Gromnir

baldur's gate and baldur's gate 2 also allowed you to play with a player generated party, so... *shrug* HA! Good Fun!

the butthurt is at least partial explainable. check out the something awful forums. 1/4 of rope kid's (josh sawyer's posting name) contributions in the poe thread(s) is factual corrections o' a small number codexians. is multiple +200-+500 threads at this point, so am not recommending a full read, but WARNING: the following site does not have the same language filter as does obsidian. ... you have been warned, yes? ... http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3706905&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 we would highlight particular posts, but there is no need to further emasculate certain folks. HA! Good Fun!

lay off workers for cheap foreign replacements? add robots is better, but it's not cyberpunk enough to be genuine interesting to us. DisneSoft becomes involved in the privatization o' prison and corrections and manages to get groovy new legislation passed. criminals can sell their brain space or bodies to get reduced sentences. DisneSoft could then use networked prisoners' sleeping brains to do complex computer processing tasks, or could use the functional lobotomized (albeit temporary) prisoners to do all kinda monotonous tasks for no pay save reduction o' sentences. program a serial rapist to do shaddysands job? have the rapist work 20 hours a day with no pay for 2 years to be getting sentence reduced from 8 years. even better, complex tech skills forced into the criminal brain would remain after completion o' sentence, and the criminal, once released, would have much better chance o' gaining employment... if not made irrelevant by other DisneSoft convict drones. wake us up when this story brakes. HA! Good Fun!

the purpose o' a strong hold is mostly self explanatory, for wrestling moves and judo, one needs a strong hold to effectively grapple with an opponent. to be able to lock one's grip on an opponent's wrist, or perhaps even clothing, is an essential second step after, or simultaneous with, achieving position. a strong hold is also useful when attempting to open a jar o' pickles. what? Gromnir is responding to the title query. am not sure what you all is discussing. HA! Good Fun!

...W40K is also supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, despite Games Workshop's attempts lately at pretending it's totally not. "lately" has been going on for more than 5 years now... heck, probable since before the 4th edition. HA! Good Fun!

dark and gritty means... whatever. everybody got a personal definition. we like the warhammer 40k setting, but we find it to be borderline camp with how over-the-top grimdark it aspires to be. fallout, on the other hand, is intentional camp. fallout is funny. fallout is clear intended to be tongue-in-cheek. which is better? get photos o' omaha beach on d-day, or some other bloody battle. remind us that this is what victory looks like http://ww2today.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Omaha-beach-casualties.jpg ok, but do for +300 pages in a book or +40 hours in a game where we is constant reminded o' how hopeless everything is and it kinda loses impact. we like games where the good guys fail and the best resolution o' a quest might still remind us o' those omaha beach photos. is that dark and gritty? HA! Good Fun!

