Odd Hermit

One handed style is now at least more fun and powerful than it was, but I don't think this makes up for the additional effects from wielding two unique items, a durgan shield, or just the typically stronger damage and more available and versatile two handers. We Toki + Dragon's Maw with weapon and shield style is probably a better front-liner barb overall and then you don't have to bother swapping weapon sets around so much. Anyway, I just did a bit of testing with a Riposte build. Can't say I was particularly impressed. The new escape is quite nice though, sending a rogue kill squishies is less risky now. But as a pseudo-tank, the low health pool is a pita especially if using disengagement to fish for riposte procs. It's not bad but I don't think I'd build or play around it. I didn't see my rogue get ripostes while proned or stunned but I didn't test enough to say for sure.

I use Edge of Reason against prone immune/resistant/high fort boss types for better survivability. Adding Dragon's Maw to that might be worth it for some fights, tough call when you're losing 15% hit to crit conversion for it though. Against larger groups of enemies I usually am using HoF early for damage to burst stuff down rather than saving it for healing, but for tougher/longer fights it could be worth saving for healing. My plan for rogue would involve support(Paladin/Priest) to get higher deflection, but the new escape does give a substantial deflection boost. IMO the duration isn't long enough to build around though.

Wodewys for the Nature's Mark proc + something else, maybe even a non-axe with a nice spell strike. I wish full attacks didn't favor duals so heavily though. Badgradr's is for my rogue. Riposte rogue might be interesting with it now, I haven't yet tried it though.

PotD, Full party. Not fully tested yet. The Trashman is pretty much...for clearing "trash mobs". Cleaving through groups of the various run of the mill monsters and bad guys that are in no short supply. He does this in particularly barbarian-like fashion - with an Axe! Named after Frank's wrestling pseudonym in 'Always Sunny in Philadelphia'. Short, hairy, ornery... kind of like an Orlan Barbarian? This character takes advantage of several changes in the 3.03 beta, which I've noted in bold below. This is not the most durable character to have on the front line, but it's an interesting alternative to the usual Tall Grass/Tidefall/Forgemaster's barbarian that I've stuck to. Luckily there are some items to take good advantage of a lower deflection frontliner. I also like the concept of a one handed weapon w/no shield, and axes in particular, it's just never been particularly appealing as a weapon choice in Pillars... until now. The damage output is actually pretty high due to annihilation, and as a crit-build, it doesn't actually rely too much on high accuracy. I considered a Rogue We Toki build in light of these changes but this just felt like the better way to go and takes advantage of more new stuff. I'm really enjoy Heart of Fury as Per-Encounter with this build, I must say - with We Toki it's almost like your Barbarian has Slicken Spell Mastery. Relative to a two hander build, this is less flexible and lower survivability. I can't sell it as some kind of new amazing build. Knight / One Handed simply doesn't cover as many great weapons(and no reach weapon to hide behind tankier melee), and We Toki is accessed in Act III vs. Act II. Edge of Reason gives you an almost-Tidefall option but is also acquired later. But it gets points for style, I think, combines disables with damage a bit better than anything else(although...Hours of Saint Rumbalt has prone and annihilation too...dammit), and I enjoy the animation far more than watching my barbarian prod things with a pike for carnage. Anyway, here's the build - Barbarian Race: Hearth Orlan - Highly recommend over anything else. Attributes: 15 Might 10 Constitution 10 Dexterity 20 Perception 15 Intellect 8 Resolve ~You can min/max further, to taste. Perception doesn't necessarily have to be this high, you're turning many hits into crits anyway - the +interrupt is still nice though. Abilities(Odd numbers) and Talents(Even numbers): Barbaric Yell One Handed Style - Now converts 15% of hits to crits as of 3.03 Savage Defiance Apprentice's Sneak Attack One Stands Alone - Now only requires nearby enemies, as opposed to engaged enemies Savage Attack Frenzy Accurate Carnage Threatening Presence Weapon Focus: Knight Heart of Fury - Now Per Encounter Stalwart Defiance Dragon Leap Interrupting Blows Echoing Shout - Now foe-only Beast Slayer, or Bloody Slaughter Skills: Survival 12 is great for rank II of accuracy/flank damage Gear: Weapon Set 1: We Toki Weapon Set 2: Edge of Reason Armor: Aloth's Leather ArmorBelt: Binding Rope Gloves: Gauntlets of Swift Action (or Pilferer's Grip if you don't have it) Boots: Shod-In-Faith Rings: Ring of Protection, Ring of Thorns Neck: Swaddling Sheet Head: Garodh's Chorus (or Maegfolc Skull)

