Jump to content
The Community Blog (An Invitation)

Joukehainen

Members
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    124

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    1

 Content Type 

Everything posted by Joukehainen

  1. Joukehainen
    Well my initial reaction is to agree, but maybe I should frame it this way: if we're going to have fetch quests, they should be embedded in a deeper story. Not the generic MMO-style BRING ME FIVE HEADS GOOD JOB NOW GO BACK AND BRING ME FIVE TAILS etc. I mean, if we think about fetching the Bronze Sphere for Pharod in PS:T. That was technically a "fetch and carry" quest, but it led us into the catacombs, the Drowned Nations, where we uncovered new NPCs, new areas, and new elements to our story. It was highly creative and it wasn't just a tomb full of mobs that you fight through, get the sphere at the end, and then fight the respawns to get out - like oh, say, most modern games <.< And of course, given that this is Obsidian and they are well aware that an RPG needs more than selecting one of three similar dialogue options, methinks they won't be giving us fetch and carries that are simple "chores."
  2. Joukehainen
    Everyone agrees that a stereotyped, one dimensional portrayal of men as big muscly meatheads is dull, uninspired and can be offensive. And the portrayal of women as sex objects or eye candy is likewise uncreative, unimaginative and offensive. So why is it so difficult to admit that? I think Obsidian is doing a great job with Cadegund and Sagani: they are attractive by conventional standards but both look like feasible warriors in a fantasy setting. So I don't think we need to worry too much, OP! Oh, and let's make a concentrated effort to not feed the trolls. They've had their knee-jerk reactions, false equivalences, and circular logic shot down 10 times over but they just keep reposting the same thing anyway. If we're going to repost something, let's repost the positive. I think we can trust Obsidian to not be sheep in the market and give us some deep, well-thought out, and creative characters of any and all gender.
  3. Joukehainen
    This. Although I wouldn't say "all," I'd say mainstream.
  4. Joukehainen
    Precisely, Mufflon. Do you have an issue with the goals I pointed out? That the "people on this thread are simply asking for a change from over-sexualized stereotypes to more thoughtful, creative, and deep characters - that's for both male and female characters, as well as any variety on that"? Because that's what this thread is here to discuss, not who is a hypocrite or the nature of ad hominems. You're not meting out justice for someone who responded to your friend, you're trying to derail the thread with unrelated semantics. So let us return to the topic at hand. That's not what's been said, and different people have explicated that many times. Such as: and and and and I had a bunch more but there's a limit on the number of block quotes per post. You could, you know, read the thread. Conversely the idea that it's all about "content I like" can of course also be used against people supporting bikinimail for women but regular armour for men:
  5. Joukehainen
    Hmm, I've done a tiny bit of archery, before. I remember the string slamming into my wrist (painfully) a few times so the wristguard was highly desirable (for a beginner, anyway). Don't recall any problems with the chest but depending on the size of the chest/how far the bow being held from the body, could be an issue. Would be kinda cool to see like a little leather plate overhanging one of Sagani's shoulders, kinda like a sheath or a quiver for a sort of realistic armour accessory.
  6. Joukehainen
    I fail to see any connection to my argument besides that they are both about armours. You seem to be under the impression that I'm for boobplate which couldn't be further from the truth. I would very much approve of more realistic equipment for the characters if it would be an overreaching effort in all designs and not just the chest armour of one character. Josh argued that the first design was unrealistic and this was the reason for change, this ring very false in my ears since this wasn't an concern when they designed the other characters. More likely is that they wanted to lessen the sexualization of the character, which is fine by me. The problem is the argument for the change, not the change itself. How is this hard to understand? It's not hard to understand, at all. It just seemed to form part of the "Well X in fantasy is also unrealistic so there's no point in talking about Y"-circular logic. I'm glad we're on the same page of disliking boobplate.
  7. Joukehainen
    Said who? The straw man. That was a joke, a sort of pastiche of various statements made on this thread. Just read it and I promise you'll find them. Such as:
  8. Joukehainen
