khango

This is great. Just please: create a conversation management system that is more than a simple log with text lines that follow one another. Baldur's gate was in the 90s, now we are in 2013. Here's another example of how a dialogue could be handled (and remember that in my dreams the portraits are animated and/or change facial expression depending on what you say). Not having the text somewhat lined up would drive me insane.

I thought the exact same thing, except for the really strong purple glow which seems a tad too strong and almost out of place.

I think your dialog concept is neat and is worth exploring further and maybe polishing a little - for example, what happens if more than two people are involved in the conversation?. Not sure about the rest. I don't *hate* it, but I'm not in love, either.

I hope you guys are still following the UI thread because somebody only recently posted what I'd consider the best mock of the thread so far: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63851-update-54-art-update-work-is-in-progress/page-21?do=findComment&comment=1337002

Best mock so far. I hope Obsidian looks at his one. I am pretty okay with the portraits as you've done them. Potentially each character could even have slightly different frames to match. The way you've curved them helps blend things and opens up space in the corners for buttons to open rarely used windows. The middle section could easily be flattened if need be and there's clearly additional space to work with if necessary. Very much like it.

I like it. Definitely one of the more polished-looking mocks so far. That said, the button locations will lead to mouse chasing. Move them around a bit to make it more usable and it'll be much improved. If the sidebar extra space bothers, one thing you could do is increase portrait sizes.

That's funny - I also use a 1920x1200 Asus ProArt.

Though if there were a magical metal that could be tempered like steel but which was somewhat lighter, tougher, stronger, and could take a sharp edge or point it would be used widely instead of steel for those who could afford it. It'd allow for thinner, lighter, and possibly longer weapons which in turn would allow for some increased speed and a lighter load. Though it wouldn't be an overwhelming advantage. All that said, has there been anyone actively trying to make old-style weapons with new style tech? Most modern usages fall into either sport or re-enactment which seem to preclude any application of functional advances. Less related, will armor come in layers in PE? It's probably been brought up/mentioned/answered before, but historically I think armor came layered, like jerkin, hauberk, cuirass and so on. Half and 3/4 armor would be nice to see because in the colonial conquest I think there was a transition to lighter/less armor from full plate among the conquering forces as full plate was overkill against the native populations and because of improving technology. Actually, here is an interesting blurb about Conquistador armor: http://www.nps.gov/cabr/historyculture/conquistador-clothing.htm I guess only really well off head honchos had the heavy armor at all.

Deadspace is probably at least partially there to illustrate padding required for different size and aspect ratios of screens most likely. So long as UI covers full horizontal or full vertical there will probably be a need for some sort of padding-filler-moodsetting textured non-interactive bits to take up the gaps.

A) Nice! B) This made me think of an idea. I really like that parchment-like text log area, and I think it would utterly rock if, instead of just looking like a static piece of parchment and having a magical, transparent box that scrolls the text inside, it were actually like a scroll with a vertically-repeating-yet-seamless parchment-surface background texture, and whenever you scrolled, a simple animation actually made the scroll appear to literally scroll (the tops and bottoms would roll in the same direction, as if you were actually reading through a scroll). It's not a big deal, I realize, but the idea 'twas sparked, and I felt the need to pitch it. I had thought of several ideas for parchment - both having a book with turnable pages and the endless scrolling scroll like you mention, as well as an absurd idea where lots of the UI was paperized and you could 'rip' it to make different parts into separate floating elements or change UI element locations. But they would have taken a lot of time and effort to try and mock so I didn't. But I do agree I think there ought to be be a lot of room to 'paperize' the log/journal, so to speak, and with the late-renaissance-age-of-exploration feel that's supposed to be going, there should be some room for paper done with printing presses. Lots of us started on mocks without seeing that update and/or disagree with some of the reasoning. That's all.