-Used on Path of the Damned difficulty, version 3.02 -Not the most exciting or quirky build, but I figured I'd put it up anyway. Paladin Order: Darcozzi Race: Wild Orlan (Optional) Attributes: 15 Might 11 Constitution 3 Dexterity 15 Perception 16 Intellect 17 Resolve Abilities(Odd numbers) and Talents(Even numbers): Lay on Hands Weapon and Shield Style Zealous Charge or Zealous Focus Aspirant's Mark Liberating Exhortation Inspiring Liberation Coordinated Attacks Critical Focus or Bull's Will Aegis of Loyalty Deep Faith Righteous Soul Scion of Flame Sacred Immolation * * * * = Personal preference. I actually like Deprive the Unworthy for many tough encounters, but Reinforcing Exhortation is good too and gets more overall use since it's per-encounter. You can take more saving throw or deflection talents or grab preferred utility. Skills: Get 10 Lore for scrolls and bonus dialogue, and put at least two in survival for the healing bonus. I like decent stealth on all my characters, but not everyone cares for stealth. I found with a melee heavy group it helped with my opening strategies and bum rushing casters better. A few points in athletics are worth it for a bit better heal, Paladins get +2 to it so getting 4-5 isn't expensive. Gear: Weapon Set 1: Shame or Glory, Outworn Buckler Weapon Set 2: Engwithan Scepter w/Kith Slaying and Burning Lash Armors: Hand and Key / Argwes Adra / Ryona's Breastplate Belts: Girdle of the Driving Wave(grants knockdown) / Girdle of Eoten Constitution / Binding Rope Gloves: Celebrant's Gloves Boots: Malina's Boots Rings: Ring of Protection Neck: Lilith's Shawl Head: Lavender Wreath, great item and essential for my preferred portrait and character model - I know that's a Godlike vs. a Wild Orlan, but it kinda works. Role / Playstyle: Early game, you're a PC Paladin, so your defenses are crazy good and you're pretty much a door blocker(or whatever chokepoint is available) for all those melee mob encounters. Your damage will be terrible, but you can open with an Arbalest or something then switch to sword and board. You also have high mental attributes as the PC, and can reach 20 in all of them to pass pretty much all of the good dialogue checks. I recommend displaying the various [Passionate][Clever] etc. dialogue options - many are pretty much free defense boosts for you and don't affect much otherwise. You also don't want to pick stoic, and some stoic options are kind of arbitrarily categorized and placed IMO. Cruel is easy to avoid at least. Mid game, your support has developed and you'll be debuffing with aspirant's mark every encounter, healing, removing debuffs, and boosting the accuracy of your damage and/or control characters depending on encounter. You're also a good character to make use of scrolls and items with spells, since you don't do remarkable autoattack damage nor are you busy casting stuff most of the time. I used Pallegina(Dual Sabres), Zahua, and Maneha(Tall Grass) once I got them for my melee, with Aloth and Durance as my only casters. Zealous Charge and Coordinated Attacks worked well with this setup, allowing my melee to rush down casters. Attacking in unison on priority targets with a marking weapon was quite effective. For some fights I also just attacked Zahua with the Scepter to give him more wounds. You're also a solid character for using Watcher abilities, with high Int/Might/Perception. Later game, you're an excellent counter to some of the more annoying confuse/charm/dominate enemies. That's why you've got the Scepter, really, with the fast attack speed. You're also highly resistant to these effects yourself, and can equip the Hand and Key Armor for encounters where these get spammed. Finally, you pick up Sacred Immolation, and are a decent source of AoE damage while doing all of the above. Also, on those big dragon fights, you're a great "main tank" and since they spam will defense attacking stuff your Wild Orlan racial will be boosting your already crazy high defenses pretty much constantly.

