Ohioastro

I find it appealing that high intelligence allows you to more precisely target your spells.

How is this different from ad&d?

Every stat system gets gamed. There is always an optimal build for a given class. At least PoE doesn't have obvious dump stats like some other games (hello charisma!). Your character will pay a real price, probably in fragility, if you dump any stats too low. I actually prefer a system where extreme stat adjustments are quite costly, favoring more balanced stats.

You get items for kills, which is actually useful for crafting. Its entirety possible in this game, with a minimum of effort, to avoid most encounters if you are so moved. There are locked doors that bypass fights. There are scripts to toss grappling hooks across chasms. There are dialog options. And, as noted, you don't need to slaughter for exp. What, precisely, is the problem here? If you clear all maps you have to fight things? That's the equivalent of looking for fights.

Some reviewers like splashy visuals and don't care much about plot. D:OS had weak writing and plot (it was tongue-in-cheek and funny, but sparse and barely coherent.) It had snazzy visuals - you could blow things up like in a first-person shooter - and it was a good deal easier than PoE once you figured out how to use the environmental effects. It was also "front loaded"; Cyseal was a lot more interesting than any later part of the game was. I certainly enjoyed it, but this game is a good deal deeper. Having a reviewer basically complain that this is a Baldurs Gate clone, given the bitter complaints here from purists, is actually amusing. People - in the pro reviewing business a 7/10 is a game that barely works, an 8/10 is a disappointment, and the usual scale runs from 9/10 to 10/10. Just because you use the whole scale doesn't mean that they do; it's a hostile review from someone who clearly prefers things like Dragon Age to things like this. He's entitled to his opinion, of course, but that's what his score means.

I can't afford but a fraction of the magic items in the stores. If anything, I think money is unusually well balanced in this game, as is crafting. My only complaint on the latter is the scarcity of high end resources (e.g. better than fine)

There are more than the macho crowd playing this game. Newer players, for example, frequently rely on over-leveling more difficult encounters to defeat them. I hit the level cap (on hard) in Act III, close to the end. I did most of the side quests, some of the bounties, and about 2/3 of the massive stronghold dungeon. I don't think that I would have hit level 13 by the end. Fouling up the main quest / side quest balance has all sorts of consequence above and beyond the people bragging about how good they are at the game and how easy it is. Acceptable solutions have to preserve the current "easy/normal/hard" balance; it's fine to tune up POTD. If people really want a "tougher" experience to boast about, pump up the levels of the foes in POTD and be done with it.

I don't get the obsession with difficulty. If you're over-leveled relative to mobs it's easier. Scouting and tactics make it easier. Munchkin character design makes it easier. Being willing to use "overpowered" combos - which complicated games always have - makes it easier. These games scratch a different itch, and they're fun. But I rarely find them overly difficult once I understand the system because of the points above. That's something that's much easier to find in simple games like Go or Chess. Failing that, it's entirely legit to use "house rules" if you want more of a challenge; that's really what some of the achievements are for (solo win....triple solo win...etc.)

There is a level cap. Slashing exp would force completionist runs to reach the level cap, strongly handicapping players who don't do everything. There are so many things that impact difficulty that this seems low on the list. If you want more challenge, skip the side quests; if you don't, complete everything. Pretty much the same as BG, no?

Baldurs Gate was fun, but absolutely trivial once you understood the system. This is not new.

It is good AI to target and kill weak and dangerous foes. Casting defensive spells helps a lot.

I'd like a fixed time delay for all phrases, so that you could use the higher level chants without delaying summons. No other class has to wait longer to cast more powerful spells.

Their resource resets to full at the end of each encounter. It's as if a wizard etc. had all "per encounter" spells. I'd replace one of the fighters with a tank-spec chanter and the paladin with a cipher.

