysian airliner or ukranians fired a missile from their own sa-11 which downed the malaysian airliner. option 3 seems unnecessarily convoluted, but russians had the necessary hardware and access to the site from which the missile were launched. am gonna ignore option 3 as it boarders on the ridiculous. am not speculating 'bout how the separatists got their weapon or their training. am not asking why the folks shot down the plane. am simply observing that the sa-11 that shot down the airliner were either under ukranian or separatist control when it were fired... and for it to have been ukranian requires the near magical transportation o' the sa-11 system through separatist controlled territory where they then shot down a commercial plane, and then retreated to ukranian held territory without anybody the wiser for their depravity... all o' which strains credulity as much as does the russian option we discarded. HA! Good Fun!

http://t.co/zShZb0q1Xe seeing as how espoused goals o' hamas is to eliminate israel and that they believe that no part o' palestine can be relinquished as, in its entirety, plaestine is a holy possession o' the muslim people, am wondering to whom this statement is properly applied: "It bothers me that these people could wipe out a nation and manipulate perception into making themselves the good guys." sounds more like hamas goals and tactics. and israel clear don't wanna wipe out the people o' gaza or even hamas. the arab casualties in gaza would be far higher if israel were aiming for genocide (which is functional impossible too as in spite of israeli military capabilities, is no way they can eleimitate the arabs.) israel want to hurt hamas, but they don't actual wanna eliminate them. a weak and friendless hamas is easy to counter. israel doesn't want another power vacuum in gaza. last time there was such a political void, hamas came to power. israel is going in to bloody hamas. conversely, the arab nations bordering israel has literally tried to exterminate the jews from so-called palestine multiple times. the US, recognizing the promises made to the jews by the British in 1917 and the UN in 1947, has given support to israel (albeit lukewarm support at times) its only dependable and constant ally in the region. to abandon israel to the tender mercies o' the arabs o' the region would be seen as a profound act o' bad faith. as for the media, we think far too many news outlets is caught up in the tragedy o' civilian casualties given that this is exactly the fight hamas were provoking. news outlets appear to be going out o' there way to downplay the misdeeds o' hamas while lamenting the loss o' innocent human life in gaza. perhaps your real question should be why isn't the arab powers acting or concerned? the west knows better than to get involved save for sending peace negotiators and giving melodramatic speeches at the UN. is far more curious why the arab powers is ignoring the "plight" of hamas. why don't the arab powers care 'bout all those dead palestinian children in gaza? HA! Good Fun!

http://t.co/zShZb0q1Xe HA! Good Fun!

live and learn: the russians shoulda' thought ahead and given the separatist the part o' the system with the more advanced IFF interrogator. 'course getting the separatist up-to-speed so that they could utilize the stand-alone launcher were probable a difficult enough task. *sigh* covertly supplying arms were so much easier a few decades ago. HA! Good Fun! ps keep in mind that the alternative is that the ukranians managed to get their complete buk system deep into separatist territory near snizhae, where they then fired on a commercial airliner and then managed to fight or sneak back to ukranian territory without anybody noticing. somebody got a tinfoil hat?

and that is one o' the problems... and why we asked which western powers. US only has one real ally in the middle east: israel. not only that, most americans, even with mounting casualties in gaza, support the idf actions. so, take US sanctions off the table for the nonce as they don't seem at all realistic. sure, if death toll gets too high, the US will threaten, by which time the idf will probable be moping up and preparing for the next major hamas conflict 2 years from now. the only reason we can rationalize israel suffering so much o' the ridiculous rocket attacks in the first place is to keep US happy. HA! Good Fun! ps am guessing you can stretch things a bit and claim that the saudis is american allies... kinda. our current "allies" in the mideast dislike hamas almost same as they hate israel.

If the rebels for some reason decided not to use radar-guided SAMs so as not to somehow repeat the MH-17 incident or to discredit claims that they had an SA-11, and used infrared or SACLOS-guided MANPADS or other SHORAD instead, then it would be a bit difficult since anti-radiation missiles are dependent on the threat having a radiating emitter in order to guide to the target. They don't have radar guided missiles, or barely have any. They might have that Buk, but whether or not it functions is under question. Nevertheless, even if it does, they only have one unit and they don't have the radar platform it's supposed to come with. Buk on its own does have a small radar, but it can only "see" as far as 25 km from itself at 120 degrees in front of itself. So in order to see a target that's flying at 10km altitude, the target has to pass the Buk only a few kilometers away from it, and it should happen in front of the Buk too (and since target locking takes a while because controls are unusable **** from what I've read, it has to fly slowly lol). Considering their large and constantly shifting front line, having 1 Buk and hoping to see an enemy plane fly just over that Buk is like hoping for a miracle. If their only buk does work, that is. They're bringing down frogfoots with heat seeking missiles like the ones launched by Igla. Here's the radar the Buk is supposed to work in tandem with. misinformation http://www.businessinsider.com/buk-missiles-used-to-shoot-down-mh17-2014-7 the sa-11 missile launcher can operate as a stand-alone platform. please read the graphic taken from a Jane's source. inability to accurate identify aircraft is a limitation o' the stand-alone sa-11... which were exactly the problem. oops. HA! Good Fun!

