IndiraLightfoot

KaineParker: Obviously, I followed PathFinder with great interest, but as I rarely play PnP nowadays. I sorta spent my time trying to make 4th ed work, but I didn't. So, I revert to good old 3.5. However, I realize, I'll prolly can get PF real cheap now, so thanks for the kindly tip!

You're absolutely right about D&D was excluding potential newcomers in that respect. Those aren't some rules you read up on one afternoon. On a personal note, having played PnP D&D a lot. We were slightly geekish at times, but we never dressed up. We left that to the larpers. Rest assured, Obsidian has oodles of experience and the best possible background for making a new party-based western CRPG.

Indeed! And may I add "freedom"? Now, Obsidian finally get to do what they have dreamt about doing - making a new fantasy world, their own, instead of piggybacking on some other legacy.

Killyox & Gumbercules: Great posts, both of you! They sum up a lot of the things I didn't get to say in that starting discussion. I think that the spirit of the IE games is what Gumbercules delineate, and not the D&D mechanics. Also, D&D evolved, and along with them IE games (IWD2). Personally, D&D to me is: 3.5>3.0>AD&D>D&D>4.0.

No need any longer, Gfted1. See General Discussions!

Chrononaut: "It's disappointing on a matter of general principle too. Obsidian (and L.Designer Sawyer) essentially appealed to Kickstarter based entirely on Infinity Engine AD&D, and then when they got the money wasted no time at all (well, mostly Sawyer) making nothing but incessant criticisms of the Infinity Engine games and how they played. Resting is bad, daily spells are bad, cooldowns aren't bad, class-based restrictions are bad, round-based combat is bad, dice-roll randomness is bad in combat, wizards being powerful is bad, everything must be super balanced. So Infinity Engine games were awesome on Kickstarter, but now they suck, apparently, and OE want to make a completely different game. Seems to me like this game will play more like an RTS and less like an AD&D IE game, even though fans were led to believe it would be an IE-like game. I don't think prerendered isometric graphics make it IE-like except from a completely cosmetic angle, the gameplay is shaping up to be nothing like IE gameplay." Indira Lightfoot: "You would be hard-pressed to find a bigger D&D fan than me, and needless to say, I loved the IE games back in the day. However, I'm also mature enough to admit that playing them now, as I have done for the past six months, is a different experience. Games and game design have evolved. The UI is severely lacking, the pacing is pretty bad and many encounters turn out to be ill-conceived slugfests. Having said that, I still enjoy them immensely. Why? Because the character generation systems and the fantasy stories are so bloody good (for the most part). I'm sorry if you are truly disappointed in this regard (hopefully, you aren't just trolling us), but let's backtrack and quote some stuff from Obsidian's KS, straight off the pages there: "Project Eternity is an isometric, party-based computer RPG set in a new fantasy world developed by Obsidian Entertainment." "Project Eternity (working title) pays homage to the great Infinity Engine games of years past: Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment. Project Eternity aims to recapture the magic, imagination, depth, and nostalgia of classic RPG's that we enjoyed making - and playing." Alright, so they are making a new fantasy world that pays homage to the great IE games of the past, but nowhere does it say, they'll reuse the mechanics of those games, and especially not down to every little detail. "Combat uses a tactical real-time with pause system - positioning your party and coordinating attacks and abilities is one of the keys to success." Funny that you mention RTS. I'm playing COH2 right now, I am loving it (while being new to the genre), and this above quote tells me that they are actually going to make combat less swish-swoosh, and more about positions, coordination and timing - well, let's call this tactics and strategy - and I am all for this kind of change. It sounds fresh and exciting, to say the least. Obsidian also seems to share my excitement in this: "We are excited at this chance to create something new, yet reminiscent of those great games and we want you to be a part of it as well." It will be different, no doubt, but it will hopefully be darn good too. " Chrononaut: "That's semantics, really. And quoting that stuff given much BG/IWD/PST were namedropped when they needed fans' help... is very disingenuous. It's like saying "Oh wait you didn't read the fine-print". But on the topic of RTS-like tactics, I'll agree on ideas such as positioning. But I think when dealing with an RPG, RTS-like gameplay would be quite boring, tight ranges for damage and saving throws + very little randomness would boil down most fights to puzzles which are determined before the fight even begins. Indeed whether you liked it or not, one of the more memorable things about IE combat were seeing goblins get a lucky attack roll and take out one of your characters, or an enemy missing an attack when you had 1 hitpoint left, allowing you to win the fight. Those kind of situations probably will not exist in this game... simply because missing attacks, even ranged attacks, will not occur (afaik). Again what exactly is "reminiscent" of IE-games? Prerendered overhead graphics? Being able to control a party with classes? That's it? Nothing about AD&D at all? As for the UI, I loved the IE UI systems, how they were molded into the game's lore and looked great. Even worse seeing so many people on this very board wanting minimalist UI's which are more reminiscent of modern action-orientated games." Indira Lightfoot: "I was there through most of the KS campaign, and it was great fun! However, I don't recall any "We are making a new entry in the glorious IE series"-promises on Obsidian's behalf. Still, this is perhaps my bad, because you are certainly not alone on these forums thinking the way you do on this issue. For some reason, there are a great number of people disappointed already and the reasons are precisely as you have described them. I fear that those quotes were not fine-print. It's the very description of the KS - the portal paragraphs. As for that goblin getting a lucky hit, or that enemy rolling a miss when you pc is on death's door, well, I agree with you there. I even had a little debate going on this forum with Josh about misses and the lack of them. I argued just like you - that it's fun in a RPG sense to have it. And a few days passed, IIRC, and Josh had reworked the system, so there will indeed be a few misses, but not nearly as frequent as in IE games. Believe me, Obsidian do listen at times, and they do read these forums, so please contribute by whatever means possible here. Still, I also respect Obsidian for sticking to their guns and doing their thing when they are happy with a design, and not always listening to fans can be a wise strategy as far as making CRPGs is concerned." Chrononaut: "Again I think it's a matter of the type of cRPG players they appealed to, who are very much against any new types of mechanics perceived to be inspired to "new" genres. They ran a KS campaign based very much on pure nostalgia, but when it was over didn't take long to start moving away from that, which I find dishonest. For example Bard's Tale (1985) itself was not an AD&D game, but it's ruleset was designed to emulate D&D-like mechanics so that the players would feel familiar with the gameplay from the tabletop game. I don't see how it's an unreasonable request for the gameplay of PE to be reminiscent of D&D IE-games. I don't really care about graphics even if they do look like those games it's still a cosmetic part, I'm just concerned that this PE will end up unrecognizable as the IE games we know and love. Everything I read about the game's mechanics is very disillusioning." Indira Lightfoot: To be sure, nostalgia played a big part in people pledging, but to say that they were dishonest seems harsh. Also, all of us that have followed OEI over the years know that they have been longing to make a new CRPG of their own accord for years. Getting a new IP was something often reiterated during the KS campaign.

