greylord

From the first 5, only the 4th should pose some real problems. It's the hidden-untl-you-beat-the-5 challenge 6 that really needs skill and preparation. It's because of that, that so little people have platinum. Beating the last boss on God Hard ( and i would be among top 10 ) and Challenge 6. I WILL CONQUER them one day. :/ And don't look at the videos on Youtube, that just makes you feel bad. I'm stuck on 4. Makes me want to curse at the game!!! 6 is harder...hmm...sounds harsh! First Arc the Lad is pretty short overall...and doesn't finish completely. The second continues the story. Just a heads up.

Why is it always XBL, why never PSN! Oh well, only 2 days anyways (I think the demo comes out on the 14th)

I'll agree with you on ME1's soundtrack. That has to be one of the most awesome soundtracks in the past decade for a Video game!

I know some have played Vanquish on these forums. The challenge missions get impossible! Anyone here beat them all? I think they may be too hardcore for me...

Ah come on, give it a rest. No need to clutter the thread up with you two being dramatic. It'll detract from the vicious persecution we always lay upon Bioware. Actually I think he was admitting he was more interested in a pissing contest than a discussion, which is why he is still at it, then asking if Nepenthe was interested in joining him. In the REAL reason for the thread...the Demo is on the 14th? Also, this has me a little wary... http://mashable.com/2012/02/09/mass-effect-3-infilitrator/ ME 3 on the Ipad? also, I hadn't seen this trailer but it's now on USA...I thought it was interesting with the Female version of Shep. that's good cause my PC playthroughs have used the female version (PS3 has the male). http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2012/02/trailer-park-mass-effect-3/1 Probably all old news to you guys...but nonetheless...back on topic.

Less then a chance of Shepard dying in ME2 (which there was a chance, but since it's LESS than that)... Err...No? The won't have a chance?

"Attempt?" Wat. Mmh, now we're at the anti-ME2 argument 3b, also known as pedestalising ME1 and ignoring all that was wrong with it. Kind of like what was done with DAO and DA2, 'cept DA2 made it easier for you guys. I had a longer post where I showed I loved ME1, but it's plot was actually more deriviative and unoriginal than ME2...hence it sort of cracks me up when people praise it but put down ME2's...(Reapers...what Reapers...I have 300 more planets to land on and explore, reapers will wait till I get there, they always do!). Basically you said it all better though.