Yeah that's the point I've made several times, the IDF should have used a ground invasion from the beginning. Yes they would suffer more casualties but they reduce civilian deaths and allow it allows them to be more surgical I think you just gave the reason why they didn't do it, they really can't or won't allow themselves to get into an actual conflict where they could lose manpower. Its a kind of admirable forward thinking strategy, play the war today whilst preparing for the wars to come. I'm more concerned about the lack of action by Western powers, I wish I had a reason to explain why that didn't become a conspiracy theory. am not being snarky when we ask which western powers and what action you would wish. the brits were there for decades. HA! Good Fun!

http://online.wsj.com/articles/u-s-officials-lay-out-case-against-russians-1406063846 is amusing. same info as yesterday, but different title will no doubt confuse folks who thought US had exonerated russia. *chuckle* HA! Good Fun!

"Fine, but then we must also blame every single voter in Israel. Let's not forget how exactly Israel was formed and what the origins of it's leadership is (terrorists)" you need a history lesson. don't just read those new 50 page history textbooks hamas has been using in gaza schools. scroll back up and you may read how israel was formed. there were indeed more than a few zionist terrorists operating in the british mandate, but your suggestion, while near 100 years remote (or 66 depending on how sherman sets the way-back machine) is such a ridiculous overstatement it don't even bear consideration. ultimately, the way israel were formed is that the british gave up and left the mandate territory. a day later, every bordering arab nation attacked the jews living in the mandate region (1/3 of the population) with the intention 'o driving them out or exterminating them. contrary to most prognostications, the jewish folks in the mandate survived. oh, and thanks to the parliamentary system, many nations got elements in power the majority would otherwise wish to ignore. am equal able to call britain and france fascist states 'cause they has had some nut jobs gain political power from time-to-time. "Interesting line of thought. Heh, reminds me of the jackal that said every Israeli is a target due to their mandatory military service (I guess the Orthodox hawks are safe in that scheme)." the whole civilian casualties bit is fluid to the point o' near meaninglessness. yeah, am suspecting there is a line that needs not be crossed, but no doubt the hypocrisy o' the situation is not lost on hamas and the idf. US and nato allies has all, at one time or another, ignored the dangers faced by civilians during various conflicts. russia and former soviet bloc is as bad if not worse. heck, the chinese has been targeting its own populations more than foreign powers for quite some time. civilian casualties look bad on tv... the folks sitting safe at home can wring their hands and lament the terrible loss o' human life. israel is likely most concerned 'bout civilian casualties 'cause o' the need for continued western (US) support. genuine peace negotiations has not paid off for israel in the past and we suspect that they is only pretending to go through the motions nowadays. hamas is concerned 'bout civilian casualties in a wholly perverse manner. why should Gromnir care 'bout civilian casualties in gaza if hamas clearly does not? sadly, we still do care 'bout civilian casualties in gaza, 'cause we ain't as monstrous and desperate as hamas. the terrorist suicide-bombers that the people in gaza elected has managed to force the idf into a confrontation in the streets o' gaza. well congrats to them on their brilliant tactical maneuvering that will get many gazans killed and make many more homeless, and all for an ultimately pointless conflict that will be repeated two or three years from today. am not certain why some folks feel the need to paint one side or the other as the good guys or as victims. HA! Good Fun!