Right, this is a bit off-topic. Perhaps a mod (Gifted, I saw you! ) can move the relevant posts and make a new topic under General Discussions called "Are we getting the PE we were led to believe during KS"? I think that would be an appreciated topic. To be sure, nostalgia played a big part in people pledging, but to say that they were dishonest seems harsh. Also, all of us that have followed OEI over the years know that they have been longing to make a new CRPG of their own accord for years. Getting a new IP was something often reiterated during the KS campaign.

I was there through most of the KS campaign, and it was great fun! However, I don't recall any "We are making a new entry in the glorious IE series"-promises on Obsidian's behalf. Still, this is perhaps my bad, because you are certainly not alone on these forums thinking the way you do on this issue. For some reason, there are a great number of people disappointed already and the reasons are precisely as you have described them. I fear that those quotes were not fine-print. It's the very description of the KS - the portal paragraphs. As for that goblin getting a lucky hit, or that enemy rolling a miss when you pc is on death's door, well, I agree with you there. I even had a little debate going on this forum with Josh about misses and the lack of them. I argued just like you - that it's fun in a RPG sense to have it. And a few days passed, IIRC, and Josh had reworked the system, so there will indeed be a few misses, but not nearly as frequent as in IE games. Believe me, Obsidian do listen at times, and they do read these forums, so please contribute by whatever means possible here. Still, I also respect Obsidian for sticking to their guns and doing their thing when they are happy with a design, and not always listening to fans can be a wise strategy as far as making CRPGs is concerned.