Answered that previously... Should i repeat? Edit: Actually, I'll spell it out. It's due to the Hollywood Hero syndrome. This is different then a plot hole, it's to prove how bad arse a hero someone in the story is. For example, in the first ME, no matter how long you dilly dally, no matter how long you postpone going someplace, you always seem to be in time to suceed in your mission to key areas. Liara seem to be able to wait 100 years at the rate you go if you desire and you can still rescue her just in time as the Geth start to close in. You can still save the colony. Is this a plothole? No...it's intended. It's shows that yes you are cutting it close (no matter how close it really should be, similar to the rubberband effect in race games...no matter how far ahead you get, they'll always rebound to be right on your tail...and vice versa), whilst in truth because of gameplay concerns that it would really stink to have you fail right at that point, it's impossible to fail. So they write in that you could have failed, you are supposed to have that feeling that you almost did...but because you are such an awesome character you suceeded JUST IN TIME! The Normandy almost took out a Reaper which ravaged an entire fleet. It shot the Reaper right through and just about brought it down! So why is it so easy to be destroyed when it's established just how badass Joker is in the first ME? To show just how bad ass the Collectors are. No, they aren't a Reaper, they can't take on a colony with a full defense spectrum up (which has several times the firepower of a Cruiser or Battleship), but against an unarmed one...they sure can take it out without anyone knowing the better. They can take out the best pilot and best ship in the fleet even!!! (Which the Normandy basically became in ME1 since it seemingly was the only ship that could evade a Reaper's blast at close range and then blast the Reaper in return). So we already know the Collectors are somewhat powerful...we expect that. The Normandy when it goes through is purposefully scripted to barely make it past the Collector ship that just came out (and probably didn't expect to see the Normandy there in the first place, remember, you are notified that those inside never expected anyone to make it through the relay, and they really don't have any outward sensors to detect that you even crashed into them) and no matter how well you've prepared, upgraded, or anything else...you'll crash onto the Collector base. It's for the same reason...to show you just how close that really was! Whew...you just made it. They don't want to kill you outright there...that would be gripe city. So many players would start calling it the worst game ever if that was possible and stop playing in disgust. Instead they give you that illusion. You already know how tough these Collector ships are...so of course you just barely made it. If you've only played once...even if you upgraded...you will hopefully think you just barely made it...even if you did all the upgrades...because that's just how tough it was... Or that's how they want you to feel. It's scripted because that's how it has to be for the game to work out without smashing you to smithereens. Other examples for you to relate would be...the last star trek movie. You have this gigantic ship that tears apart a Federation ship. Later it totals a Klingon Fleet, and if that wasn't enough goes on and destroys the entire Federation Fleet!!! It does this in less time than it takes for the pilot to realize that his warp was still set in "park". This establishes how bad arse this Rogue Romulan ship is. So how is it that the Enterprise even lasts a few minutes without going into complete oblivion!? To show how bad arse Captain Kirk is. He's awesome enough to survive this ship that blows up entire fleets without even getting crippled. He then proceeds to destroy said ship. Another example. In Empire Strikes Back the Imperial Fleet defeats and entire Rebel base. That fleet, the entire fleet, then goes and chases one ship. We already know how bad arse the Empire and this particular fleet is. How is it that one ship can evade it? To show just how bad arse a pilot Han Solo is. He's awesome enough to outfly every pilot, outwit every Imperial commander, and out do this entire fleet which just defeated the entirety of his friends Rebel forces in a base. Same goes for the end of ME2...but more with a Solo end (Solo evades the fleet, but eventually things catch up with him). Joker is shown to actually be one darn badarse pilot, and Shep is considered one bad arse Commander...but not quite so awesome as to not crash into the Collector base...but then that had to happen anyways to add to the dramatic end of the entire game and to add that...Whew...we barely made it here, we could die at anytime to the entire episode (which dying is actually a pretty hard preposition to tell the truth...in that I mean getting to the Shep is Dead ending where he is undeniably dead and everything fails). As for the Collector Threat...who thinks they are a threat? TIM doesn't. In fact, the only that really takes them as a threat (correctly I might add, because Shep is just that awesome...or you're supposed to think that...because hey...he's you and of course, YOU'RE AWESOME!!!) is Shepard. Jacob probably also considers them a threat...but not for the right reasons. Miranda possibly. Kelly and the rest of the crew might. But not TIM. His goal isn't to stop the Collectors. He tells Shep what he needs Shep to know to get Shep to take down the Collector base...INTACT. TIM doesn't want it blasted to shreds in a fleet battle, and he probably realizes he doesn't have enough forces to take it by force personally without probably destroying much of what he wants.. His best hope is to get an elite team in there to plant a bomb and eradicate the inhabitants so he...TIM, can then get the technology inside. That's his goal. It's always been his goal. If you are Shep and you trust TIM and Cerebus...then you'll be fooled into thinking exactly what TIM wants you to think...and when you hand the base over to him even your companions are going to start questioning your actions. Shep has one impossible mission, get an enemy base completely intact....no real battle damage, no real destruction...no pitched battles, no massive loss of resources (outside of Shep and the Normandy 2) to do so. That's what TIM is after...and hence to send in the battleforces in a pitched battle probably would damage or even destroy the thing he wants most. The problem is I expect he'll go there and either fulfill whatever he wants to fulfill...OR Be mind twisted to worship the Reapers...OR If you realized he was merely feeding you misinformation (without realizing that they were a REAL threat, especially the Reaper they were making...Thanks Shep for stopping that one...you awesome hero, you!) to basically get you to do what he wanted...and blew up the very thing he was after... I expect he has a grudge to settle with you next time he sees you...and quite possibly may want to kill you...if it doesn't interfere with his plans too much (afterall, he does have places to go and things to do). That's what TIM was after the entire game...hopefully I didn't just ruin the game for someone who hasn't finished it yet..but then I gather many people didn't catch onto that little item anyways.

Okay, now I have to play NWN2 again. I actually don't think I've messed with the difficulty, I'll have to figure out how to do that. Playing a game like your in the middle of Woodstock completely drugged up actually sounds pretty dang fun...messed up but fun. Maybe that's wrong of me to think that seems intriguing?

What! My Hockey 2012 game doesn't have the Big Bad Avalanche as the bad end boss team...and I don't have a romance with that sideline fan!!! Oh the Horrors!!! PS: Just to clarify, no I actually do not play Hockey games in general (though I have played one or two of them...don't hold it against me) and the above statement is not in anyway serious. If you take it as serious you should be clobbered with a rubber Mighty Duck...well...Maybe a Rubber Howard the Duck...

