Gromnir

disagree. we noted already/elsewhere that far too many o' longknife complaints were based on fundamental misconceptions. the poe paladin is s'posed to be a support class... is s'posed to be a low-maintenance support class with admirable defensive qualities and powerful single target heals, debuffs and cleanses. is nothing wrong with that concept. is other poe classes that can fill striker roles in a multitude o' fashions, and if you want the paladin to be a better tank than it already is, we can suggest alternative classes as well. *shrug* am not saying all your suggestions is bad, but point to longknife complaints is a bad start. HA! Good Fun!

Well, I 100% agree with this. The issue is I'd much rather have a Priest than a Paladin and Paladin's array of unique benefits gets much worse if you have both, so its questionable if he's worth his party slot. To sum up: There's NO synergy between level 1 priest buffs and paladin auras (except zealous charge). They make each other redundant. Luckily for him, priest has 5 more levels of buffs though. Why does the conclusion always end up being "id rather have a priest than a paladin"? With that kind of logic, you might as well make a party consisting of a priest, druid, wizard, cipher, and 2 monks. Why bother with any other class? Fighters? Garbage. Rogues? Garbage. Chanters? Garbage. Paladins? Garbage. Rangers? Garbage. the amusing thing is, Gromnir were kinda a lone voice in the darkness claiming that priests were our favorite class amongst the beta testers. we didn't see 'em as a most powerful class, but we were the only guy that chose 'em in the couple o' class mvp threads that spawned during the beta. we were also one o' the few folks who claimed that they were powerful. am not being hyperbolic about being the only guy vocal favoring priests neither. *shrug* the paladin, in our estimation, could use work, but we can say the same o' all the classes. we find the knightly order class o' poe to be a bit boring, but that ain't an actual flaw o' the class as it is part o' the design philosophy o' paladins to be low-maintenance. that being said, paladins is actually our second favorite class choice for a pc 'cause o' dialogue choices aligning with our notion o' good attributes for a paladin. we tend to boost perception, intelligence and resolve as we see those attributes most frequent showing up in conversations with npcs (companion and otherwise.) those three attributes are also our targets for a capable paladin, so am not needing to sacrifice attributes to get dialogues. additionally, we are of the opinion that paladins are not nearly as crappy as the mob currently believes. a paladin and a priest make a very effective duo. the priest need not waste efforts on revives or cleanses or a single large heal as long as we got a paladin present. would we want a paladin to be our only support character, or pair it with a chanter? probable not, but we like it very much with a priest. am not seeing wanting to pair the paladin with a priest as a shortcoming o' the class. our most notable complaint regarding paladins is that too many o' their abilities are of only situational use, and perhaps obsidian split too many abilities up into pieces so that we need must take additional talents or abilities to make our limited support choices actual useful. want flames of devotion? ok, but you actual need take intense flames for it to be useful... or at least useful enough for Gromnir. similarly, am thinking that the special powers o' the paladin orders should not require a second talent/ability. example: kind wayfarers should get per kill benefits once they choose inspiring triumph. needs take a second talent to unlock the benefits o' the order's special qualities is, in our mind, excessive. the situational use o' many paladin abilities, coupled with the unnecessary splintering of abilities and talents makes our usable pool o' potential abilities for any individual paladin a bit unsatisfying. the paladin could use work, but we can say the same o' all the classes. the only class we do not like is the ranger. what appears to set the ranger apart from the rogue as a heavy-hitter is the animal companion, and the animal companion is awkward. am not seeing a good way to fix Gromnir's problems with the ranger w/o complete redesigning the animal companions or getting rid o' the critters... but as the beasties is what make rangers unique... *shrug* we don't particular like chanters, but we don't think they are a terrible class. we find paladin gameplay a bit boring, but we believe they actual contribute a great deal as a support class. we dislike rangers. sorry, but there is no "but" for the rangers. as much as we dislike class systems, and as much as we observed early in development that classes were regretfully understandable (and possibly necessary) baggage from the ie games that were deserving o' a perfunctory viking funeral before embracing a more egalitarian class free system, we concede that the 11 classes, with one exception, is unique, well-crafted and engaging. the classes ain't perfect or even close to perfect, but am genuine surprised at how much entertainment we is getting from making use o' different class combinations. HA! Good Fun!

