Odd Hermit

They added the class talents that're mini versions of existing class's abilities. Those are neat, the issue being that some of them suck and there aren't very many. If they were better, and there were more of them, we could have something akin to multiclass without the nightmarish balance aspect. I'd love to give a Wael priest a mini per-encounter Concelhaut's Parasitic Staff instead of the missiles that basically just can't do relevant damage beyond the early game. (On that note, some of the Priest Deity stuff is terrible as well.) I'm not against actual multiclassing either, but it'd clearly be far more difficult to balance.

Uh, how does Fighter compete with Faith and Conviction? Vigorous Defense temporarily is all I can see that could bring them over Paladin defenses but it's not long enough duration for solo. Check the date. In May of 2015, there was a legitimate debate on the topic. D'oh!

Uh, how does Fighter compete with Faith and Conviction? Vigorous Defense temporarily is all I can see that could bring them over Paladin defenses but it's not long enough duration for solo.

You've sold me on putting Aspirant's Mark on a different character. Agree about the Rogue/Barb option, it's why I decided to go for two Paladins. Sturdyness, support abilities, and your autoattacks are still fairly solid output - not Rogue or Barbarian levels but you don't get debuffed or disabled as much as other melee so your "uptime" on the whole is better. Technically though, I have three melee if we count the ranger's faithful Antelope named "Telly". Which is why I like Rangers now, it's like a free extra off tank almost. It's not the most sturdy off-tank but it kinda works when you're just intercepting single enemies that decide to go for a squishy.

The "tutorial" area on PotD is one of the least fun things to do several times in this game. You've got enemies with high deflection and you have poor accuracy and few talents, abilities, etc. so it's a slog of missing and takes a long time IF your character is a tanky type especially. Calisca is a damage character, but she's absolutely terrible for this small piece of content. Her knock downs regularly whiff and don't last very long. She would be much better served with 16.5 seconds of +20 accuracy. Especially since she starts with a weapon that favors high accuracy! I went through the trouble of console commanding in Disciplined Barrage, just to try it out. The results were spectacular, and the tutorial area took less than half the time it took me when I did it without it. I didn't use Knock Down either, since obviously having both would be an unfair comparison. Here are some screens as proof of the magic of Disciplined Barrage Calisca - http://i.imgur.com/NH0lSYl.png http://i.imgur.com/0WoPl6y.png http://i.imgur.com/3YZPsuC.png She suddenly becomes a wrecking ball. Look at those beautiful crits! This character isn't in the game for long, has only one purpose. Let her shine at it. Save me the awful experience of whiffing knock downs and slowly whittling down a bunch of enemies whenever I make my PC a Paladin tank which is almost always.

Well, Wizard has higher int. I didn't dump int on the Ranger but the Wizard's is maximized. Plus, more spare talents on my Wizard - I have a harder time figuring what I'd give up on the Ranger to take Mark. Arcane Assault dazes, but so does Interdiction. Granted, anything the Priest misses could be hit by the Wizard. Point about is Spell Mastery is a good one though, definitely worth considering. Maybe I should respec to give my Ranger more Int and figure out what to drop/delay talent wise.

My current plan for current party, not yet in full motion: Inspiring Radiance (+10 accuracy for everyone) Aspirant's Mark (reflex/deflection debuff) - via Wizard 'cause he's the one with nothing better to do if I'm not spending spells - Painful Interdiction (fort/will debuff) Shieldbearer tank uses Flames w/an Arbalest, giving AoE +10 deflection Inspiring Liberation on Cipher Cipher does something crazy(the class in a nutshell) to the debuffed enemies, depending on level and weakest enemy defense. Ranger wounding shots a priority target Kill stuff Weapons - Paladin 1: Cladhaliath w/Marking Paladin 2: Tall Grass Priest: Cgadob's Hazel Wizard: Gyrd Háewanes Sténes Cipher: Borresaine Ranger: Eventually Storm Caller Most of these are reasonably available for the mid-game. The Tall Grass Paladin will get Coordinated attacks and marking from the Shieldbearer Paladin, and the Priest marks the Ranger's target with Hazel. I've been trying to plan kind of an ideal per-encounter party/strategy that doesn't rely much on spells. The thing it's arguably missing is a Barbarian, which could be subbed in by removing the Shieldbearer Paladin, and using the Darcozzi as a tank instead, and the Tall Grass and coordinating attacks would be the Barbarian's. Or, a Chanter with Dragon Thrashed is an idea.

I will say though, that cloak that gives 1 per encounter escape(teleport) is super fun to use with a wolf shifted druid to ambush enemy mages. Surprise werewolf in your face. Prone and pwn. Storm spells might be the most powerful aspect of the druid class but I have to say I enjoy the dramatic flailing animation of their forms as they shred things.

