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Okay, I hope you're being facetious, but on the off chance you aren't, can you explain this to me? Are you afraid of losing street cred if suddenly you discover you're finding FOOL enjoyable? Or is it just Directive #4 of Old Skool CRPGers (No MMOs Evar) overriding your system? Not trolling, btw. I sincerely don't understand where you're coming from. edit: ah, this is because it's Herve's creation, right? I'm kinda slow atm.

I've never understood this thing with congratulating people on becoming the new janitor. Seriously, what's to celebrate about that? Oh well, good luck and keep a bottle of Alka-Seltzer handy.

Arguing from authority, am I? You have it backwards, bub. I have not made a single judgment call regarding this incident -- unlike you, I'm not happy to suggest conspiracy theories without having all the facts in, and I at least have the courtesy of extending presumption of innocence to servicemen regarding the possibility of extrajudicial killings, a very serious charge. Accusations of that caliber are, I think, not something to be thrown around as frivolously as you have. All I have done is, based on what I have been taught, show where your arguments fall apart (it's worth noting that you have not made a single rebuttal of any of the counterpoints I made). Man up and deal with it. "Oh, but I admit I'm fallible" just doesn't cut it -- of course you are fallible, you don't need to clarify that as if there was ever any doubt. That doesn't give you carte blanche to speculate wildly, and then throw a tantrum when people call you on your bull****. Oh, my. Is that special like losing your virginity? I feel kinda naughty right now. You received KM instruction in the army? Wow. Anyway, KM stuff is kinda nasty so I've actually been told that you're better off not doing some things outside of a wartime situation, which I'm not going to find myself in anytime soon. IMO it's just not worth landing your ass in jail and paying an arm and a leg for damages just to teach some punk a lesson. Depending on the law of your country, YMMV though. Hapkido has some useful stuff too.

Looks like you are starting to lose track. Feeling dizzy? Take a step back. Breathe in deeply. Now, either the commandos shot for the head on purpose or they didn't. If they didn't, how exactly were they "executing" anyone? Now, if they were actually going for the head, were they doing so from the moment they boarded the vessel? Was this before or after they were assaulted themselves? Is there any distinction in Israeli law between aiming for (and hitting) the head or the chest? Answer those questions first, then based on the answers, go ahead and try to make your case that the dead by headshot were "executions". Also, do read a few posts back, where I explained that point blank IS NOT execution-style. PROTIP: "the press said it was an execution, I'm just echoing what they said!" is not a valid defense. You are expected to have formed your own informed opinions before advancing conspiracy theories. Uh... the videos showed only parts. The boarding part, mostly. But they did eventually take control of the whole ship. The initial landing may have degenerated into a fistfight, but that doesn't fit with how most of the wounded weren't by contact shots but simply close range fire -- consistent with the cramped environment that is a ship. Once more, if it isn't on YT, it didn't happen, yes? Yeah, you don't know about me. And you don't know about the commandos for that matter, that's your problem. You are essentially pulling stuff out of your ass and expecting everyone to nod in agreement, based on whatever basic training you got as a naval radar operator and the few Tom Clancy novels you may have ogled. Sorry, I ain't buying it. Hmm? What do you want me to back, exactly? I'm offering plausible, easy to verify counterpoints to your 100% unsupported assumptions, estimations and "common sense" suppositions, based on what limited knowledge I have been imparted by people who have actually been on the line. LOL -- 9mm isn't "heavier" at all, it's the basic sidearm caliber for just about any police officer in the world (save the UK, crazy unarmed bastards). A) According to international law, a country that has declared a blockade has a right to board any ships attempting to violate said blockade. So the commandos WERE within their own jurisdiction. You must also have missed the post where I explained this. ADHD? The idea that the nationality of the perps has any relevance would be laughable were it not so widely extended. B) and C) are the same thing, a naval blockade is an act of war and therefore responsibility for enforcement falls on the military. Want to discuss the legality of the blockade? Go right ahead, you won't see me arguing either for or against, as there doesn't seem to be a uniform opinion even among legal experts. The fact remains that, according to the Israeli side, whose orders the commandos are bound to obey, they had every right to be there and do what they did. No, it's you who doesn't understand. Your argument goes like this: "this is some crazy japanese game in which some dude has mad aiming skills -- nothing in this game is to be taken seriously. Therefore, nobody IRL could have similar skills". Even disregarding the fallacies present therein (I'm leaving those for you to figure on your own), the bottom line is that you are using video games as a basis for an argument in your analysis of a real-world event. Do you really need me to go into details as to how ridiculous this is?