    Mufflon, Your entire argument seems to be based on the fact that one poster "doesn't know what all women want" and therefore all critical analysis and discussion of the portrayal of women and/or men in some games/movies/whathaveyou is null and void. People on this thread are simply asking for a change from over-sexualized stereotypes to more thoughtful, creative, and deep characters - that's for both male and female characters, as well as any variety on that. The problem with your argument is that you can use that same logic to apply to anything. If people are asking for a move away from racist stereotypes, you could just say "well you don't know what all black/Chinese/Indian/etc people want, so you can't say it's racist or analyse it." If people are asking for the right to vote for women, you could just say "well you don't know that all women want suffrage so why give it to them or discuss it?" As we discussed earlier in the thread, there were in fact (a small number of) women who were against women's suffrage and slaves who opposed liberation, because power structures are held in place by more than just the dominant group. The argument "well you don't speak for all people of social category X!" is the equivalent of "you're not the boss of me!" People also keep saying that they're not trying to remove SEXUALITY, sexiness, or hotness from games or the portrayal of women. They just want to ADD to it. Also, let it be known that you arguing about who made the most ad hominem remarks is an ad hominem remark.
  9. Joukehainen
    I typically don't bother replying to ad hominems, but I suppose I can make an exception. I will go so far as to say that Moonlight Butterfly made some disingenuous assertions about some dear friends of mine. And I really dislike of hypocrisy. Speaking of which... A good rule of thumb when maintaining a respectful tone: if all you are going to post is an ad hominem, don't post at all. Ad hominem, such as accusing someone of "blatant hypocrisy" or making assumptions about their motives. Asking for a respectful tone is not an ad hominem.
  10. Joukehainen
    And man, I'm just loving this sterling logic. "Well having women warriors is already unrealistic, so they might as well be in stilettos and have boobs bigger than their heads! Anything else would just be catering to extremists with their man-castrating agenda and take away precious development time!"
  11. Joukehainen
    Maybe you could bother to read some of my posts before you jump to assumptions. And you know very well that your posts are being motivated by outright insulting others. Please maintain a respectful tone. As for Obsidian, they certainly have shown they are paying attention to these issues, by for example changing Cadegund's "boobplate" into regular armour.
  12. Joukehainen
    Godlike, and Cipher or Chanter for me! But ofc I'll be happy with anything they cook up, as long as it's creative and hopefully even challenging. Which I'm fairly certain it will be! Personally I like my PC to be a glass cannon and/or support in D&D-style games, so while a more melee-style class might seem a more logical choice for me, we already have a Fighter, Monk, and Ranger confirmed as companions, and those are pretty physical/melee-y. Also, since the devs informed us that they fully want to support those of us who wish to be, say, a wizard in full platemail or a caster who melees... well... yum!
  13. Joukehainen
    I love Oglaf! :D haha. And on the topic of representation of genders and sex, Oglaf is "just" a sex comic full of **** jokes and naughty humor, and yet does a great job of showing variation in appearances/bodies and personalities.
  14. Joukehainen
    But HungryHungryOuroboros, there's no two ways about it! If we support the creation of female characters in games that are more than sexual objects, we'll end up with a world full of castrated men! WAKE UP, PEOPLE!!!! Overall for the game world in entirety, this might end up being possible. We have to also keep in mind that on release, P:E is going to be focusing the vast majority of the content on what amounts to a single kingdom. And we already know that the area which will be present in the game is only a very small slice of the whole world envisioned (I believe one of the comments about the released map was that it occupied an area roughly the size of Spain in relation to the rest of the world). So while there are a lot of opportunities for the sorts of differences you would see city-by-city, and plenty of possibilities to represent a diversity of races as "foreigners", the actual exploration of different places and cultures on a grand sense over the course of the player's adventure is actually going to be pretty limited with what we will have on initial release. I really love that idea, and it was quite well explored in PS:T, albeit in a different sense, since there you had the Sigil as the sort of nexus city of all of the Planes. Mmm, endless opportunities for creativity. Since we have six races, one of which is the Godlike, I'm sure we'll get a good smattering of different philosophies, cultures, etc.
  15. Joukehainen
    You know what Moonlight Butterfly means, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. With some statements one can take liabilities, such as "people don't want to be murdered" or "people don't want to be disrespected" or "people don't want their gender to be represented in an objectified, one-dimensional, stereotyped fashion."
  16. Joukehainen
    Agreed, UncleBourbon, and I think what we've seen so far of Cadegund and Sagani, Obsidian is doing a great job with giving us female characters that don't look objectified or over-sexualized. They are certainly attractive by conventional standards, but they also look like feasible warriors in a fantastical setting.