some observations made by decado is not aligning with Gromnir's opinions, but we don't see him as wrong for having such differences o' opinion. example: decado shares one o' the worst aspects o' the ie games for Gromnir and seeming sees the ie approach such as a positive. an ie character, midway through most o' those games, were more defined by gear than by any customization choices. yes, ie game and d&d customization were, until the tob expansion, almost complete limited to level 1 choices. weapon proficiencies and thief skills? that's it after level 1? nevertheless, using his bg2 loot examples, decado complete ignores that such gear made starting attributes of the ie characters almost entirely inconsequential. use shadowmaker to create a bg2 halfling berserker with all 5s for abilities. relative early in the game you will have opportunities to be finding gear that results in strength better than 18/00 as well as being able to get yourself 18s in constitution and dex. willingness to spend a little bit o' the ubiquitous gold available in bg2 results in purchasable potions and scrolls with which our enfeebled halfling will have ability scores in the 20s for pretty much all battles as well as complete immunities to... everything and anything. thanks to gear, our purposeful broken halfling could solo most bg2 battles. bg1 loot progression may actual have been worse than bg2, as hard as that is to believe. too much o' the bg loot were NOT appropriate for a typical level 1-7 adventure. available bg loot were what made it possible to solo drizz't... who deserved to die, but not at the hands o' a level six or seven... whatever. don't get us started on iwd. we did get josh to once admit that a few o' the stunning + elemental damage weapons available via iwd random drops were excessive. this were a Long time ago and josh were still young, so he threw feargus under the bus regarding a few o' the ridiculous overpowered random iwd drops. poe much improved the loot scheme compared to the ie games. recent obsidian offerings were hardly perfect balanced insofar as 1007s were concerned, and it seems that any game with feargus involved is gonna have at least a few overpowered and/or lamentably random drops o' gear, but compared to the ie games, poe is a massive and welcome step back from the monty haul nonsense we saw in the ie games. now, we do think it is wrong for decado to lament the meaninglessness o' poe attributes while at same time holding up ie game 1007 progression as keen in spite o' the fact that ie l00t did so much to diminish attribute value. even so, while Gromnir do not like for 100t to be a primary determinant o' character power and ability, there is nothing inherent wrong with that pov. we don't share decado opinion. have characters effective level through 1007 is perfectly viable, but is not our preference. on the other hand, suggesting that ie games, up to and including bg2 offered more meaningful class customization options strikes us as wholly fallacious. is not simple different opinion, but is wrong. am not sure how decado eventually played his paladin (started similar to the companion npc), but compare poe customization to bg2 customization options and finding poe lacking were baffling us. a wood elf kind wayfarer paladin focused on support can acquire the ranged weapon talents, sworn enemy, inspired triumph, strange mercy, and sword and sheppard abilities/talents, for a start. such a character is gonna play a dramatic different role in party combat compared to a wild orlan darcozzi paladini paladin (that is rather awkward, no? paladini paladin? ack.) that takes sword and board talents as well as fires of darcozzi palace. poe character customization options allows us to play effective melee wizards or ranged nuke wizards. our customization options has us still on fence trying to decide how best to build a monk. we likes a hybrid off-tank build, but am betting that if we shared our ideal monk, we would get at least a half-dozen folks disagreeing with our choices. and heck, we could build a straight dps monk that would be unlikely to take rooting pain and soul mirror. decado compares poe class customization options to bg2 kits and finds poe wanting? how? but again, is a review for a game we already played. why on earth would we be particular concerned 'bout decado's opinions o' a game we already played and formed our own opinions for the title? we did get slight further into this codexian review as 'posed to the last, but roxxor's (sp?) were more o' a joke review akin to a lewis black monologue, but without as much funny. matt516 nailed it for previous review. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78279-rpgcodex-review-1-hŵrpa-dwrp/?p=1670748 decado, on the other hand, simple had a different experience from Gromnir.... which is fine. HA! Good Fun!

plague of insects has been altered in some way. we got a save from endless paths wherein we has just cleared level 4, but am returning to clean-up two rooms o' level 3. had already beaten zolla and her attendants, but we were down to single camping supplies so we figured we would acquire the hunting bow and sabre from level 4 before finishing off level 3. got through the entirety o' level 4 without need to burn camping supplies. anyways, the save we got is having our little party, now better armed and fully rested, attempting to clear the two groups o' ogres immediate to the relative west o' the room where zolla is found. following 1.06, we has attempted to finish off the ogres at least a half dozen times. has used traps and priestly suppress affliction and have 'course, done everything we could to disable the ogre druids. our attempts has been ugly little massacres... and not in a good way. the ogre druids eventual manage to cast plague and we die. sure, we got the most extreme unfortunate encounter possible for plague of insects wherein we must fight pairs of high might druids with a lowish level party, but before 1.06 (or perhaps before 1.05... dunno, didn't play much for a few weeks), with the same party, we were having manageable difficulty with the level 3 endless path ogres. and heck, this is likely the 5th or 6th time we has cleared this level with different characters, always at approximate the same character level. something changed w/i the last patch or two that has made the difficult ogre battles impossible... and the most obvious change we noticed were the rate o' Gromnir death via plague o' insects. as far as we can tell, an ogre druid's plague o' insects should tick at ~6 damage per sec, but it is hitting us for 10. HA! Good Fun! ps edit to correct damage... gonna need double-check 'cause am working from memory. am certain am getting ticks of ten for a hit (non-crit), but am honestly not 100% certain what it should be.