You would be hard-pressed to find a bigger D&D fan than me, and needless to say, I loved the IE games back in the day. However, I'm also mature enough to admit that playing them now, as I have done for the past six months, is a different experience. Games and game design have evolved. The UI is severely lacking, the pacing is pretty bad and many encounters turn out to be ill-conceived slugfests. Having said that, I still enjoy them immensely. Why? Because the character generation systems and the fantasy stories are so bloody good (for the most part). I'm sorry if you are truly disappointed in this regard (hopefully, you aren't just trolling us), but let's backtrack and quote some stuff from Obsidian's KS, straight off the pages there: "Project Eternity is an isometric, party-based computer RPG set in a new fantasy world developed by Obsidian Entertainment." "Project Eternity (working title) pays homage to the great Infinity Engine games of years past: Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment. Project Eternity aims to recapture the magic, imagination, depth, and nostalgia of classic RPG's that we enjoyed making - and playing." Alright, so they are making a new fantasy world that pays homage to the great IE games of the past, but nowhere does it say, they'll reuse the mechanics of those games, and especially not down to every little detail. "Combat uses a tactical real-time with pause system - positioning your party and coordinating attacks and abilities is one of the keys to success." Funny that you mention RTS. I'm playing COH2 right now, I am loving it (while being new to the genre), and this above quote tells me that they are actually going to make combat less swish-swoosh, and more about positions, coordination and timing - well, let's call this tactics and strategy - and I am all for this kind of change. It sounds fresh and exciting, to say the least. Obsidian also seems to share my excitement in this: "We are excited at this chance to create something new, yet reminiscent of those great games and we want you to be a part of it as well." It will be different, no doubt, but it will hopefully be darn good too.

I just finished this mission, and so far it's best one among a number of great ones. The nice city of Lublin map was very entertaining too. For some reason my two heavy tanks that you got towards the end of the mission had trouble aiming at a twenty feet high gate. But the Ania mission was so much fun. At the beginning of it, I screwed up, and her sniper friends died. So, she took out all the Nazi commanders by herself and began the interrogation, and that's when my mission bugged out. The idea was to protect her while she was interrogating the informant inside the building. But I had some brain freeze going on, so I didn't see you could spawn in new snipers to help her. And when the Germans finally killed the informant inside, to Ania's dismay, I tried to load a save I did just before she started the interrogation. It worked initially, but then when I saved again, as soon as she had stepped outside with the informant, I got a bug splat and even worse, COH2, forced me to do a five-minute update in order to restart the game. Either that, or the game was updated at the very moment I saved. Anyhow, I tried to load the last save, but it turned out it was corrupt, so COH2 gave me a bug splat report window and a forced update AGAIN! Alright. I tried to pick an earlier save, and that worked, but then, like ten minutes later, I did a new save and the game crashed to desktop in a fraction of a second, no sound. Just "blink". Now, I was getting more scared than Ania. Would all my saves be corrupt? Was my beloved COH2 ruined? Happily enough, I managed to load an even earlier save, and then I played the rest of the mission without saving once, and Ania managed to escape. Phew! Hopefully, this bugginess was just for Mission 11, since I haven't had any trouble before with COH2 in that regard.

Alright, BruceVC and others - first impressions of Legends of Dawn after some hour into the game: -The game feels absolutely vast. I'm the nosy kind of player that rummages through everything, and I've barely left the starting village. -It's crammed with crafting components and runes - especially the runes used to unlock "code-locked" chests is a fun feature. -Making your own spells is fab. I made a "toxic missile" early on that damages opponents with disease and drain their damage power, sort of a dirty missile, and I have killed my first spider with it. -The very few fights I've been have been intense and rather close combat. I'm trying to make a bow build, but it seems it's hard to use bows far off. In a way, that's a god thing, coz in Skyrim, you snuck and shot critters from afar. -I like that it's not a stress-fest action RPG like Diablo 3, but more of a nice pastime kind of CRPG. -I stumbled into a meticulously trapped place where I met my untimely demise to a ten ton cleaver. -There are no autosaves, so I lost some twenty minutes because I didn't save. The beginning is so calm, so when you finally find action, it easily overwhelms you. -The music and feel is moody and mellow at the same time. -I'm playing a thief, and although I didn't think I was seen stealing, two merchant town factions hate me already. -There are some decent VO and the tone fits the shady role I'm playing pretty well. -I picked an elf and got to pick from hairstyles from hell. Think Mad Max and elves! -It's a game that so far feels a bit like Divine Divinity, but with a less usable environment, and like Kingdoms of Amalur minus the gargantuan truckload of story that game with that game. But this game seems to be random-seed generated, maps and critters and all, so it's still pretty unique. Graphically, it's no Skyrim, but rather old - it can't even beat NWN2, and that's like six years old now, no? Having said that, I still like what they've done. -And beware, running off a cliff is a bad idea. I fell and died with a scream and a thud. -Already the start I think merits the amount of money they ask for now on Steam. It's 20 % off, so that's like 15 euros.