Claims like "the game is easy on hard" are really, really unhelpful. To start with, there are a lot of factors that play into difficulty. Let's say that you throw every spell into every encounter and run back to the inn over and over. This will make the game "easy", because it's not designed around having player throw dozens of spells into each battle. Another example: let's say that you clear everything the first time that you see it. There are many places in the game where this results in genuinely tough encounters - several of which you run into at the very start of the game. However, if you wait on them a few levels, they become "easy". Because they're not level scaled. Another example: if you accidentally trigger encounters out of position they're tough. If you always line up terrain, scout, and open up with high damage ranged attacks and spells: a lot easier. Mix/max your party and use a handful of strong combinations: easier. Roleplay: harder. Just claiming that the game is trivial on hard is therefore really unhelpful; it's a lot better to ask what particular problems that others are having, or to specify what you mean.

I found a tank chanter surprisingly effective. I used 8/10/8/18/14/18 for stats and stacked deflection bonuses. He rapidly became untouchable with a shield and heavy armor. Now, he didn't do much direct damage: but the chants are a nice boost, having a strong offtank was handy, and if battles were long enough, summons and the late invocations are powerful. I also think that the tier 3 chants are actually quite strong (AoE fire to enemies + fire damage on friendly weapons is a nifty combo for the right foes.) I suppose that you could design a ranged one instead; my question would be why. The class doesn't have any particular advantages as ranged DPS - so a ranged chanter isn't doing anything particularly special, and losing the front line chants is a big hit on utility. EDIT: I can confirm mechanics checks up to 12, and ones up to 9 are common end-game. I think that you're best off with a dedicated mechanics character. Given the way interactions work, it's arguably best that this *not* be your main - as you get dialog etc. options with 5 levels in lore, athletics, survival (at minimum).

So, to summarize, the Dex bonus at 18 is 1/1.24, not 1-0.24?

They will reach the same cap as any other character (your party does keep getting experience when your main character hits max level).

Get back to me when other classes are set up to cast one spell per encounter. I get that you have a thing for crippling this class, and I'm confident that it won't happen, so I'm bowing out of this thread. Carry on/

One summon per fight for a chanter would cripple the class, especially in long boss battles. Really - it would make the class utter dead weight where it counted the most.

And apparently the costs in stores for them are now sky high. MMO disease again.

Exactly, the point isnt that summons are too powerful when played as intended its that you can cheese yor way to victory by stacking a team with mostly or all chanters, i mean intel does nothing for melee based chanters really so there is nothing to stop you rolling 6 chanters with 18 con 18 res and 18 per, they have a passive heal (not sure if it stacks or not) and so there is basically no way you can loose using this trick, it turns PoTD into easy mode As far as I can tell (I ran a chanter tank main) the chants don't stack. So an all chanter party would be seriously, seriously weak at high difficulties in boss fights.

This sort of things ruins games for people who play normally. I don't care, at all, that someone else somewhere can cheese their way to a win on a hard difficulty level. I do care that a class built around summons doesn't get trashed to close a silly loophole in the name of "balance". EDIT: Sorry, I'm getting argumentative here. I just dislike the MMO disease: grinding classes down because someone finds a loophole, and the designers then over-react, crippling what was once a fun things to do. If summons poof when out of line of sight of players, for instance, it doesn't matter at all for normal play, and that would seem to solve whatever problem this is. Also, regenerate when out of combat. Neither thing breaks any normal thing that players do.

Chanters can only do one summon at a time. So what you're guarding against is a very niche thing: mob that can't hurt a tank, sending chanter summons by themselves to fight things, and eventually profit. The cost is that a time limit on summons could really mess up long boss fights (like the final one). Is there an actual demonstration that this is an issue anywhere? Or is this just hypothetical theory crafting? More to the point, if someone wants to basically cheat in a single player game, what of it? They can use console commands too. It doesn't affect my game at all.

Nonsense. There is a long time lag for summons, and at least now you can use other chants once the summon is up. Figurines are one per rest. And dragging mobs in to fight at the door sacrifices per encounter abilities, which is actually a handicap. I just don't see the problem that this is supposed to fix.

This hurts chanters badly, and not for a significant reason at all. If you don't like summons don't use chanters, no?