Helm
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Everything posted by Helm
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And I'm still not seeing why is that a bad thing. I mean, by taking the logic of "the high-risk road should always yield a better reward" to its logical conclusion, players should gain more xp for wading through traps than what they'd get for disarming them. Because it is completely binary, you already know the outcome of your actions. Avoiding or engaging the trash mobs always yields the same reward. -
I LOLed.
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You do realise that Sawyer is not a fan of Baldur's Gate 2. Right? Out of curiosity, do you know the reason/s? He didn't like the quest density in the first chapter, he didn't like the (absolutely EPIC!) mage battles and he hates Imoen with a burning passion. Just a few of the reasons that I can remember. He also said that there isn't much that he likes about Baldur's Gate 2 (whatever that means). You do realise that Sawyer is not a fan of Baldur's Gate 2. Right? Huh? Where? How? When? There are threads about this somewhere on the forum. Use the search option.
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I answered you in the other thread too, I don't think this will work without some tuning. The high-risk task (killing enemies) and the low-risk task (avoiding enemies) would still both reward the player with exactly 2000 XP. It would be exactly the same as what we already have, just obfuscated to give the illusion that the player is actually being rewarded for his hard work.
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What? Why? Now you can beeline to the 15th level of the dungeon to pick up the epic loot. Who cares about the skellies, just run past them. It's a feature.
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You do realise that Sawyer is not a fan of Baldur's Gate 2. Right?
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You gain resources from combat, but combat also costs resources. The items that you receive from combat are mostly only for crafting. The item drops are usually not high quality, so that people who dislike combat (which I believe are the target audience of this game) don't whine about being deprived of good loot. If you don't like crafting (a substantial amount of players don't) then combat is completely pointless. Well, unless you enjoy combat in and of itself. Yes, I do, that is why item drops should also be removed. I am fine with finding what I need in a treasure chest in some corner of the dungeon. I also enjoy sidequesting in and of itself, therefore XP for sidequesting should not be rewarded either. That is obviously the description of the best RPG ever. Why couldn't BioWare think of this?
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You gain resources from combat, but combat also costs resources. The items that you receive from combat are mostly only for crafting. The item drops are usually not high quality, so that people who dislike combat (which I believe are the target audience of this game) don't whine about being deprived of good loot. If you don't like crafting (a substantial amount of players don't) then combat is completely pointless.
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Now that you mention it the experience thread in the gameplay discussion forum is missing a lot of people from the previous thread who where very active in the thread before the beta. The one thing that hasn't changed is that the hottest thread on the forum (which is the one about combat xp) is completely ignored by the developers.
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Now our characters can raise their charisma by chopping off an Ogre's head for objective XP. Makes so much more sense, even though it is the same thing.
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The high-risk task (killing enemies) and the low-risk task (avoiding enemies) would still both reward the player with 2000 XP. It would be exactly the same as what we already have, just obfuscated to give the illusion that the player is actually being rewarded for his hard work. You know how long this discussion has been going on? Almost two years. TWO YEARS. A majority or gamers have said since the end of the kickstarter that they want combat XP or something similar that actually rewards a player for his actions. We were ignored and also mildly insulted by his game designing grace, because he is confident that this system is absolutely perfect. Two years and one beta version later, all I can see is that many proponents of Sawyer's XP design have either changed sides or went into hiding after playing the beta (to be clear, I absolutely do not blame these fans for originally giving Sawyer the benefit of the doubt). Anyway, what I wanted to say was that it would be very hard to make Sawyer change his mind. He would rather disgruntle a substantial amount of the fans than give them something which all of the IE fans (which is of course their target audience) would be okay with.
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Good to know that the fans of Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, etc. are not the target group of this game.
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Fun Fact: This is pretty much how the characters you're supposedly role-playing (and who can't Save & Reload) would think. They'll risk their neck to accomplish goals, not to earn imaginary points on a character sheet. Fun Fact 2: This will never be a true statement as long as XP is rewarded for sidequests.
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Sad, but true. That must hurt.
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Ok. Since people who like progression mechanics obviously have mental disorders, let's just remove all loot drops and XP rewards from sidequests too. Best game ever for the mentally sane.
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This poll is multiple choice so it isn't very accurate anyway. But we had polls exactly like this over a year ago, and quest/objective xp + kill xp (like in the IE games) won of course. Did anything change? Nope. Were we ignored? Yup.
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What we are playing is Josh Sawyer's vision of the best RPG ever (minus the bugs and required tweaking of course). Sawyer would never swallow his pride, so I don't think anything will change no matter how much we bitch about it.
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Shhh. If you say that then they will be "fixing" the game for eternity. I haven't played yet but I plan to install PoE tonight after work (thanks to the generosity of a fellow poster gifting me a key). I am concerned about the things Ive read and seen so far (constant resting, no kill xp is wonky) but Ill give it a fair shake tonight. Too late, your opinion will already be influenced by what you have already read Not really, Gfted1 has been against quest only XP since the very beginning.
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Have you played the beta, aluminiumtrioxid?
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As it stands, it's near impossible to sneak through a map without aggroing stuff, and encounters at normal difficulty and higher definitely hurt. Really? The NPCs act like they are blind when you are sneaking. Anyway, I said almost completely optional. You will still have to fight a few enemies and... receive a fist full of nothing as a reward.
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Of course there is a solution. Don't give players kill xp for murdering a quest giver after they have solved his quest peacefully. In other words, let the game emulates what a human DM would do. Or just let the player do that anyway. Who cares what a player does in his own game. I have personally never killed quest givers, simply because I don't powergame, I rollplay.
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Ok, I understand this, but my question is why should they care? I mean there is xp cap, so it's not like the people who don't double dip will lose out on anything and if people find doing that fun why police them. It's a single player game after all, must everything be sacrificed to the crucible of balance? I get the feeling that Josh is trying to police the gamers... Because double dipping for XP and relentless killing of NPCs gives Josh Sawyer terrible nightmares.
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Really, my objection to kill XP is primarily focused on dungeons and quests. Places where there are clear objectives to accomplish that enable multiple approaches. Get to the 3rd floor, stop the goblins from attacking the town, recover the diamond tiara of Cthulhu. Each of these could have paths of stealth, dialogue, environment, combat, or probably a mix. Each of these should generate an XP reward that is comparable to the others, while disallowing the optimal path double dip where you complete it one way (by stealth), then complete it the other way (by combat), for increased reward. Yep. Let's say the beetles are a problem, and you can deal with them by either slaughtering them or removing them peacefully. With a bit of variation of course, having binary peaceful or violent outcomes to every quest can get rather boring after a while. If the game had a system like that, then nobody would complain, because the beetles are now a challenge worthy of XP. This is what the proponents of combat xp have been saying all along.
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I don't think so. Baldur's Gate just did a lot of things almost perfectly. So much love and passion for details went into that game.