Good for you. If you're not willing to discuss why you find them unconvincing, then you're essentially ruling out any possibility of reasoned discussion. You see, the fact that you disagree with me means nothing. Other people in this thread disagree with me, too. The fundamental difference is that their responses are well-reasoned and geared towards promoting a discussion. You, on the other hand, seem interested in little more than the ideological equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and shouting "you're wrong!" No, it just seems you didn't pay heed to what I posted before. In fact some of it you actually blatantly ignored. Put a frigate today against a cruiser of WWI...I'd might actually wager the Frigate may win...however...that aside, even with that, you completely missed the point. Further, just with the frigate/cruiser problem, even if you ignored the real reason and point of it...you never answered why a frigate that survived a reaper and even took down a reaper should be shot down by a Collector cruiser which according to you is far weaker than the aforementioned Reaper...nor did you answer why something two times as big, powerful, and sleek than something that withstood a reaper and took it down later would have a problem with your Collector theory if the collector is indeed much weaker than that aforementioned Reaper. Beyond ignoring this little point, you make it more blatant that it's more you complaining about things you don't like when you ignore the other side of the equation. If you have problems with an unupgraded Normandy surviving and crashing...why DON'T YOU have a problem with a fully upgraded Normandy with the latest tech (enough to cut through the Collector ship as easily as it cut through the original Normandy even) also crashing and having problems. It's a two sided coin of which you only point out one side. It implies that you aren't actually trying to find plotholes, but more that you are concerned with things you didn't like and would have written differently if you were in charge...and which doubtless would have some other youngster who didn't like your version go ranting on a forum about how it's a complete loophole. I explained (in one post though, so not multiple...I don't plan on going round and round in circles like you have, I assume you can read, though you might wonder since I just reposted some unanswered points that you ignored) already the real reason why the Normandy is not destroyed and also has problems and crashes into the Collector base. I could go on, with various reasons why you haven't convinced me. However it's irrelavant if you actually have so many "plotholes" as you infer. Your list isn't that long, and if you had so many, than you could go listing them on and on and on. I might be a fanboi as some may put it, but I'm not oblivious. As far as a game goes, I'd rather have a fun enjoyable one with a fast moving story and defined goals (even if minor steps with each character recruitment and then loyalty missions) then a meandering mess that really doesn't go anywhere, plotholes and all. I won't deny plotholes, but I want you to at least be honest whether you actually have plotholes (which for what it appears you do not) or you simply didn't like how the game was written. It doesn't bother me if you didn't like how it was written. That's an opinion, and that's pretty solid. I'm don't even think that opinion can be changed at this point. It' sjust as solid as me loving ME2. If you simply dislike how it's written, then that's actually a far stronger argument than what you've posted thus far. If you are going to blame some of it on plotholes and multitudes of them, than at least be honest about them and start listing. I have what I would call, questionable items that lie unanswered...which some may call plotholes...and even I could list more than you have...and probably more clear cut as to what many would call plotholes (in the like of what my example would be above...not that...but in a similar vein). I'm not disagreeing about plotholes in ME2 (that's the THIRD TIME I've said that thus far...but you don't seem to actually read what I post so not certain if it will catch this time), I'm saying your attempt to convince me that what you listed as plotholes are actually plotholes doesn't ring true...AND that your real gripe is simply...as I just stated...that you don't like how it's written and would have preferred events to occur differently. Hopefully you can back up your original claim, hence start listing all your plotholes...otherwise you sound more like a disgruntled player of ME2 who is playing armchair general of what they'd have done different. No problem with that, but at least be honest with yourself and us. PS: One last thing, I actually read this thread more for news on ME3...love to hear more about it rather then some person's gripes about ME2. It's actually far easier to browse these forums for information than Bio's...theirs moves rather quickly, and this place seems to get the news all consolidated in a more accessible nature (one thread) that seems to be more comprehensive with it's total web coverage (find things here that I occasionally don't at Bio's).

There, paraphrased that for you. Why, exactly, are you still posting? Why don't you say what you said you would? You were the one who brought up plot holes. You didn't convince me of any from your viewpoint. All you brought up were things you either didn't like or would have done differently, and then you explained how. I simply wasn't convinced. I'm awaiting your LOOONG list of supposed plotholes that you vaunted...or was that small bunch of dislikes everything you had? I don't need to convince you of anything...that was never my purpose nor my reason. I pointed out why I didn't believe you. You still haven't stated why I should believe you. Why don't you actualy post what you stated you had...because if that's all the problems with plotholes that you had with ME2, your list is actually shorter then a majority of those that I've seen! Hence, I'm REALLY not convinced in that case of anything with your supposed plothole problems you brought up. I'm posting because I'm actually hoping you may have told the truth...rather than shooting out stuff because you do dislike bio and ME and are simply spouting that opinion rather than anything cohesive.

I'm behind so just starting Vanquish finally, we'll see how it is. Hopefully a LOT LESS depressing than Nier (decided the reason Nier was like it was is that you are actually the bad guys in it rather then the good guys).