To balance casters and melee they'd have to tweak encounter sizes and the strength of some enemies that come in large groups. I think that's the root of this problem. The advantage melee enemy groups have is ability to surround your party and beat on squishies. The player can't really ever have that advantage(maybe with an all ranger/chanter party) because for most encounters they're outnumbered and so chokepoints and AoE disables are the name of the game, which also make melee less desirable because they're less capable of contributing to that strategy. Really you only need one main tank and one off tank and preferably that melee is focused on a reach weapon or ranged weapon on tanks only when necessary to save the back line. Casters also have enough outs to survive. Wizards can pop Arcane Veil and a defensive spell or two and be nearly a tank themselves, and other casters still get decent deflection with a hatchet and small shield w/talents which doesn't limit their casting power. There's also engagement, which makes it hard for melee to maneuver and flank - and flanking while outnumbered isn't always a good idea anyway. Tanking while your casters have free reign is dramatically more convenient as a playstyle. Last but not least, melee are easier for enemies to dump AoEs on. Having only a few melee, and making sure they're damned sturdy, is much easier to deal with than a clump of more fragile engaged melee that end up just making your priest all stressed out trying to keep them alive. ____ What I consider a well balanced party isn't 3 melee 3 casters, it's 1 tank, 1 off-tank(possibly a pseudo-caster like Chanter), and 4 casters/ranged. Wizard, Cipher and a Priest have the most "staple" feeling abilities. Druid is the most optional feeling caster. Paladins are the safest tank choice probably, due to their defense bonuses and their ability to be highly useful to damage characters while tanking rather than just sitting there not doing good damage. Monks are insane damage for how tanky they are, but I still find them awkardly designed - you have to pause and spend wounds frantically to really make them shine. ____ Strongest(safest, if not fastest) party I've used is probably Paladin(Darcozzi) / Paladin(Shieldbearer) / Ranger / Cipher / Wizard / Priest. The Paladins are lackluster damage(the Shieldbearer w/Tall Grass is alright) but they're fridges and keep your casters comfortable with extra DR, deflection, accuracy, and hit/graze conversions both ways in their favor. I also take Zealous Charge, it's nice to have in a pinch. Ranger has a pet to off-tank in a pinch while still putting out high damage and some debuffs/disables. Cipher obviously means way less resting, and is great regardless. Opening with a free confusion is one of the best things you can do for many encounters. Wizard has the on demand AoE disables when things get ugly, with Alacrity they can seriously spell sling, and put out solid damage with Blights. Priest of course just has the strongest buffs in the game aside from maybe a few crazy Cipher ones(Defensive Mindweb). One paladin could be swapped for a Chanter but I find them a bit lackluster, plus the bug where they randomly don't chant in combat drives me insane anyway.

Wouldn't use Druids if they didn't have it, easily the most powerful spells in their arsenal and they're kind of a lame class without them. They'd definitely need some buffs to other spells if it got nerfed.

Naming chants seems to affect this in an odd way. Dismissed and added once, and the problem seemed fixed at first. Then I did it a second time, and Chant A(which I had named) disappeared, but the named Chant B stayed. /shrug.

I could be wrong, I always take them there because their quest descriptions suggest it's part of their questlines and you get dialogue with them afterward. Never actually tried not bringing them.

This is happening with my hired adventurer chanter as well. Haven't been able to reliably fix it. Sometimes clearing and remaking chants helps, sometimes it doesn't. I've noticed it doesn't happen with my PC chanter though, not that I've noticed. Possibly something to do with adding/dismissing messing things up.

Pallegina is arguably competitive with choosing a hired paladin just 'cause she has great Order talents. I give the edge to PC Paladin though of course, due to Faith and Conviction bonus advantage -assuming you select favored disposition dialogue options and avoid disfavored.

I always grab them ASAP since they gain XP even while you're doing stuff without them. Better to get them cheap at level 1 and have minimal XP gap between them and your PC. You also potentially get nice gear to have early. Hiring an adventurer with Brigandine is cheaper than buying Brigandine. So although early game is when you also need money most, I think it's worth it to save 1250+ that you'd be spending soon and get some extra gear. My early game strategy is - hire and dismiss all adventurers before sleeping in the inn(so they get ~75% or whatever it is of that XP) wander around solo and unlock all act 1 areas except Raedric's, grab the easy loot via sneaking and/or soloing a few things while I'm there pick up all story companions and steal their gear dismiss story companions and grab my now level 2 or very close to it adventurers clear caed nua's courtyard and unlock but don't open the Maerwald door grab story companions and rest, come back and do Maerwald with Kana and Eder present at least since their quests require it talk to the story companions individually(only PC and them in party) for max XP sell stuff I don't need and start upgrading keep, since we've done 0 quests so far we get more stronghold turns from rushing to get caed nua early explore the new unlocked areas except defiance bay kill stuff, sell stuff, keep upgrading do quests once my prestige is decent to start the stronghold turns and get leveled up

