Chaz

A lot of handwaving, still no evidence to support his case.

But did you understand there was an equivocation and we were talking about different things? I mean I don't want to keep making more points if you didn't aknowledged or understood my previous point. Based on the definition of anti-sex that I was using, you can't be anti-porn and pro-sex at the same time because they are mutually exclusive.

. lol, I will explain what we meant since he didn't elaborate. When se talk about anti-sex we mean one thing and you and the blogger talk about anti-sex they are talking about a different thing. When I talk about Anti-Sexuality I'm talking about beign against sexuality in the media, in our case, video games. for example Bayonetta is a very sexualized character, her outfit, her moves, her personality. While some people see no harm in this Anita and many feminists condem it (as I showed in her Bayonetta Review) What your Blogger is basically saying is "Hey I'm not anti-sex, I enjoy sex with my significant other and want to have sex in my life, I'm a pro-sex person" she is basically saying that she enjoys the act of having sex and it's not against it, while she is condeming the whole porn industry. I was the one that shared that video, but I gues he must have put me on ignore since he had no idea what we were talking about. What is a craven cover?

Not even that, there is no evidence that she bought and even played some of the games she talked about, like double dragon neon. She couldn't have played Dinosaur Planet because it was never released, everything she said could have been picked off from the wikipedia. And even her own research is lazy, Fox never replaced Krystal, he replaced Saber, you know, the main male character, but whatever, her supporters will just rationalize it away like they have been doing for the past 12 pages.

I expanded a bit on my post, that was, you know, right under his.

If you payed any attention to what I've been writting you would have seen that she actually did make that case* but you haven't. * she never said they were inherently misogynist, she said that they reinforce and amplify misogyny, which is a serious accusation

Right, when i say anti-sex I'm saying that she is against sexuality, not that she doesn't want to have sex herself and hopes to remain a virgin That's like when the religious say "we are in favor of sex... that is only in the missionary position for the sole purpouse of procreation, see? we are pro-sex" Yeah, right buddy. What else you got?

Ok, that's fair enough, and I am not to commentate on the state of affairs of japan, the video I posted was to show how sexually represive she is and I hope I made that perfectly clear. If a game is too sexualized for you, don't buy it. I don't find it to be an issue, but since I'm a PC gamer, no Bayonetta for me, besides I'm not that into spectacle fighters. I see it as trying to force your preferences into everyone else, and I'm sorry, but you're not entitled to have every single game in the industry be made to your liking. I know that every guy that disagrees with anita is seen as a troll or a hater, but what about the ? Are they misogynistic too? Are they Brainwashed by the Patriarchy? I'll let you decide... but the answer is no.

Based on her she seems disgusted by the character flexibility and call her moves "pornographic", she doesn't like when bayonetta does sexy poses for the players, she doesn't like that the character gets naked, and she doesn't like that she sucks on a lollipop. According to her all of this is bad, she said so herself. I conclude that she is anti-sex, anti-pornography and she doesn't like characters to be overly sexualized, even when we are talking about an artistic medium, besides, the ESRB already accounts for nudity and sexual themes. She has every right to moderete her own channel, I only said that she strikes me as pro censorship, but I admit I have no evidence. Besides, if trolls get censored because they are offensive, I bet she would ban video games if she had that kind of power, because she considers them offensive amd harmful. Look, I don't know her, and based on her Bayonetta review, it looks like she didn't even play the game and she was running her mouth, so I don't know how much of a gamer she is of ir she cares about games at all, but I can say this, she cares more about promoting feminism than video games. And as I said before, my analogy was to point out THE LACK OF EVIDENCE. both Wayne and Anita could be gamers or neither of them could be gamers, you could be the most hardcore gamer in the world, you still need evidence to support your claims.