*groan* you didn't. that is the problem. zealous charge is not the only aura that stacks with similar effects. duh. zealous focus does actual stack with priestly abilities contrary to your protests. also, you couldn't find other references to zealous focus stacking, which is almost mind-boggling as clearly didn't look hard enough to see such stacking referenced in this thread. *shrug* you not see as ridiculous to observe how fast high level and high difficulty battles is w/o seeing the advantage o' a Zero casting time? okie dokie. am not sure where you think you is taking us, but am enjoying the ride. HA! Good Fun!

doesn't really matter. the aura is persistent and requires no initial casting-- significant advantages but hardly earth shaking. regardless, the ability does stack and stack effective. ...I actually was being sarcastic when I said it is awesome. The only thing that stacks effectively there are priest spells. Paladin is not providing +6 accuracy if a priest uses blessing, it is +1, which is nothing really. All paladin provides is +1 accuracy and +5% hit to crit. No synergy. Effectively anti synergy since you're overriding part of the blessing's effect. The only use for this is to actually AVOID casting blessing, which frees up some casting time for priest, and I would probably go this way if I had a zealous focus paladin (provided paladin's aura even reaches the back row, which is not always the case). Even then, if comparing zealous focus vs blessing directly, blessing is better since +15% dmg > 5% hit to crit, and +1 accuracy doesn't make up for it. So all it does is basically saving ~3sec of priest's casting time. You know, you can have a 2nd priest in place to cast ALL buffs twice as fast effectively. The fact that it's persistent hardly matters on mid-high levels. actually, at mid and high levels it is increasingly important. the developers played fast and loose with the casting times o' some foes at the start o' scripted battles. am not sure why enemies can get off spells almost instantaneously-- is more than a few such situations. our casters has been interrupted (or worse) at the start o' battles. so, with a paladin and a priest sharing the work, both characters can be doing something else during those precious seconds... and we need not have to worry 'bout recasting either. no casting time at all for the paladin, so even more is accomplished with the paladin and priest combo. but go ahead, keep ignoring the fact that you were wrong AND pretending it ain't a very useful combination. is funny. is particular funny since you thought you had made some kinda revelation without realizing you is simple the last in a considerable line o' obtuse posters who even once informed o' their error, continue on undeterred. funny. HA! Good Fun! ps what is it about the paladin threads that has folks abandoning their reason? is just plain weird. ...Where did I say I've made some revelation? I've just pointed out that Zealous charge is the only aura that is not largely made redundant by priest spells, which i still stand by. Recasting is hardly an issue on high Int priest, battles don't last that long. For trash battles you don't need the buffs, so limited uses are also mostly not an issue (and basic priest spells become per encounter @lvl 9). If your priest is getting CC'd right at the start of the fight you're having bigger problems than not being able to get that +6 accuracy buff. I haven't seen fights where I wasn't able to counter it with my own CC though. Seems to me I'm not the one who's being ignorant here. is funny. you tell us how quick the battles are at higher difficulties, but you don't see the advantage o' a persistent aura with no need for casting. keep at it though. oh, and have you admitted that you were wrong? btw, this is where you initial shared your (misinformed) revelation http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/77839-are-paladins-really-not-that-bad/?p=1670284 thanks for letting us know. you then followed it up by telling us you had tested priestly stacking with paladin auras. afterwards you informed us that you had searched the forums for examples o' priestly abilities stacking with zealous focus and found nothing. you told us all kinda wonderfully wrong stuff. is tough to keep up with just how mistaken you are. HA! Good Fun!