Again, you're missing the point. The collectors, as they were presented, were incapable of attacking anything more than defenseless fringe colonies in the Terminus systems, because their entire fleet consisted of one fairly weak cruiser (rationalize away, but nothing changes the fact that your frigate, unupgraded, is able to destroy it in the final battle) and a collection of floating eyeballs. They were even driven off by a few defense cannons on Horizon. How, pray tell, would the Collectors even come close to accomplishing their goal of finishing the human reaper without the capability to penetrate alliance space? Right now you're just showing your own ignorance of Mass Effect lore. The Normandy version II is still a *frigate.* From the Codex: Frigates are light escort and scouting vessels. They often have extensive GARDIAN systems to provide anti-fighter screening for capital ships, and carry a squad of marines for security and groundside duty. Unlike larger vessels, frigates are able to land on planets. The most important role filled by frigates is reconnaissance. Sensors, unlike ships and communications employing the mass effect, are limited to the speed of light, therefore a stationary observer can detect a vessel a light year away only when its light year arrives a year later. Because faster than-light attackers always arrive before defenders can detect them with luminal sensors, attackers can always surprise defenders. For defense, fleets surround themselves with spheres of scouting frigates scanning for enemy ships and transmitting warnings to the main body. Frigates achieve high FTL cruise speeds because of their high-performance drives. They also have proportionally larger thrusters and lighter design mass, allowing them greater maneuverability. In combat, speed and maneuverability make frigates immune to long-range fire of larger vessels. In fleet combat, frigates are organized into "wolf pack" flotillas of four to six. Wolf packs speed through enemy formations, hunting enemy vessels whose kinetic barriers have been taken down by fighter-launched disruptor torpedoes. The wolf pack circle-strafes vulnerable targets, using their superior speed and maneuverability to evade return fire. Now, your frigate is not particularly special, as far as combat goes. The Normandy SR-2, unupgraded, is spec'd to the original Normandy (which, if you'll recall, is built for stealth and minor skirmishes, not for pitched combat), minus the size changes and a few other misc. upgrades (leather seats? haha) - you'd know this, too, if you paid attention to the dialog in-game. Now, explain to me, if such a vessel is able to destroy what is revealed to be the only collector cruiser, how exactly were the collectors much of a threat at all? Perhaps the reason the Alliance wasn't doing anything about the abducted colonies was because the collectors were a chicken**** excuse for an enemy - Zoraptor's theory is certainly more reasonable here than just accepting that somehow the Normandy is a super-ship and Joker is a super-pilot and somehow Shepard & Co. were able to do with one reconaissance frigate what the alliance wouldn't have been able to do with, you know, an actual fleet? What the **** are you even saying here? None of that is relevant. You can defeat the collector ship with the unupgraded Normandy. The Normandy is a single frigate. The systems alliance has a very large fleet. What threat did the collectors legitimately pose to human space? The irony here is that I haven't accused anyone of anything - I voiced my opinion on the game, and you jumped down my throat at a perceived attack on your love of the game. If your best argument is really nothing more than "well, you couldn't write better!" then you shouldn't bother replying in the first place. Christ, from the animosity you're showing you'd think I insulted your mother or something, not simply disagreed with you about the writing in a video game. Grow up. Well, this is rich - the guy spouting the ad-hominem has the balls to also demand "less whine and opinion and more objectivity." Go figure. So anything short of an outright break in the narrative's continuity is not really a plot hole? Glad to see you have such high standards. Long post in which you really don't do anything. You brought up some made up concerns to begin with...so having someone contest them seems to make you more unhappy. I'm not trying to convince you, I'm seeing if you have ANYTHING that convinces me of something, and thus far, you haven't. You're goal was always to backup your statements that there were plotholes...plotholes that you haven't convinced me of at all. Most of your "plotholes" are more along the lines of...I didn't like this and so this is what is wrong...at least thus far with what you've provided. Perhaps if you look for actual PLOTHOLES instead of things that you simply didn't care for, you may be more successful. As I stated before, I already realize that 99% of games out there have plotholes, that includes ME2. The problem is you haven't hit a single REAL plothole that is actually present (and they are there, and much more obvious) in the game, your list is more of a collection of things that you personally either don't like or think should have been done differently. There's a difference between what a plothole is, and what you didn't like and think should be done differently. That's why when discussing things that you simply didn't care for...if you think that strongly on them...you should go write your own stuff. How about finding one actual...REAL plothole. I gave you an example of what one could be, and that actually is a rather strong indication of what one of the plotholes in the game could be... Convince me of your problems with the actual plotholes instead of your dislikes and I'll probably be much more amenable...but I see it over and over where people try to attack a game or something based on their dislikes of something rather than real problems with the game (dislikes would be...I hated the graphics. Problems would be...the game uninstall program uninstalled my OS as well). I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I'm simply telling you why you haven't convinced me. You're the one that has the onus and put down the items originally...I wasn't convinced. I still am not. I'd say probably try a different plot hole since you don't seem to be going anywhere on the ones you listed and in fact are going in circles on your dislikes instead of anything convincing me of plotholes. If you don't want to actually look at why you haven't convinced me and go a different route, go ahead and keep on not convincing...otherwise I've already told you why I'm not convinced...you don't need to go over the same things again.