There's been plenty of observations, pretty much in every thread I've seen this brought up, but I don't think there's been any real complaints, simply because I don't think it's really registered as an issue. Which is also why it took so long to fix. Even so, what you're calling for is essentially argumentum ad populum, but fair enough. And really, Strawnir, I've gone through what strawmans are with you in detail, multiple times, and how you've repeatedly tried to address arguments that no-one ever made. Everyone knows this. I know it. You know it. Everyone that reads your posts know it. It's not a secret. The only one that needs to accept that you have a problem is you. The sad fact is that I'm pretty sure you don't do it on purpose, and most times this comes up, you misunderstanding could be solved with a simple apology. But you just keep on' truckin'. If it's not strawmanning, it's deflecting, or attempts at ridicule. bolded the extreme hypocrisy... just for funsies. so again, vague claims rather than specifics. show us. show us where the obvious bug were complained o' by beta folks. show us what you actual think is a specific strawman 'cause by Gromnir and how it fits the definition, 'cause we has shown how our responses is not strawman. yell "strawman" again? show us. what is the argument we has attributed to you that we then beat the stuffing outta. we did indeed claim that there were no difference 'tween d&d and ie hard counters, but is not a strawman 'cause is not Gromnir who were claiming that there were a difference in quality. opposite is what we did. Gromnir claimed that there were no difference 'tween d&d hard counters and insta kills. in the present thread, show where we attributed a weak argument to you and then knocked stuffing outta it. you believe that seal spells were Obviously bugged, in spite o' failure to prove so. great. we disagree. is not strawman to disagree. we did not suggest or claim that you saw beta and initial release seals as anything other than bugged. so, where is the strawman? Gromnir disagreeing that seals is bugged is so fundamental different from strawman that am getting genuine tired o' explaining what should be obvious. this is ridiculous. is repetitive and ridiculous. show us. say... something. HA! Good Fun!

lordy. "Nobody in their right mind ever thought that Seals were supposed to benefit from Mechanics in any way," so show the complaints and observations. you still don't get strawman. you post a link but you don't explain why our supposed mischaracterization o' your arguments were strawman. random linky? great. shows you has heard the basic definition, which we already provided to you in our link. the problem is that you are using it wrong. claim that d&d hard counters and ie game hard counters is functionally the same is a strawman? how? how does observing that such is the same make the argument weaker. gotta attribute a weak argument and then knock stuffing outta it. were Gromnir who were saying that whether you called ie or d&d made no difference 'cause they were the same. also, strawman requires that we is attributing an argument to you that you did not make. Gromnir never suggested that YOU believe that seals and mechanics were s'posed to be linked. duh. keep posting. you will eventually get this... or not. if only education you got is 2 minute youtube videos, we get the confusion on your part. HA! Good Fun!

am not gonna touch the observation regarding the shallowness o' poe PLOT v. original ie game plot, in part 'cause we thinks people is using the wrong word when they says "plot" and it would be unfair to brutalize folks over their mistake. in any event, we paid $19. neener-neener. dunno, did the genesis poster expect $140 worth of goods for $140 pledge? that seems silly. the rewards, beyond the initial game, were s'posed to be tokens o' appreciation for investment beyond the initial game purchase, yes? you were not paying $140 for a game. you pledged $140 so that obsidian could make the game described in the kickstarter offering, yes? " I didn't care about them changing details, but the wholesale injection of righteous gaming at the expense of fun constituted a bait and switch in my opinion. " is this kinda stuff that must drive the developers nuts. we hear the indignation, but the complaint is just so... empty. there were no injection o' anything. poe were built from scratch. is not as if the developers started with the infinity engine and then added evils. and what were the great unnamed evil? balance? *chuckle* from the start, obsidian's greatest obstacle were expectations. too many backers had rosey-hued recollections o' the ie games. obsidian, right or wrong, fed these expectations. obsidian's whole kickstarter pitch were meant to capitalize on ie game nostalgia (as 'posed to reality) so, we should not pity them for needing fight unreasonable expectations. that being said, our biggest gripe with obsidian were that the developers were far too willing to appease the fans during the development. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/71242-interview-with-josh-sawyer-tomorrow-thursday-the-19th-at-8-pm-est-on-my-twitch-channel/?p=1589870 no sense repeating self. HA! Good Fun! ps we did pay extra beyond $19 to beta test.