...I actually was being sarcastic when I said it is awesome. The only thing that stacks effectively there are priest spells. Paladin is not providing +6 accuracy if a priest uses blessing, it is +1, which is nothing really. All paladin provides is +1 accuracy and +5% hit to crit. No synergy. Effectively anti synergy since you're overriding part of the blessing's effect. The only use for this is to actually AVOID casting blessing, which frees up some casting time for priest, and I would probably go this way if I had a zealous focus paladin (provided paladin's aura even reaches the back row, which is not always the case). Even then, if comparing zealous focus vs blessing directly, blessing is better since +15% dmg > 5% hit to crit, and +1 accuracy doesn't make up for it. So all it does is basically saving ~3sec of priest's casting time. You know, you can have a 2nd priest in place to cast ALL buffs twice as fast effectively. The fact that it's persistent hardly matters on mid-high levels. actually, at mid and high levels it is increasingly important. the developers played fast and loose with the casting times o' some foes at the start o' scripted battles. am not sure why enemies can get off spells almost instantaneously-- is more than a few such situations. our casters has been interrupted (or worse) at the start o' battles. so, with a paladin and a priest sharing the work, both characters can be doing something else during those precious seconds... and we need not have to worry 'bout recasting either. no casting time at all for the paladin, so even more is accomplished with the paladin and priest combo. but go ahead, keep ignoring the fact that you were wrong AND pretending it ain't a very useful combination. is funny. is particular funny since you thought you had made some kinda revelation without realizing you is simple the last in a considerable line o' obtuse posters who even once informed o' their error, continue on undeterred. funny. HA! Good Fun! ps what is it about the paladin threads that has folks abandoning their reason? is just plain weird.

so, instead o' admitting you were wrong, you continue on unmindful o' your error? kinda deserving o' insult. and our illumination o' your errors is no different now than it were a few posts ago. only difference is you compound error. heck, even eub had the honesty to admit his error. you were wrong. you are wrong. in every paladin thread this exact same issue gets raised and yet there is always at least one guy who blunders on oblivious to the fact that the issue is obsolete and that the individual's mistake in assuming that there is no stacking with priestly abilities is some kinda epiphany. the paladin aura stacks with the priestly ability, and stacks very effective. as you finally admitted, +11% accuracy, +15% damage and +5% crit. the paladin's +6% accuracy boost is persistent. the paladin provides +6% accuracy and +5% crit before, during and after the priest casts his spells. the priest could instead choose to cast dire blessing, which also stacks, and the the same +11% accuracy would remain... though actual damage output would be increased. and yes, the combo is a very effective synergy inspite o' your silly attempts to dismiss. is actual a more useful combination than your chanter example given the chanting mechanic. regardless, the chant is not the only example, is it? oh well. HA! Good Fun!

*shakes head sadly* you could search even in this post and you would find how zealous focus is gonna stack with priest abilities. not need to look very hard. the crit bonus is not as insignificant as you make it seem, particular as it is potential party-wide and persistent, but for funsies, add in the actual full range o' bonuses from the first level priest spell you wanted to dismiss as being overridden by zealous foucs: bless. is probable the poor reading skills that made you overlook something important. so, inspiring radiance + zealous focus+ bless results in what kinda synergy from combination o' persistent aura, a per encounter ability and a lowly first level priest spell... but again, this is all repeated. you were wrong. dead wrong. horribly and morbidly wrong 'cause you didn't bother genuine looking for answers even after you were informed that you were wrong. HA! Good Fun!

... where does all the misinformation come from, or is it nothing more than that folks extrapolate hasty conclusions from shoddy premises? is any number o' ways to get the auras to stack with various effects and spells. priests have a number o' ways o' enhancing aspects o' the paladins' zealous focus, making the combination o' the two support classes working in concert particularly formidable. unfortunately, in each paladin thread we needs necessarily deal with the same misapprehensions again and again and again and againandagaianandagainanadagainanadagain... am s'posing as a timesaver you could simple look up eubatham posts in previous paladin threads and see where he were corrected 'bout crit calculations and stacking and that sorta thing. HA! Good Fun! I tested everything myself, thank you very much. Zealous focus doesn't stack with accuracy buff spells. It's hit-to-crit enhancement might (didn't test), but 5% hit to crit is not that great for a talent, even party wide. Well, if you have nothing else to pick then maybe. It does stack with +ranged/melee accuracy buffs which seem to be a different effect. Priest has both types however. Lvl 1 priest accuracy buff doesn't stack with zealous focus. Zealous endurance doesn't stack with armor of faith at all. again, do a search. being ignorant is not a crime. being willfull ignorant is unforgivable. you are correct that level 1 bless accuracy boost does not stack with zealous focus. and from that you extrapolate a general rule o' application? do the search. honest. HA! Good Fun! As I said, critical boost might stack (and probably does) but you're effectively picking 1 class ability and a talent for 5% hit to crit conversion which is like 2% dps increase effectively, even though it's party wide. *sigh* is closer to 2-3% dps... depending on other factors. so is similar to a pervasive point o' might increase for an entire party if you build a high intelligence paladin, but you are missing the point. do the search. really. consider this a teaching moment, or not. HA! Good Fun!

