crackwise

Play the Jagged Alliance 2 and see how a perfect turn based tactical game is supposed to be

Actually enemies who are kiters CAN be a real pain in the ass, and it is very hard to fight them especially in a system where there is stamina. The most annoying enemies I have ever seen in a game are those bloody midgets in Diablo 2 which you see in the jungle from Act III. Yeah, those ones who shoot darts from blowpipes and then run away the instant you hit them. I might have aged like 2 years due to sheer frustration when trying to finish Act III, lol. Back on topic: Kiting with ranged weapons is actually a legitimate tactic, and was done extensively in history by light skirmish troops to harass and loosen up enemy formations. (e.g. Roman era javelin throwers, medieval horse archers, gunpowder era dragoons etc.) BUT in real life you cannot run around all the time, because you will eventually get winded and fatigued. As Sensuki and others have also mentioned, the only way to prevent kiting is to introduce some stamina system, it may be too late for that now though. Actually, some of you may remember, I had been advocating two different combat movement types such as walking and running, even before the beta was released. Running would cost stamina and would risk engagement attacks. Walking would be slow repositioning without turning your back to your engaged target. We would have probably had much less trouble if such a system was chosen at the first place, I think.

Actually, the Myth games have 3-D environment and 2-D sprites. So in my opinion it has aged considerably well. Also, if you own the original Myth II, you can update it with an unofficial patch from http://projectmagma.net/ which drastically improves the game and allows higher resolution support. This update is required to be able to play Myth II multiplayer on Gate of Storms server (the only server available). Multiplayer is tough and requires a lot of microing, however, it is ridiculously fun thanks to the crazy physics engine.

Yeah, great job Sensuki! I don't own the backer beta, and I was able to follow much of the game features and the associated problematic issues from your videos. Thanks again for your dedication! As for Myth games (in particular Myth II), they have the most awesome physics engine and the goriest gameplay I have ever seen in a game. It is an isometric real time tactical-fantasy type of game and I am sure you would love it. I am actually surprised how you have missed it as a 90s era gamer There are still many people playing it competitively multiplayer and annual tournaments and events are being held.

I think characters who are specialized in two weapon fighting should acquire the ability to engage (lock down) +1 opponents. It makes perfect sense that another sword in your offhand helps you keep multiple opponents at bay. Those who are not specialised in 2W fighting, they only have the regular benefits and no engagement bonus.

What is the mentality with DR bypass? You use your off-hand for half-swording, which makes it stiffer and easier to guide through openings and joints in the armor etc.? This is a technique especially done with long-swords (two-handed).

In real life, using a one-handed weapon and having a free hand has its own advantages. With your off-hand you can catch the opponent's spear, pole shaft or grapple your opponent etc. I think they should give 1H weapon style a bonus to interrupt to reflect the above mentioned possibilities.

I haven't played the beta, but from what I could gather I had also mentioned the walk (fall back) / run toggle as a possible remedy to engagement a couple of times. (Even before the beta was released.) I agree with you that you should be able to reposition by slowly backpedalling without inducing any AoO. It makes sense, it is how real fights are also fought. AoO should only be initiated when you try to run away (turn your back to the enemy). I don't know, it seems to make a lot of sense to have this thing and it would probably solve a lot of the negative stuff associated with engagement. I guess the additional thing for the devs to do in this case is to add the backpedalling animations and maybe it is too late for it now.

Well, that's why you actually need scripts, which can be turned on or off as optional (BG2 style). If you have a party of very high micromanagement nature as you have stated, you would at least like to have the option to assign some of the members some pre-defined scripts. I think a DA:O style of scripting is pretty good actually. You can choose the conditions when specific abilities are used etc. and your character does so automatically. Of course it should be optional, but would definitely improve the game for those who don't like the tedious micromanagement.

I think a more annoying thing is how how the corpses disappear instantly after a couple of seconds. Corpses should stay for a few minutes at least, for the immersion effect. Imagine you had a huge battle and you have managed to slaughter every one of your enemies. When you take a look at the corpse littered battlefield afterwards, you should *feel* that a lot of people (creatures etc.) were butchered by your hands.

You know what the problem is with PoE character creation screen, the skills are on one edge of the screen while the explanation is on the other far edge. It is just tiring and not comfortable for the eyes to click a skill on the left and then move your eyes far across to the right side to read what the hell it does. That may be the reason of that unexplainable uncomfortableness you are talking about

Probably it has to remain how it is, however, I really don't like all this real number thing going on, e.g. 2.3 damage, 12.7 damage etc. I wish things were rounded and appeared as natural numbers.