I'd go with Priest and Druid. You've got 4 melee so you're going to want lots of heals over time and buffs, and the Druid can handle CC well enough - a Wizard is better CC but in your party I think Druid fits better. I picked Druid over Wizard for my own melee heavy party which was Paladin/Monk/Barbarian/Chanter/Druid/Priest. TBH I'm not having a great time of it though, since too often, you can use a chokepoint and you'd be better off with only 2-3 melee rather than 4-5. And vs. most tough fights casters are just better. That said, it is nice not having to rest as much. It's weird how something as minor and inconsequential as resting more often can be such a nuisance to me but I can't help but worry about conserving my spells per rest.

I take back my recommendation for Empowered Interdiction then.

If you're taking Interdiction you should take Empowered Interdiction. Also don't think it's worth taking a weapon focus on a Priest unless you're doing the Skaen Stiletto thing. I would take Weapon and Shield Style somewhere in there. While casting it's best to just have a Hatchet and Small Shield equipped for best defenses w/out accuracy penalty. I'd think Wael + Rod of Pale Shades would be the best way to go for a ranged Priest if you really want to go that route though.

I agree they're great for clearing mobs, and for soloing anything in an open space. Maybe it's because I've always used one that I'm taking that for granted at this point, but most of the average trash mob groups have always been more a matter of how conveniently you want to kill them/how often you want to rest than any real challenge. And the way you defeat them with a Chanter is, as nem0 above said, run around them in circles for awhile until you can summon (or paralyze). Gets old fast. And I have trouble seeing that as enough value. I'm always tempted to sit my Chanter out on boss fights in favor of another caster or tanky but still high damage melee. Chanters don't contribute enough to the important opening strategy and the Vancian casters can use several more powerful spells by the time a Chanter has only used a single Invocation. Didn't know Chants worked through withdraw though, that's cheesy as hell. I mean... withdraw has always been cheesy, but that a class can use their highest damage ability right through it strikes me as off.

Ah right I forgot about two fingers. Now that I'm thinking about it though perhaps healing Invocations weren't a great suggestion, since healing is reactive and chanter would have to sit on its phrases waiting to use it which isn't ideal the way their mechanics work. Is combusting wounds good now? It was considered broken and terrible for a long time(DRs negated it and/or it was just not functioning) didn't know that changed. Still, there are way better/faster ticking DoTs than a Chanter's.