The collectors were taking away Human colonists to who knows where in large numbers. No one could get to them. They'd zoom in and out before anyone could touch them. TIM was willing to do something about it, and he raised Shepard in order to do this. Shepard did it because he saw that there was a threat...and TIM was willing to give him the materials to deal with it. No one else was. That's not a plot hole, that you see one there is your own head trying to be an anti-bio-fanboy...more than I'm a Bioware fanboy. Next, Shep is given a NEW ship, bigger, stronger and better than the one that the Collectors blew up. It is outfitted with the LATEST technology with weapons, stealth, and everything else. It's like comparing a frigate from WWI with a Cruiser of the Modern era...which do you think is better? Do you really think a cruiser of our era couldn't take on a Dreadnought of WWI? Or even stand a chance? What you've missed is the reasons and motivations behind it all...which is guesswork, but probably not too much off... Overall, I don't really care what you want in your ME games...as I think your ideas of what ME is and what ME is to the rest of us is so far separate as to be different games. So far all I've really heard is "I don't like Bioware or the ME series and so I want to try to find anything that I can possibly hope to imagine and then blow my imagination up and pretend that it's real so I can make my imaginary plot holes real plotholes!" Your imagination is vivid...but not convincing me at all. Maybe if you had less whine and opinion and more objectivity...I might have more inclination to actually see a plothole, but thus far you haven't really pointed out anything that is actually seriously a plot hole. Little problems with the setting would be things like...we went into the vacuum of space and I had a full suit on as well as my other team mate...but Jack...she just had her coveralls and a mask over her face...perhaps something should have happened to her eyes and other things. Plotholes would be a little bigger such as...I shot Wrex and killed him dead in ME1...so why is Wrex sitting around alive in ME2...did he get ressurected by TIM too? (Note: I actually haven't run into this bug...but just saying...if Wrex was alive in ME2 after I shot him in ME1...I could see that as a possible plothole). PS: As far as the Normandy goes, it's a bigger problem that the original was shot down in the first place than the second one surviving. Think about it...ME1...the original Normandy SURVIVES A REAPER (far worse then a collector ship), and not only survives, but if the right actions are taken is INSTRUMENTAL IN TAKING DOWN A REAPER! Think about that...a smaller, less armed ship survives and takes on a reaper...and you have a problem with a bigger, better, stronger ship surviving something far weaker than a Reaper... I'm not seeing a plothole with the game so much as a hole of black vacuumous space where the thought goes in that there's any sort of plothole in that the second Normandy could stand at least a small chance of surviving.

You win the fight even without upgrades. The SR2 is twice as big, sure, but it's still a reconaissance vessel. It's still a frigate. One designed for stealth, at that - not even the "wolfpack" type designed for offense. If greylord would stop the preteen antics and read the in-game codex, he might have learned that (and in addition learned that the upgraded firepower is only equivalent to a cruiser-class gun, and that the upgraded armor is pretty standard for any larger battleship - not that this matters, as previously mentioned you win the fight even without any of the upgrades). Now, if the collectors only possess one cruiser that can't win a pitched fight against a frigate, how could they possibly hope to succeed anywhere other than undefended fringe colonies? How is it that your primary foe being a complete and utter non-threat and your primary approach to how you're going to deal with this foe being completely moronic are not "genuine plotholes?" I mean, if you want to argue that the plot is fine and the ME universe is just populated by retards, go right ahead. But somehow, I don't think that was BioWare's intent. So a cruiser class and battle ship class is not battle ready...and you have the best pilot in the galaxy...sure...dream on.... Plus, even with that you still have to fight them off in your hull because they're trying to board you instead of out and out destroy you apparantly in your approach...and you STILL crash land... I think you'd side with the council in ME1 and ME2...afterall you probably didn't consider Sovereign a threat until it attacked the council, and probably would have let the reaper be created so it could come in and wreak havoc as well... I don't think your problem is with plot holes, but the entire ME series and Bioware...in which case instead of accusing everyone else of ignoring plot holes...maybe you should just go design your own solid plot that we can laugh at and point out all it's plotholes instead?

I mean, stuff like that doesn't bother me so much. Sure, it makes no sense, but it's not as overtly immersion-breaking as the big baddies who everyone is afraid of planning to abduct everyone on earth with a single cruiser that can be destroyed by a frigate that isn't even designed for combat. I mean, everyone already knew you were working for Cerberus (by virtue of that, in the future, information travels instantly to everyone), so while advertising that fact on your ship isn't wise, it's not going to really change all that much. The main problem is that you're working for cerberus in the first please. [sarcasm] Of course it isn't designed for combat, you've only reinforced it with combat armor which is better and more effective then any ship out there, equipped it with guns that are bigger and better then anything out there...that you have one of the best pilots and the ONLY pilot to ever blow away a reaper...no way it could actually ever go into combat.... [/sarcasm] You see, the fact that you don't even pay attention to what happens in the game sort of blows the entire plot hole idea that you support to smithereens. [PS: If you hadn't guessed, yes I'm a rabid ME fanboi...as they would call it. However, give me an actual plot hole that isn't simply someone whining because they didn't get to save their favorite character or some other ridiculous reason...and I might actually see your point. ME and ME2 have plot holes...so do 99% of the video game plots out there...but you at least have to GIVE one out that may be valid rather than absurd to have me NOT laugh at the supposed "plot holes" that are put out].

