IndiraLightfoot

Jarmo: Gosh, yes! I played loads of good modules for both NWN 1 and 2, I even made one myself for NWN 2: "Trial & Terror". That's how I got into modding. For me, it certainly gave Obsidian's NWN2 an entirely new reason to love it! May I add to that Neverwinter servers, and then mostly NWN1? I played on one of them for like a year. It was often great. So, basically, Jarmo, you're hinting at a great way to increase the replayability of PE: modding! EDIT: Sedrefilos - Sure, parts of NWN 2 vanilla was certainly a bit basic and indeed teenagey (the Neeshka character, for instance), but somehow it brought me back to what I really liked when I began with D & D in the late 70s - the big-eyed experience of being in a party of adventurers in a bombastic and rich fantasy world, so I guess it was heaps of nostalgia in it for me, too. That is probable true for many backers of this project, BTW. Also, I hadn't played the pen-n-paper version of D&D 3ed when NWN1 came out, nor 3.5 when NWN2 was released, so it all felt like a new PnP-box - which for me is like the smell of a new car for others.

I've been thinking: Why do I hold NWN2 in such high regard, including of course, the master piece MotB? And most importantly, how come I've replayed that campaign dozens of times with different characters? The answer isn't the best combat mechanics or a sandbox world. No, the answer is twofold: Firstly, OEI managed to build a very suggestive and convincing fantasy world: They got the atmosphere right, graphics, music and sounds, they populated it very well with lore, monster and places, and especially, descriptions, stories and npcs-dialogues were very nicely written, indeed - sometimes outright brilliant! Secondly, the huge variety of characters one could make was staggering. Obviously, we have D&D 3.5 to thank for this, but OEI made it work in a computer RPG. And it wasn't just something you did the first level at character creation or the first 8 or 10 levels, it was exciting all the way up till epic levels. The combination of these two is very alluring, and it certainly got me hooked for life! If Obsidian, and I have high hopes that they will pull it off, succeeds in realizing these absolutely essential aspects in PE (essential to me, at least), I think that's more or less half the victory. As much as I loved BG 1-2 and NWN1, I've just replayed them a few times each. To me, NWN2 vanilla + MotB is the pinnacle of replayability in CRPGs, no competition, hands down. And it's weird, coz the dialogue trees weren't that varied, and sometimes your alignment wasn't that important (race and class was even less important), but I think the atmosphere and the creative possibilites that OEI implemented with D&D 3.5 edmade it all a winning recipe for pure joy. Now, I understand that some of you have other games that made you replay them, and the reasons lie in the big picture of those games. Please, feel free to open your hearts and share with us the reasons for why they were so replayable. After all, if Obsidian does make a very replayable game here, it will be legendary, I assure you!

I'll definitely wait before I'll try that, and I'm not even sure that I will go ahead and use it. I've tried various forms of ironman modes in other games. In Diablo 3 I did some hardcore, which took a much more careful approach and more hoarding-up of good-enough items before you dared pass bosses and certain tough elites. In the end, it wasn't really worth it - it wasn't that exciting, I'm too old to get a kick from games that way. But I must say that XCOM EU:s hardcore certainly got me juices going a fari bit, so perhaps PE's can be something like that. Being a quite seasoned CRP-gamer, I nearly always pick hard difficulty, though, and one of the best I can remember in later years is actually Obsidian's hardcore difficulty for DS III. The challenge was there all along, it felt like certain computer games from the 80s and 90s that didn't compromise on difficulty. Heck, just a short bit into DS III, you'll meet a witch who means business. That was great! So yea, sometimes a bit of frustrating setbacks can make a game better, at least for me, but no masochism, please! Most importantly, just like D&D-based CRPGS, I will engage myself in the characters I'll roll up, so they won't be power-gamey all the time, that usually happen in me 3rd or 4th playthrough, and perhaps then I'll switch to PE's ironman mode.

Now this is a first: I just added this entire thread to the thread "Ideas not to be forgotten" in General Discussion! You guys rock, so many great ideas here. Obsidian would be wise to read this thread carefully. Now I'll go on and lovebomb this thread with likes!