Good attempt at trying to twist the polls to fit your agenda, work in politics? The fact of the matter is that almost 70% disagree with you and think it was a final product and almost 10% don't give a ****. End of discussion. it's a message board poll. what bala actual said were: "So so far approximately 20% of POE customers consider that the game should either have been either:" what follows the quoted material don't matter. however, the suggestion that a self-serving poll on this board, a poll that has actual gone through revisions, is adequately representing the entirety o' poe customers such that we could make any guesses as to how 20% o' poe purchasers feel 'bout anything being discussed in this thread is laughable. this may come as a surprise to folks, but the message board population, particularly those who active respond in threads such as these, is unlikely to be representative o' the mythical Average Purchaser. and again, what we say in polls such as these is having negligible impact on any game publisher. sales figures is far more relevant than silly message board polls. could have 80% respondents complain o' poe stability at state o' release, but if such complaints is not reflected by reduced or slowed sales and if such concerns cannot be seen in decreased pre-orders for the expansion, then publishers is, quite reasonably, ignoring such complaints. is noise. complaints alone o' day 1 stability is sound and fury. complain but continue to buy as before? heck, the genesis poster actual tells us that he ignored reasonable opportunities for education regarding poe stability, and changed from being a person who intelligently avoided day 1 purchases o' gaming software to a foolish drone who did succumb to his nostalgia for bg, spitting in the face o' the many linked authors who cautioned him against intemperate and impulsive game purchasers, making of himself a... statistic. baladas should weep for a lost opportunity to meaningful chastise obsidian. his steely resolve instead expressed in an impotent post release message board poll? prudence is a cardinal virtue. gluttony is a deadly sin. o' tragedy indeed. nevertheless, preach on, brother. preach as a sinner and not as a saint. over-the-top? HA! Good Fun!

Oh, poor Strawnir, flailing like a sinking crash-dummy. I think the best part is where you say I haven't understood the issue, then describe the exact issue as I already explained it, and then go on to detail the bug, ending it all with saying that wasn't a bug. It's been a known bug since forever. It likely had to do with how those spells were modeled after traps to begin with, and the issue was just too far down on the list of priorities that it wasn't fixed until now. ignoring your strawman claim and just barreling ahead, eh? irony. we described why mechanics + traps weren't a bug. priests got no more benefit from the mechanics accuracy boost to their spell traps than did any character using a physical trap. is why we were told that it were working as intended. is only two people we ever saw raise this issue during the beta, and you weren't one o' them. were more than a few threads complaining about bugs making X or Y class overpowered, yes? show us the ones that identified priests as overpowered. show where you claimed this were a bug during the beta. show where obsidians noted it were a bug. if this were such a well-known and obvious bug, surely you will find considerable pre-release evidence, no? Gromnir and some guy named ushsomethingorother. so, show us. HA! Good Fun! Oh, Strawnir, just strawmanning away like a champ. For everyone watching, note that the Strawnir does not actually address the issue, but rather deflects and creates the strawman of trying to make the argument into something it never was. It brings up the beta, which is irrelevant, and it brings up whether I reported it during the beta or not, which is similarly irrelevant. It also brings up that "priests got no more benefit out of mechanics accuracy boost to their spell traps than did any character using a physical trap", which is also completely irrelevant. The bug was that Seals were considered Traps at all, and got any benefit from Mechanics whatsoever. No-one in their right mind thought that Mechanics contributing to Priest seals, or that Seals and Traps were mutually exclusive, was working as intended. Then there was Strawnir. Strawnir, it's getting sad. It is like watching an alzheimer's patient degenerate. so, not gonna show anything? figures. traps were not known to be wildly unbalanced til after release, so a feature that had a spell treated as a trap were not considered inherent unbalanced-- why would it be? treat a seal as a trap is not a problem if traps is balanced, yes? use different math than other spells? well gosh, hazard spells do that in the current builds. hazards is 'posed is s'posed to work different. is not a bug. were not a bug. (actual, treat seals as hazard should be reconsidered 'cause increased accuracy is only making sense if the hazard is genuine hazardous to friends and foes. seals, being only hazardous to foes, don't genuine need increased accuracy.) regardless, traps were broken. is not that seals were treated as traps that were problematic, but that traps were broken. traps were nerfed in an incremental and piecemeal fashion so it ain't surprising that fixing all traps has taken a considerable amount o' time, effort and and rebalance. but this ain't new territory. Gromnir is forced to be repetitive, 'cause you are unresponsive and obdurate. so, show us. no? figures. furthermore, you don't have any idea what is strawman, as becomes increasing apparent every time you post. disagree with you and your premise does not make a response strawman... what a chucklehead. add illustrations and examples o' why your claims premise is flawed is also not strawman. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78279-rpgcodex-review-1-h%C5%B5rpa-dwrp/page-30?do=findComment&comment=1674203 claim that d&d and ie game hard counters and insta kills is having same origins, strengths and weaknesses is not strawman. claim that seals as traps were needing o' rebalance as all other traps were also not strawman as we never attributed the argument to you... then knocked stuffing outta it 'cause it were so obvious weak. you are hopeless. again, read the linked post as well as preceding and subsequent posts to get yet another education in the strawman logic fallacy. force us to yet again define and correct your continuing misapprehension is becoming spam. HA! Good Fun!