Overthinking things? If this is past the depth of thought that should go into writing an RPG plot, then why bother hiring writers at all? If the Big Bad of your game have a plan which, after a cursory glance, obviously cannot work, then your game has a big problem. They could at the very least lampshade the problems if they're too incompetent to write something that doesn't have them. This is a game which advertises itself based on the strength of its narrative. It's pretty shameful that the narrative doesn't stand up to even slight scrutiny. I find it very hard to stay immersed in a game in which pretty much every aspect of the plot invokes Contrived Plot-Mandated Coincidences to not fall apart. TIM explicitly states that he has done nothing other than bring Shepard back exactly as he was. No loyalty programming, no failsafe, nothing. There is no physical limitation stopping you from saying "**** you, I'm leaving," and, in fact, given how awful Cerberus is (especially in the first game, what with setting Thresher Maws on alliance troops and turning colonists into husks), there's no compelling reason why you shouldn't. You missed the point. If you are given a suicide mission in which you will you be traveling into unknown space to fight a foe you know nothing about, the way you prepare for that is not to gather a bunch of crew members and sort out their personal issues. That is completely absurd. The number of situations in which such a crew would be actually useful is pretty slim, and as by your own admission TIM (and thus Shepard) knew nothing about what was waiting for them, why the hell would you spend the entire game in preparations that have almost no chance of being remotely useful? What good would all those crew members have been if Shepard had gone through the relay and been met with a collector fleet instead of a collector ship? Or if the collectors weren't so conveniently holed up in a base with a vulnerability for each specific crew member? Or if you hadn't so conveniently crash-landed on the base in position to infiltrate it in the way you did? Just about none at all. Hell, you didn't even know there would be a base there (of that sort, at any rate) at all! I could buy this if it were done in any half-sane way. My problem here is not with the concept, it's with the implementation. Sure, loyalty and focus are important for a team to get a mission done, but if you're going to go that route how about having the manner in which the loyalty mechanic works make at least a modicum of goddamn sense? There is no logical connection between the loyalty of a crew member and whether or not rocks will fall on him. There is no logical connection between the loyalty of your fire-team leader and whether or not the door jams and forces your tech expert to get out and push (thus taking a rocket to the face). The way in which your teammates fail if they're unloyal simply makes no sense, at all. It's piss-poor implementation, and that's why it feels like a last-minute clooge rather than a well thought-out plot element.. Send a probe, send a strike team that doesn't involve the guy who is so important that you needed to bring him back from the dead, to something rather than blindly rushing in with faith that it'll all work out in the end. These are the rudiments of strategy here, it'd be nice if the characters in the Mass Effect universe didn't all appear to be gigantic ****ing morons. The very reason the council will not listen to Shepard is because they do not believe the reapers exist. Shepard could fix this, easily, if he were to show them the giant reaper corpse floating in explored space. Furthermore, Shepard would not even be in this position (where neither the Systems Alliance nor the Council will help him) if he weren't working for the gigantic **** running a terrorist organization whom he has no legitimate reason to trust. And what of TIM, while we're at that? Why would he not show the reaper to the council if he were truly worried about saving the galaxy? And if he's not, where is Shepard in all this, to call him out on that? Shouldn't it become bleedingly obvious at that point that either TIM shows the reaper corpse to the council and wins over the support of everyone, or he's secretly working towards some other goal and Shepard should have no business working with him? The characters are so ****ing blind in this situation that it hurts. They had a grand total of one cruiser (it is identified as the same ship every time you see it) and one pack of floating eyeballs. That's it. Joker is a good pilot, sure, but do you really think that, given even the unupgraded Normandy SR-2 can take out the Collectors' cruiser, it would have any chance against an actual fleet, or even just against a reasonably built combat ship? The Normandy is a recon vessel, not a battleship. The Collectors had no chance at all of penetrating into even moderately-defended space with that paltry outfit - they'd probably have trouble dealing with the routine patrolls. Furthermore, they could not complete their reaper without attacking earth (this is outright stated when you board the ship), or at least going for some core worlds. This is an impossibility. The collectors are a nonissue. And you've completely ignored the fact that even if they defied all logic and somehow managed to abduct earth and finish their human reaper, it really wouldn't be much good in bringing the rest of the reapers into the galaxy. Besides most of your post is...BLAH...BLAH..BLAH..BLAH...I don't like listening to a dang thing...which explains why the plot doesn't make any sense to you (I suppose most plots don't make sense to you now that you've made that obvious)... Shep saved the entire council and basically the galaxy in the past 3 years. You'd think the least they'd do is pay attention this time...they don't. It wouldn't matter if he brought an entire fleet of these things...they wouldn't listen until they attacked the citadel or some other absurd thing they couldn't ignore. The ONLY person who's giving him help is TIM. Given your penchant to ignore help...and rush off on suicide missions giving up before you've even begun by not even bothering to up your chances by finding effective people...glad shep was the hero and not you...the galaxy would have been doomed the second you went up before the council and they told you not to worry and everything was okay in ME1...the story wouldn't have even started!!!! AKA...not buying your ideas of plot holes...you have MORE HOLES in your "plot holes" then there are plot holes in the entirety of the ME series thus far!!!