Just adding a new link to the list of great ideas, namely to an entire thread started by Hormalakh, which is flowing over with very nice and innovative ideas on the cipher class: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63205-ciphers-inspirations-and-their-mechanics/ Adding each one of them to the list would be overkill, so I'll just call it innovatice cipher ideas on the list. -Magical items are very rare, gold is for consumables: lll -Loot is "branded/tagged", origin of items affects NPCs differently: l -Crafted magical items are few, unique and true achievements: lll -Temporary abstract armour degradation in combat, repairs are "automagical": ll -Armour and weaponry can get "enfeebled"/"fatigued" over time, easy repair: ll -Individual party-member quests in cities to challenge their personal strengths & weaknesses: lll -Beast-of-burden teams embodying the deep stash; they are useful and sometimes shady: ll -Give magical non-weapon items much more love: ll -Magical artefacts for our houses and strongholds: ll -Maps, weather and environment affecting spells and the party: l -Nice UI for weather and temperature, including an adaptive fog of war: l -Guns can be used on certain doors and chests to open them: l -Innovative ideas for strategic cipher abilities before and during encounters: l

Thanks, BruceVC, and yea, Deathrap Dungeon! I still have that book. It's great. JFSOCC: Your Madness Assassin just made PE a mature RPG, coz it scares the living daylights out of me!

From classic fantasy novels and such: Mirror Demon If someone in your party lingers too long in front of an old and beautifully ornate, oak-framed looking glass that someone gets sucked in to a hideous mirror realm alone and have to fend off kaleidoscopic mind-messing horrors. The poor soul that got caught in the mirror realm is stuck there until the rest of the party can slay the mirror demon that took its place. The mirror demon that steps out of the mirror looks like the party member it replaced but with eyes that reflect all light and glass shards for hands. The mirror demon is a tremendous adversary, blinding opponents, fracturing reality with cipher-abilites and super-swift sweeps with those razor-sharp hands. Scarily enough, it is dead silent in all its movements.

Sirchet, I'll join you in your choir of deploration (just adding guns shooting locks to the begging): Please OE, and let us know soon. And if it is a dreaded no, please explain why.

The spirit meter in MotB had all those elements. Some hated it (suprisingly many), others like me were on the fence at first, and a few were happy at the get-go. I agree with Umblerlin, though, the best diseases in games border on annoying. On rare occasions, there are diseases and the like in games that can be both a curse and a gift. In Might & Magic, at least in the later ones, you could become a playable lich, for instance.

Some guy: I love this idea! Using guns on locks on doors and chests seem reasonable and exciting. And it most likely would come with some danger (ricochet, traps), and it is loud business. Also, a little ammo would be wasted. I've added it to the thread "Ideas not to be forgotten" in General Discussions. EDIT: I actually wrote this post a few hours back, but for some reason it disappeared.

Adding a new great idea, this time by Some guy on Feb 7 2013: The use of guns on the locks of doors and chests. I've added that it could be dangerous, and it would waste ammo. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63310-knock-knock/page-2 -Magical items are very rare, gold is for consumables: lll -Loot is "branded/tagged", origin of items affects NPCs differently: l -Crafted magical items are few, unique and true achievements: lll -Temporary abstract armour degradation in combat, repairs are "automagical": ll -Armour and weaponry can get "enfeebled"/"fatigued" over time, easy repair: ll -Individual party-member quests in cities to challenge their personal strengths & weaknesses: lll -Beast-of-burden teams embodying the deep stash; they are useful and sometimes shady: ll -Give magical non-weapon items much more love: ll -Magical artefacts for our houses and strongholds: ll -Maps, weather and environment affecting spells and the party: l -Nice UI for weather and temperature, including an adaptive fog of war: l -Guns can be used on certain doors and chests to open them: l

Rogues have bonuses to opening locks, but other classes can take that skill as well. We won't include spells or abilities that make invested skills obsolete. But perhaps strong characters still could be able to try bashing doors, no? But it will take longer, and it will be much louder, and the door will break. Perhaps the basher will be a bit bruised up as well or slightly off in some skill-regard. In short, is this bye-bye for kickin' in doors too?

Yes to all, it just seems fitting in a game with Orlan detectives snooping about in cities. It would make cities even more versatile. And imagine bashing in the door to that orphanage with your maniac barbarian in the dead of night, having him howling: "Me need pap already!!!"

