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Joukehainen

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Everything posted by Joukehainen

  1. Joukehainen
    Not really. Even when men are sexualized in popular culture it is typically not nearly to the same degree that women are. See: http://gomakemeasand...ts-of-pictures/ The above comic does a pretty good job of summing up why I think it's so important not to have oversexualized female characters. It just seems insulting to women that, in so many games, male characters get to be so badass and then they're placed alongside female characters that, frankly, look ridiculous/embarrassing. As has previously been said by others in this thread, though, I feel pretty confident that Obsidian will handle this issue correctly. That was sort of cherry-picking, D3xter, because the Castanic males in TERA are the only males that have outfits close to the level of absurdity and oversexualization that the females have. And there certainly ain't no male-equivalent of the lollis in TERA. I still remember the outrage it caused when those were censored' in the NA/European release. But yeah, it's a start. Can go here for full renders for each race/gender. A comic comes to mind: What if the male Avengers all posed like the female one?
  2. Joukehainen
    I feel like all I'm doing is re-quoting, because new people keep jumping in with the very same circular logic, false equivalences and groundless accusations without actually reading all the pages which contain multiple thorough responses to most of these knee-jerk reactions. I'd like to quote a rapper's comments on the issue with comedian Daniel Tosh, because it applies here: "This is not a free speech issue. As a comic (or poet, or rapper, or singer or whatever), you have the right to say whatever the hell you want to say on stage. But your audience has that same right. If you say something hurtful or offensive, they can heckle you, call you out, start internet campaigns to ban you from clubs, whatever. And you have to deal with that. No one is trying to make it illegal for a comic to say offensive ****; we’re just trying to hold you accountable. That’s a huge difference, and people hiding behind the “free speech” argument are really missing the point. I want you to take chances on stage, to challenge people, even to deal with hecklers harshly—but there are a million ways to do that without joking about something that is extremely hurtful to so many people. Less offensive ways, sure, but funnier ways too." In that same vein, there are many ways to make a character, and succumbing to sexist, racist, or offensive stereotypes that represent a discriminated group in society (that's in OUR world, not in the diegetic game world) are neither clever nor fulfilling. For example, out of all the sorts of characters the makers of the recent Transformers movies could chose to make for a transformer, they chose, among others, to make two absurdly racist stereotypes. It's lazy and caters to the lowest common denominator. In the same way, a persistent representation of women in games as sexual objects is poor fare for as deep and expansive a genre as RPGs can/should be. And allow me to also point out, yet again, that I think there is no need to worry too much about the representation of female characters in respect to PE, because the team looks to be doing a great job with it.
  3. Joukehainen
    Indeed it is, I ended up changing the a to an e because people short-forming my name were writing "Jouka" and I thought it looked awkward, whereas "Jouke" phonetically resembles a RL nickname.
  4. Joukehainen
    Indeed, I'm fine with chainmail bikinis for the ladies, if you have equal parts chainmail mankinis for the gents. Is Obsidian known for writing unrealistic female characters and making sexist characters? You could read my posts: and Jumping to conclusions is never a good thing, jarpie. I was just responding to Gyor's comment on Austin Powers in a bikini.
  5. Joukehainen
    Indeed, I'm fine with chainmail bikinis for the ladies, if you have equal parts chainmail mankinis for the gents.
  6. Joukehainen
    Nice! I shall choose: "Astrophysicist of the Obsidian Order"
  7. Joukehainen
    Yep. Just donate 8$ and choose your (unique) title. I just donated 8 USD, too! Can I choose a title, now? :D
  8. Joukehainen
    The new Enemy Unknown. :D
  9. Joukehainen
    I totally agree that the diegetic, that is, in-game races, cultures, genders, whathaveyou should also reflect strife, violence, discrimination, etc; and I'm sure, due to their track record and dev responses during the stream, that those elements will be in there. There is, of course, a huge difference between reflecting injustices in our society in the diegesis of an RPG or book or film, and between letting "real world" discrimination colour the presentation of that diegesis in an unintentional, or unconscious way, to the point where it feels lazy and gets offensive. Ie, racist, sexist, homophobic stereotypes, etc. Of course, I have little to no concern that the latter will occur, bc what we've seen so far and what the devs have done in the past is testament to that (despite some of that unfortunate PS:T art ).