Oh, poor Strawnir, flailing like a sinking crash-dummy. I think the best part is where you say I haven't understood the issue, then describe the exact issue as I already explained it, and then go on to detail the bug, ending it all with saying that wasn't a bug. It's been a known bug since forever. It likely had to do with how those spells were modeled after traps to begin with, and the issue was just too far down on the list of priorities that it wasn't fixed until now. ignoring your strawman claim and just barreling ahead, eh? irony. we described why mechanics + traps weren't a bug. priests got no more benefit from the mechanics accuracy boost to their spell traps than did any character using a physical trap. is why we were told that it were working as intended. is only two people we ever saw raise this issue during the beta, and you weren't one o' them. were more than a few threads complaining about bugs making X or Y class overpowered, yes? show us the ones that identified priests as overpowered. show where you claimed this were a bug during the beta. show where obsidians noted it were a bug. if this were such a well-known and obvious bug, surely you will find considerable pre-release evidence, no? Gromnir and some guy named ushsomethingorother. so, show us. HA! Good Fun!

... mindboggling. how can you still not know what is strawman? is this an internet thing? didn't we go through this in both the respec and codex review threads? HA! Good Fun! ps 'cause luckman still not get what happened it seems, seal spell accuracy did not use spell accuracy but rather used trap accuracy. the math were complete different from spell accuracy. priests did not enjoy any greater benefit from mechanics than would a rogue or chanter or mage using a physical trap. it weren't a bug. the problem were traps. pps for educational and review purposes, we add the following link: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78279-rpgcodex-review-1-hŵrpa-dwrp/?p=1674203 don't use words 'less you know what they mean.

o' really? *sigh* your observation about folks arguing over a nerf that didn't happen o' a feature that never existed is clear fallacious. thanks though. HA! Good Fun!

that is kinda the point though, ain't it? the nerfs did happen and you were kinda talking out your arse if you didn't pay attention, yes? *shrug* am suspecting that nerf were changing seals from trap mechanic to hazards. check the out-dated wiki will show the +15 accuracy bonus for seal spells and no mention o' hazard. the change were needed, but there were a change. HA! Good Fun!