Do tell, when in previous threads, before now, have I ever claimed I was too tired to list plot holes? Oh, that's right, you're just strawmanning. Oh well, I'll humor you: 1. Shepard working for TIM: There's simply no way this makes sense, unless all the characters are braindead. Shepard doesn't so much as blink when he's asked to enter the service of a guy who has turned entire human colonies into husks and who was possibly responsible for a very traumatic event in Shepard's past. The main reason other Shepard's previous allies from ME1 refuse to work with him is that he's now working for Cerberus - not once is Shepard given the option to say "**** you, I'm leaving," which is what any sane person would do. Furthermore, even with in the frame of working for Cerberus, you're not even given the option of telling the systems alliance that the Collectors are behind the attacks, thus eliminating Shepard and Cerberus from suspicion and gaining allies. No, you're forced to work with a terrorist organization who clearly have ulterior motives, at the expense of Shepard's credibility, culminating in the absolutely atrociously written encounter with Kaiden/Ashley on Horizon. 2. Spending the entire game recruiting a "team": Why the **** would you do this? This forms the backbone of the plot, but given the premise it's just about the most useless, stupid way you could go about solving your problems. You know that your eventual goal will be going through the Omega 4 relay, but how the hell is a super team of soldiers supposed to help you with that? You know absolutely nothing about the nature of the Collector homeworld or what defenses it has, nor do you take any steps to find out. Through pure serendipity it just so happens that they only have one ship and some floating eyeballs to defend their base, and you crash land in the perfect manner to allow all of your squadmates to take a part in the resulting mission. It's contrived to the point of absurdity. There were so many ways this could be fixed, too - hell, even some simple exposition to tell you that you have *some* information about the Collectors that lets you know an assault team is going to be important in the final confrontation would be a vast improvement. As it is, Shepard should have been scrapping together a ****ing armada, not a group of super-soldiers with personal problems. Which brings me to... 3. The loyalty system: I've already mentioned this, but I'll go over it in full - it's not really a plot hole so much as an example of what, in general, is wrong with the game. Why, pray tell, does whether or not I've sorted out my teammates' personal issues change whether or not they get hit with falling debris in the final battle? I have no problem with the plot of the game taking a back seat to character exposition, so long as it's all tied together in a convincing manner. This is not. This feels like a last-minute write-in when they realized that the plot of the game had nothing to do with the majority of the missions. This doesn't make me feel like I've accomplished anything by ensuring the resolve of my crew. This simply makes me feel as if I've finished the game's arbitrary checklist of Things You Must Do to Not Have a ****ty Ending. 4. The Derelict Reaper: There are more things wrong with this than I care to count, but I'll stick to the obvious ones. Firstly, why the **** would you rush in there, knowing the research team lost contact, without any other attempts at gathering information? Yes, I realize Shepard is supposed to be Mr. Suicide Mission, but this isn't just a suicide mission, it's boneheaded stupidity. Furthermore, a derelict reaper sitting in a known spot seems like a great opportunity to convince the braindead council that you're not talking out of your ass - is there any convincing reason you, rather than telling them about it and using it to gain the support of the greater galactic community, choose to run in there, get the IFF device, destroy the reaper in the process, and then immediately hook it up to your ship? 5. The Collector Plan: Simply, the collectors, despite all the hype and the constant reminders of just how AMAZINGLY DANGEROUS they're supposed to be, are a non-threat. They somehow plan to abduct the entirety of humanity (Shepard himself mentions that they'd have to go to Earth to fill their ship), yet they don't bother to have more than one cruiser? A cruiser which, at that, is ultimately destroyed by a frigate which is designed for stealth rather than combat (the Normandy isn't some sort of super-ship, it's a reconaissance vessel)? Sure, picking undefended fringe colonies might be easy, but there's no way they'd ever succeed in getting much further than that. Of course, this could have been fixed by simply giving them more, and more imposing, ships and weapons, but they were unable to do this because they needed to keep the final battle contrived as **** so that they could weakly justify the fact that you've spent the entire game finding soldiers to fill your ship rather than taking any reasonable course of action. Furthermore, they were building a reaper - fine, so what? What good would a reaper do? Attack the Citadel again, except this time without the benefit of a Geth fleet (well, they could have that single Collector cruiser, that'd sure help!) and hope that they do better than last time? Pretty shoddy plan, there. And even then, it couldn't possibly work - Sovereign's attack relied on Saren being able to use the conduit to gain access to Citadel control - this is why you spend *all* of ME1 searching for the conduit. Without that, a new Human reaper couldn't do anything to open the Citadel relay and bring the rest of the reapers through. The entire thing reeks of half-developed ideas forced together without any real thought as to how to make them work. In actuality, that describes most of the game pretty well. This will be fun... 1. Who just ressurrected Shepard...OH! That's right...TIM. If TIM didn't implant some sort of suggestion into Shepard to aid in the first place, beyond the fact that Shep was dead and owes a tremendous debt, since NO ONE ELSE raised Shep...sure...you got a point. I'd say seeing not only has TIM raised Shep and pointedly stated what his intention was, as well as Shep having the entire idea to save humanity as his background, hence it's at least in Sheps interest to investigate what TIM is stating...it makes sense. Now, if you say ME1 made absolutely NO sense and the plot hole was that Shep shouldn't care at all about the galaxy, humanity, or anything else...then of course this is a plot hole, since Shep could just walk away from everything and anything and not give a dang. He had a bigger chance to do this in the first one since even the council was against him much of the time, much less the rest of the galaxy. Of course then you wouldn't have a game in the first place. 2. The Illusive man didn't know exactly who would be best or could help...he was hoping Shep would be successful. He knew Shep could beat impossible odds and that's what TIM was betting on. He had some ideas of some pretty good recruits for a team, and that's who he suggested, if you wanted to pick them up...but otherwise it was you who was recruiting to go on this suicide mission. Sure, it's a suicide mission but going in alone is more stupid then taking a team. You always get a team, the fact that you can get the team is your choice. You can make it as large as you want...but you didn't have to get all of them if you didn't want. Course, if I were Shep and could have gotten an army, I'd have taken an entire freaking fleet. 3. It's all about how focused and concentrated on the mission you are. If poor old Tali is thinking about what's happened to her father and why she's going to be exiled or punished by the fleet, she sure isn't thinking as strongly on the mission. For example, kill your mother and see if you are able to think as focused or well on work the next day. Of course maybe you are a cold callous person who doesn't care about their mother, in which case I can understand you not being able to comprehend such things...but if you are a normal human being then you probably can understand how some giant family issue can keep you from being as focused on the task at hand then you otherwise would be. What the coincidence is, is that all of your team mates seem to have these family/personal crisis right before your mission. 4. Who else is going to get information? You're on a race to beat others to the info already...what are you going to do...go ahead and ask the Turians to get the information for you. Yeah...that's going to work out great! NOT! He goes in because that's how he's going to get any information anyways...since the only person that really has given him ANYTHING recently actually IS TIM (refer to #1) everyone else either is glad he's dead, ignores that he's alive, or has granted him a license to do something but no other help (such as the council in certain situations...but they still will disavow you if your actions come to light...great help they are!). 5. Apparantly they don't need every human out there...just a lot of them...and seeing that the ONLY response thus far has been TIM and you...I'd say apparantly they're being extremely effective at it. As for your frigate...go in without the upgrades...and you have a really beat up team maybe toast... They already did in your first frigate. Plus you are underestimating Joker's piloting skills...first time he just was unprepared and surprised... And didn't they have more than one ship...at least two? Or something? Even with one though...seems like they had it pretty much under control...seeing as no one is really after them yet anyways....until Shep shows up.

