archangel979

That just means you cannot stream it in 720p but you could in 480p. I think your bigger problem is that you have monthly GB limit?!

Cool and all reading all you bastards having fun playing the game, but can any of you take pity on the rest of us and start live streaming the new beta build?

It is also for spellcasters and they are most important. And they kited the most in IE games.

This is one of the things I was planning suggesting. Also moving during recovery should slow down movement a bit so those that use it for kiting move slower than those that already recovered and are just chasing them to hit them.

The bigger problem of this system is that during recovery time you cannot move. The system should be changed that moving during recovery makes recovery last 2x long, but not stop. In effect it makes tactical positioning a bad decision in all situations, something that was a big problem in 3e D&D and changed in 4e (which J.E. Sawyer loves). It also needlessly nerfs melee character that lose on attacks when needing to close distance to target.

And the story and feeling of the world. And combat was lots of fun and dialogues were awesome.

Two whole classes of vampires focused on avoiding combat and detection and some others had skill that would pacify enemies so you could just walk past. The quest structures also went out of its way to offer non-combat solutions. Just because you CHOSE to play it with lots of combat it does not mean it was combat heavy game.

Oh boy. BTW, SRR is one of the best games of 2013 and Dragonfall is one of the best games of 2014 so I don't know what you are about.

Well, we should see a new build in action within next 12 hours if all predictions about Wednesday update are true so leave your doomsday predictions at least until we see how much they fixed in 2+ weeks.

I don't like that all spells cast time is same and so short. In IE games cast time of spells played a tactical role. I would use fast casting spells to try to interrupt enemy casters. Different casting time of spells also made it so you needed to know how to target them properly if they were AoE. There was system mastery involved in different casting times and made the game better because after a time a player felt he was better at playing it.

True, but only IWD2 was 3e and I am not sure if they implemented this. In 3e power attack with two handed weapon also gave you more damage for same penalty.

I always turn on autopause on enemy sighted so that is how I always knew combat started :D

What?! They did most damage and taking two points in two handed weapon style let you critical hit on 19 and 20 which meant even more damage. Minsc and later Dorn were always my biggest damage dealers as far as fighters go.

Games like VtM:B don't work because they don't have character levels. As soon as you get some XP you can spend it to improve your character. While in IE games you have to gather XP one way or another to get a level. Once you get a level only then you improve. One quest or a few kills give you nothing immediately. But I agree, VtM:B is an awesome game and shows how to do it right. It is also a game that has very little combat, it can be mostly skipped even when there is combat and there are no trash mobs randomly standing in your way. All killing is done as part of missions. Just like how Shadowrun Returns does it that also only has mission/quest XP.

The part where the solution is not to implement kill XP but find an equally rewarding way for people that explore before bothering with quests?! It has been proposed several times. And now it is proposed in its own separate thread because it is a separate topic. Now it is readable, findable and discussable without other trash posts dealing with people trolling each other. You are backpedaling here. The title claimed different view, not separate topic for this particular view. Compared to kill xp vs quest xp, it is a different View. All the Xp topics deal mostly in those two. This is only XP topic whose starting premise is different. Because this topic deserves its own thread. Since nobody else did it, I had to.

Exactly its a game mechanic, you kill unit X to get Y. Thats it, nothing more. Their is no deep connection to any mythical rule of role playing games or whatever. Its a game mechanic and that means its up to the designers if it fits their vision on how they want the game to be played. You act as if things exist in a vacuum. Kill XP has a reason, like any and all game mechanics. Removing Kill Xp also has a reason (told to us by Sawyer). Replacing kill XP also would have a reason. I tried to analyze those reasons and give a solution.

The part where the solution is not to implement kill XP but find an equally rewarding way for people that explore before bothering with quests?! It has been proposed several times. And now it is proposed in its own separate thread because it is a separate topic. Now it is readable, findable and discussable without other trash posts dealing with people trolling each other.

The part where the solution is not to implement kill XP but find an equally rewarding way for people that explore before bothering with quests?! You really think that the majority of "pro-kill-xp" players is interested in something like that? Just read through those threads. You quickly find out that its not a discussion about logic and game mechanics its about personal preference, or with other words they just want it. Theirs no logical argument for it, just go on and read through it. All their so called negative side effects that will accour when you remove kill-xp cant be proven because their is zero way to prove it. Its a very "religious" debate. Edit: I was actually neutral in the beginning and didnt really care how the game gives out XP but the fanticism and anger really pissed me off, especially because they act like they are some kind of spokesperson for a large silent majority. I asked some of my steam friends yesterday what they want from PoE and most of them dont really care as long as its fun to play. Its just a very vocal minority, that wants to get its way by force. I did. And when you sort through all the trash and troll posts, I got away with the impression that what they really want is what I wrote here. Except for a few individuals, but they don't represent the whole pro kill-xp group (why I said in my OP that it will quiet down some, not stop it completely). What is Kill-xp? It is immediate reward for beating a foe. It is also a way to level without following a set structure (quests). Replace it with something better that works similarly and you got a winner.