DnD bard wasn't that passive really, depending on ruleset. Some of their spells were unique to the class and quite good. They were generally more active than Chanters. Also, many Chanter builds are pretty much chanting the same thing over and over and over as well. NWN1/2 Bard builds > Chanters IMO. Granted they had the advantage of advanced multiclassing options and the admittedly hilariously overpowered RDD prestige class. Also, sonic damage. You can't literally shout people to death in PoE, 0/10. I may not be an expert on this game like some of you guys (just started playing it this month), but I agree with this. This is exactly how I utilize my chanter on PotD. They are perfect for utilizing spellbinds and scrolls without interfering with their role(s) at all. You want more micro on your chanter? Give them some spellbind items or lore and now you have a caster who is also a tank/damage dealer/healer/utility-support. They are only as boring as you make them. I agree that they can't replace Priest buffs though (the further I get into PotD the more overpowered my priest seems to get). Paladin matches this(Scion of Flame + Sacred Immolation) while actually buffing their group arguably more substantially and having higher health and defenses as well as being able to use the Outworn Buckler the whole game for +5 Defense Aura. They have 2-3 strong heals per encounter, can suppress debuffs quickly, and make fine scroll users as well. A Darcozzi Paladin can give, say, a Tall Grass Barbarian behind them a whopping +26 accuracy. The only downside is, yes, Sacred Immolation comes annoyingly 4 levels later than Chanter's Dragon Thrashed.

Chanters are a nice class design. They surely need a bit of balancing with their chants. And probably a few class talents to get some invocations a bit faster, but that's about it. They're meant to be passive. Monk are great too, even if their design is really a matter of taste. Some just don't like requiring being hurt. The worst class design is currently the priest. Not by itself of course, priest are extremely strong. But there are just no good alternative to priests currently. It's less about healing than buff and immunity against affliction. Add more party buff to other class and pb will be fixed. Still ok for PoE1 by the way. Agree that there are no good alternatives to priest. Crowns and Devotions for the Faithful are absurd and I'd probably still take a class that could only use those two buffs every fight. Chants and Invocations take more time and are far less powerful than Priest buffs and damage. The only thing going for them is that they're per encounter, which just isn't enough. I don't really care for the "well it's easy and per encounter, so it can't be strong" kind of design - especially since they're inconsistent with it anyway(Cipher...). Tedium reduction shouldn't be the reason I take a class. I also think there's too much combat in the game to build a party around being durable and slow, plus usually the presence of particularly high damage enemies amongst a bunch of mooks favors being able to burst priority targets down. Maybe I'm just impatient. /shrug. I want to like the Chanter class but just can't find a place for it. The bug where chants randomly stop automatically repeating in combat is also extremely annoying.

Chanters are boring though, and very buggy too. Probably the worst class design aside from maybe Monk, but Monks are actually fun it's just that if you want to use them right you have to pause and check on their wound situation and swift strikes duration way too often. I'd say that Paladins are also boring, but that's almost standard for anything pseudo-DnD. Chanters sounded interesting but you just don't get to use their abilities enough and the increased time and phrases needed pushes you into very dull sequences repeating only the most efficient combination of the same chants -> same invocation over and over again.