... where does all the misinformation come from, or is it nothing more than that folks extrapolate hasty conclusions from shoddy premises? is any number o' ways to get the auras to stack with various effects and spells. priests have a number o' ways o' enhancing aspects o' the paladins' zealous focus, making the combination o' the two support classes working in concert particularly formidable. unfortunately, in each paladin thread we needs necessarily deal with the same misapprehensions again and again and again and againandagaianandagainanadagainanadagain... am s'posing as a timesaver you could simple look up eubatham posts in previous paladin threads and see where he were corrected 'bout crit calculations and stacking and that sorta thing. HA! Good Fun! I tested everything myself, thank you very much. Zealous focus doesn't stack with accuracy buff spells. It's hit-to-crit enhancement might (didn't test), but 5% hit to crit is not that great for a talent, even party wide. Well, if you have nothing else to pick then maybe. It does stack with +ranged/melee accuracy buffs which seem to be a different effect. Priest has both types however. Lvl 1 priest accuracy buff doesn't stack with zealous focus. Zealous endurance doesn't stack with armor of faith at all. again, do a search. being ignorant is not a crime. being willfull ignorant is unforgivable. you are correct that level 1 bless accuracy boost does not stack with zealous focus. and from that you extrapolate a general rule o' application? do the search. honest. HA! Good Fun!

... where does all the misinformation come from, or is it nothing more than that folks extrapolate hasty conclusions from shoddy premises? is any number o' ways to get the auras to stack with various effects and spells. priests have a number o' ways o' enhancing aspects o' the paladins' zealous focus, making the combination o' the two support classes working in concert particularly formidable. unfortunately, in each paladin thread we needs necessarily deal with the same misapprehensions again and again and again and againandagaianandagainanadagainanadagain... am s'posing as a timesaver you could simple look up eubatham posts in previous paladin threads and see where he were corrected 'bout crit calculations and stacking and that sorta thing. HA! Good Fun! ps we were gonna correct eub regarding the efficacy o' paladin revive, but what is the point, eh?

*sigh* you can customize the heck out o' the poe classes, but they are classes. distinct. separate. unique. our favorite build so far is a priest with the following stats: m 10 c 10 d 10 p 16 i 16 r 16 priest o' wael with incomprehensible revelation, peasant weapon focus, two-handed weapons, scion o' flame and skill points mostly in mechanics and lore. is an excellent combatant who can near guarantee crits with seal (the arcane traps, not the marine mammals) spells and has access to a large % o' dialogue options. again, with a quarterstaff in hand, the priest is an excellent combatant, even with sub-optimal attributes. even so, it would be ridiculous for Gromnir to try and improve the priest class 'cause we observe that priests make poor tanks. and as good as we is at dealing hurt in combat, we can't compare with a dedicated dps monk build or a rogue. we got loads o' options with general talents to customize how we wish. that is also part o' the developer vision. given the limitations o' the classes, we still got incredible room to customize. but you know what, no matter what we do with the priest, we should not be able to make it exceed a rogue for damage potential with melee weapons. ... whatever paladin order you choose and however you customize, the paladin is still designed as a support class. did you read the link? am thinking that few folks do. we got other links but we can't even get folks to read the one we already provided. HA! Good Fun!

am understanding your point, and Gromnir keeps trying to tell you that you are failing to understand the point that obsidian made regarding the paladin dozens o' times. obsidian were not obscure. is not a matter o' difference o' opinion that you is seeming purposeful trying to force the round peg paladin into the square hole expectations you got for the class. fix support features o' paladin so the class is more engaging or more efficacious? sure, that makes sense. 'course what you is doing is latching onto words such as "fighter" or martial" and reading into poe classes a plethora o' attributes that they do not have, never had, and were never s'posed to have. your initial misconceptions is forgivable and perfectly reasonable as obsidian did use familiar names for their classes while giving those classes atypical qualities. the disconnect were predictable. nevertheless, once you have been presented with obsidian plans and view o' the poe paladin, you (and many like you) continue to embrace your misconception as the appropriate direction for the class. is... weird. if obsidian had given the poe paladin a different name... HA! Good Fun!