I also haven't heard of it. It can't be that hyped. Critically it's supposed to be one of the best games ever because it's the exemplary art in games idea. If rated by mass populace consumption it doesn't score well...but for the artsy reviewers that go gaga over things like ICO or Shadow of the collosus or Okami and stuff...they seemed to rate this game rather well. What is it? It's the distant sequel to Drakengaard 2 ending E. What happens and how the world ends... In some ways imagine a fantasy version of Fallout...the older fallouts...at least to a degree...except it's MUCH MORE DEPRESSING at the end of the game if you figure out the end of the game. The gameplay though...oh man...the gameplay truly stinks.... By the way...even if you beat it...you haven't. You won't even be able to unlock the real ending until you've at least gotten to the third playthrough...just a heads up if you ever do chose to play this stinker. I think it's time to either try Vanquish, Deus Ex HR, or go finish up all the side quests on my ME2 runthrough.

Went back to playing Nier, reminded why I don't like it. This game was, is, and probably will be even more so, sooooo overhyped it's not even funny. This game seems to suffer from almost every type of gameplay mistake/problem. Shooting on a console with no autolock...or even an aiming reticle (no autolock is doable as long as I KNOW where I'm actually shooting). Action combat without being able to see who is what or where, especially behind you or have any awareness of what's even to your side at times...and camera going wonky on you. Story is fine...but the gameplay blows...hard.

Depending on which playthrough, Ashley was romanced, and died in my ME playthrough, at least the save I'm going to play first. Then again, it's all replicated on the PS3 via the comic...though some of my choices weren't reflected on the PS3. I don't think I've ever beat ME2 in under 20 hours. around 24-25 hours is my quickest play through, but then I spend time to mine planets and upgrade things. My current playthrough had me at 35 hours beating the game with still the firewalker, Shadowbroker, and Overlord portions to play through (already did Arrival during the game itself).

OMG! I saw what she looks like in ME3...can anyone look more horrid!!! (edit: anyone look more horrid whilst at least still looking human) She has to look better in real life, either that or gamers have really low ideals in regards to beauty! Saw the trailer of voice actors, she looks better in real life, not my type, but better. They totally had some screw ups with how they made her look in the game...they made her look monstrous in comparison. I'd be unhappy if I were her.

thanks. Hope it does.

I tried utilizing the search function but couldn't find the specific answer to my question, may be my inexperience with search though. Went to the FO:NV forum, couldn't find the specific, and couldn't start or reply to any topics...so finally decided to ask here. Will the FO:NV PS3 version have EVERYTHING on the disc. AKA...the DLC included in the UE, will it actually be on the disk rather than having some code for which you d/l it. If it's a code to d/l it's probably not worth my while, but if it's on the disc, it's an instant buy in one week...which is why I'm looking to find the answer.