There's simply no delicate way to say this... you have no clue what you're talking about. For starters, you don't know if those who got shot in the head had only received those wounds, i.e. they were shot in the chest/extremities AND the head, with the headshot being the ultimate cause of death. You are also operating from the assumption that the commandos were aiming for the head from the get go (I suspect you are fixed on the idea that the soldiers performed a few extrajudicial killings for the hell of it) -- I'd like you to present evidence of this, and then reconcile that evidence with the fact that there were "dozens" of wounded, and "only" five deaths attributed to headshots. Further, all gunfire wounds treated were from 9mm rounds, a reasonably effective cartridge... unless one is using jacketed ammunition, the only one legally available to commandos given that hollow points are banned for military use. So it's perfectly possible that they shot for the chest first, failed to drop the attacker and had to keep firing. Right, because the situations a regular infantryman is going to be in are the same a commando will face, so their training regimes are the same. This also extends to hours spent at the shooting range, time spent familiarising with different combinations of weapons and ballistic effects in different environments, body armor, stress, CQC techniques, etc. Yep, in fact, the only difference between a commando and your run of the mill grunt is a pin on the chest of the former. There is no such thing as "special forces", just goons with guns. Or so says Calax, self-appointed expert on "semi-realistic military fiction". Yeah. If you can't find it on YT, it doesn't exist, right? Maybe you should try and wrap your mind around the fact that video games are not a reliable source and get a bit more real world know-how of these things before jumping to conclusions? Just sayin' That IS the MO for law enforcement worldwide. In general terms, if there is sufficient reason to believe that the aggressor is about to use or is already using deadly force against the officer(s) or bystanders, then deadly force is warranted right back. Deal with it. And by the way, 9mm guns aren't "big", at all. The desperate hyperbole only underlines your weak footing.

Jedi Knight games. :3So IRL swordplay = jumping and running around like a headless chicken, hitting the air with the sword in hopes that the position of a FTL (to account for lag) opponent will be coincident with one's blade? Whoa, what fencing style do you practice? Me wants. Never mind that he was talking about realistic damage (ie one hit kill). Which isn't the case either... unless you decapitate or impale the heart. Adrenaline > U

Do you have anything to say that they were aiming for the head, and that the headshots were the only wounds received by those killed that way? Do you have anything to say about IDF rules of engagement pertaining to their use of deadly force? Do you have anything to say about IDF commando conditioning techniques with regards to high-stress situations? Because I don't. Uh-huh. Because you were assigned to and completed your multi-year training in quick-response, high-risk units, and "semi-realistic" military fiction tells you everything you need to know about one day in the life of a commando, right?

Jedi Knight games. :3So IRL swordplay = jumping and running around like a headless chicken, hitting the air with the sword in hopes that the position of a FTL (to account for lag) opponent will be coincident with one's blade? Whoa, what fencing style do you practice? Me wants.

You haven't got any better at this whole "reading" business, I see. A lot of guessing and assuming there, champ. How many times have you been involved in life-or-death CQC scenarios? Got any commando training techniques you'd like to share with us, that you are basing your assumptions on? And, by the way, point blank isn't execution style... it's exactly the distance at which an attacker with blunt weapons or knifes would be shot at.

^ I don't know about that. Why did AP go from infinite to finite ammo? I'm not sure that's something to weep for, anyway. I mean, my suggestions could get in, but on the other hand, there's a risk that yours could too!

What pics are you referring to specifically? Apparently, photomanip is still all the rage.

That one started out as news, moved on to become a (more or less) mature discussion, and got locked because of personal attacks. I hope this one won't suffer the same fate. This one shows much more promise, though. I mean, assimilating Israel to NK? That's as serious and mature as debating gets, mate.