currently am getting a flat +26 accuracy for seal spells. that is not how it worked in previous builds. and yes, there has been multiple nerfs to seal spells. for instance, am sure you can look to out-of-date sources to see that the seal spells all were receiving an additional +15 accuracy. *shrug* on the positive side, the most recent patch has fixed the problem whereby holy radiance, and a few other abilities that were not s'posed to buff foes, were conveying positive benefits to non friendlies. this were particular annoying for the non targetable abilities such as the paladin's inspiring triumph. HA! Good Fun!

aside: the seal spells actual were nerfed previous to 1.06, but it weren't near enough. during the beta, and at least at release, the seal spells were getting +15 accuracy. this made a kinda sense as priests have terrible accuracy and this would allow priest seal spells to be more on par with physical traps set by rogues and ciphers and whatnot. were there a genuine advantage in using a searing seal as 'posed to a noxious burst trap? corrode v. burn were the main difference. if anything, the initial benefit o' seals v. traps had nothing to do with accuracy but were a matter o' physical traps seeming failing to trigger in spite o' their 1m target range. how does a man-sized critter going through a trapped doorway not set off a 1 metre trap? seal spells, with their much larger target range, were far more reliable. even so, weren't as if the crit chance and damage output for seals were skewed in favor o' priests. after release, obsidian realized quick that high level mechanics coupled with various traps led to You Win results. tough battles were made silly easy. so, being reasonable and responsible, the developers nerfed traps... but they seeming forgot seals? at some point obsidian "fixes" the priestly imbalance by removing the +15 accuracy for seal spells. oh sure, Gromnir made any number o' posts about seal power, and we were hardly alone, but apparently obsidian had bigger issues. a feature that has been around all beta and for two months o' release gets complete expunged? we figured a nerfing o' some sort, but we didn't expect a complete elimination o' the synergy 'tween seals and mechanics. heck, we were one o' the few folks shouting 'bout how over-powered were seal spells. obsidian likely did the correct thing, just as removing accuracy from perception were the right thing. doesn't change the fact that obsidian rebalancing results in a few skill points we would likely wanna redistribute. HA! Good Fun! ps the beloved spirits nerf, which made us regret two chanter talent choices, were a similar kinda situation that woulda' been easily overcome with a respec option. pps am thinking the traps issues likely go back to removal o' attribute accuracy. beta trap math, if we recall, did not benefit from perception bonuses... which made sense. trap accuracy and power were likely balanced against combat accuracy with potential attribute bonuses included. when perception were removed from the combat accuracy equation, traps gained a relative advantage.

Some people have been abusing the fact that they benefits from (until 1.06) Mechanics, since they count as spells. But yes, they're pretty good either way (which is why them benefiting from Mechanics was so broken). Hopefully they also fixed the issue with priests not being able to place both traps and seals, too. Someone abusing an obvious bug that gets patched isn't really an argument in favour of a respec feature. *chuckle* this weren't something that just popped up. seal spell accuracy were a known quantity even during the beta and the obsidians responded that it were working as intended. the trap math as a whole were wonky but it didn't become apparent when there were other ways to boost accuracy and when we were only playing levels 4-8. traps has been adjusted multiple times since release. this were not a bug, but it were an oversight. petrify were also altered despite the fact that it weren't bugged. cipher focus were not bugged but it became obvious that it were excessive. hell, all during the beta we had folks joking that a cipher with leadbitter could max focus with one opening salvo. weren't a bug, just took obsidian a while to address. etc. wanna look at the list o' post release rebalancing? is more than a few abilities that is still disproportionate powerful. *shrug* observation: the overpowered nature o' priests were not "obvious" to you during the beta. silly rabbit. HA! Good Fun!

Seal spells no longer benefit from Mechanics as of 1.06 beta. It might have been changed earlier, but it definitely isn't working with the newest patch. that would actual be a reasonable change from the developers as priestly seal spells were ridiculous powerful. we noted in other threads that even w/o the benefit o' mechanics, seal spells provided the priest with a functional accuracy boost given the benefit o' traps math. developers added accuracy penalties to traps but not to seal spells in 1.05 or 1.04. if developers have finally gotten around to adjusting, then it is an overdue change. seal spells will continue to be relative powerful if they use trap math w/o the accuracy penalties o' traps. however, we won't see silly results with +160 accuracy for repulsing seals. will check later. aside: is another argument in favor o' a respec feature as every freaking priest we got has max mechanics. removal o' mechanics modification o' seals makes lore, athletics and even survival worthy o' consideration when assigning points, particular as other classes have better starting affinity for mechanics. HA! Good Fun!