Overwhelming Wave is bugged damage though it seems like, similar to Iconic Projection. Swaddling Sheet sometimes just randomly wiped groups of enemies when it procced when I was using it. Overall I'd say Wizards are still substantially better for hard control - Sicken stays relevant the entire game. Druid's only hard CC at level 1 only works on beasts - not uncommon or unimportant, but still. Bewildering Spectacle isn't as good as Confusion but it works well enough and makes a nice Spell Mastery choice. Druids still have nothing at this level. Confusion and Shadowflame dramatically and immediately shift any fight in your favor - like "we dropped a bunch of mobs around you" situations. Gaze of the Adragan is amazing for single priority targets. All of those are just so staple I often only use those spells to get through many encounters in a row. And unlike storms, they're on demand and are faster casts. Usually once you've taken control of the initial stage of the fight it's game over anyway. More importantly, with so many immune enemies, Wizards have a wide variety of hard AoE control options. They also have more low level options and get more total casts and can really spam disable things in a pinch. Druids are very reliant on a few particular spell levels for their disables. Druids have some solid debuff potential, but Wizards still compete especially since Chill Fog dominates the early game(Miasma is amazing too), and, like Slicken, remains relevant throughout. Druids, again, come into their own a bit late with Plague of Insects and Venombloom being their main standouts for me.

Yeah they definitely need to give fewer but higher quality romances for men like they did for women.

Hirelings are boring. That's the issue, pretty easy to see why some players would want the best of both worlds. That's how you cater to all preferences. Console commands prevent achievements - which I don't care about but some do - as well as being an extra PITA to do. Mods work, but don't always play nice after patches. The attributes as they are implemented, really do not play any substantial role in characterization and don't fit well with their combat bonuses anyway. And the NPCs can't even use them in dialogue checks. If Durance could use his ridiculous resolve to solve quests at least that'd be something. Unique traits aren't a fix, they're better than nothing but for players who like tinkering with builds it isn't necessarily about power - it's about building interesting new combinations and synergies to enjoy the combat with. You're overly focused on the power aspect, it's not the only reason to want more customization. If you hop on over to the builds and strategies section, many of the builds are far from optimal but instead focused on building to cater to enjoyable playstyles and/or theme. "Possibility" is a good word to bring up - custom attributes(or, as I suggest, separate combat stats) just allow far more possible builds. Unique traits don't compare on their own. Race, deity, order, shift form, etc. are a bigger part of an NPC's character than attributes by far, and overall don't play as big a role - with some exceptions. Priest deity is pretty meaningless 'cause they suck. Stelgaer happens to be equivalent to cat which is arguably best for shifter builds, though wolf has use for less melee focused druids. Orders are pretty potent in some cases, admittedly, but luckily Pallegina has an amazing one. Background isn't major, it's mostly a nuisance not to have a high mechanics choice. Race is the only thing left and is a big part of some builds, but if races were balanced better would be less of a problem. All of those things are generally just less limiting than attributes are, with more reason to be an innate part of a character.

I've messed around with it using just Eder, which is suboptimal. I think it works better with a reach weapon. Organize characters like this: Sturdy melee in front. Paladins, Monks, other Fighters, whatever. Quarstaff (Llawran's -> Wend-Walker) Overbearing Guard Fighter Squishies in back. Optimally, use +Engagement talents/items, but also a +Move Speed item helps a lot. And as much accuracy as possible of course. Play as an interceptor. This makes you considerably more flexible IMO than a tank Overbearing Guard fighter because you're less bogged down by being part of the front line and can properly protect casters/ranged against rushing melee types.