  10. Joukehainen
    Assuredly far more than "a grumpy middle-aged gamer from Britain."
  11. Joukehainen
    Indeed. Cuz, you know, clearly: and is saying "Don't a-cave in Obsidiahn!" That's exactly what institutionalised discrimination and oppression means. It means the social group that is discriminated against is not in a position of power, ie that the members of that group are not considered to be the social, legal, and intellectual equals of the dominant group; and that as a result, they are underrepresented in decision-making positions in society. This leads those discriminated against, and society on a whole, to suffer economically, intellectually, physically, and psychologically. What do you think is meant by institutionalised discrimination? Because saying "sure, institutional discrimination of women exists, but that's not why there are so few women in positions of power!" is a complete contradition in terms. If that is indeed what you mean, what then, I wonder, do you think the reason is why the very same groups that are subject to institutional discrimination happen to be those groups underrepresented in positions of power?
  12. Joukehainen
    Yes, in fact, it is, which is why we have discrimination ombudsmen, why we have laws against a variety of related issues, why we have a UN charter of rights that discusses institutionalised discrimination against, among other groups, women, and how to combat it, global non-profit organizations that address the problems that arise from said systematic discrimination, history books that discuss this, etc etc. No one can deny the existence of institutional discrimination, we are literally swimming in scientific evidence for it. Or, well, you could deny it, people can deny anything with overwhelming scientific evidence supporting it, from evolution to the holocaust, but it doesn't make them look particularly good.
  13. Joukehainen
    I'd like to quote a rapper's comments on the issue with comedian Daniel Tosh, because it applies here: "This is not a free speech issue. As a comic (or poet, or rapper, or singer or whatever), you have the right to say whatever the hell you want to say on stage. But your audience has that same right. If you say something hurtful or offensive, they can heckle you, call you out, start internet campaigns to ban you from clubs, whatever. And you have to deal with that. No one is trying to make it illegal for a comic to say offensive ****; we’re just trying to hold you accountable. That’s a huge difference, and people hiding behind the “free speech” argument are really missing the point. I want you to take chances on stage, to challenge people, even to deal with hecklers harshly—but there are a million ways to do that without joking about something that is extremely hurtful to so many people. Less offensive ways, sure, but funnier ways too." In that same vein, there are many ways to make a character, and succumbing to sexist, racist, or offensive stereotypes that represent a discriminated group in society (that's in OUR world, not in the diegetic game world) are neither clever nor fulfilling. For example, out of all the sorts of characters the makers of the recent Transformers movies could chose to make for a transformer, they chose, among others, to make two absurdly racist stereotypes. It's lazy and caters to the lowest common denominator. In the same way, a persistent representation of women in games as sexual objects is poor fare for as deep and expansive a genre as RPGs can/should be. And allow me to also point out, yet again, that I think there is no need to worry too much about the representation of female characters in respect to PE, because the team looks to be doing a great job with it. And I love PS:T! It's absurdly proportioned codex art for many of the female NPCs, however, had absolutely nothing to do with its brilliance as an RPG, and frankly it's pretty concerning that you would make that connection. No, she didn't draw a guy with manboobs. Take another look at the comic.
  14. Joukehainen
    I've been in a few locked beta testings and in my experience the forums always have many people constantly saying "it's their game, they can do what they want, if you don't like it, leave" on repeat. If only they applied the same logic to themselves in respect to the thread they comment on!
