Chaz

Well, thanks for at least taking back the statement that I hated you, feminism and sarkeesian just because I disagreed with you. And I don't inherintly dislike feminism, but I don't like it when it turns into sexism and misandry, I am for women righs and I am for men rights, I don't call myself a feminist because I don't think that focusing on the issues of only one gender will solve the problems of both. Well, I'm glad that we at least can find common ground in scientific fact, My previous reaction was because I considered disingenuous to belive she was talking about mental strenght when the primary and most common use of each of those words is for physical descrption, you brought them up. Also don't you think that if she was talking about mental strenght she would clarify it? I've heard that according to feminists, men are not naturally stronger than females, they are socially pressured to be strong and that's why they develop more muscle mass, now if that's actually what they think it's absolutely nuts, but that actually fits into sarkeesian world view. She sees the Damsel in Distress as a social fabrication and think it's unnatural for a woman to actually need the protection of a man, when in fact men have historically protected women, due to our biological cycle they carry the babies, they feed them and for the survival of the species they needed to be protected, and I also think that's why men are more muscular, to be better suited for that role. That doesn't mean that women today are helpless without a man, but that's how we evolved and those were the roles we had. Also answer me this, do you really think that women are helpless or inferior because you played video games? because if you answer is No, then you actually disagree with Anita's premise, her video series was desinged to point out that video games reinforce sexist and mysoginistic ideas about women.

And now we enter the land where words say whatever we want them to say, this is what she said: "The belief that women are somehow a naturally weaker gender is a deeply engrained socially constructed myth, which of course is completely false. But the notion is reinforced and perpetuated when women are continuasly portrayed as frail, fragile and vulnarable creatures" Naturally weaker, frail, fragile, vunlerable, these are Physical traits, are we to belive that you people still stand behind her and give her money when what she is stating goes completely against our understanding of Biology and Science? And are we to belive that she's not out to attack video games when she said "Video Games tend to reinforce and amplify sexist and downright mysonist ideas about women" Honestly people do you really feel that women are so inferior or that you hate women after you are done playing a video game? Honestly if you haven't watched go watch it

Yeah, the video "Feminism vs FACTS" brought that up, I mentioned here how her views are against biology and sicentific facts and her defenders keep ignoring it, their response? they throw Justin Bieber pictures and comics with straw man arguements at me, which I responded, but they dont extend the same courtesy and respond to my arguements. BTW, if you wanna play Justin Bieber online, have it it! none of my effing business. I'm not sure I agree, many people have stayed away from this issue, I don't know of anyone recognizable in the gaming media that has challenged her views, Thunderf00t is not even a gaming channel Yeah, but was it wrong? the audience was overwhelmingly made of teenage boys and little kids, You can't even say "yeah it was harmful because it portrayed women as helpless and inferior" because that's ballooney, many of us grew up with 8-bit games and are now adults, we don't see women as inferior. I certainly don't, that's why when I hear about a patriarchy and video games diminishing women, I completely disagree. Yes they are evolving, and will continue to.

Haha, that's cute, but first of all, look up "straw man arguement" I never said women liked overpowered hulks, in fact many women have told me about their dislike of excesively muscular men, weather in fiction or real life, I did say that women like men that are fit and handsome, and yeah, pretty much all protagonists are super fit and handsome guys, but the "pretty boy" stereotype doesn't botter me. Sorry, I never said that I dislike/hate feminists and or sarkeesian, but I did state that I don't agree with their approach if you want to reach equality, I do personally dislike sexist and extremists that are not for equality and just want to reverse the roles and install a matriarchy, which is never gonna happen but I still dislike their views. I also don't like hate groups since many so called feminists devolve into misandry. Sorry you don't get to say that I hate you just because I disagree with you.

Exactly, you can't really be for equality if you only focus on the issues of one, if you are really for equality you have to focus for the issues of both, that's why feminists arguements are always one sided and sexism is a one way street for them, they only care about one side, and that will never reach equality. Also, the patriarchy is part of the feminist theory, which is the cornerstone of their idiology, and if you ask me I reject the whole Idea of a patriarchy, I think it's lunacy Haha, I don't plan to buy it, you know free market and all, but even so, I've played great games where the main character kinda looked like that. Raiden in Metal Gear Solid 2 is one example I can think off, that game was amazing and it was kind of a let down not beign able to play as snake, but you have to admit, raiden was a pretty boy that looked like a supermodel, he wasn't muscular and he was agile, it didn't bother me.