Not really. A few asides, first... LoL and Dota are not strategy RPG's. They are Moba games, which is a dumb name for Multiplayer Action Game. They are designed to be fast and brutal, not slow and tactical. Screen space as a result is less important, but their UI's are still crap anyway and anyone who understands design can give you a laundry list as to why. As for complaints about why a 16.3% brick covering the screen is no different than the 5-8% of floating icons in a strategy RPG... well all I gotta say is uh..... if you think it doesn't make a difference I doubt you have ever actually played a strategy RPG. Because you definitely need to see as much of the screen as possible. For the haters who still think you need some retarded brick of graphics to do this UI right here comes Kark mark up 2. So what do we have here? Well the party window is pixel for pixel the EXACT same size as the original mock up. There are 12 buttons, exactly like the original mock up. The useless brick of buttons I personally will never use is still there just flipped on it's side and repositioned to take up less space. It is literally the same exact UI as the mock up, just all the useless nonsense like statue graphics is removed, the chat box is bigger, and the chat box fades out when not in use. That's it, everything else is the same just repositioned. I didn't even change the size of the clock/pause button. Not so bad, though I still feel it makes the characters feel less alive to box them in that way.

One thing I was thinking about since there seems to be so much emphasis on keeping the UI near the mouse is whether the character portrait gallery and log/journal could be anchored and the button elements track the screen edge to remain closer to the mouse. In some respects it sounds like a bad gimmick, and probably is. But maybe there's a less ugly way the UI could be more reactive? Just a thought.

So I made my own mockup in the same vein, with similarly roughed up textures and buttons and such before I saw that you'd posted an almost identical one (or that Sawyer had said something about left vs. right). Mine mostly differs in making the portraits more rectangular and using a parchment texture for the log/journal/dialog thingy: I really don't care that much whether it's right or left side oriented. My main reason for liking portraits on the left is (I suspect) related to the comfort of reading from left to right. That and most OS's and apps and such seem to put their main menus/UIs (like start menu, file menu, apple menu, etc.) on the left for whatever reason. Obviously it were polished the buttons and timer and things would be bigger and better shaped and such.

My mouse can move from the top to the bottom of my 1920x1200 screen with less than 1/2" of motion not even on highest sensitivity. I'm not sure why shaving an 1/8th inch would be worth relegating characters to the world of icons instead of portraits. Using the left-side 'L' layout makes the worst case essentially an equilateral triangle of mouse movement and the best and average cases strongly obtuse or acute triangles - very close to lines in other words. In any case far more compact than the original BG layouts. I will concur that I'm mostly not in love with the mock ups other forum-goers have created.

The reason people are requesting character portraits away from the icons/interface UI are several, but the biggest and most important reason is that the largeness of the character portraits is somehow a key piece of making a 2-D portrait feel like a relateable companion. When portraits are tiny and buried underneath stuff they don't feel like people, they feel like UI. While the sidebar portrait location in the BG games might have been 'bad UI,' it was brilliant in that it felt like those icons "WERE" your characters. Having their own space to live in was key for that, and having the portrait itself respond to things as the character was also part of it. Character portraits definitely belong on the side (my preference is left, but left vs right hardly matters). I think an 'L' - shaped physical UI might work well - the vertical leg for character portraits, the horizontal foot for actions and interactions. The 'foot' part could grow or shrink with whatever palette of commands/menus should be available (depending on character selection). Then the right side of the screen could display the top of a parchment page or scroll for the journal without keeping it bound. The L would also work well in terms of touch UI - it would draw interactive elements to the bottom and sides, rather than the center. If the right-hand parchment page were used, on small screen you could display one half of an open book and modally switch between combat log/journal-chat and on a large screen display both halves as separate halves of an open book at the same time. Screen aspect ratios do currently vary from ~1.3 to ~3.6 W/H even on single screen PC-class devices.

I don't like the UI mock much -- too much like IWD-2. The red/blue bars also look out of place and make the character portraits appear rather square. I'd like to see character portraits larger and on the left vertically stacked, use the red background effect from BG II / IWD for 'health' or its equivalent. If you're going to have bars (and a need to measure multiple things which would preclude the red-shaded health effect) at least give the bars the physicality of the rest of the UI. Even if you keep the horizontal thing going, make character portraits larger and the gages more 'physical.' The action buttons for spells and such are also slightly too small. The texture, color, and atmosphere of the UI are fine. It's the functional details, positioning, and sizes that feel off for the most part. This is actually the first update/proposed/draft of anything that I'm not much of a fan of at all. PS: Though I do like the 'scripted sequences page' or overlay or whatnot.

I want a roadrunner please. FYI they can totally fight rattlesnakes, so a big one ought to be a pretty good fencer.