I've been deliberating over this class's value to my party compositions for awhile and I've actually started to lean towards them not being worth a slot. Note that all of this is from a PotD perspective. They buff, they heal, they CC, they eventually do good damage just by being there. But how well they do these things has to be compared to the value other classes bring, and their various synergies. I'm going to break it down into categories - Buffs: Chanters have some nice quick rank 1 Chants to buff move speed and defenses. These are solid throughout the game. But a Paladin brings a stronger move speed buff that can be up 100% of the time. If you want move speed a Chanter isn't the king. Chant bonuses also don't stack with Priest buffs, which are stronger and a Chanter just can't really function as a replacement for a Priest. Chants, granted, are free other than the cost of time and the inability to apply more than a couple at a time, but you tend to not need little buffs against easy fights as much as you need the on-demand buffs of a Priest on tough fights. The one big exception of course, is Sure Handed Ila, which isn't quite replaceable by any other class. I'd definitely use a Chanter in a shooting / kiting composition for that alone. Debuffs/Disables: Chanters definitely have some solid debuffs and disables. But there's a problem - they're not on demand and they're less reliable. Chanters have 5 more base accuracy than Vancian casters, but Vancian casters get +10 or more accuracy bonus to all of their spells. Chanters are the most likely to miss a clutch CC attempt, and unlike other casters can't try again immediately after. They are also mostly one-shot hit or miss, unlike spells such as Chill Fog that have a ticking component and multiple chances to hit. Building phrases up to a big CC only to have it miss is harsh. Rime and Frost' is nice for kiting and enabling sneak attacks though, that's the one debuff/disable I found myself appreciating most and it's a fun mechanic leaving frost traps as you run. They also don't have innate methods of boosting their accuracy other than late-game Invocations, but then you're using that invocation on a buff not a CC and have to build up phrases before using the CC. Everything is opportunity cost with Chanter - you can't just use one thing to improve the following thing you do. Healing: Ancient Memory I recently found out is really nice. But it's mostly nice because it's not per-rest. A Priest will easily out-match a Chanter's heal over time capabilities when it really matters, while also having burst healing. Chanters also have no Invocation healing, which is disappointing, 'cause that'd be a nice use for Invocations since healing can't miss like their offensive Invocations. Damage: I know people like the Dragon Thrashed, and Soft Winds of Death is alright early on, but aside from that - which doesn't contribute much to bursting priority targets. They are mostly nice for clearing things that are already easy enough to kill. It's nice having passive, reliable damage sometimes but it's also, as usual, coming at an opportunity cost of other chants and getting far fewer invocations because you're using a longer Chant. Summons: Alright, here I've got to admit it's hard to beat the Chanter. I find myself using my Invocations on Summons more than anything else. They can be used per-encounter and are reasonably powerful as distractions and just for dropping behind enemies to get flanking bonuses. Some are quite large and capable of physically blocking enemies while you do cheesy chokepoint things. You can also use them to lure enemies into enemies of a different type so they fight eachother. If you can outrun a melee enemy or small group you can often use them to stay in combat and spam summons at stuff. Some fights you'll even be kept in combat the whole time for whatever reason - like Maerwald or Osyra - even when the enemy has given up on chasing you. This is very cheap and cheesy of course, but it works. Overall: Surely there will be arguments that Chanter is "worth more than the sum of its parts" but I've found that Chanter is mostly good for open-area kiting strategies and general cheese using summons(which other classes can enable as well, just not quite as easily/cheaply), but disappointing in the tough fights that you can't cheese - enclosed spaces, movement speed beyond what a Chanter brings, etc. Even though you'd think they'd be a slow burner class that adds a lot to an extended battle I haven't really found that to be the case. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, and maybe I'm being too critical of kiting strategies - it just starts to feel icky for me abusing the limited AI that much though. ____ Tweaks I'd suggest(though they may be totally done with balancing by now IDK) - #1. Bonus accuracy for invocations. #2. A healing invocation. #3. More class-specific talent options. Chanters have fewer than any other class I think, so they are pretty boring to build. You either focus on spamming one or two powerful Chants, or using low level ones to get Invocations faster... and use a small handful of the more powerful Invocations. A few more interesting talents could open more interesting play styles. #4. Move things around, buff a few duds. Some of the Chants and Invocations are weaker than lower level ones. I cannot ever see myself using The Fox from the Farmer. Ever. It wouldn't even be worth using as a level 1 Chant. #5. More clarity in Chant overlapping and more breathing room to keep them stacked. Or a mechanic to combine chants - with limitations of course. I seem to need 21 Intellect and 2 ranks of brisk recitation just to keep two level 1 chants rolling. Fire and forget buffs Spamming one chant over and over seems to be the way to go until then which isn't particularly exciting. Even brief periods where some chants fall-off(like losing move-speed when something very mean is chasing you) can be very bad.

I'd have the ranger be the tank, not his pet. Being able to equip items on a main tank is kind of a big deal, DR alone won't save the pet. I've been using the antelope(highest defense pet) and it occasionally got 1-2 shot by nuke spells. Vs. average mooks they're solid enough as an off tank though. I'm actually quite happy with how my ranger tank is turning out. Rangers don't get a ton of endurance but they get high health so with good constitution they last a long enough time before you need to rest, and can be healed through tough fights just fine. I used attribute spread Mig17 Con15 Dex10 Per15 Int4 Res17. I probably could've built slightly more defensively but thus far he's held up and deals decent damage while he's at it.

Rime and Frost chant uses the accuracy of the character leaving the trail. Tested this with two Chanters, didn't matter which one was chanting Rime and Frost.

I recall it got nerfed but I tried it for act 1(I can always respec out now) and it seemed quite valuable. Looking at it, it seems to scale with levels now, not sure if that's new. Just curious since I've seen no recent Chanter builds in guides and so on that bother to take it. A high might chanter build seems to do pretty serious healing, almost like having veteran's recovery on all characters.

Wait, does Stunning Shots currently work with melee weapons? I read that it doesn't and that's part of the reason I've been avoiding using a ranger. I find melee ranger more appealing because for a more caster heavy party since you can have two melee bodies for one party slot, but rangers seemed kind lackluster since their best stuff(like Stunning Shots) AFAIK doesn't work with melee weapons. Plus I don't like respeccing to change modals as the game changes, I think ranged rangers have too many modals and different ones are good at different parts of the game. A melee ranger could just always use Swift Aim.