JFSOCC

Except then you will have no idea whether it is utter stupidity or an extreme insight on the character's part. So they should indicated that some answer is due to high intelligence or wisdom or spot skill or what have you either by markers or by additional narrative in the dialogue box. Same goes for bluff. You can be sincere about your threat to rip off someone's face and eat it for breakfast or you can just say it for scaring them away. PST had lots of dialogue where you could be truthful or lying/bluffing and it seemed very fitting. Absolutely. I don't understand why some people consider this handholding. The point here is, that you may have the same answer four times with four different intentions, one could be "I'm going to rip your head off!" - Bluff "I'm going to rip your head off!" - Attack "I'm going to rip your head off!" - Intimidation "I'm going to rip your head off!" - Lie/Truth PS:T had loads of those dialogue options. It's not about handholding, it's about giving you the opportunity to actually rolePLAY with different dialogue options. You know this could easily be solved by having different dialogues right? You don't have to have the exact same words. in fact that seems a bit cheap.

no. Enlighten me?

Adventures are not vacations. to me they are.Edit, or rather, vacations are adventures. I'm enjoying an adventure when it goes to a culturally rich and beautiful location more than if I have to delve through pits of mud and sleet. Obviously a personal opinion, but one I hold dear.

What is there to think about? Nothing says be aware, like some heads on pikes. Exept big sign held by trained Ogre that says BE AWARE, but in this day and age, you can never rely on common folk's reading ability. People take you more serously whn you are more, eh graphic I guess that's what we should expect from red-robed wizards I do like the idea that the aesthetic you choose also has an effect. So building a gallows, or heads on spikes mean npc dialogue changes a little. think big! Why just a tower when you can make it a university for wizardry?

The problems with typing in answers are largely practical. Capitalisation, spelling errors, spaces, exact phrases. You can know the answer and still go wrogn while typing it in. These things are not insurmountable, I think, but it's interesting to see how to do it.

I don't think it has to be the one or the other. Niche and high quality vs dumbed down and for the masses. I do believe this game will be able to have a wide appeal while still being qualitatively superb. When I hear that the writers should be satisfied with not everyone seeing everything in their game, I do believe that means that people will be able to truly choose their own experience. A wide-range appeal can actually help bring in new blood who didn't yet know the pleasures of what RPG's could truly bring. So far in this thread the views I've seen seem to roughly fall in the following categories 1. tags break immersion 2. tags give the player extra information and that is(can be) bad 3. tags give the player extra information and that is(can be) essential in their decision making process. 4. Tags should only be present to clarify intent. even with well written dialogue we can never be certain the intent of the untagged dialogue matches the one we try to role-play 5. If tags are necessary to clarify intent, the dialogue is written poorly. 6. Why not make it optional? you don't have to bother me with it that way. 7. If you make them optional, at least make sure the dialogue is written before the clarifying tags are added, to avoid ambiguous dialogue using tags as crutches. 8. You can avoid the use of tags while still having clear skill/ability dependent results by adding a sort of investment system, ever available, if not ever effective. Aside from this the discussion has been about what we can expect from the players. 1. A certain level of comprehension vs everyone should be able to play and beat dialogue. 2. Not everyone cares (enough) about dialogue in an RPG, there should be some accommodation for sucking/not caring vs dialogue is part of what makes a game challenging and fun and the game would be pointless if dialogue largely had little consequence. I got to say, it's been a pretty interesting debate so far.

