Helm

^ When it comes to the point that people don't even want to do the optional content because it is unrewarding, then there is a problem. If the game is designed well, then there is no need to grind and kill every last single spider for 10 XP each. Grinding in the IE games was not necessary at all, they just made the games challenging by not letting you skip every combat situation, which makes sense in a combat based game. I think the real problem is that many people just don't really like the combat, they just want to play the game for the story and skip as much combat as possible.

No problem, bro. I understand.

Then why did you kill the Xvarts even though it was completely optional and infringed upon your roleplaying idealism? Did you kill all of peaceful peasants too because the game rewards you with XP for doing so? Yes. The game encouraged me to slaughter the entire village because I have this incentive to farm XP so I can level up and go ankheg hunting and get their XP I turn. Vicious never ending cycle. Kills my role play buzz. In an objective based XP system, I'm not dangled with consequence-less meatbags to go XP farming. There's no incentive to do so. Really? That is sad that you couldn't figure out that it is pointless. So what about items? Will you kill everything for item drops so that you can sell it for cash? Or do you only go on killing sprees for XP? (BTW don't call it an objective based XP system, because it isn't. PoE uses a quest XP only system.)

Really? Sawyer hates the BG/BG2 Bioware and generally dislikes all of the IE games? Do you have any quotes about this or remember what he said exactly?

What you desribed is called powergaming and not metagaming. Metagaming can be helpful in figuring out how to powergame, but they are not synonymous.

One of Sawyers reasons to only have quest XP was to prevent players from powergaming. A pretty bull**** reason IMO. Who cares what a player does in his own game. Who cares if he would rather powergame to collect every last drop of XP.

BG2 had the best mage battles in any RPG ever. And they were much more complex than the way you described them.

Then why did you kill the Xvarts even though it was completely optional and infringed upon your roleplaying idealism? Did you kill all of peaceful peasants too because the game rewards you with XP for doing so?

The game is going to be a train wreck merely because the XP system isn't to your taste? Are you really going there? Check your comprehension skills. He has a vision, he won't change any of it. That includes the quest only xp part.

Don't worry, they won't. Sawyer would rather let the whole game end up as train wreck than change his "vision". Umm, why are you being condescending regarding to Sawyer? <_< Do you have some type of reason to be snide about him, like evidence that he doesn't listen feedback despite his job being listening feedback? Because he is the reason that we have this system. He also mildy insulted us. So waaaaait, you don't actually have any evidence that he doesn't listen feedback, yet you keep insulting the guy? ._.; What? If he would have listened to feedback, then this would have been changed 2 years ago. Do you have any idea how many threads like this we have had in the past 2 years?

And how, exactly, does stabbing beetles make you better at lockpicking? You're just regurgitating arguments that have been shot down in every other thread on this same subject. At least think through your own reasoning before posting stuff, dude. How does turning in a quest and receiving objective XP make you better at lockpicking? I don't know how many times people have told you that XP is simply an abstraction, yet you repeatedly keep on bringing up the same nonsensical argument. You seem to have problems understanding this.

Don't worry, they won't. Sawyer would rather let the whole game end up as train wreck than change his "vision". Umm, why are you being condescending regarding to Sawyer? <_< Do you have some type of reason to be snide about him, like evidence that he doesn't listen feedback despite his job being listening feedback? Because he is the reason that we have this system. He also mildy insulted us.

Don't worry, they won't. Sawyer would rather let the whole game end up as train wreck than change his "vision".

Well, you're giving me a great example of it right now. Yeah, yeah. Keep on believing that quest only XP could get absolute majority of votes if a few hundered (or thousand) beta testers voted.

Do you understand what denial is? That is what you are currently going through.

Dude, do you not understand the poll? 90% of the voters want a different XP system than the one that is currently implemented in the game, which is quest only XP (the first option). Do you not understand what a vocal minority is? It probably looks something like the 130 or so people that decided to participate in the poll. Do you understand what extrapolation is? 130 people isn't a lot but it is enough to see that a extremely large majority don't like the current XP system (which is understandable, because it sucks)

Dude, do you not understand the poll? 90% of the voters want a different XP system than the one that is currently implemented in the game, which is quest only XP (the first option). Not to mention we allowed multiple votes.. which means even the least favorite options are bound to get a few pity points from people who wanna be edgy or can't make up their mind.. Yes, that is why a multiple choice poll was not a good choice.