The part where the solution is not to implement kill XP but find an equally rewarding way for people that explore before bothering with quests?!

No. They have already "ruined" Torment, don't take PoE away from me. Nope. They made it better.

I call this the compromise XP thread

Hello everyone. I have been following XP topics from day one of backer beta. Although I don't have access to beta, I have been watching streams of people who have and have not complained about XP while streaming so lets say I managed to catch live emotions of both groups. But I don't want to do polls or complain about XP being this way or that way. I want to give my view on the (possible) real problem of current XP system. I also want to be a voice for people like me, people that don't have a strong opinion either way and just want to get the best possible experience no matter what XP system we ends up with. No, I don't want to add this post in the overall topic as it will just get buried under all the poop slinging going on over there. Also by now, devs probably don't read that topic anymore. We have two groups going at each other throats. Both have fair reasons for that (at least they think so). Let me do a quick analysis of their positions before presenting my solution: #1 In the left corner, wearing red shorts we have the anti kill-XP competitors. They don't want to kill NPCs after they finish their quests and they want to have equal option to skip enemies as to kill them. They consider combat fun in itself and loot as enough of a reward. #2 In the right corner, wearing blue shorts we have the kill-XP competitors. They want to be able to skip quests if they want to and get their levels through clearing of areas of anything moving. Quest XP is just a bonus on top of the main dish - murder, slaughter, BLOOD!!! The less violent ones want to go wherever they please and do adventuring in a way they prefer. They consider killing without that XP number in combat log to be "not fun enough". (Please don't argue about this, it wasn't my purpose to represent both camps 100%) What to do about this? It seems to me that freedom of exploration is the key here. People screaming for XP actually want to go wherever and whenever and still FEEL like they have not missed anything. In IE games that was accomplished by giving each enemy XP value like in D&D and be done with it. Maps were then filled with special and often custom groups of enemies that would give us interesting combat but no quest was attached to them. The illusion worked. Removing kill XP removes that option but it seems a replacement was not created. Since every group like that cannot have a quest attached to it, something else needs to be implemented. Be it encounter XP, discovery XP or something else, I leave this to the devs to consider as they best know their system. But adding something else in addition to quest xp would please both groups or at least calm them enough. It is important that these additional systems directly rewards people that like to just go out and discover and explore BEFORE talking to every person in the town looking for quests. At it needs to reward them NOW, not one+ hour later when they finally stroll into town and find out they did some quests by stumbling into them. Please don't turn this topic into another war zone... EDIT: I have found myself more than once continuing to play IE games longer than intended to get a bit more XP to level some of my characters before I end it for the daynight. With XP coming immediately after my actions I would be able to do it and it would give pleasure to me. It is simple human psychology and it works. Just like how in aRPG you just keep playing because that better loot will drop "in next 5 minutes". In Civilization and other 4x games "just one more turn effect" is well documented one based on short term rewards and many of them. In IE games, it was gaining XP immediately for everything but quests. Now that everything is removed and nothing has replaced it. I will not prolong my playtime to level when I know it will take me 30 or more minutes instead of 5 or 10 (and after those 5 or 10 I might prolong it more because another short term reward might be 5 or 10 minutes away).

At least this topic has been entertaining to read for last 18 pages. Useless but entertaining.

Yes I'm sure that's the issue a lot of folks have with the concept the trouble is I think it's an unrealistic expectation - first of all every Tom **** and Gwendolyn that played these games have different ideas of what worked and what didn't and secondly just because a mechanic worked back then in the Infinity Engine doesn't mean it's your only option today. Really? I can't use the short version of the name Richard? In that case you find out the aspects that most people liked and keep those instead of guessing them or just ignoring them because you think you know better. Thinking you know better failed for D&D 4e and made Wizards to farm information from their players to get best from all previous editions and create 5e. J.E. Sawyer should have done same. Of course you do because as great team of accomplished developers you should scrap all your own ideas and read tweets & posts on the internet to decide how to make your game. Take some polls have a contest or two..... If you actually understood my post the D&D 4e team was also experienced people who managed to **** up their own brand by thinking they know better than people they are making it for.

Enemies didn't have smaller sight in IE games. To add to that, in IE games it was possible to pull enemies that were close to each other as well. I really don't want that to be the case in PoE as in 16 years developers should know how to make it better.