I like the idea of a tribe of cursebearers, known to be able to mitigate the negative effects of curses so that they actually value cursed items. (and be safe from theft to boot)

Actually, I don't see how the points contradict each other. One side (and you, presumably) is saying that tagged lines should not be the one and only "correct" choice in a conversation, while all others lead to bad results. Another (that would be me, for instance) says that coding should stay, because it makes sense, brings flavor, and facilitates roleplaying. We are not arguing that it should always be the best result. Different to be sure, maybe, unlocking additional content like Wisdom did for memories in PST, but not the best. So the argument doesn't really exist. The argument doesn't exist, at least not for that. My argument was against the tone some had taken in the topic. I'm quite happy with how this thread has turned out, with good arguments and suggestions everywhere.But a post mocking someone who (perhaps foolishly) posted his credentials as a way to lend weight to his argument is not very conducive to a good discussion, especially since aside from that comment the post is well thought out and while I disagree with in part, contributes to the discussion.

To be honest, if OE follows all the advice in this thread, there won't be much of a game... "Ok guys, we need a boss for this dungeon level." "No bosses, the community thinks they are cliche'd." "No bosses? Ok... How about... hmmm... what kind of game are we making again?" "We don't know." The End. Dungeons are also cliche. As are adventures, quests and dragons. But are these clichés you would hope to see avoided or mocked?

How do you know this? The map doesn't include wind and rainfall patterns. Heck, you don't even know which way the planet rotates, whether it has a similar axial tilt to the Earth, or what kind of sunspot cycle their Sun has, all of which radically change growth and rainfall patterns. There's nothing wrong with the map, only with your arrogant assumptions. The accusation of arrogance is one I've heard before so I guess there is merit to it, but it was never my intention to be pedantic. Maybe I poorly worded my argument. I'm hoping to see some consistency in the world map. I picked the map of Faerun as an example because to me it looks unrealistic, admittedly with my limited knowledge of geography, climatology and meteorology. While it's a field that I'm interested in, I won't claim to have superior knowledge of any kind. That said I believe there is enough on that map that doesn't make sense to me that it broke my suspension of disbelief. I disagree with you on that there is nothing wrong with the map, respectfully.

and if my willpower is strong enough instead of changing me I change the item

you're a troll, and no, I disagree. this forum is good despite the occasional terrible post.

I can see this going the wrong way. some of the people in this thread are getting carried away. Argue the point, not the person. We don't need this to devolve into taking sides and spitting vitriol. If you can't do that get the hell out of my thread.

Curses always have confounded me, why would you place a curse on an item you intend to use? Unless you clearly intend it to go into the hands of your enemies, which I suppose is entirely possible. But I reckon there's other ways in which something could be cursed. It could have a quality that you could both interpret as a blessing and as a curse. Like the "blessing" of foresight which turns out to be a curse when you find you can't change it (Cassandra) I like the idea that the reason an item is doing more harm than good is simply because it wasn't intended for you. These gloves of might amplify your strength, but were made for powerful warriors who had the strength to take them off after combat. You are cursed with them because you keep breaking everything you touch. It's not that the item is ineffective, it is doing exactly what it was made for, which is amplify strength in fierce warriors But since the one wearing it isn't qualified, it acts in a way he or she would interpret as a curse.

Name three. ooh! can I do one!?In Dragon Age origins I hadn't really gotten into a quest where I had to kill some guild leader. I went to my target and he convinced me that my quest giver (his son) was in fact the one to defeat. I went to him and got a story that was different from what his father told me. his words made a little sense, not much, but some. I was still planning to kill him, but he did have a point. so that's what I said "You have a point" Quest ended. no-no! I didn't want that, I was going to attack him, having a point didn't mean I agreed with him! darn it! But I blame that on bad writing, not the absence of a "This will end the quest with no outcome" marker next to it. Mind you this dialogue didn't allow for any stat-linked resolution. so maybe it's not applicable. --- As for the difference between bluff and intimidate; One is a plausible lie which should be apparent by what is in the dialogue ("We got this place surrounded" when you know it's just you and your party) Or "you stand no chance against us"when you're clearly outmatched. "Are you sure you want to do that" bluff is ambiguous. you're never voicing a direct threat, always something over the horizon. it works with suggestion. You stand no chance against us would be a stronger bluff than "are you sure" Intimidate I think is more along the lines of "If you walk away now you won't get hurt." the threat is direct. *I* *Will* do this unless you do what I say. I'm not talking about fairy tale help I could summon, I'm not politely suggesting it, I'm making clear that if you stand in my way there will be consequences and you'd best be ready to face them or leave. NOW. Intimidate is more imperative. Bluff is more about convincing.