Now wait a minute, she said so herself in her kickstarter video, that video games reinforce and amplify misogyny. And it's true she never stated her position on censorship and freedom of speech, but most anti-pronography, anti-sex feminists are pro censorship. And if it serves as any indication she tends to disable comments and ratings on most of her videos, you can take this as if she is pro censorship or you may not. I compared her to the NRA because both her and wayne lapierre accussed video games of very serious things, real world misogyny and gun violence are not a joke, however both have failed to provide evidence to support their case, that was my analogy. I also said that both person seem dishonest to me because they are attacking an easy target, like video games, to promote their agendas, in the case of the NRA is selling more guns, and in anita's case is promoting radical feminism. Why do I brand her a radical? because there is a split in the feminist community, there are many sex-positive feminists that have no issue with pornography and argue that pornography does not seriously make an impact since the viewer can distinguish between pornography and reality, and they recognize that both sexes are objectified. now these are their views on porn, not video games, but the same arguments can be applied, that's why there are female gamers that write sarkeesian off as an extremist, but sadly they don't have much visibility. Many of her supporters hold the position that you either agree with her or you are hater or a troll, reminds of the video but throughout the thread I have made several points, I tried to present different kinds of arguments, quoted anita and other people, made analogies, pointed out at the obvious lack of evidence to support their case, at this point some of her supporters won't even answer and note that at no point I insulted anybody, a bit of snark? sure, but no real disrespect came from my part.

Yeah and nobody is saying that there is no worth in studying these kinds of things, but one of my biggests objections to Anita's video is that this is not a study of any sort, she already concluded in advance that video games are responsible for misogyny. I pointed out several flaws, but her supporters just don't even read it, they don't want to deal with those arguments. Personally, I can't take them seriously until some evidence is presented that this tropes are actually responsible for real world misogyny. What I have noted is that the many of the top gaming countries in the world are among the countries with less sexism, specially in the western world. On the other hand, the countries that are terribly sexists and oppresive against women, not much of a gaming scene there. If anything I think that's a very positive correlation showing that countries with artistic freedom and freedom of speech are going in the right direction.

If you think this is some sort of study to discover if video games are misogynistic you'll be disappointed, she already declared that video games were misogynistic in her kickstarter video, now she is laying down only the evidence that supports her case, like all her videos, this one is terribly one sided. I agree that some people may be discussing if rescuing peach has made them sexists or misogynists, I see it more as a discussion of how crazy radical feminism is, hating sexuality, hating anything that's marketed for boys, hating that many games were just teenager fantasies (When many of us were teenegers or kids when those game came out) beign pro-censorship and restricting free-spech. Also I think it's very sad how disingenuous some of her supporters can be, to avoid losing an argument one admited that he is more likely to hate women and now see them as inferior just because they played video games. Or when I show you guys evidence that what she is saying goes against biology I was automatically dismissed "oh she is not talking about physical strenght, she is talking about strenght of character" with many reasonable people such evidence would be a deal breaker, not in this case. Recently I pointed out how she contradicted her own thesis and it totally went over people's head. Let's be honest here, you don't want an intellectual discussion, you presented no evidence to support your case and ignored anything that might prove that you are wrong.

You could have replied to provide evidence to support your claim, or disprove his, but I guess we can all laugh together This may sound shocking but I don't think I'm actually qualified to peer review this study, but if the scientific community reviews it and determines the results are valid we can talk about that for sure. Also, I don't want to be the one moving the goal posts, but I don't think a single study is enough, in the case of gun violence there have been many studies to determine if video games can cause violence, and the most they were able to prove is that you may become more agressive, the same way playing a competitive sport makes you agressive, but not necessarily violent. Look, if you think there is a problem, I don't think there is, but if you think there is a problem, vote with your wallet, if you think we live in a patriarchy go ahead and vote more women into positions of power, personally I think we are supposed to vote for politicians because you agree with their policies and not because of their gender, same with video games, I buy video games because they are fun , I don't care for the gender of the developers. Also, if you want to fight this supposed misogyny* in video games then I advice you don't buy any games where a woman needs you're help because you are turning her into a damsel, and don't buy games where women are strong and capable either because they are just "pretending to be men" like sarkeesian said in her thesis, also don't you dare buy any games where women have big breasts or wear revealing outfits, because that's just sexist. *NOTE: it doesn't exist

I love how she and her supporters act as if it has already been proven that the tropes cause real harm for women, when there is no evidence at all. I guess reason goes out the window. Her video series is like those terrorist trials, they put you in front of a camera, read the list of your crimes and then execute you. At no point in her videos is an effort to discuss the issue, there is no discussion. Also what do you suggest we do? we already have an ESRB. are we going to forbid developers and artist from creating sexy characters? The hell with free spech, go radical feminism!