The point that you are missing is that even if.... Holy ****! look at them 8 packs on Gambit!!! No doubt women find it attactive, I could work my ass off and I doubt I would ever look like that, hell not even professional atheletes get to look like that, you're telling me that gambit is not overbuffed and Nightcrawler is standing on one hand ffs, he has a great physique as well. Also you are doing a straw man arguemnt, I never said women like overbuffed men (like zangief) I said that many characters are super fit and super handsome. and David Bowie is not a video game character wtf. But that's fine, I dont mind if girls find this character or that character super hot, I'm not going to say it's wrong or that is unfair to men because most men don't look like that. Let everyone have their eye candies and be happy, only a douchebag would go around critizing people for beign attracted to the opposite sex and the fact that you enjoy watching their good physique. As I said before, feminists are against biology, against sex and against free speech.

Yeah, I am more on the side of the video (btw I just realized that Thor was Kirk's dad)

Actually that 'protector' role is due to the simple fact that given human reproduction cycle males are far more expendable.AFAIK it has nothing to do with physical attributes. And you base this opinion on what scientific evidence? On anthropological studies of primitive tribes.The hunter-gatherer people tended to form egalitarian tribes. Only advancement to farming communities allowed growth of so much population that wars could be fought to the point of annihilation. Losing women to war (whether to combat or kidnapping) meant a huge hit to reproductive prospect of the community and weakened it's prospects for the upcoming generations. On the other hand losing men was more acceptable as you could temporarily suspend rules of monogamy and/or incest prohibition and be mostly fine population-wise for the future. Well, I don't like how the word expendable sounds but yeah it makes sense, and it's not only about the reproductive cycle, we have evolved so men are physically stronger to better take on the role of protector of the pack/tribe to better ensure the continuation of the species, you could say that the packs with wimpy males were wiped out, so the ones that got to evolve were the ones with strong males. But if we take sarkeesian's point of view, the role of protector is a myth designed by the patriarchy, and the Fact that males have more muscle mass than females is also another myth. If anything Video Games have been more than fair to women since in many games women are as strong as males and have no statistical disadvantage

Actually that 'protector' role is due to the simple fact that given human reproduction cycle males are far more expendable.AFAIK it has nothing to do with physical attributes. And you base this opinion on what scientific evidence?

Many feminists are also nutjobs, they are against biology, they are against sex and this one is against freedom of speech. In her own video sarkeesian says that the idea that females are weaker than males is a completely socially constructed myth, and that's just factually wrong. In our species males and females have different physical characteristics and males are stronger, it's not a fabrication, it is a fact. But she doesn't care about any facts that would challenge her position, and that's the reason she disabled comments. Also do you think DiD is also a myth constructed by the patriarchy too or do you think it has to do with the facts that throughout history males have taken on the roles of protectors because they are physicaly stronger? For me she is no different than an NRA nutjob or a religious extremist, the sad thing is that we usually don't give 160k so they can attack video games. Now, wait a minute, if a girl says she is attracted to a male character and she objectivize it who are you to tell her that she is not attracted? I could understand that they are muscular for male escapism, but the devs make them pretty boys for male escapsim too? To be honest, I don't find much difference in arguing with someone on youtube or with you here, both are anonymous guys* in the internet If you understand that video games are for profit and that making fox the main character was the right move how is it unacceptable? Also if there is a victim here (I dont think there is) it's not the women of the world, the "victims" in this case were the guys at Rareware, because their original vision for the game was changed by the publisher, and the character they created was relegated to a secondary role. As I said before, the DiD trope is designed to empower the PLAYER, not the males (even if males were much more predominant among gamers) and you know why the damsel is robbed of agency? because they are not the player, they are not the main character, they are not the protagnist. Also a guy can play as a male or female character (I recently played as Kerrigan in sc2) and you can still relate to them because we are all human, the same way a woman can play as a male character and still relate to it, but it looks like this concept escapes sarkeesian since she lacks any kind of empathy. In pretty much all the games the NPCs have no agency unless they are a villain or a companion, NPCs just stand around and wait for you to solve their problems for them, they are helpless without the player.