  15. Joukehainen
    I didn't draw the comic, I referred to it as an explication of making the false equivalence of buff man = scantily clad thin tall blonde in stilettos and DDDs in sexual poses. Neither did I advocate making a ridiculous variety of body types in an isometric RPG. You're very clearly making assumptions on what I've said without actually reading it, so let me quote my first post: Except those aren't my opinions, those are the conclusions that dozens upon dozens of academics and scholars have come to after decades of research and are generally accepted truths in society.
  16. Joukehainen
    I'm not! 8 companions seems like a sizeable number to me, especially if they're each going to be fleshed out to the level of, say, PS:T companions. Morte had me literally laughing out loud or shaking my head in admonishment so many times, and I was so moved by the entire Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon plot that I seriously considered getting a tattoo referencing it. :D
  17. Joukehainen
    Everything is interpretation and evaluation. In order for you to even understand what you're looking at, your brain has to interpret and evaluate it. That's what science is - the evaluation of observations and the interpretation of that data. And when we interpret and evaluate things, we often unconsciously make associations based on what we were taught, how we were brought up, what ideas we were exposed to, etc; and part of that is going to be prejudices and assumptions that certain people are "inferior" as in worse than other people based on what social category the observer feels they are in. There is no such thing as complete objectivity, and there is no denying that we have institutionalised discrimination of different social groups. Also, I think you missed my edit: But no, that alone isn't evidence, that's of course in conjunction with an overwhelming amount of scientifically verifiable data on wages, work hours, health care info, etc and qualitative data such as examining dominant social ideologies, prejudices, opinions, and how those are created and reproduced (for example, representation).
  18. Joukehainen
    Good point! Then again, the Bosmer didn't turn out that way. Er, not until the mods hit...
  19. Joukehainen
    Looks like someone needs to read up on their history. If you make it illegal for women to vote or own property or get an education for hundreds of years, that's going to have an impact when that ban is removed. Change will come but it won't be immediate, because society is full of unwritten rules and coda. If you're going to have slavery of certain ethnic groups be legal, that's going to likewise have far-reaching consequences past that law being changed. Edit: But no, that alone isn't evidence, that's of course in conjunction with an overwhelming amount of scientifically verifiable data on wages, work hours, health care info, etc and qualitative data such as examining dominant social ideologies, prejudices, opinions, and how those are created and reproduced (for example, representation). My point was exactly what I said.
  20. Joukehainen
    You do realize that having a female queen once in a while has nothing to do with having a female dominated society? You do realise that when discriminated social groups, be they LGBT, an ethnic minority, women, etc seem "absent" from positions of power it is not evidence of their inferiority, but evidence of their oppression?
  21. Joukehainen
    Also, for those of you confused about the problem of "realism" and why it matters in games (as in all media), I suggest Nathaniel Chapman's blog post on realism and verisimilitude: http://forums.obsidi...f-expectations/ If someone chooses to have the men in full armour but the women in bikinimail and stilettos, as many games do, they're contradicting the rules of the world they've created, where it makes no sense why all of the men need to wear full armour but the women somehow don't. Also, big, muscular men are not the equivalent of massively-breasted women in sexual poses and fetish gear. That's an example of false equivalence. The equivalent of big muscular men would be big muscular women. http://www.shortpack...lseequivalence/
  22. Joukehainen
    I LOVED both the choice of making a dwarven ranger female (not a combo you see often, female dwarf you know - "it's the beards!"); and the look of Cadegund. Both would certainly be attractive by offline human standards, but both look like they could indeed be warriors, and while Sagani is showing skin, it's clearly not done in a gratuitous or objectifying way. I feel, OP, that Obsidian is on the ball with this and we need not worry too much.
  23. Joukehainen
    Love it, love megadungeons. Outside of new races, classes, and NPCs, this was my favourite stretch-goal.
  24. Joukehainen
    Love the screenshot, love beautifully painted 2d environments. I was thinking, what about potential animated atmospheric effects? Like fog that moved slowly onscreen, rain, gently rustling grass, etc?
  25. Joukehainen
    Man, I really want the Paladin class in. Already increased my pledge last tier, really hope we get to 2.8 million! (at least! :D)
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