Race is fine. Deity is fine. Background is fine although I'd prefer not to have skill points tied to it. What I, and I think many people really wanted, was attribute customization. That could happen if they split combat stats from personality attributes as I suggested. That's what really allows you to be flexible with builds. It's harder to shape them into your preferred role if they have mediocre or bad attributes for it currently. It's hard to build a high attack speed focused character with low Dexterity. Hard to make a crit focused build with low Perception. Hard to make a proper tanky character with low Con and/or Resolve. Etc. etc. You always end up with something a little disappointing - some companions are worse than others, of course. It also really doesn't impact how I view Durance's character to see 19 Resolve on his character sheet, and it doesn't really make sense that a high resolve character should necessarily be better at avoiding hits in combat anyway. Nor does it make sense that a high intellect character cast bigger AoEs. Really they're kinda contrived links, some make a bit of sense and others just don't, and they tweaked things around for balance a lot. It'd be better to just let us pick all the derived combat stats, and pick our conversation traits separately.

It's definitely Iconic Projection as long as enemy priests are casting it.

Fully customizable NPC builds. A sensible attack / action speed system. Better balance and more variation in per rest / per encounter options and active abilities in general - especially if there's lots of "long slog of similar encounters" content. Less emphasis on accuracy vs. defenses. Stacking stuff is too important and is probably the biggest issue newer players seem to have with combat. (Not being able to hit spirits or whatever) Hold position toggle, so I can leave AI on without worrying about people moving and getting disengaged when I don't want this. Engagement system has potential and I like it in theory but it's awkward and silly, needs a cooldown on disengagement attacks, small movements shouldn't trigger them - IE a sidestep or backstep shouldn't = turning around and running, and melee need more interesting penalties for disengagement attacks - like Fighter's Overbearing guard but less extreme and built into the class. Also, facing should matter and it doesn't, enemies can turn their back to their current engager and whack your rogue just fine. Flankers/fragile melee are extremely penalized by engagement system as it is right now. Separate personality/ dialogue stats from combat / derived stats. They don't really make sense when paired, nor do they add anything other than frustration if your class of choice doesn't pair well with the attributes you want for dialogue. Conditional/stat based talents (think Combat Expertise, Finesse, Divine Might, etc.). I understand why this was avoided in PoE 1, but if you want to really let people build fun/weird you need to let players pick more benefits for oddball stats that the base class doesn't get enough value from. If they're dead and nobody saw/heard it happen, it should not influence my reputation. (For example killing Medreth's party in the woods with no witnesses still gets me bad rep with Doemenels). More conveniently sized player base / multiple bases (I'd love a tavern). Option to use character models as portraits.

Monks have substantially better base survivability. Barbarians can be reasonably survivable with the right items but it's generally through self-healing rather than the Monk's higher defenses. A high resolve Monk with a shield actually makes a solid "main tank" and puts out good damage at the same time. Barbarian, because they need high Intellect, is harder to build tanky and retain good damage/AoE on carnage.

Pros - Combat feels good overall - speed, animations, most of the mechanics, etc. Quest design is solid with reasonable number of different ways to solve many things. Companions fairly likeable and interesting to take along. Cons - It's overwritten in general, with too much setting information dumped on you in dialogues. Lacks a certain warm fuzzy feeling that Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate 2 had. They laid the grimdark on a little too thick including aesthetically. Sound design and music didn't really do it for me. Nitpicks - Per Rest vs. Per Encounter was more of an arbitrary nuisance than a meaningful limitation. Companion builds arg. None of the Act 1 companions even have a mechanics class+background. Didn't really like having my attributes dictate parts of the PC's personality in dialogue, would've rather had separate combat and dialogue stats. Race bonuses were lackluster / poorly balanced, and race choice wasn't acknowledged enough in meaningful ways if you chose a controversial race.

My favorite core combination is a Darcozzi Paladin + Priest + Wizard This gives you an easy accuracy boosted disabling approach - +6 Accuracy from Zealous Focus +10 Accuracy from Inspiring Liberation (Darcozzi specific talent) +10 Accuracy from Inspiring Radiance (Priest talent) All of those stack, so one character can have +26 Accuracy in a pinch, and ideally that's your Wizard who'll then cast Slicken, Chill Fog, Bewildering Spectacle, Confusion, or whatever AoE disable/debuff you feel is most appropriate. Give the Paladin a Marking weapon and Coordinating Attacks(talent) for even more accuracy boosting. The other three can vary but I'd say add a Cipher just for the convenience factor.