I do think that these videos are an attack or will turn into one as new videos are released, and what bothers me is that this isn't really about video games, this is about feminism, which in my opinion should have no place in video games, the same way masculinism should have no place in video games. What sarkeesian does in her channel is watch movies and series and comment on how sexist and misogynist they are, and that's what she plans to do for video games. I previously made the comparison on how the NRA picked on the gaming industry blaming them for gun violance, hell even video games were burnt by ignorant people in response to sandy hook, we're easy target and part of the reason is because we don't fight back. There are tropes against women and men, and also against wolves like it was pointed out. Is it really an issue? No, sarkeesian is making it an big issue to advance her feminist agenda. If you want to watch some youtubers criticizing her video or her views in general you can check out the channel of some male and female youtubers such as: nyxikins, Thunderf00t, InuitInua, MrRepzion, KiteTales, TheAmazingAtheist and Leahtastical.

I found several videos on youtube of different lady gamers responding to sarkeesian, saying that men are as objectified as much as women on video games, they are super fit, muscular and handsome the same way women have thin waist and big breasts. But no, for feminists, sexism is a one way street and it only happens when men do it. Also the narrative used in video games, damsel in distress beign one of them is supposed to be empowering for the player, not just the men. As human beigns we are able to relate and empathize with other human beigns even if they are a different gender, in my case I played as kerrigan in Starcraft 2 recently and I loved it. The same way, ladies can play with a male character and still enjoy the game and the story, I even heard some girl gamers saying that they like watching Ezio's butt, Who da thunk it, it turns out women objetivize men as well, it may turn out that they are sexually attracted to men after all. I don't want to insult anybody, but it looks like many gamers don't even want to tackle this issue because they don't have the balls or they have a white knight complex, the ones I've seen critisize this point of view were mostly other gamer girls and some guys that have channels that have nothing to with gaming but are more like skeptics and decided to point out the fallacies in her arguments.

There are tons of content makers out there that are trolled, insulted and even threatened by some, not all, of the people in the comments. Yet still they don't disable them. Also when you disable comments you are not only silencing the trolls, you are silencing people that have valid critisism and also the people that agree with you that could add to the conversation, but she's not interested in a conversation, you disable comments, you are here to preach so at least let's admit that. Well it is exceptionally common if you go ahead and cherry pick the games where female are the victim and ignore the games where they are protagonists, also most of the games that were mentioned were platformers and beat em up from the 8-bit era, games that were exceptional for their lack of writing because that was simply not the focus of the game, all characters were one dimensional, and the plot is set up in literally 5 seconds, girlfriend gets punched and kidnapped by bad guys, gotta go get her. Who wouldnt help her, right? well now it looks like that if you want to help her you're a mysoginist Wrong again Bob, the gaming industry is not out to please the men, they are out to make a profit, and the gamer demographic at the begining was overwhelmingly male dominant, mostly kids, by the way, that wouldn't give a damn about the oversimplified plot and just wanted to play because it was fun to punch bad guys in Double Dragon or eat mushrooms with Mario. A lot of women have joined the gaming community since, and games have also changed a lot, but even back in the old school days you would have female protagonists in games like Ms Pacman or Phantasy Star, or games that would allow you to choose to play as a male or female, like the original fallout. First of all, pretty much all feminist belive in the patriarchy and It came off to me that way when she said "in the game of patriarchy, women are not the opposing team, they are the ball" while showing an image of bowser holding peach in a sphere, he's more like a monster, not a man, but you get the point. I don't belive in the patriarchy and actually I belive Video Games as a media is portraying women on a very positive light, we have a ton of strong and capable female protagonists and Im sure we'll have many more. Which of these scenarios is more likely to you? Miyamoto made Star Fox the main character of Dinosaur Planet because he dislike females and didn't want to have krystal as the protagonist or he simply decided that a famous character from an established franchise would bring them more money? Again, they are after profits, it's not a conspiracy against women. And as a final note, while she complains that a strong character like Krystal was turned into a damsel, in her thesis she says that strong females are not really feminists, they are just pretending to be male because strength is a male trait. So which one is it, does she want strong female characters or not? Anyway, that is my critique and I hope gamers don't fall for the same trap of "omg a girl is beign bullied I gotta give her money!" Looks like she was the biggest damsel in distress after all, embarrasing.