I'm getting the sense that this game will heavily draw from early colonial themes, which is quite exciting. Fantasy Spain and Portugal try to carve up the secrets of the fantasy Maya. Or recover the lost secret of the fantasy Anasazi. Or something like that, though for some reason it seems a little more of a South/Central American vibe than a colonial Mexico one. Very excited. Lot's of room for great plots and should provide many sides to choose from!

It'd be cool if there were a graveyard region somewhere where all the dead PCs from trial of iron ended up with their own tombstones. Or maybe the last n wipes, with older wipes having their stones fade into dirt.

Looks amazing. I'm hoping the pixel dimensions of that area are enormous.

Turn based combat sucks. It's nothing like actually fighting. When was the last time you saw somebody say "Oh, it is not my turn. Please hit me sir." ? I can tell you the answer: never. Turn based combat can indeed be somewhat strategic or tactical or whatnot. But it's not combat. It's a stupid little game of silliness. RTwP helps make things more realistic and more truly tactical/strategic. Combat SHOULD be chaotic...

Shameless repost: I want to see a set of rapiers (in roughly IE terms): Duelist's Justice Rapier. Piercing. +2 to dex. 1 bonus to AC. +2 to hit, +4 vs. evil. On hit, 2 bleeding damage/s for 5 sec, save for half. Ability: Once per day, duelist's challenge - Wielder and target evil humanoid are instantly shifted to a pocket plane, healed for 20% of their max health, de-buffed, de-equipped, and then equipped with plain rapiers +3. If nobody has died after 15 rounds, Duelist's justice closes the pocket plane, deals 90% of its wielder's max hit points to its wielder and can never be equipped by them again, otherwise, If either fighter dies, the pocket plane closes, and the survivor is healed for 25% of max hit points. When the pocket plane closes, the survivors are re-quipped. Duelist's Desire Rapier. Piercing. +2 to dex. 1 bonus to AC. +2 to hit, +4 vs. good. On hit, 2 bleeding damage/s for 5 sec, save for half. Ability: Once per day, duelist's challenge - Wielder and target good humanoid are instantly shifted to a pocket plane, healed for 20% of their max health, de-buffed, de-equipped, and then equipped with plain rapiers +3. If nobody has died after 15 rounds, Duelist's justice closes the pocket plane, deals 90% of its wielder's max hit points to its wielder in damage and can never be equipped by them again, otherwise, if either fighter dies, the pocket plane closes and the survivor is healed for 25% of max hit points. When the pocket plane closes, the survivors are re-quipped. Duelist's Honor Rapier. Piercing. +2 to dex. 1 bonus to AC. +2 to hit, +4 vs. non-neutral. On hit, 2 bleeding damage/s for 5 sec, save for half. Ability: Once per day, duelist's challenge - Wielder and target non-neutral humanoid are instantly shifted to a pocket plane, healed for 20% of their max health, de-buffed, de-equipped, and then equipped with plain rapiers +3. If nobody has died after 15 rounds, Duelist's justice closes the pocket plane, deals 90% of its wielder's max hit points to its wielder in damage and can never be equipped by them again, otherwise, if either fighter dies, the pocket plane closes and the survivor is healed for 25% of max hit points. When the pocket plane closes, the survivors are re-quipped. The above 3 Rapiers can be combined and re-forged into: Duelist's Perfection Rapier. Piercing. +3 to dex. +1 attack/round. 2 bonus to AC., 4 bonus to AC vs. missiles. +3 to hit, +6 vs. humanoid. On hit, 4 bleeding damage/s for 4 sec, save for half. Ability: Three times per day, duel to the death - Wielder and target humanoid are instantly shifted to a pocket plane, healed to 100% health, de-buffed, de-equipped, and then equipped with plain rapiers +4. If the opponent does not share an alignment with the wielder, the opponent becomes afflicted with unworthiness and get -1 to strength, -1 to movement, and -2 to dexterity while in the pocket plane. If nobody has died after 15 rounds, Duelist's justice closes the pocket plane, deals 100% of its wielder's max hit points to its wielder in damage and can never be equipped by them again, otherwise, if either fighter dies, the pocket plane closes and the survivor is healed for 50% of max hit points, and re-equipped. Hopefully there are no typos. Back story: A fencing master, a maestro of a widely respected school of fencing, died with three promising pupils, but without naming a successor. Each pupil had a rapier made with which to challenge the others, believing that each of the other possible successors was entirely unsuitable to be maestro and failed to reflect the principles of the school. Each wielding a rapier enchanted to mirror their beliefs, they all managed to kill each other in a single duel and their swords were subsequently sold and scattered. It's rumored that each blade contains a piece of the original headmaster's soul, and that if the three swords are ever assembled and forged into one, his spirit will reappear within the completed blade and enable the restoration of his long lost school. Each individual sword could have a unique story about the pupil who had it foraged and what trinket was used to trap a sliver of the Maestro's essence..