Grieving Mother doesn't talk to the other characters so I find her a bit dull. Sagani is fun if you've got Eder since he interacts with her fox. Rangers are pretty solid - arguably entering overpowered territory with certain weapons - and Sagani's attributes are better for a ranger than Grieving Mother's are for Cipher. Her fox is roughly equivalent to the wolf, so picking animal damage talents and abilities, and using disabling/proc bows(Borresaine -> Storm Caller) is a good idea to make use of her high-ish perception.

That's not too far away from my support Paladin. Here's what I take - 1 Lay on Hands 2 ___ 3 Zealous Focus 4 Critical Focus 5 Liberating Exhortation 6 Inspiring Liberation (Darcozzi Order) 7 Coordinated Attacks 8 ___ 9 Righteous Soul 10 ___ 11 Aegis of Loyalty 12 ___ 13 Sacred Immolation Fill in the blanks and the rest as you like, I go tanky/support with mine personally, using Shame or Glory(marking) and Outworn Buckler(+5 defense aura).

My current party's (base)resolve situation is - Darcozzi Paladin 17 Res (tank / dialogue) Monk 15 Ranger 8 Cipher 3 Priest 9 Wizard 4 Which I guess isn't that bad but it's still the lowest overall attribute if I add them up, and tends to be in any party I create. Comparing to other attributes, all added up: Mig: 17, 19, 20, 17, 15, 17 = 105 Con: 10, 15, 10, 10, 10, 10 = 65 Dex: 3, 10, 18, 10, 15, 10 = 66 Per: 15, 15, 18, 19, 10, 17 = 94 Int: 16, 4, 4, 19, 19, 20 = 82 Res: 17, 15, 8, 3, 9, 4 = 56 That's of course my own preferences using only a single party, but it's a fairly balanced party with standard-iah attribute spreads(for a PotD custom munchkin party) I'd think.

Nice catch, thanks.

You can tons of extra concentration from spells/abilities/items. It's not a good justification for the attribute, really. Though interrupts certainly do matter for front liners, even then dexterity arguably serves you as well or better. I lower Resolve on pretty much all of my ranged/caster characters. Small Shield + Weapon and Shield Style on top of a variety of buffs is enough to make up for it in the situations your casters actually get their deflection targeted. It's waaaay more valuable to have high damage/accuracy/duration/AoE spells than it is to have a bit lower chance of being hit. The big mistakes with attributes they made are - #1. Constitution and Resolve are purely defensive and affect none of any class's innate abilities, unless we're generous in counting Constitution as a resource for monk. #2. Many classes have too few abilities where Intellect has a substantial effect, where for casters it's their everything. #3. Deflection and action/attack speed scaling non-linearly in strength / usefulness(the more of either you have, the stronger they become up to a point that they stop scaling).

You don't necessarily need them to hold enemy attention 100%. Engagement often works fairly well but even when it doesn't a high DR/deflection/defenses character has tactical utility. You can use them to negate opening burst from enemies to an extent - revealing only durable characters from stealth, preventing less durable characters from being targeted initially. I like Monks since a tanky Monk is still amazing damage and they can get away with 3 Int and retain most of their effectiveness. Similar deal with Fighters I suppose. Paladins are alright as a support tank too, but you have to lose more since they have more use for Int.

So here's a picture, I used tiles in an inn for ease of seeing distances - http://i.imgur.com/alXgdLM.png At close ranges, as expected, my accuracy is lower, but it also drops off at longer ranges. I tested this without Marksman as well, but it seems to be true of the Wood Elf racial too. Optimal range seems to be around 5 meters(judged by messing with Paladin Aura), but doesn't extend out past that. This kind of goes against the in game description.