The WM was broken in MotB because it's a prestige class with very stringent requirements that is centered around dealing criticals to mobs. It's a one-trick pony. Take that away, and the character is a fighter with some pretty odd feat choices. A very, very large proportion of the enemies in MotB are undead and therefore immune to criticals, unless you hit them with a certain falchion... which in turn makes the WM insanely powerful given his high BAB and the fact that those mobs aren't supposed to be taking 3x damage from criticals. From zero to hero in one feat.

1) I'm not saying Obs games aren't enjoyable, or that they can't do what they do best with a DS license. Rather, I'm thinking that unless something changes (either design concept or gameplay quality), Obs will be, I think, placing an emphasis on what isn't their strength. Again, I have not played AP, so I may be completely off the mark here. 2) Just because you dodge skills that break balance doesn't mean they aren't there. The player shouldn't have to metagame his way around game design flaws. It's not just Vampiric Feast or Force Storm, it's the fact that a Weapon Master is useless unless he picks [Favored Weapon (Falchion)], in which case he's pretty much unstoppable, the circumstance that there is way too much XP to go around and after level 21 you can sit back and watch your Jedi Weaponmaster auto-murder everyone, etc. Claiming that this isn't an issue because the player could perhaps avoid it by not using things that were obviously meant to be used is like closing your eyes in broad daylight and pretending it's midnight to avoid a sunburn. Further, I don't remember these games having a respec feature, so those are effectively wasted skill points, possibly gimping your build if you make a conscious effort not to (ab)use the win button. 3) Bugs... lucky you. You might not have found them, but they were there, trust me. Or, don't. Just head to the Tech Support forums here and take a look.

Yeah, the gameplay "works". It's not so bad it's enough to make you uninstall the game, but just compare with other games. That was my point -- a DS sequel, if true to the spirit of the previous installments, should be about having fun killing hordes of monsters with friends first, telling a story and making the player involved with the characters second. This isn't really OE's specialty. As for balance... what's there to say? You don't need to be a min/maxer or be actively trying to break the game; just take Force Storm/Vampiric Feast/Chain Shot, and win-button your way to victory. Don't bother with anything else, chances are it's underpowered and/or not working as intended. Polish is quantified exactly by the amount of bugs present at release. Err... yeah.

So far the weak points in all Obsidz games have been common: gameplay, balance and polish. In a game with a focus on characters, interpersonal relations and a strong plot drive, these can make up for the mentioned downsides. A Hack&Slash game however relies immensely on what these guys do worse: make games, as opposed to crafting stories (haven't played AP yet, though). That's why Blizzard is so successful -- their lore and storytelling sux but their games are a blast to play. I don't know what to make of this news.

Filthy revisionist, bourgeois reactionaries disguised as Marxists all of them, I tell you! Communists in name only!

And unlike AGW, current population growth rates will, with almost absolute certainty, cause all of that. And sooner, too. X DOWs Z -- Casus Belli: "You are making way too many babies!" "Nobody move, I'm a scientist!" Yeeeeah. Throwing credentials in people's faces never gets old, especially if there is no way they are going to be verified. I'm sure they taught you (because they did teach me, when I was failing my physics degree), that the less/less reliable measurements one has, the worse one's estimations become and the greater the possible deviation from one's predictions (error propagation, etc). I mean, I doubt they had satellites in orbit measuring the temperature in Antarctica in the 1890's. If the global temp average chart (worth its own thread) was from the 1950's on instead of starting in 1880, people would have a much harder time attacking such estimates... but then, local extrema kinda **** up the whole thing, what with the timescales involved and all. Not to mention that this is pretty much nth-hand data for the scientists involved in making predictions.