I want to see a set of rapiers (in roughly IE terms): Duelist's Justice Rapier. Piercing. +2 to dex. 1 bonus to AC. +2 to hit, +4 vs. evil. On hit, 2 bleeding damage/s for 5 sec, save for half. Ability: Once per day, duelist's challenge - Wielder and target evil humanoid are instantly shifted to a pocket plane, healed for 20% of their max health, de-buffed, de-equipped, and then equipped with plain rapiers +3. If nobody has died after 15 rounds, Duelist's justice closes the pocket plane, deals 90% of its wielder's max hit points to its wielder and can never be equipped by them again, otherwise, If either fighter dies, the pocket plane closes, and the survivor is healed for 25% of max hit points. When the pocket plane closes, the survivors are re-quipped. Duelist's Desire Rapier. Piercing. +2 to dex. 1 bonus to AC. +2 to hit, +4 vs. good. On hit, 2 bleeding damage/s for 5 sec, save for half. Ability: Once per day, duelist's challenge - Wielder and target good humanoid are instantly shifted to a pocket plane, healed for 20% of their max health, de-buffed, de-equipped, and then equipped with plain rapiers +3. If nobody has died after 15 rounds, Duelist's justice closes the pocket plane, deals 90% of its wielder's max hit points to its wielder in damage and can never be equipped by them again, otherwise, if either fighter dies, the pocket plane closes and the survivor is healed for 25% of max hit points. When the pocket plane closes, the survivors are re-quipped. Duelist's Honor Rapier. Piercing. +2 to dex. 1 bonus to AC. +2 to hit, +4 vs. non-neutral. On hit, 2 bleeding damage/s for 5 sec, save for half. Ability: Once per day, duelist's challenge - Wielder and target non-neutral humanoid are instantly shifted to a pocket plane, healed for 20% of their max health, de-buffed, de-equipped, and then equipped with plain rapiers +3. If nobody has died after 15 rounds, Duelist's justice closes the pocket plane, deals 90% of its wielder's max hit points to its wielder in damage and can never be equipped by them again, otherwise, if either fighter dies, the pocket plane closes and the survivor is healed for 25% of max hit points. When the pocket plane closes, the survivors are re-quipped. The above 3 Rapiers can be combined and re-forged into: Duelist's Perfection Rapier. Piercing. +3 to dex. +1 attack/round. 2 bonus to AC., 4 bonus to AC vs. missiles. +3 to hit, +6 vs. humanoid. On hit, 4 bleeding damage/s for 4 sec, save for half. Ability: Three times per day, duel to the death - Wielder and target humanoid are instantly shifted to a pocket plane, healed to 100% health, de-buffed, de-equipped, and then equipped with plain rapiers +4. If the opponent does not share an alignment with the wielder, the opponent becomes afflicted with unworthiness and get -1 to strength, -1 to movement, and -2 to dexterity while in the pocket plane. If nobody has died after 15 rounds, Duelist's justice closes the pocket plane, deals 100% of its wielder's max hit points to its wielder in damage and can never be equipped by them again, otherwise, if either fighter dies, the pocket plane closes and the survivor is healed for 50% of max hit points, and re-equipped. Hopefully there are no typos.

If you're looking a for groups that are well versed in European martial arts, particularly Renaissance, I think the Blackfriars (http://www.blackfriarsfencing.com/about.php) and the Diamond Rose (http://www.diamondroseacademie.org/) are very good, though obviously they aren't particularly tech oriented. There's also a really good group in the Bay Area, but I can't think of the name.