Wonderful update! The dwarves look great, kudos to you, Dimitri! And Kieran, if it's you who's made that lovely Sherlock Orlan (I mean, hey, it's a "K"), then a big hug from me! As for doors, this is a subject that I certainly love and hate myself. I recently made a topic about it: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63298-listening-at-doors-and-peeping-in-pe/ The hate bit comes from modding. It often is the doors that make you tear your hair out. Not only the snapping but them working reliable, including calling its Use-function. 2Late2Die: Welcome to the forums! You wrote: "So I was wondering about door states - you only mention "open" and "close" but talk about "a few". Does that mean we might see another door state? Like maybe a partial open state that could be engaged by a theif and if they're skilled enough they could partially see and hear into the other room - maybe to overhear a piece of key dialogue w/o having to engage the enemy, or spy the monsters' position before entering the room." That's basic our suggestion over at that topic, so yeah, it would be great! JFSOCC proposed an ear icon, which could pop up and be used for such occasions. And if your idea with another door state is in: Like the door is AJAR, then the risk and the benfits would increase. Osvir and Nikos pretty much covers what you could do to doors and doorways (even windows). I just would like to add that I think XCOM EUs bursting through a door-mechanic when dashing is pretty neat. Not that we would need a pre-made slomo cutscene to go with it.

TRX850: That would be very appreciated, good idea, that would almost be a first for this kind of isometric party-based RPG. As for the possibility of height advantages in an isometric game with tactical combat I think of the way XCOM EU present height differences. If something would be implemented for PE, we could begin to dish out bonuses and penalty points for where we stand in a certain terrain (including cities with tables and sheds and what not).

Great, JFSOCC! I've just edited the listing descriptions for the ideas and made them as brief as possible: -Magical items are very rare, gold is for consumables: lll -Loot is "branded/tagged", origin of items affects NPCs differently: l -Crafted magical items are few, unique and true achievements: lll -Temporary abstract armour degradation in combat, repairs are "automagical": ll -Armour and weaponry can get "enfeebled"/"fatigued" over time, easy repair: ll -Individual party-member quests in cities to challenge their personal strengths & weaknesses: lll -Beast-of-burden teams embodying the deep stash; they are useful and sometimes shady: ll -Give magical non-weapon items much more love: ll -Magical artefacts for our houses and strongholds: ll -Maps, weather and environment affecting spells and the party: l -Nice UI for weather and temperature, including an adaptive fog of war: l

I've dug up some more old treasure in the Gameplay and Mechanics forums: Crusty came up with this Oct 6 2012, inspired by a Tim Cain quote: "I was reading Tim Cain's Q&A on Reddit today and this quote stuck out in particular: Quote It got me thinking, well, maybe spells can combine, but what about with the maps and environment? I'm not necessarily talking about Silent Storm level of destructible environment, but wouldn't it be fun if the environment played an effect in how you played the game and you could use your abilities/spells to manipulate it for better or worse? What if you were in a mountainous region of the gameworld? Temperatures are freezing cold, the wind chilly and the snow becoming more and more bothersome. It stands to reason that your party (and any enemies) would have to deal with the environment as much as each other and plan accordingly. Fire spells become ineffective, frost spells become more deadly. Fatigue wastes away much quicker, movement speed is slower and abilities that focus on conservation of movement/energy become much more useful. Beyond environmental effects, there's also potential for having environments that interact better with certain types of souls, as well as having environmental interaction have involvement in combat and puzzles. Using physical abilities to demolish small fences and walls, hurting enemies on the other side and/or creating tactical openings. Using fire spells to clear thick shrubs and vines in a forest and discovering a secret path, etc etc." And Rjshae added a synergetic idea to this: "Since the view is always isomorphic and downward facing, it would be nice to have a time indicator panel that also showed the weather conditions, including something to say whether it's hot or cold. (Pretty sky pictures with moving clouds are a plus.) A well-done implementation would allow skilled players to guess the pending weather conditions and try to take shelter before a big storm hit. It would also be realistic if the fog of war was impacted by the weather; heavy rain, thick fog, or night should make it much more difficult to map the area." http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61148-environmental-interaction-and-effects/ -Magical items are very rare, gold for consumables: lll -Loot is "branded/tagged", origin of items affect NPCs differently: l -Crafted magical items are few, unique and true achievements: lll -Temporary abstract armour degradation in combat, repairs are "automagical": ll -Armours and weapons can get "enfeebled"/"fatigued" over time, easy repair: ll -Party-members can have individual (non-party) quests in cities to showcase and challenge their personal strengths and weaknesses. lll -Beast-of-burden teams embodying the deep stash; they are useful and sometimes shady: l -Give magical non-weapon items much more love: l -Magical artefacts for our houses and strongholds: l -Maps, weather and environment affecting spells and the party: l -Nice UI for weather and temperature, including an adaptive fog of war: l

Yup! But don't forget the Human Stun Gun who knocks his opponents without even touching them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R__XluUdd_k EDIT: Multi-classed human: monk/cipher?