I think you don't know what finished version means. According to Obsidian: http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/7/entry-184-patch-notes-106-in-progress/ "The product was deemed a finished product because Obsidian considered it a finished product. It is really as simple as that." I disagree. Simple as that. So you don't finish things when you decide that they good enough or you don't have anymore time or money to put in them. So for example in your standards people can't finish school if their results weren't perfect. Or maybe better your employer can argue that you haven't finished your work before you have given them perfect results and they don't need to pay you for hours that you have done for them. Finished product is product that product's maker thinks is good enough to be claimed to be finished, sometimes makers are forced to claim products that they aren't satisfied with as finished because of financial, material or time constraints. Simple as that. You can claim otherwise but that is just arguing against reality, which usually don't lead anything productive. Finished don't mean perfect or that there is no room to improve or that there isn't flaws in product. And it don't even mean that developer of product can return on later date to fix flaws in the product or even that developer can continue to improve the product outright after they release finished version of product and release new improved finished version in later date. In digital products customers that bought first version of the product often have benefit to get improved versions of product at least until certain point with out needing to pay extra for those improvements, if product is commercial. Aaanndd you managed to make it complicated. Again.... is that a joke? want simple? game publishers don't believe you. with every game release, a number o' folks complain o' bugginess. so what? the complaints is just so much noise until people change their purchasing practices. the genesis poster is an ideal example o' the fail on the part o' consumers and why the industry don't care about his complaints. the genesis poster knew o' endemic bugginess o' software releases. nevertheless, instead o' waiting for a few patches to ensure stability or researching tech support boards to see what kinda bugs existed at release and afterwards, the genesis poster wanted to play poe 'cause o' his bg "nostalgia" and a couple unnamed positive reviews. regardless o' his s'posed reluctance to make early purchases o' new releases, he wanted to play poe, so he ignored all the links and advice he has shared after the fact. the genesis poster bought the game. so endeth his ability to bring about change. he is now a statistic-- just another irrational purchaser who complains 'bout buggy releases but continues to buy 'em. complaints 'bout bugs don't matter if you do not change your behavior. heck, the genesis poster claims that he did change behavior. before poe he were a cautious and reluctant purchaser o' early releases, but he went ahead and purchased regardless. so, what is the actual message your behavior were sending to publishers? http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70927-480-discussion/page-10?do=findComment&comment=1582604 we accurate guessed the situation before release. how much less excuse do you got to be claiming surprise when you had access to tech support feedback post release? made a bug list? HA! why not do that before purchase? kis... s. this ain't complicated. change behaviour or be a statistic that shows you is another irrational purchaser who complains 'bout buggy releases but buys 'em anyway. HA! Good Fun!