  17. Joukehainen
    Yeah. TMI. TMI. TMI TMI TMI. Feminism apparently uses baseball rules. I have no idea what a "patcherarchy" is. Rule by patches?
  18. Joukehainen
    Yeah, who needs facts verified by researchers in multiple nations with non-profit goals of supporting human rights and freedoms, when you have non-sourced quotes from a website that thinks homosexuality is evil? The post was still pointless. If you tried to round up all the egregiously sexist comments that people in positions of power have said about women... well yeah. Just try. You'll run out of HD space. Besides, this is not a contest. Is he seriously suggesting that he's so hurt by those comments he quoted, that he can't stand the thought of having women represented in a nuanced and non-stereotyped manner in games, and that men should also be represented in a nuanced and non-stereotyped fashion, as most of the serious posters here also stress?
  19. Joukehainen
    "Conservapedia" isn't exactly a way to make yourself look well-read in a subject. But hey, I guess "Conservapedia" is a more trustworthy source of information than say, the UN.
  20. Joukehainen
    I think we'll get a great game. High budgets don't make for good gameplay - most of my absolute favourite games were made on small budgets (even adjusting for inflation) by today's standards. Sure, there won't be motioncap CGI sequences with oscillating boobs and explosions, but we've already got plenty of sources for that, anyhow. Since we know it's going to be in a BG/PS:T/IWD style, that is, isometric, dialogue-heavy and with tactical top-down view strategic combat, I think we can rest assured that the devs asked for an original sum they thought both plausible for getting funded and what they would require for making the game they envisioned. At almost 4 times that original funding goal, I'm sure they've got lots to work with. Hey, they might not even be sure how the spend the over-funding, yet!
  21. Joukehainen
    "I found a youtube video I didn't like. Feminism has clearly gone too far!!" Here's a few quick links for you: UN "Women at a glance," WHO, UN "Security and Conflict," "Poverty and Economics." This. Frankly the level of anger and vitriol being shown by some at the mere idea of women not being represented as sex objects in this particular game is depressing. Luckily, Obsidian already looks to be doing a great job with the representation of female characters from what we've seen so far.
  22. Joukehainen
    UncleBourbon: Yeah, I do getcha, and I do agree that the clothing should logically reflect the climate and culture of the in-game worlds. I was more discussing the non-diegetic implications, like for example the "Strong Female Characters" in the comic that try to justify the creator's choice of a bullet bra with some made up bs lore that's clearly just a weak front. Also, something we should keep in mind, is that some cultures in the world have, for example, topless women and men. This is just normal for those cultures, like a topless man at the beach is normal for us. In southern Europe it's also a norm to have women topless at the beach. The men that grew up in that culture don't go around drooling with massive boners, of course, because it's normalized to them. Western society tends to be much more fetishistic and objectifying of nudity, especially female nudity, where even breast-feeding in public is seen as some sort of sexual offence, etc.
  23. Joukehainen
    It has little to do with morality. I have absolutely nothing against things like prostitution, brothels, sex scenes, sexual explicit dialogue, etc etc being in the game. Or in anything. Those elements are a part of life, and if handled with maturity can provide insight and add depth and meaning to the diegesis of a game/movie/book world. In the case of a female bard using her sexuality as a tool, well, it's the femme fatale stereotype popularized by noir, and it's pretty two dimensional and overdone by now, imo; and very often used as a weak excuse used by filmmakers, devs etc to have a stereotypical woman character functioning only as eyecandy, and to be able to defend themselves by saying "but look, she's kicking ass and killing men! So empowering for women!" There's an awesome comic for this whole bikinimail argument by Hark, a vagrant. It's a large format, so I'll put it in a spoiler: On that note, though, no, men aren't so stupid as to be completely distracted by a naked or scantily clad woman that they would be distracted by this in combat, where your life is at stake. Just, no. If that were the case, we'd never have had wars to begin with. Ask anyone whose been in real combat situations. (And yes, I know it's a game, but if we're going to be arguing about doctrines of the Catholic Church IRL, might as well.)
  24. Joukehainen
    /thread.
  25. Joukehainen
    Are you sure games aren't doing the impractical things with female characters because they are designed by people that have no social interactions with women? Or women that subscribe to discrimination. Power structures are held in place by more than just the dominant group, so of course it's not as though men = bad and women = good, or white = bad and black = good, or straight = bad and gay = good, etc etc.
×
×
  • Create New...