The abilities that are in the actual game were put there by the developers too. You seem to be ignoring that part. Mistaking them with their counterparts in other games is not the issue; I'm just looking at other things besides your link. If you improve solely their support, they'll still have problems, unless you just revamp the whole class from their current state (which is about the same as in DnD in practice, regardless of the original intention). If you want to quote stuff that the devs wrote, this is from their description in game: So I'm not pulling the "warrior" part of the class out of my ass. you can selective quote all you want. on literal dozens o' occasions, obsidian stated that paladins in poe is a support class. scroll up and see where your fellow poster quoted from the linked material that the role o' the paladin is as a support character. "Area designer Bobby Null has always liked the marshal class from D&D 3.5, which is conceptually similar to the warlord in 4E: combat leaders who are at their best when they are augmenting their teammates. This is the approach that I took when developing Project Eternity's paladins. They have persistent modal auras, strong single-target healing and buff abilities (contrasting the broad AoE effects of clerics), and can passively grant bonuses to teammates in close proximity." paladins is specific identified as a support class whose primary function is to buff, cleanse and heal their party members. "martial" don't necessarily mean that they can dps in poe. martial don't necessarily mean that they tank. perhaps to YOU martial means that a paladin should be able to wield a sword with similar efficacy as rogues, but obsidian has specific stated, many times, that the paladin role is support. utilizing the General talents, paladins can be made adequate with weapons, but that ain't their role. *shrug* you are being willful obtuse and am not certain why this obtuseness regarding the paladin is so damned pervasive... other than our earlier observation 'bout the naming choice. poe paladins don't match what you believe they is conceptual 'posed to do, so you ignore what obsidian has unambiguously stated 'bout the role o' paladins. well congrats, but this is yet another critical failure on your part. play a monk. wanna tank and do some serious damage while tanking? play a monk as that is the class for it. play a priest. wanna play a support character that can have extreme high accuracy with at least 1 weapon? you can do that with a priest. those thing you want you can get from poe, but you cannot necessarily get them from the poe paladin. so play something other than a paladin. is a class-based system, so not every class will, or should be able to do everything. it should be obvious that the more classes you got, the more narrowly defined the class roles must be to keep them unique. the poe paladin is a low-maintenance support character with admirable defensive qualities that is 'posed to have powerful single-target heals, cleanses and debuffs. that is their role. where they fail in that role is where it needs be fixed. make 'em do more dps? nope. but they wear armour? but they are in knightly orders? so freaking what? we went through this earlier that the word "fighter" did not prevent obsidian from designing that cass initially as a low-maintenance tank character. ... the inability o' folks to overcome the naming hurdle/obstacle is something we find a bit amusing, but no doubt the obsidians is more frustrated by the quixotic behaviour o' some o' the community. HA! Good Fun!

call 'em laughable as support, but that is s'posed to be the role they fulfill. trying to redefine them 'cause you do not like how they currently perform in a support role is foolish. Your definition o' what paladins is and should be runs smack up against what the developers has said that paladins are. they is low-maintenance support characters with excellent defensive qualities that are particularly adept at providing single target heals, debuffs and cleanses. your redefining is pointless. make the paladin better at support sounds like a worthy goal, but make'em better at tanky and dps is misguided at best. btw, a couple per kill abilities, ones that get use perhaps once every 15 seconds is hardly transforming paladins into a dps class. you can use talents to make paladins perfect capable o' getting a couple successful hits per battle, particularly as you have potential 5 other party members that can render foes prone, paralyzed, petrified, blind, and a host o' other status effects that makes 'em easy pickings. not need to improve the Paladin to get a couple hits per battle. oh, and is not as if you need take those abilities as they is optional. weak. regardless, if you think paladins is a support/tank hybrid, then the improvements o' the paladin should obviously be focused on the support aspects o' the class, 'cause you already concede, and the beta backers know, that particular given that the paladin is a support character, it is very durable. nopt need to improve the tankyness o' the support character that is already at least arguable on par with a fighter. *chuckle* disagree with Gromnir? no. disagree with the developers. is not a link to a Gromnir post after all. critical failure indeed. as to the naming o' fighters, we agree that the name choice is stoopid. we have mentioned numerous times that if the obsidian folks wanted fighters to be low-maintenance tanks (and they were more so before beta backers complained that fighters couldn't kill good enough) then obsidian should not have used same name as the ie class. paladins and rogues and other classes has been suffering many complaints that have no basis save for the expectations created by their naming. you is preaching to the choir if you suggest that the names is misleading... but you aren't. you don't seem to get that while the poe paladin is named same as bg2 paladin and the fighter is named same as bg2 fighter, their roles is intended to be different. and around we go... again. HA! Good Fun!