Her point is always the same, that is misgynistic, you know, so now if you play Bayonetta now you hate women. And of course she calls it "choose your own patriarchal adventure" again with the delusion of the patriarchy Not to mention that she doesn't know ***** about the game, and at the end it came off slightly racist against the japanese, so yeah, keeping it classy, sarkeesian.

I always like how shows how seriously Sarkeesian takes her research when she wants to critisize a game. And in case you didn't notice, the annotations were not added by her.

Well that was good for a laugh, if you're definition of sexism is going to be that broad, then yeah, video games and everything else is sexist. For the record I called her by her last name as well. You're argument is asenine.

I see Anita as an extremsist as well, she's a pro-censorship, anti-sex feminist, I imagine that if it was up to her she would ban video games that she didn't like the same way that she bans people who disagree with her on her youtube channel. You can say "oh you just hate/dislike feminists" but that is not only playing the victim card, it is false, feminism is not one monolithic entity, there is a split between anti-sex feminists and the ones that advocate for sexual liberation, and I have no issue with the latter. Now if you kidnapped princess peach you might be misogynist, but you're not the one that kidnapps her, you're the one that saves her, silly.

Yeah i had to ask the same question 3 times and call you out because you never responded, you didn't "come across" anything Yes you are using the "Sarkeesian Method" or yes you think you are more misogynist because of video games? I am asking for a self- review to see if you, personally, agree with the view that video games amplify and reinforce misogyny (and aparently you were perfectly able to adamantly respond) this is in no way shape or form intended to determine if everyone is more sexist because they played video games. lol what? It's the truth! You don't get to accuse someone or something without any evidence, if you make a claim you have to back it up. What the... I never said I was responding to anita, I was responding to you! you seemed to have misinterpreted what I said and I was clarifying, that is not a straw man, man.

And the moment to belive any hypothesis is true, is when there is evidence for it, and not a second before.

Are you suggesting that exposure to ideas in consumed media has no impact on the socialization of human beings? Another Straw Man incoming? be careful, you don't want to respond to an argument I didn't make, again. I said there is no evidence to show correlation between peach beign kidnapped and real world misogyny, can media have an impact? sure. But specifically misogyny for playing Mario? there's no evidence. And I'm getting tired of responding to your fallacies when you don't even answer to half the arguments I make, and you didn't respond to the question I made either

It could reinforce them subconsciously. But until someone creates an implicit misogyny test, we can't really tell. So in short, no evidence that shows correlation between princes peach beign kidnapped and real world misogyny. Gee, I wonder where I heard baseless accusations before... oh yeah! "There exists in this country a callous, corrupt and corrupting shadow industry that sells, and sows violence against its own people," How is that guy worse than Sarkeesian?

The reason why I said Feminists are against freedom of speech is because she disabled comments and ratings on her videos, putting her in par with other nutjobs such as creationists that think the earth is 6000 old. I see some people like to use the sarkeesian method and ignore the critics. I asked if you guys, as a result of playing video games, now you feel women are Inferior, because that's her whole premise, that video games amplify and reinforce misogyny and sexism

I'll keep it short then. previously I posed this question, Do you think that as a result of playing video games now you see women as inferior? If your answer is no, then you disagree with the whole premise of her series which is to point out how games reinforce sexist and mysoginistic ideas about women. And that question goes to everyone, because by her logic, if video games have been so mysgonistic then most gamers would hate women, when there is no evidence to suggest that, I mean, what is the evidence? angry teenagers in xbox live? youtube comments? that's it? Where is the link between bowser kidnapping peach and real life misogyny like women getting their faces melted with acid in the middle east? Yeah boy, those Taliban must be some really hardcore gamers! /sarcasm It's not really beign dismissive, there's actually no evidence, there have been several studies to prove the link between games and violence and none of them have proved it, , for me sarkeesian is in par with the NRA, attacking video games when they have caused no harm.

So, the Straw Man that you tried to pull on me was intentional or accidental?