Thanks for the explanotary post! It was very useful for a non-backer person like me to grasp the current situation with the engagement mechanic. I had made very simple recommendations, way back in 2013 when it was not very clear how the engagement mechanics would be implemented. Here is the link for that thread: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63667-sword-defense-engaging-multiple-enemies-backpedaling/ I will briefly summarize my ideas below: Engagement: We probably don't need an unnecessarily complicated engagement mechanic, which is the case now (as far as I can understand). Make a system where a player getting attacked by multiple enemies receives defense penalties. Let's say, If he has the necessary skills, he will be able to fight against 3 enemies without penalties, but any additional enemy will lower his defense rating. The more numerous the enemies, the higher the defense penalty. This means, where your figher can easily dispatch small number of goblins, he will get overwhelmed when surrounded by 10 goblins. (Which was not the case in IE games, which I find unrealistic.) Retreating, repositioning: The characters who want to reposition during an engagement will have two choices: 1) Backpedalling: This should be the default movement when an engaged character is ordered to move back. He just falls back slowly as he is still engaged. No penalties involved. Slow tactical repositioning. 2) Turn around and run: When things get tough and you need to disengage and fall back, you order your character to run away. This triggers an Attack of Opportunity, however enemies have to roll dice to be able to hit you. Rogue and ranger type of characters can have this as a per encounter type of skill, so that when it is used enemies don't gain AoO.

I cannot find a single point where I can disagree with you Sensuki, perfect suggestions! The funny thing is I realized how some stuff were done really great in the IE games (in terms of UI and feedback).We take all these things as granted and do not pay attention while playing the IE games themselves. You notice the IE jewel when you actually play PoE and notice the awful UI and feedback. Apart from those, I also really don't like how you see a lot of info/numbers when you hover on the enemy with your mouse. Knowing what the enemy's DT is, attack, fortitude as well as how much damage you can do etc. all in numbers destroys the immersion a lot. I mean, we are not solving a math problem here. Everything should be more concrete and also easier to grasp. Ideally I would prefer "light armor", "med. armor", "heavy armor" etc. as this info instead of DT values. And as for fortitude, instead of numbers: "meager", "average", "tough", "übermensch".. :D I am not a beta backer so perhaps it is already implemented like that, but getting such info should also depend on a skill check (anatomy, lore, blacksmithy etc.).

I totally agree that the weapons and the shield should be held up and in front of the character. It makes much more sense and actually looks also nicer. You can watch some Historical European Martial Arts (HEMA) sparring videos on youtube to see how the weapons are normally held.

Lol, it actually sounds realistic! I think most real-life fights/duels are concluded in a matter of seconds. But I am kidding of course, it is not fun in a game if your character dies so quick. It is also certainly not much fun to destroy an enemy in seconds, that would also get repetitive and dumb.

The 2nd concept you mentioned is very apparent in Jagged Alliance 2, which is a turn based squad tactics game, with RPG elements. If your characters are hurt in that game, they actually look hurt + they have reduced action points: It means your wounded teammates cannot fight properly as their wounds accumulate and you need to retreat your character as quick as possible either by suppressing the enemy (so they stop shooting at your wounded character) or throwing smoke greneades and blocking the enemy's line of sight. That game is pretty realistic though, wounded characters bleed each round unless you don't patch them up using med-kits, and heavily wounded characters can pass out becoming unconscious. It makes perfect sense for a heavily wounded character not to be able to move/cast/attack properly. This was something missing in many of the RPGs so far.

Thanks Zeckul for clarifying that up, I was not very sure how to interpret the Forgotton Realms deities and afterlife, since I know the setting only from the CRPGs. Then is it such that if you believe to an evil god, if you are a petty thief then you awaken in the hell as a pathetic being such as a slime or an imp etc.? Whereas, if you were very hardcore evil when you were alive, then you spawn as a demon? Is it the case how these things are handled? Then it means if you are gonna be evil, you'd better be good at it!