short and boring... though a few battles will be tougher. max mechanics on all priests. before every battle you will be able to set traps, which include seal spells. a ring or wall o repulsing seals with obscene high crit rate that will render any foe prone for a considerable amount o' time? maybe have one priest use searing seal to blind everybody as well. you are gonna win most battles before they start. you have loads o' fire spells and holy radiance burns as well, so take scion o flame for everybody. suggest a spread o' divinities to take advantage o' unique weapons and racial benefits. a hearth orlan priest o' eothas with mabec's morningstar will crit frequent. a couple magran faeries (wood elves) armed with arquebus and the gunner + marksman talents will do nice ranged damage and have extremely high accuracy. a couple o' skaen priests would be beneficial as well. there is excellent stilettos and clubs in the game. your tank is going to die. again, priests is squishy. cast withdraw when your tank is in a doorway is an option to prolong life, but take all the tanky talents such as sword and shield and cautious attack won't make you a great tank. wild orlan priest o' berath is likely your bestest option though moon godlike is worthy o' consideration. heck, perhaps a mountain dwarf? wild orlan gets defensive boost when subjected to will attacks. moonie gets healing aura. dwarf resists poison and disease and gets potential 19 con... add Rauatai culture for 20 con. we hate min/max nonsense, but for a priest tank you might need to do so. boost perception and resolve to max. we would go with the orlan, but this might be the one character that genuine benefits from pumping constitution, so dwarf racial bonus and resistances is worthy o' consideration even if is not gonna be a popular option. don't worry about your tank's weapon choice. early in the game use the rapier or warhammer with the guarding quality. you is actual gonna crit frequent regardless o' your sucky accuracy 'cause most o' the time your foes will be prone and blind and otherwise disabled. why berath? *shrug* corrosive siphon will heal you a bit. unfortunately, even with the recent endurance boost, priests is squishy. priests is not anywhere near as effective in the tank role as fighters, paladins, chanters, and monks. other than lack o' a good tank, you will also suffer from the absence o' the classes that create debuffs that make your spells more effective. priests have many offensive spells that are opposed by will. divine mark is a lowly level 2 spell, but for a priest with an 18 might and the aforementioned scion o' flame talent, you will regularly crit in the 80 damage range. go ahead and check and you will see how many debuffs and damage spells for the priest is targeting will. unfortunately, your priests don't have many will debuffs of their own. the priest o' wael's debuff ain't gonna cut it neither. interdictions is gonna be you best bet for routinely debuffing will, so get painful interdiction on a couple priests asap. good luck. HA! Good Fun! ps if you have 1.06 loaded, wait to try this option. holy radiance is broken in the beta version o' 1.06. you will be healing and buffing your foes with holy radiance, and with six priests... developers is aware o' the bug, so am hopeful they fix.

http://www.polygon.com/2014/11/24/7277363/broken-video-games-are-the-new-norm-what-developers-need-to-do-to-fix http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=976550 http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/25huew/eli5_how_can_nintendo_release_relatively_bugfree/ http://conversation.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/video-game-publishers-bugs-broken-drm-piracy/ http://www.tomsguide.com/us/people-buy-broken-games,news-19952.html those is all your links... links that is showing us how broken is industry insofar as game stability is concerned. you posted the links. hey, you are preaching to the choir. Gromnir doesn't buy new releases. we recognized long ago how irrational it were to complain o' pervasive bugged games and to continue buying 'em on day 1. fine. color us convinced. even so, you claim that you were caught unawares by the state o' poe stability? ... https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&es_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=pillars%20of%20eternity%20bugs&es_th=1 http://forums.obsidian.net/forum/105-patch-beta-bugs-and-support/ you ignored the advice from your own links and did not bother to do any kinda due diligence. is on you. regardless, poe don't seem to be more flawed than any recent title and given your bg "nostalgia," you should be aware o' just how buggy that title were at release... and totsc likely had as many bugs as bg. so, enjoy the nostalgia? HA! Good Fun!

This is ONE game I have brought on release in a LONG time, I usually dont, but this game triggered my Baldurs Gate nostalgia and I had high hopes becase over the net the actual release of the game was pipped as "relatively bug free". So I brought it at release, played it, experienced bugs, stopped playing it, read about more bugs, then decided to wait for a stable version. In the meantime I have created this post and poll, (which is not a product for sale by the way, despite some other peoples opinion) for discussion, originally meant for POE specifically, but has now become about more than that. Which is fine. Oh, and please, no personal attacks (like this "your behavior was foolish") on people. Not on me or on anyone. OK? your behaviour was foolish. am not calling you a fool, but your actions were irrational and foolhardy. you got how many links in this thread telling us 'bout the sorry state o' release stability o' games. you is trying to convince folks just how woeful is the industry standards for stability. nevertheless, you went ahead and bought a title w/i a short period of time following release? how would you characterize such behaviour in light o' your criticisms and link history? ... does your behavior, in light o' your posts, seem at all rational? http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/irrational again, reading the tech support boards for five minutes woulda' clarified any misconceptions you mighta' had from reading... which reviews? no specifics once again. feel personally attacked? HA! Good Fun!