I don't particularly care to give an entire species one trait that isn't physical. If we have the full spectrum of human existence in mankind, I expect to see it in Aumaua-kind too.

nvm.

It's good to hear there is good potential for tundra and snowy environments - I always love those in games There also appears to be some mountainous formations to the south on the map, so it should give good justification to more drastic changes of environment in a relatively small region. No!! Ugh, cold environments are so depressing. I'll take rich jungle with aztec, Indian or chinese influences, or Hot desert planes and mountains with Persian or Turkish or Egyptian influences any day!

I also think it's OK to make mistakes. hand-holding relegates the player to an observer position. it's not engaging. If I have to pay attention to what I say, I'm playing the game. If the game tells me what is best, practically does it for me, then I'm merely observing it. I liked hearing the devs say "You got to be OK with people not seeing everything you've written" (paraphrasing) because it speaks of an understanding that a game like this is ultimately interactive, you decide on your experience and it should never be spoon-fed to you. If the interactivity is superficial I'd prefer to watch a movie.

Foreshadowing done poorly. You see it in these formulaic crappy CSI like programs. the camera hovers over an object with no clear reason why it is doing so, and you go "Ooh! is this going to come back?" Foreshadowing can be done well, it was done beautifully in the first Knights of the Old Republic game, but most of the time it's just not subtle, and when it is obvious it completely kills the force of revelation that it is supposed to elicit. Edit: I think the trick of it is by making it part of "normal proceedings" as it were. it's there, but we don't dwell on it.

I'd enjoy it if I could be an unwitting part of some devious scheme. That's easy to butcher, though, writing a quest like that requires finesse. But it'd be interesting to suddenly be approached by guards and arrested, and if you come quietly and decide not to break out of prison, you get to hear the case against you. "Were you there?" well, yes, uhh... "what where you doing there?" well it had been infested by poisonous creatures... "So you admit that you exterminated the snakes which were being used for the anti-venom program?" Something along those lines at least. and taking into account that your party might avoid this because the information was available in the game world (even if not obvious)

dug up from the recesses of the internet, this is ancient lore! insightful.I do hope in the 10 years since this was posted he's changed his mind about the "if this is the result of a speech skill, show it in big bright letters" concept. we're currently debating it in this forum...

Great idea, instead of getting more options for ever higher/lower stats, you get different ones. Glad to see you join the discussion. I think that choices can be made distinct enough that most people will be able to tell them apart, without the dialogue option to be a caricature of a response You have your character sheet for that. I reckon we'll also have a log in the game "Intimidate 14 +1d20=25 pass" that you could look at after the conversation to see how it went gameplay mechanics wise. Be nice. That goes to everyone.

NPCs who just stand idly by while I ransack their home for loot, merchants that buy back what I stole from them without comment, merchants that buy a legendary weapon that I can't use with the same amount of caring as if I sold them a half-empty mana potion.

The problem with cursed items is the problem with traps: game reloads. To avoid this, the curse effect would have to be insidious, gradually working its magic over the course of a significant length of game play. Alternatively, cursed items have benefits that must be weighed against the imposed penalties. boots of blinding speed in morrowind. made you blind (but that was fixable with magic) and increased your speed significantly. I like the idea that you can identify a magic item in parts, If it has any activated abilities, it might not be apparent that they're possible. You could be walking around with a staff that allows you to cast a powerful spell three times, a lesser spell once per day, and a cantrip all the time, and you might only know how to do the cantrip because you don't realise you haven't fully identified its function yet. That would allow for some depth in identifying items.