You gain resources from combat, but combat also costs resources. The items that you receive from combat are mostly only for crafting. The item drops are usually not high quality, so that people who dislike combat (which I believe are the target audience of this game) don't whine about being deprived of good loot. If you don't like crafting (a substantial amount of players don't) then combat is completely pointless. And see for me that's just...well not a good approach to take. If I'm going with a stealthy or diplomatic path, I would want/expect the rewards I receive to make it so that I'm better at stealth or diplomacy. For me as a player, if the fighter path gets better armor/weapon drops that provide combat related bonuses - why would I care? I'm not completing it as a combatant so that loot is irrelevant to my experience. It'd be a problem (IMO) if the only way to get leather armor that provides a super stealth bonus is to kill a character the same way it'd be a problem if the only way to get my fighter's best in-game weapon is to get past a series of locked doors, traps and sticky diplomatic situations where combat would always lead to TPK. Yeah, the game doesn't reward the player for his prefered style of gameplay.

- double post -

Dude, do you not understand the poll? 90% of the voters want a different XP system than the one that is currently implemented in the game, which is quest only XP (the first option).

And that is wrong because it discourages experimentation upon replays, am I guessing correctly? This only applies to quest objectives, not to trash mobs. Like I wrote, you already know the outcome of (not) engaging trash mobs. Ok, I think I might be misunderstanding you. Are you saying solving the kill xp problem by giving out xp for individual kills, but subtracting it from the quest xp total is bad, because then the player will know the outcome of engaging the trash mobs? As in, he'll know that in the end it's more convenient to avoid opponents, therefore noncombat resolution becomes the optimal solution, because it's faster/easier and yields the same reward? Yes. You would receive 2000XP no matter if you chose to avoid or engage in combat with the trash mobs. It absolutely hurts the game. Plenty of people have complained in D:OS that the stealth and few charisma options totally screw those players. You will be a much lower level if you do not kill everything possible. It is awful. Putting points in charisma will make you feel like a fool. You are either wildly mistaken or desperate to prove your point at any cost. I have browsed the forums quite a bit, I think I only saw Sawyer and his grammy complaining about the stealth mechanics. BTW, I have finished the Original Sin. It is a great game. Did I kill everything? NOPE. Why should I? The thing is, you don't need per-kill XP to make killing random mobs rewarding. Someone could have a need for lion pelts, for example. Returning, say, 10 lion pelts would reward you with credits and XP. That way you are rewarded for killing mobs without the need for each to vomit XP. Plus, if the bounty is a one-shot, there's no need to worry about the player over-leveling through grind. It would of course work and has been mentioned here in the thread a few times. But why does the game need MMO style mechanics to reward the player for creatures he has killed? Can't we just do it the less annoying way?

I would like to praise how the game has so many controversial design decisions, not because they are different, but because they are bizarre. That is what I was really looking for in a spiritual successor to the IE games. Thank you.

Very interesting revelations from development team. It pitty that those revelations were not made during Kickstarter campaing. Oh, stop, this would greatly reduce amount of money they would get from us. Bingo! It would have been the truth to say that the lead designer dislikes BG2, but that would have also been terrible for marketing, because many (very, very many) backers consider BG2 to be one of the best games ever made. Me included. Anyway, just because someone doesn't like BG2 doesn't mean that they will design a bad game. Although I have to admit that the only really good stuff that I have seen was developed by the art and writing department, not by the person responsible for designing the mechanics, who also just happens to strongly dislike BG2....

If you reward combat with XP, then some people think they have to kill everything in order to win the game. Some also apparently think that they have to kill every friendly NPC too. I have read this argument countless times in the past 2 years from the anti-combat-xp crowd. These people simply refuse to understand that rewarding combat with XP does not mean that you must "roleplay a sociopath and kill everything". This can't be said enough.

And that is wrong because it discourages experimentation upon replays, am I guessing correctly? This only applies to quest objectives, not to trash mobs. Like I wrote, you already know the outcome of (not) engaging trash mobs.