I gotta say, the first time I heard about this video it sounded like nonsense to me because I don't see the Video Game media to be mysoginist at all, I decided to give it a shot and watched it anyway, the alarms started to go off when I saw comments and ratings were disabled on her video. On my experience the only ones that disable comments and ratings on youtube are usually dogmatic fanatics that are not interested in an intellectual dialogue and just want to preach, boy was I right! The main point on her video was that if you try to do what any normal person in a relationship would do (like trying to help or rescue a loved one like a girlfriend) then you are objectifying her and she is merely a damsel in distress. Man, good thing I watched that sarkeesian video, now I know that if my gf gets kidnapped I just have to sit back and let her escape on her own, I don't want to disempower or objectify her after all. Sorry but I don't see how anyone could possibly buy that. It also looks like she wants to spread the delusion that the video game industry is some sort of patriarchal organization that's out to objectify and subjugate women, this is particularly embarrasing for all the gamers and game developers that gave her money on good faith only for her to turn back and attack the gaming industry so she could advance her own feminist agenda. This is like if we gave money to the NRA so they could keep accusing the gaming industry of beign a corrupt, callous and shadowy organization, Video Games have always been an easy target for anyone wanting to dishonestly promote their ideas, we've been accused of causing gun violence, sexism, animal cruelty, you name it, but at least we were not funding these attackers, well, until now at least. I understand that people saw a woman beign massively harrased and wanted to help her, and even now people are reluctant to be critical of her videos because they don't want to attack a woman, but seriously, anyone that puts forth a controversial point of view is going to be attacked, and the fact that there was a lot opposition to her ideas didn't mean she was right, I hope the gaming community is more critical of people wanting to take advantage of them as we go forward.

Well in my case NWN is one of my favorites RPGs of all time and I didn't even play the OC, the first time I grabbed the game was to play a PW, as time went on i played different PWs and met a lot of people, that was my experience with the game and no other game since has offered something similar, I've been a player, a DM, I designed dungeons, towns, monsters, etc. Would love to do that again, maybe with kickstarter there is a chance to see a game like that in the future

When people talk about great RPGs you always hear about Baldurs Gate, Torment or Fallout, but what about NWN? That was probably the first game that made me feel the power was in my hands with the Toolset and the Dungeon Master Client. It was a game that allowed you to create your own persistant world where you could invite your friends and do whatever you wanted to do. I haven't seen a game like that before and sadly I haven't seen a game like that since, probably because it was more profitable for developers to charge for DLC and Micro Transactions than allowing players to create, host and manage their own content. Watching some videos of Dungeonland reminded me of how fun was to play with the DM client, it was the closest experience of playing tabletop but with all the commodities sitting in front of your PC playing a video game. Now that developers have kickstarter as an alternative way to fund their game, I wonder if anyone would be interested in making a game like that, Obsidian worked on NWN2, I bet they have their hands full with the current project but I would love to see them do it and they don't even have to bother getting a licence from WotC, they could use their own IP.

The Statement that resources spent in making the game more accesible to people from other countries are wasted is Xenophobic and offesive. Specially when a big ammount of backers are europeans. I can handle myself fine, but many players could really use subtitles, like when you go see a movie that's not on your native language, for example.

Well I suppose the haters and xenophobes will be raging because they decided to localize the game to 3 other languages...

Well, now I just feel silly

Is this the Official Project Eternity Channel? http://www.youtube.com/user/ObsidianEternity It only has 1 video on it, maybe the guys at Obsidian would want to upload more stuff (like the update videos, etc) to help them gain more visibility and hopefully more backers.

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I Voted Yes but actually I meant to say No... derp!

I don't consider myself an Obsidian insider to say how big the budget for modding or multiplayer would be. But I have confidence that Project Eternity will reach $3 mill before the campaign is over.

As I said in other thread. Aside from the Modding Toolkit I'd love to see something like the DM client if possible

Neverwinter Nights beign one of my favorite games of all time I'd love to see them implement a multiplayer mode like they did, with a DM client and the ability to create PWs. The Aurora Toolset kept the modding community alive for years and it's still going strong. I still get invites to participate in NWN Servers from friends and get asked to participate as DM. If they implement something like that it would be huge!