And some, admittedly very few, have realized that you can buy games also after their release month. That said, this doesn't look very good. Either the game's a mess and they are taking all the time they can physically have to finish it into some semblance of shape... or November's less crowded this year than it's been in the last few and they're profiting of it to give their first game on the new engine and after two... controversial ones an extra layer of polish. Still, colour me worried. we bought mass effect 3 just over a year after its initial release. by waiting, we got a more stable and polished product and we got it cheaper-- though not as cheap as we had expected. am not sure why, but we were expecting a 50% markdown. seems like a short delay to be getting concerned bout 'specially as ea ain't even moving da:i release out o' the same fiscal quarter. heck, they is still making the release contemporaneous with Thanksgiving and other than the aforementioned PoE, we can't think o' other major crpgs being released at the same time. too early for us to do chicken little. 'course we again plan on waiting 12 months before buying the recent bioware release, so... HA! Good Fun!

ground operations is aimed at tunnels and taking out hamas assets. those assets include rockets... which is why the idf makes sure to let folks know every time they find a cache o' rockets. now that the egyptian escape tunnels is unavailable to hamas, the idf can actual capture hamas persons and material. oh, and so we don't forget, you were complaining o' disproportionate casualties Before the ground invasion, so forgive us if you is coming off as a bit disingenuous. go back and look at a year-by-year breakdown o' rocket attacks. the year following the last significant ground incursion into gaza by the idf also saw the fewest rocket attacks in recent memory. is kinda sad that a mere 150 attacks is considered a major accomplishment. honestly, how screwed-up is it that 150 attacks is considered a win for israel? am recalling when we lived in the midwest and there were tornado alerts. as a kid it were kinda scary but as we grew older we got kinda blasé about tornado alerts. they were so random. there were nothing you could genuine do to prepare. get in your basement and make sure you got a first aid kit on hand... listen to radio waiting for alert to end. were maybe a few times a year we had to endure such. tornadoes were act o' God kinda stuff. take similar randomness and fear o' having your home explode but make it not the result o' weather but o' some terrorist group, and make such moments occur literal hundreds or thousands o' times a year. ... 150 is a good year? the idf wanted this fight. bad on them. hamas wanted this fight. bad on them. regardless, the disproportionate casualty numbers is hardly surprising or meaningful. numbers is disproportionate 'cause o' how and where hamas is fighting... and the civilian population knew what hamas was about when they freaking went and elected hate-spewing suicide bombers into power. we feel bad for folks in gaza and israel, but am not seeing how folks can be so shocked and appalled given how predictable this all were. only thing more predictable is the global outrage. by mid/end next month, it is likely the idf action will largely be finished and some new world tragedy will move to page 1. israel will be able to enjoy a peaceful 2015 in which they only get ~150 rocket attacks, and life will be even worse in gaza as ordinary folks try and rebuild their homes and lives while hamas uses money to build new tunnels and rockets in preparation for the next conflict two years hence. the global outrage will fade... predictably. HA! Good Fun!

If the threat from the rockets was that great the IDF would have invaded en masse, like they did when Hezbollah had their rocket offensive. The IDF know air strikes and artillery won't solve the problem which is exactly what makes the strikes punitive rather than decisive. 300+ people have died, if not for nothing then for very little gained in both Hamas capacity and Israli security. I don't understand why they would set out to be punitive in that environment. For the benifit of the voters ? To be seen to be doing something ? ... wait a sec. the fact that the idf didn't go in and carpet-bomb the place and is instead putting their own civilians and soldiers at risk to be more surgical is proof that their actions is "punitive rather than decisive"? did that make sense? hamas was able to dictate where this fight would take place. hamas wanted the fight to take place in one o' the most densely populated places on earth. hamas, an organization with the expressed purpose o' destroying israel through force o' arms, was put in power by the people o' gaza. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-13331522 who the hell democratically elects a terrorist organization into power? the pictures o' wailing palestinian women as they stand over the bodies o' their broken children is cause for grief, but there is a great deal o' responsibility to go around when we reference civilian casualties. blame idf, but you also better blame hamas and the not-so-innocent civilians who voted hamas into power if you is gonna be honest. HA! Good Fun!

am suspecting a venn diagram o' PoE and DA:i purchasers would be showing considerable overlap. all one need do is look at the "which games will you be playing soon" threads here and at other crpg sites to recognize that a goodly number o' folks who were anticipating the release o' PoE were also planning on buying DA:i. that being said, some % o' folks have the means and wherewithal to purchase both games regardless o' release date timing. am also thinking that obsidian could be pushing back their release date following their beta... 'cause gosh, that never happens, yes? it will be interesting to watch how this all unfolds. HA! Good Fun!

caution: sweary. ... honest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UsGEyz_2rE best part is actual the you-tube comments. HA! Good Fun!

... when you folks drink the kool-aid you is serious. HA! Good Fun!

the current vehicle it is meant to replace (lcac) is designed for speed as much as anything else. arleigh burke class destroyers move at a good clip-- over 30 kn. the lcac tops out near 45kn (our knot to kph conversion is wonky... is that 70kph?) the flipper treadmill thingie will be a 20 kn vehicle. if you is half as fast, you ought to be better protected. HA! Good Fun!