I wouldn't say Paladins are better tanks, keep in mind that Fighters can use Vigorous Defense (turning their defenses to +35/+30/+30/+30 for 15 sec) once per encounter, but more importantly is that Fighters have Critical Defense (turning 20% of incoming crits into hits and 10% of hits into grazes) which is a ridiculously powerful talent. Anyway, I'm willing to concede the point only for the fact that some of the most staunch defenders of the Paladins class, calling the Paladin "A great class that simply plays different from other classes and that people are playing them wrong", have brought up your exact quote about Paladin tanks as "proof" to back their claims. That you're disagreeing with them yourself is simply amusing to see. am recalling what you reference. is more eub obtuseness. the link to beta comments were specific tailored to respond to the observation that 95% o' current posters were finding the fighter to be the clear best tank. we noted that in the beta, after many months o' gameplay, folks were split regarding best tank. fighter v. paladin had no consensus winner, and a few beta backers actual suggested that chanters were best. think paladins have design problems? sure. we noted that we personal find paladins to be boring. nevertheless, the observation that fighter were a clear win over paladins in the tank department as proven by boardie feedback is not only ridiculous but it is rejected by beta backer experience. nevertheless, we do find your posts to be amusing in a doggedly myopic kinda way. keep at it. that being said, we will once again observe that the requests for improvement o' the paladin is typical misguided. give paladin better dps and better tank capabilities ignores the point that it is s'posed to be a support class. there is already a fix that gives people what they is clamoring for from the paladin: play a monk. the folks who want their paladin to be a durable knight that can also do some serious dps is playing the wrong freaking class. play a monk instead. paladins could use improvement, but some folks can't let go o' the notion that the poe paladin is not a d&d 3.5 paladin or a bg2 paladin. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63968-update-56-paladins-and-wild-orlans/?p=1342013 experience proves our efforts to be futile, but am gonna keep posting the link til folks read it. HA! Good Fun!

the stronghold hirelings still become permanently hostile in 1.04 and their hostility is contagious so that keep guests also go berserk. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/76257-bug-stronghold-hirelings-guests-attack-hero-party-on-sight/ HA! Good Fun!

don't need more orlan. there is dozens o' orlan images available. friendly orlan sinister orlan etc. HA! Good Fun!

the odd absence o' a rogue companion is part o' the problem. the fact that mechanics is a curious no-brainer skill for priests is also an issue and is the one serious balance concern we have regarding mechanics. final coffin nail is poe trap cheese, but only the degenerative/exploitative player is gonna go that route, so am not bothered. poe skills ain't that unbalanced, but there are... quirks. easiest fix would be to make the starting backgrounds a bit more significant regarding starting skill bonuses and to complete remove the class bonuses for skills. is no good reason for class bonuses, particularly with some classes missing from the pool o' obsidian crafted joinable npcs. HA! Good Fun!