A Kickstarter I backed earlier this year is out. I'm downloading it on Steam right now! What am I on about? Well, it's Legends of Dawn - an open action CRPG with a creative spellcrafting system and something of a NWN2-look about it.

Interesting, so you can do well even without the shortcuts being second nature to you. I wonder if it is this HelpingHans: "This game has got to be game of the year. Honestly nearly everything about this game makes me want to squeal with delight. The graphics looks incredible especially on those snow maps, the gameplay is just as good as the original with intense battles, mircoing and management. The sound and the atmosphere make you feel like you are there, seriously it is that incredible. There are a ton of new features like cold tech and true sight which add so much more depth and strategy to the game. Take for instance true sight where units vision radius is now blocked by objects such as tall wall as and hedges. This now enables players to set up sick ambushes which can decide the fate of the game, This game does have a few problems with crashing searching for a game and a few balance issues. Furthermore there are some features that are not currently implemented. However all these issues will be resolved with time as with every game on start up has it's issues. You have got to remember that coh2 has had a crazy development cycle having to deal with the demise of THQ and with the limited resources they had. It's unbelievable with what the team at Relic have achieved. On another note Relic knows how to listen to it's community and treat them well. Many of the new features and balance changes have been the result of Relic discussing with the community. I have had the pleasure of touring the relic studios this past weekend and let me tell you when they say they have "stuff in the pipe line after launch" let me tell you they HAVE FRICKEN AMAZING STUFF. This game has got the potential to rival SC2 if it is given the break that it desperately needs. Finally I would just like to say that the community behind this game is like no other. Everyone is there for each other (apart from a few trolls) and willing to help you out if your having trouble or if you would like to engage in some serious strategy.… " He gave the game 10 out of 10 on Metacritic (not that I pay much attention to that, but Steam links to it).

That seems like a weird number for the level cap. Are they planning to raise it in an expansion or something? Yes, and I've already bagged that expansion! One of the screenies, a subterranean intersection, has some weirdly textured floor. It's far too shiny and furrowed, it also lacks that dusty, messed-up feel that other screenshot had. The short fellow looks cool. What can we tell about him?

Thanks for the tip, Monte Carlo! I googled hotkey groups and found a nice bunch of key combinations for COH1, which all work just fine in COH2 as well. Also, I found what I craved for, namely CTRL+number 1-10 on a selected group makes a number shortcut for them. Very handy! Sidenote: Taking the German high points in Schisselburg at the end of in Mission 7 was quite a feat for a beginner. Phew!

Here's my second COH2-noob report: Well, I'm absolutely hooked now! The campaign is exciting and varied, at least for someone who's never played this kind of game before. Mission 4, with a harsh blizzard and a few troops making their way in the dark to blow up enemy tanks has been the highlight so far, along with the hectic Mission 5 - Stalingrad - nicely portrayed city warfare there! The thing that really draws me in is of course multiplayer, and I've started to team up with one other player to do skirmishes against the Ai just to get a feel for what tactics I prefer. Mortars and machine guns in bunkers are an addictive set-up, and I'm still learning the ropes of how to make the most of tanks. It seems I just send them away, as opposed to half-tracks with flamethrowers that I have a blast with. The way I feel right now is I'll be playing this a lot from now on. Each game is very varied and you have to think on the fly so many times and adapt. One gripe I have is that I still can't get the double left click and select several nearby units at the same time to work. Wonder what I'm doing wrong?

Although I don't know you at all, Brandon, I just wanna tell how happy I am that you're back at Obsidian for Project Eternity. After all, you were the pacer guy for the production of perhaps the best D&D CRPG of all time, if we count the expansions too. Churning out MotB that fast on top of the huge OC of NWN2 must have been no mean feat, and it turned out great! Then you went ahead and made an entirely different expansion on so many levels, with jungles, Yuan-Tis and T-Rexes. Just wow! I'm curious, though. Will the game be produced modularly, i.e., will it be produced as separate modules in the same vein as NWN2?