No, you dolt. The thing is, just because in San Marcos, TX property limits are enforced over the life of trespassers, no questions asked, it doesn't mean the rest of the world works that way. So yeah, I live in an "alternate dimension", outside of the USA (where even castle law isn't universally applied). It's a healthy habit to dislodge your head from your ass and look around, every now and then. Wait, nevermind that. In case of doubt, pull the trigger! Yee-haw! And hey, I'd also like to see you try to justify killing a warrant-bearing cop, by adducing the castle doctrine. Because that's what the commandos were. Mind the soap! No. Requirements (Section II, arts.93-108). Israel has stated that anything but "basic humanitarian supplies" will be refused entry. Of all the angles I've seen the legality of the blockade attacked from, the need for a comprehensive, permanent list of banned goods is the weakest. Interestingly, I've only heard it from you. Coincidence? I think not! Over here in the real world, we watch videos instead of mumbling randomly about their titles. Or maybe you have actually never seen an axe? Yeah, that must be it. LMAO @ the idea that Israeli govt = Israeli papers. Prove that Israeli papers are under the direct control of the Zionist apparatus and work as propaganda machines. And there was a news item posted earlier where it was specifically stated that soldiers were taken in with gunshot wounds, with testimonies that the soldiers' guns were taken and used against them. Prove that it was the soldiers who shot each other. Try, I don't know, being less brain-dead in general.

Yes, well. But it's also been sufficiently proven that your general ignorance is comparable only to your lack of common sense. So you'll understand if I don't take your word as gospel. Wrong, again The limits of the blockade extend to encompass *SHOCK!!!* the Gaza Strip. At any rate, I provided documental evidence. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't valid (we accept Al-Jazeera, we should accept Israeli papers). Now find me proof they didn't use axes or firearms taken from the soldiers.

Yep, it would be wrong for me to shoot you in the face with a 12-gauge, out of the blue. I'd probably spend a few long years in jail. It's funny that it's you of all people that's trying to use this argument, too. The irony is killing me. Pretty cute how, when confronted with the fact that activists may have acted unlawfully, you pretend it's not about "legal matters". Then what is it, right and wrong? Ah, of course -- we can't have little laws getting in the way of the moral righteousness you so proudly hold a monopoly on! Ha, ha. Doesn't matter what I post, as you can just wave your hand and dismiss it as Zionist propaganda. At least two soldiers ended up in a hospital with serious injuries, including but not limited to, gunshot wounds. Look it up. If things didn't go worse for the commandos it's because they were trained to react as they did, and medical attention was provided quickly where needed. Don't be mad at the commandos, just because they aren't as good at dying as the axe-armed "peace activists". "Subdue", lol. Hmm. You must have missed the part where I explained how Israel has the right to board ships trying to breach the blockade. There was no robbery except for, perhaps, the one that had as an object your intelligence. So, the sources you haven't seen (or refuse to accept) simply don't exist, AND the sources you provide are all-encompassing of the truth. Hahaha, okay, your Holiness.

Nope. Especially not if they are cops with a search warrant. "Deadly force" isn't a result-oriented definition, assclown. Attacking somebody with a machete constitutes an use of deadly force, regardless of whether you actually manage to kill them or not. Get a clue, m'kay? Oh, I get it. You don't really have anything meaningful to say, so you're just posting random nonsense hoping somebody will interpret and find a meaning in it for you. Tough luck. P.S. they did, alongside any guns they could take from the soldiers.

"Justified self-defense" does not cover assaulting anyone with axes and other objects that would be construed as deadly force in court... unless the soldiers were actually using or would have foreseeably used similar force themselves, without provocation. Do you have any proof of this? Being the victim of an illegal action does not necessarily mean that one is free to use deadly force in response... If, as available evidence suggests, the soldiers were attacked as they were conducting their boarding operation, they had the right and the duty to use their weapons. Of course, the contention that the seizure of the ships is illegal in the first place is debatable -- Israel has officially declared a naval blockade, which under international law, gives them the right to board or even outright fire at any ships, civilian or otherwise, breaching said blockade, even in international waters. Now, when does a naval blockade become "lawful"? That's rhetorical, btw. Lol @ "sublethal force", too. In 1941, during the opening phases of Barbarossa, the Germans captured millions of Soviets. By your logic, the Germans were obviously using "sublethal force", and weren't actually trying to kill anyone.

Heh. Except for a few honourable exceptions, this thread is a pretty good show of what passes for "common wisdom" these days. Yep, everyone's an international law expert, hardened soldier/law enforcement professional with years of experience under his belt, AND was there to give a first-hand account of how events developed, to complete with inside info on engagement rules, operational guidelines and objectives at the political level, on both sides. Ah, the internets... "Never miss a good chance to shut up." - Will Rogers

"Common knowledge", if you ask lord of flies, or use his sources. From your GlobalResearch link: Really, Global"Research"?