I've started digging into our great forums and unearthed two more great ideas I'd like to add to the list: PsychoBlonde brought up the first: "Put in some cool interesting non-weapon items please. In fact, these should be the vast majority of items, since you generally have, like, 12 slots for non-weapon items and can only use one (or at most, two) weapons at a time. Yes, I know there are more TYPES of weapons (cosmetically speaking) than there are types of belts or pants, but I'm perfectly happy if somebody in the party gets stuck with a dagger if the selection of magical rings isn't so small that the only person with 2 is my PC." "Some type of artifact that can be inserted into your house or stronghold would be good." And Rjshae the other just above , all in the same thread, Oct 20, 2012: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61789-non-weapon-artifacts/ -Magical items are very rare, gold for consumables: lll -Loot is "branded/tagged", origin of items affect NPCs differently: l -Crafted magical items are few, unique and true achievements: lll -Temporary abstract armour degradation in combat, repairs are "automagical": ll -Armours and weapons can get "enfeebled"/"fatigued" over time, easy repair: ll -Party-members can have individual (non-party) quests in cities to showcase and challenge their personal strengths and weaknesses. lll -Beast-of-burden teams embodying the deep stash; they are useful and sometimes shady: l -Give magical non-weapon items much more love: l -Magical artefacts for our houses and strongholds: l

Hehe, sometimes I just write slobbily on purpose: thru, sorta, wanna... Sorry, I'll try to stick to the spelling rules forthwith Nice suggestion: An ear symbol with a popup with simple messages would do nicely for a start. If they somehow could make that a bit randomized from one playthrough to the next, the merrier.

Thanks for the suggestion of pinning it, guys! I hadn't thought about that. I could take editorial responsible for this thread, nemas problemas. And keep scouring the boards for the ideas that you really like and believe in, I know I will. Pasting in a quote of the idea isn't mandatory, but providing a forum link to the idea is. And just to keep things neat, here is the list as it stands: -Magical items are very rare, gold for consumables: lll -Loot is "branded/tagged", origin of items affect NPCs differently: l -Crafted magical items are few, unique and true achievements: lll -Temporary abstract armour degradation in combat, repairs are "automagical": ll -Armours and weapons can get "enfeebled"/"fatigued" over time, easy repair: ll -Party-members can have individual (non-party) quests in cities to showcase and challenge their personal strengths and weaknesses. lll -Beast-of-burden teams embodying the deep stash; they are useful and sometimes shady: l

Inspired by the news that they've confirmed it was Richard III that rested beneath a parking lot in Leicester, I'd love to have a nudge to this amazing find in PE: In one of the large cities, underneath a carriage shed, outside a poultry-house, there shall lie a ruler of royal blood that is known for a quote in the same vein as "A horse, a horse, a kingdom for a horse": My suggestion is a queen that died with a forked trident in hand at the battle of Chookmeazle trying to defend her realm. Her name was Galla KFC. It is said that she clucked: "A fief, a fief, a fief for an ostrich!"

That last sentence, I shall cherish for a long time. I never bought a walkthrough in my life, and although I understand why people use them online, it would be great if some things in the game are slightly varied to the extent that it suprises you from playthru to playthru.

Another idea: When finding spell scrolls, it would be great if those scrolls that are too high a level for a character still could be something you could risk trying. In AD&D, you had tables for this, with level difference and percentages of total failure and perecentages for reverse or harmful effect. I mean, we need fun role-playing stories to tell: I would love to reiterate about my crazy Dwarven spell-user that dared reading a scroll seven levels too high and had the amazing luck with it against that horrid troglodyte in the inglenook at Ma Baker's.

I just loved that listening at doors-mechanic in D&D. Some races had keen hearing. Imagine what the Orlan can do with those ears! When I played Dishonored, I also loved that peek thru the keyhole thing. There were also abilites (improvements on Corvo's helmet too) where you could "zoom in" on people and eavesdrop. Imagine in PE's cities, where we already have Orlan detectives snooping about, if it was possible to listen at doors, peek thru keyholes and windows etc. It would come with risks but also rewards, especially RP-rewards. Hopefully, this can be done with simple solutions, sometimes using the graphics available, other times just popup a text window describing what we hear or see.