Level design should accommodate complex quests with various approaches and resolutions, but I reckon a few them still can have a linear layout. As Nonek's lovely post illustrates - it's what's in the dungeon that counts - the atmosphere, the story, the depth, the variety, the sociocultural context. A level that's cleverly designed should make any backtracking part of the adventure. Although it was nice in Skyrim to always have a backdoor at the end, I soon felt cheap and sordid doing so - I might as well have had a teleportation orb and leave immediately (almost like the map worked). I know, it sounds old school, but I think I like a lot of trekking and backtracking - but under one very important condition - that such movement entails new encounters, the branching off of unexpected adventures and quests, and that those makes sense in the fantasy setting created. So not just a few monster spawned in, but something that is of the same quality as I went out adventuring, as I went in those dungeons.

This animat concept really tickles my fancy! It also makes me wish for "hippanimats" and "skielanimats", basically the same concept of an excellent warrior soul-grafted onto armour, but in this case armoured war horses and war dogs.

Thanks for the tips, Calax and Monte Carlo! Well, here's a brief report of me, a total noob, playing COH2 beta multiplayer (as the campaign is only part 7 atm). The first few hours were mayhem, and half the controls I didn't even know, not even the chat key! A few told me outright that I sucked big time, and I merrily agreed. The turning point was a kind player who took the time explaining some of the micromanagement for me. For instance, I didn't even know you have to update your HQ for me first seven games, haha! A turning point was a game of 3 on 3 where I had rigged three mortars on a strategic hill. And when those red army tanks rolled in, I slowly turned them into scrap metal, including all the infantry. One mortar soon rose to veterancy 3, and then the real fun began. The number of kills were dozens and dozens. It was a very close game, where we finally won after 50 minutes. I had no idea it was this intense and fun. I have really missed out on something. In a day or two, I get to try the campaign, but I got the feeling I will play multiplayer for the most part, because of that brutal intensity.

I just caved in and bought COH2 on Greenman Gaming with a 25 % voucher on top. Monte Carlo's overwhelming enthusiasm rubbed off on me in the end. Funny thing is, I have almost never played a RTS strategy game. I almost always pick turnbased ones. Now I get to try it for the first time (and soon I'll have Larian Studios' Dragon Commander too). Beware Heinz Wobbleknees, that would be me in COH2!

zimcub: Agreed. "Shake it off" can refer to even more intimate inter-body contact than that. Also, the recipient doesn't technically shake the condition, it's just a short window of freedom. So why not "Free Spirit" or "Window of Freedom"?

First off, animancers! Yay, I love them already, although I know next to nothing about them. Also, those hairy wild orlans look great! They are neither Chewbacca nor Ewok, I reckon. More like some early renditions of Neanderthal people back at the last turn of the century. As for paladins. It's not my first choice when playing through games (but sometimes they can be great companions). I'd rather go for undead-hunting clerics or their opposites, necromancers. They seem a bit boring and neighbourly this time too. Are there any plans to make them especially fervent when encountering undead abominations? I'd like to have them less scout-leaderish and more zealot-feverish in armour. Also, perhaps they could have some special soul-bond to a particular weapon made in some sacred forge, a living weapon that guides and misguides them.

First off, I'm very happy you're going the route of conlangs in order to achieve cultural variety and distinctiveness. Thank you! As for that second question: It doesn't matter a single bit to me. Morgulon mentioned Tolkien, one of our planet's most popular authors. Interestingly enough, most of his fans wouldn't even know how to pronounce "Tolkien" the right way. Why? Because they may be from other countries and with other languages than in what Tolkien's works were written. Also, they may be English speakers that simply don't know the "correct" pronunciation. I've been watching a series called The Hour recently. The protagonist is called Rowley. The other characters pronounce it differently - there are two versions circulating in the show - and sometimes one and the same characters shift pronunciation. Think of the surname of David Bowie. Does this diminish the work, or my appreciation of all of its details and facets? Not at all. The experience is all in the head of the reader/viewer/player. So, don't sweat it. But please stay consistent on those conlang-cultures when naming things, places, persons, objects, etc.

I'd like to add that I want to see generous and varied random encounters while resting (I have no problem getting a run-in with a monster not previously seen in a rest encounter - the element of surprise is often a good thing), but also the places for rest should vary in their alert factor. At certain areas, it's almost certain there will be an encounter, whereas in others it's a rare thing. Finally, character- and party-based story tidbits should always be a possibility - they could be based on where the party and its members are in various quests.