Sensuki

Percentages are probably throwing you out. Integers are easier to grasp. +1 Damage - very easy to grasp 2% - not so easy That's why most games either go with integer damage and integer or percentile armor - as that's much easier to understand.

It's not a flaw I created. The elegance we spoke about was two offensive, two defensive and two universal attributes. We do not count what the attributes give to the minor defenses in that assessment.

I don't think that's what Monte Carlo meant.

That's fine - wasn't my decision to have the three defenses spread across the attributes like that and Attribute-influenced Deflection is kind of demanded by the system IMO. 2H melee hits hit pretty hard and pretty often. A spell that does more damage than that has a 6 second cast+recovery time. 2H Melee can attack twice at least in that time.

Like we stated in our paper, this is not a problem because no matter how you assign your attributes, the three minor defenses will get the same points distributed among them, it just depends how you spend your attribute points. Deflection is directly competing against the other stuff - Accuracy, Damage etc Deflection will most likely be stayin in, so either way this will happen anyway.

Competing against each other for attribute points. In my second revision I will be removing Interrupt. The reason we did not suggest removing interrupt is we were not sure that the devs OR the backers wanted it gone. Deflection is still a very good combat stat to have in the attribute system, because you need *something* else in there other than what's in there now. It's a strong 'main' combat stat along with Damage, Accuracy, Stamina/Health (which to me are the same), Durations and now IAS. There is nothing else in the game that could be used without creating a new mechanic.

You also have to think about how everything is calculated Fortitude, Reflex and Will are calculated like this [Attribute A + Attribute B] x 1.5 Which is quite weird. so a 15 and 15 in Might and Con gives you 45 Fortitude at level 1 Class Deflection gives you between 5 and 25 so you are MUCH easier to hit, if targeted by Deflection Attribute Influenced Deflection allows you to protect yourself from the majority of attacks (since the majority of attacks will be deflection based) which is extremely valuable. Deflection is not competing against the other 3 defenses as they are out of the equation, it is competing against it's inverse - Accuracy, and other things that help with combat. I think it's really needed to be there all along.

We did this to balance Resolve against Perception, Resolve technically does almost the inverse of Perception. I believe they should go together to preserve the symmetry, and I think what they offer goes together well. I don't think removing Interrupt changes that - we need to make the attribute have roughly equal efficacy as Constitution for the purposes of survival time in combat. Now you're also forgetting that Deflection on it's own contributes incoming DPS reduction, while Concentration contributes outgoing DPS loss prevention. Two completely different things. Deflection does increase effective Interrupt against Deflection attacks but so does Fortitude, Reflex and Will Defense - and you get equal points in them because they are spread across the attributes evenly.

Found the last companion

Can't say sorry mate, it's a spoiler and I don't want to spoil the story for you.

Looks like you can still buy beta keys ? They're still on the site

This discussion has given me another idea, I think I can make it a difficult choice for DPSers to choose between Might and Perception (without Interrupt) A difficult choice for tanks between CON and RES (our version) A difficult choice for supports between INT and DEX and that would make it a difficult choice for wizards, ciphers etc between four (or more) of these attributes Give me a few days to work something together with Matt and I'll be back with a shorter .pdf I think a lot of people like the thematic 2-2-2 split too. Josh seems to have a problem with attributes being a non-choice but somehow is picking on supports and the Intellect attribute only which is noticing the tree but missing the forest. I think he also has a specific problem with Deflection on Resolve or Deflection and Concentration together. I think AoE/Duration and Deflection/Concentration need to stay together, but I think I have a theory that could make everything a much, much more difficult choice for all classes and builds. If Matt wants to continue with me we will be back with a shorter .pdf that revises our ideas into something stronger. Thankyou everyone for your input and if Matt accepts, we will be back soonish with my new idea.

That's our system anyway - Josh's proposal would make it more confusing.

Absolutely but I would order them like this: DPS: Might, Accuracy Tank: Constitution, Deflection Support: Intellect, Dexterity Other casters: primary effect (duration or AoE) and then Might (or Accuracy if debuffer). Yeah well obviously he's going to prefer the idea that he came up with, I don't know if most people care enough about it either.

Yeah but my point is that for DPS classes - Might, no brainer. For tanks - CON, no brainer. It throws off the attribute choice balance. I said they'd have to change the game to make it a tough choice for all builds.

Debating with Sawyer on SA atm and he doesn't want you to have that freedom, he wants it to be a tough choice, but I am pointing out that their proposed change only makes it a tough choice for one type of build - support classes.

combat log is in a bad position for on the fly reading though, due to being in the far right.

Well the thing is the Combat HUD already does exactly that - it's just not working 100% properly atm, Josh said so on Something Awful. In a broad sense - UI help is a casual feature whereas no UI help is more old school style which many more hardcore types prefer, I am always going to use that term because I am from the RPGCodex There's two types of crowds to please here and you IMO the devs need to support both with different types of feedback, so that when the helper features are turned off, people can still tell what's going on.

That's not the problem. There is a crowd of hardcore gamers like myself that do not want to use those kind of helper features. I don't want to use combat huds or any stuff like that. Expert mode allows you to disable all of that stuff permanently for that playthrough - that's the real reason why there needs to be those visual cues.

You're probably right, I was just typing what came into my mind, there seems to be a split on the direction. Regardless thanks for the rap, and there will be more where this came from, probably not as verbose or in .pdf format , but there are many other avenues of the game that are in need of dire attention.

Uhhh, no, until maybe an area transition? I don't remember. I've been doing mostly testing and not saving my games because they're broken.

sounds cut out for me in combat

Did you search for floor? http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68339-bug-v278-after-loading-game-my-mc-has-a-shield-glued-to-his-feet/?hl=floor&do=findComment&comment=1503341 and there's more too wrong keyword

That was just thinking out aloud, if they were undecided they could do that is what I meant, as this is a crowd-funding project after all. WL2 had votes for stuff and so did Torment, not sure about D:OS (can't remember). Oh there was already a vote on extra stretch goals, but they went against it anyway. Apparently they were already going to put 2% IAS on Dexterity and put Accuracy on Perception, I don't know if we convinced them on the Deflection thing either that was more sparked by the other people in the thread I knew Deflection would be the hardest sell as Josh has seemed VERY resistant to it for a long time, over multiple multiple attribute threads. I think if anything Matt's work (the graphs and calculations) could be helpful for them if they want to do any of this stuff based off some stats.