Given their dearth of active abilities, I'm not sure combining two of their primary actives and then reducing them to once per encounter (or twice with a talent) is a good idea. When the flames/hands are out, the paladin loses a lot of its flavor and even a large boost to attack will lose it's relevance, at later levels, when compared to abilities that can be used more frequently and/or against more targets. from a practical pov, he isn't reducing the number of active abilities, at least not early in the game. currently, at first level, you must needs choose flames Or lay on hands. furthermore, to current make flames actual useful, you is effective required to take the intense flames talent. the option presented by ruminate actual allows a typical player to choose more o' those rare abilities as flames and lay on heals has been combined and would be more effective before we reach level 4+ and spent additional talents on them. HA! Good Fun!

nonsense. again, you are trying far too hard to prove a point and you are going to absurd lengths to do so. *shrug* you list all the things a paladin can do? wonderful, but those ain't the things a paladin does do. you gotta pick and choose from your optimistic list o' cleanses and buffs and defenses. as we noted earlier, by levels 6-8, halfway through the game, you are lucky if you got three abilities and chances are that at least one or two such abilities is gonna be o' situational use. not blind strike situational or knockdown situational, but liberating or reviving exhortation usefulness. be reasonable. so, you distinguish paladins from low-maintenance options 'cause with particular builds you needs watch health o' mooks so that you might be able to activate a defensive or heal ability if you score a kill every 15 seconds or so? great. we already noted that the issue o' being boring is subjective, but your efforts are making the question seem far less subjective than we suggested. HA! Good Fun!

many battles do not require the very limited or specific cleanses the paladin can offer. many battles do not require a revive. many battles do not require a large, single-target heal. etc. are the auras useful ubiquitous? hell yeah. the auras is more useful than many folks suggest, but as a paladin, the auras is modal and is gonna be left active all the time. is paladin defenses great? sure, but they is also passive. *shrug* am thinking you are working way too hard to try and deny that the paladin is a low-maintenance class... one that is bordering on approaching auto-pilot for many battles. that were a selling point o' the class, btw. developers made no attempt to hide or deny that paladins were low-maintenance. is there a few per-kill abilities that require attention? sure, but with our typical high int builds, we get one such opportunity every 15 seconds, which for most battles means we need only pay attention to dying mooks 1 or 2 times. huzzah. btw, fighters were more low maintenance in earlier builds than they currently is. people complained. beta backers complained that fighters were dull. abilities were added. sadly, we think that a few o' the fighter changes were not for the better, but folks did complain, and fighters, in spite o' being primarily a tank class, have more universal useful options than does paladins. HA! Good Fun!

am not sure what battle we had that involved accidental injuring a hireling with an aoe, but it were a LONG ways back in our gameplay. the thing is, any guest or hireling that would normally spawn in the main keep now becomes hostile. even worse, the special guests is immortal. even after killing the dunryd (sp?) psion a dozen times, every time we re-enter the keep, the psion is present and hostile. we can fire most hirelings and enter the keep to get to the prison or wherever, but am getting tired of having to kill the psion all the time, and am pretty much certain that manual resolution o' stronghold attacks must end for us. a 1.05 fix? HA! Good Fun!

"paladins is most effective when using killing blows, we must needs always be aware o' what enemies is unhealthy enough to make them attractive targets o' opportunity. move 'round the battlefield to get the right target takes some consideration." All non-caster classes have few active abilities, of which this few a significant portion is situational. Those abilities also tend to be usable more frequently, on an encounter-by-encounter basis, than the per-rest spells of versatile casters. At least, that was the presumed intention behind limiting spells to per rest. Is a quirk of poor implementation that caster spells are effectively per encounter, if the user is so inclined. There do exist certain snowflake classes which possess alternative methods o' action economy, but they is in the distinct minority. not actual true. most non casters have per encounter or per-rest abilities that are useful in pretty much every encounter. things such as rogue blind strike and fighter knockdown is gonna be situational more or less useful in a given battle, but they is always useful. the true situational use abilities is the exception rather than the rule... which is perfectly understandable. make abilities that you don't get regular or frequent use o' is a peculiar design approach. paladins, on the other hand, is a support class that will frequently have no useful abilities to apply in a battle. is a support class that is potential doing very little to support. the mere presence o' the paladin can be important to the party, and in some limited situations the paladin can be a game changer, but frequently the paladin is reduced to pew-pew. HA! Good Fun!

as an aside, there is more than a few npc paladin builds that we would not wanna spend a talent to get full faith and conviction bonuses. lack o' universal desirability is a positive as we don't want poe talents that is no-brainers. HA! Good Fun!

am recalling she is a smidge under 5'. HA! Good Fun!