IndiraLightfoot

To boil it down for me: -If more such exclusive talents for single classes turned up, -And if a pool of shared talents between classes akin to one another was made -And a decent pool of common "basic" talents was created Then, I'd be a happy camper.

Aren't we? Source? I was under the impression that the preview trees are the real deal. Pretty sure the level cap is 20 if we look at the fig page. So, we aren't seeing some max level abilities by my estimate. WM2 cap was 16. So, every class should have a bit more at the level cap than we are seeing here. However, Josh changing how you gain access to higher level abilities might have changed things in a way where level 20 is the new 16. I doubt it, though. going from 16 to 20 should give the equivalent of two more spell levels, and if we get the exact same abilities some backers might get together with pitchforks. Now, I am not saying those high level spells/abilities will drastically change anything, but it could make a difference. I didn't mean high level branches on the trees. Now I see what you mean.

It's slightly more streamlined, but yeah 90% desktop/laptop-feel and 10% console.

Aren't we? Source? I was under the impression that the preview trees are the real deal.

Imagine the surprise and the disappointment if this was 30% of the map, rather than 3 or something.

I have sailed it all too. I did find it odd that the huge bay of the Kirawara Island wasn't sailable, though.

The thing is, the system you're talking about didn't have to accommodate a complex multiclass system alongside it. I don't think anyone would be against having more build diversity for single class characters, but how would you do that without making multiclassing more complicated, inelegant and hard to balance? It's not as easy as just adding back the missing general talents because that would force players to choose between picking those talents and their core class abilities. This is especially problematic with the more limited spell selection of casters, which I discussed in an earlier post in more detail. Also I think calling single classes lackluster and bare bones when they're at 6th-9th level with barely any unique equipment might be a little premature. I agree. Therefore, adding a number of carefully selected talents - some maybe shared between just a few classes - is the way forward. Surely, there is a reasonable amount of such "neutral" talents that wouldn't upset any balancing problems. And truth be told, I don't think you can balance the current multiclass system very well - the number of combinations is too great. EDIT: Lackluster and barebone comes from my previewing the tree options for the single classes. I mean the lack of choice and diversity.

My first build, a very tanky, but bad-hitting Herald had a stand off versus a Xaurip, where both of us had 15 health max, and we swung and swung and swung... I got down to 7, and then 3. He had 2, and without a Xaurip priest to heal him, and my second wind already used up, it was like a cruel RNG lottery who would win the duel. It was me. I think our one-on-one fight took about 4 minutes!

Yeah, my new character is an Island Aumauan, and he's not recognized in dialogue options.

I haven't checked it, but I think you're absolutely right. Most spells miss or don't trigger due to failed %-rolls (the chances are always low or very low)

I think you unintentionally hit the nail right on the head there. They are so lackluster and barebone that the single classes are almost not there. The most important thing is to enhance the build diversity for single classes, and right now the game encourages new players to pick single class. A window pops up: "Multiclass is for experienced players". A new player picking a single class right now will be sorely disappointed. I don't need to get the old system back. I'm not nostalgic about it content-wise, I'm just defending any kind of system with options for those inclined to make sane or wacky single class characters.

I'm finding out right now that it dictates combat too much. It's like the factor for the most part. I'd like to see it taper off fast, and also I'd like it to be a bit more forgiving.

At least at level 6, it seems like even if the Wizard was able to spam the spells she has, it would still not compete vs a good melee build. Then you know something is wrong.

I'm so glad you listed these three plus points. Xaurip priest soon became rather worthy opponents and enemies to fear.

I've just started my 2nd char based on your claim here, and yikes! You are right. I made a swashbuckler and took everything boosting penetration and then added high defenses. I also adjusted the mercenary fighter accordingly, and these two alone are breezing through content that I had a hard time with using a Herald (nice defences, but it takes ages to hit and damage something). Well, now I know what I'll be playing this beta. This way, I get stuff done.

@Morihilane: For monks, see this new thread: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/94434-frowning-upon-proficiency-page-as-a-monk/

Monk: yet another victim of the single class option drought...

Read all about it! "Lagufaeth Refuses to Be penetrated by Fat 30 Mig Ogre" A nightmarish, but still understandable headline...

I just did a mental recap of all of my encounters yesterday, and I got more magic out of my mercenary wizard's fine quality rod than her grimoire and spell collection. It's a kind of magic, as Queen put it, but it's not that impressive.

Eureka! I just found this dev reply in the bugs subforum: So, yeah, if we tell Obsidian that we think it's going too fast and that we'd love to have a new slow mode back, as it were, this is the right place to do so.

Exact. In the same way, personnaly, I will have to add a lot of TALENT/SPELLS. Excuse-me obsidian, excuse-me for that (I like a lot of things in the beta) BUT... Personnaly I expected 2 news spells by level/line AND much more new talents. Because yes, IF YOU want stay in this "locked" (Class bound) system, the importance of number of talent in each CLASS TREE is -critical-. (Like x 2, easily, for me...) OR, stay with less talents, but in general pool. If not, I am a little bit... disappointed. Yup, and very soon there will be guides on the internet, based on meta-knowledge, telling you that there is only one correct path in that very limited spell tree to take. This gets claustrophobic very quickly.

Since it's all per encounter now (I haven't even touched Empower yet - it feels like it encourages rest spam), demeisen's point about "limited, but powerful" and "a few weak spam spells, and some powerful use-limited ones" is all the more valid. That magic-using order of things needs to be nailed down hard. And I love to add the need for reliability, if they are supposed to be this slow and limited. As it is right now, I feel like the wizard has only slow, weak non-spammable spells, and fighters and paladins at least have fast, mediocre semi-spammable talents, like knock-downs and such. Healing will be important in PoE2, trust me, and I've tried a few healing spells, and the casting time was nearly instant, IIRC. EDIT: I forgot to add that retargeting seems broken, so it's hard to replace that toxic cloud.

I'd like to discuss the AoE spells and the paralyze spells. Since all baddies rush around so fast, a toxic cloud in a limited area doesn't change much (I tried), and casting a web didn't do particularly much for very long either at caster lvl 6. And having my Herald use his paralyzing tune gave me percentages of success, ranging from 9% to 38%. I feel that these types of spells, control spells, need to be more reliable and impactful. Right now, they're road bumps, at best.

Heh, I missed this final remark of yours, PrimeJunta! It's spot on. At least judging from what I saw in that starting village, I'm quite worried how the rest of dialogues in the game will be handled and what they'll look like: Oh, my sweet fraggula [Tooltip: This means strawberry in Oompaloompian], don't unleash your anger out on me, Keupitzcj?