What I really meant is, in Planescape setting for instance, characters can easily travel to the hells via dimensional planes. I was just brainstorming how would morality and religions function in a world where you could actually visit the places you will potentially spend time after death, while you are alive. As I have also pointed out in my original post, what makes people to behave as they do is not only the fear of after-life, it is their virtues, conscience, qualities combined. However, I am just saying if people *really* knew (experienced it while they were alive) that people who murder go to hell for example, then they would certainly rethink before committing stuff considered evil. Yes, they believed that after-life existed, many people still do. There is nothing wrong with that. What I am saying is, you can believe something if you cannot prove or unprove it. It is a matter of choice. Now for instance, do you believe in electricity or not? Such a question is irrelevant, because electricity is already proven scientifically and can be reproduced. Similarly, if you also prove the existance of after-life and were able to recreate it (planar dimension doors there lol), then the aspect of *believing* these would become irrelevant. Because then, it would be a fact. It certainly would have a lot of impact on the belief system and motivations I think.

If it was a fact that hell existed and it is 100% for sure that evil people go to hell - wouldn't you try to be good? One thing which really bothers me is that in a lot of fantasy settings the people of those realms *know* for sure that gods and the associated powers exist. Also, it is a fact that there is a hell and heaven (or multiple hells, heavens etc.) as in Forgotten Realms or Planescape settings. For instance, in Planescape Torment, every person living in Sigil knows there exists multiple planes of hell/heaven, and you end up at hell if you are an evil person. Hell is not a nice place and a sane person would certainly not want to spend an eternity there among demons and such. Therefore, regarding the evil characters in these fantasy settings (apart from the crazy ones), isn't there a very strong motivation for them to actually try to be good? For example in real life, since it is not 100% for sure after-life exists, the only factors restraining people from committing *evil actions* (yes, very subjective in some cases) are things such as the laws, their conscience and beliefs. I am sure people would think a second time before committing crimes etc. if it was a common fact that after-life existed and you would be punished in hell for sure (even if you were able to get away with it in real life). I think you get the point. Sorry, if this philosophical aspect had already been covered on the forums, but this has been one of the questions which started bothering me especially while I was playing PS:T. It certainly decreases the realism of any setting IMHO and lawful evil (smart evil) characters don't seem to make much sense in such settings. (Only if they pursue immortality to avoid their fate or try to redeem themselves in order to go to the neutral or good heavens)

I am pretty much against the concept of looting whatever available and then selling *everything* to make money. It is not very realistic. Furthermore, if you want to make money from selling 100 crappy leather armors, then you shouldn't complain from going back and forth to sell those. Why? Because you deserve it by being greedy. You can play it like a normal adventurer group and don't bother with the crap items, or be the hardcore looter and loot every thing not attached to the ground. In fact, that is also a role-playing decision. IE inventory was tedious and it is a good thing we got rid of it. But I would prefer as the inventory an infinite grid, but limited with the encumbrance (determined by STR) limit. It is fine if it is accesible only out of combat.

I actually did not like the German sound acting for Irenicus at all in BG2. Maybe I was used to hearing David Warner, since I had played the original version initially. But nevertheless, nobody can beat David Warner when he is voicing a calculating evil mastermind with strong motives! Sound acting for NPCs were pretty decent though at the German version, especially Minsc, I agree. Imoen's voice acting sucked though. In BG since the class was originally named as Thief, it was also Dieb in the translated versions. In Dragon Age for instance the rogue class was translated also correctly as Schurke.

I don't think dual wielding shields makes much sense in realistical terms. As always, a good offense is also a good defense. What keeps your opponent at bay is most of the time your weapon's reach. If you dont have any weapon with sufficient reach and have two shields instead, then your opponent does not have as much to fear. He automatically gets a huge reach advantage over you. Doesn't matter if you cover 80% of your body with those shields, you will eventually get stabbed in an opening. By gaming terms this might be fun though. Holding some specialized bucklers with daggers in both hands could be fun.

Very useful suggestions Sensuki, I hope developers take them into account! One thing I really don't like visually (and also from RP perspective) is the annoying "weapons always out (unsheathed)" situation. This is not a gamebreaking issue, but I don't find it realistic how the player characters have their weapons drawn all the time. It would be nice to have the weapons sheathed in towns and they are drawn only in combat (or outside the towns). One handed weapons and bucklers should realistically be strapped on the sides (sheathed in the scabbard in the case of a sword). Larger shields can be strapped on to the back. Two handed weapons which are too big to strap on the body can be held by the characters on their shoulders. It doesn't make sense talking to civil people with sticking your sword up to their noses! (not unless you are trying to intimidate them )

Dragon Age Origins had a pretty nice system for comparison of what you had equipped and what was on the ground or in your inventory. Pretty straightforward and useful to the player especially in terms of speeding up the process whether to pick the loot or not.