Sensuki

C Priority feature. KotC rolling system was nice but I think the core point buy needs to be perfected.

Weapon damage ranges are good, but the current ranges are wrong. This is the next topic I'd like to tackle with Matt - I have an idea already.

An Optional Critical Hit Screen Shake is something they could do. Interrupts are obvious to me, but the spell FX often makes you miss things - as the Spell FX while most of them look nice, are a bit over the top for this type of game. The interrupt animation could also be improved and *maybe* the length increased from 15 to 20 frames. We decided to focus on balancing the attributes with the way the current system works, because the developers can easily raise the percentages and totals on their own. One issue that needs to be dealt with is the point buy system and making Racial and Cultural bonuses worth something, so making attributes worth more could tie into that. You *could* have triangular progression bonuses or something, but that would only be supported by a positive and negative system where 10 is 0 and numbers forward and back progress triangularly (in a similar way to the Skill system). But that makes bonuses from items and buffs SUPER OVERPOWERED.

That might be an okay suggestion but I think that when trying to make suggestions for tuning combat you should never use the slow function, because the default speed needs to be perfected before anything. Someone on the Codex made this:

I also think that if we can get the attribute system locked down, it will FLING the door wide open for Talent discussion. Our paper has likely given a lot of backers a deeper understanding of how the attributes interact, so I can see people coming away with stuff like - I want to make an Intellect Fighter, but currently the Fighter doesn't have enough duration based abilities - no brainer there is to add some optional duration based abilities into the talent system to make that build more viable. And so on and so forth. I'd also like to point out that the entire forum discussion seems to have taken a swing in the direction of positive and constructive posts rather than butthurt and bickering after we posted this. This attitude should be kept up, as it's much better for inspiring ideas that could improve the game.

Pacing is one issue I am interested in examining and some forum members have been sending me PMs with their thoughts. That will come later. I've already said that the combat log isn't in the best position for on the fly reading, but what Titan Quest did is show critical hit floating damage numbers in a different color (yellow) to the standard color ones. So you could have the floating numbers the same color as their text in the log or something ? And you could have a different sound effect for grazes, hits and crits as well.

An Interrupt isn't tripping them up though, it's a hit reaction. IE games had hit reactions when you were hit as well. You may have different ideas of what an interrupt should be, however.

Cheers! and it's actually the second. My Suggestion #008 became the third most liked post on the entire forum (the one where I demonstrated the IWD combat feedback). Cheers Mate. I got the idea as soon as I read the Interrupt mechanics Josh posted on Something Awful. Had a Mexican Taco Girl moment.

I think they do, they're actually currently bugged funnily enough but it makes more sense if you actually score some type of hit, rather than being able to Interrupt on a miss.

My justification for Deflection under Resolve is that it is a mirrored attribute against Perception, like it is now. If Accuracy and Interrupt go together (which I think they need to), Deflection and Concentration should go together. You could put it on Intellect, absolutely, but casters are far better off having both Duration and AoE together. If casters are worried about their spells getting interrupted, our version of Resolve would be great for them either way as it would also protect them better against stuff like ranged attacks. I think trying to change Intellect now (one of the three 'perfect' attributes in the game') is unnecessary. What Concentration needs is a combat stat that grants survivability to go with it. Durations would only technically offer that through longer ability use. It wouldn't be a bad attribute, but I think it's less good than your current version of Intellect and our proposed Resolve. Also not forgetting that splitting Deflection and Concentration creates a rift where Accuracy and Interrupt together are stronger than Concentration on it's own, because Deflection (while not mathematically related to Concentration) reduces effective enemy Interrup against Deflection attacks.

Weapon balance. I have a pretty simple idea that theoretically should work, but I need Matt's help to prove it as usual Yeah but that doesn't happen in PE

Be careful there though. My reservation about this is because Stamina can be healed, it will be pretty trivial on it's own. Sure that might reduce your party's total DPS due to requiring more constant heal actions, but not by much. Not really because all Concentration does on it's own is prevent a bit of DPS reduction. To make it valuable you'd need to do one of two (bad) things - make interrupts occur all the time, which would make bonus Interrupt a bit pointless, or make the duration longer, which in my opinion would feel crappy, and isn't in the spirit of the IE games either. YMMV.

Edit: Also looks like you're staggering the Attribute system or something, to not be based on D&D like points - this is probably a good idea as the current point buy system makes Racial and Cultural attribute bonuses pretty trivial. Another idea is you could make Interrupts based on Attack Resolutions and Defenses or something. So like Attack Resolution roll, and then the bonus you have in Interrupt and Concentration are tallied (Attribute, Item, Buff etc) and then if the Interrupt is higher than the total of ([Accuracy+Interrupt] - [Defense+Concentration]) - a hit reaction is played. That may be exactly what you're proposing though. That could also still work in our system too, because then the characters/units that invest the extra points into Perception and Resolve are the ones that will have a pretty clear understanding of the bonus they get from their Interrupt and Concentration. That's the problem with the Interrupt system at the moment, it's very difficult for the player to evaluate. I personally think that Might and Constitution are fine as they are. The healing benefit from Might will effectively reduce your Health because no healing is free. I also think that Stamina and Health together is really easy to understand, not sure if decoupling it would be worth it to be honest because Stamina can be healed. Health cannot. Over the course of the adventuring day Health is simply more valuable all the time (to me anyway).

Matt was the one who was able to produce the statistics, I was like you and had the 'gut feelings', but algebraic relations are not my strength, so I asked for help. Could you provide a clearer explanation than that? Agreed. Funny how we came to the same conclusion, how did you reach your 2% just out of interest? I imagine likely due to the same reason we did, due to the DT system. I'm okay with either. It was actually you who got me more used to the idea that any point in an attribute should have a benefit, and over time I began to see that there's not really a difference. The only thing to consider is that the negative scores have that negative psychological effect on people, but it probably would be better suited to the D&D audience. I'm not 100% sure how I feel about it, but I don't think it matters to me ... probably just means I'll be less likely to drop anything that much below 10 I think a defensive stat would actually be welcome as it then creates, as we stated in our paper - an elegant and symmetrical system where you have two attributes that are offensive, two attributes that are defensive and two that are universally applicable to both offense and defense. That's just my opinion though, but it seems from the looks of it that many people here would also be interested in attribute-influenced Deflection as currently in the game, Accuracy scores of all units are generally ~equal or higher than the Deflection scores of all units, so a Deflection stat would be GREAT for increased survivability. I think that would be a good thing. Thanks for the quick response too

Well one of the goals of Josh's system is that it's kinda supposed to protect people from making bad characters. It's not that they don't matter, it's just that a 13 in every attribute will be a good build most likely, you just have to play to it. I haven't tried a build of 13 in all stats in the current system because Perception and Resolve are terrible, but in our proposed system I wouldn't be surprised if you could get away with it.

I will ask about them then. All good points, and your theory may be correct - perhaps you have found the class that the attribute would be one of the best for I don't think it would be OP though, as that speed comes at the cost of other attributes. You could probably make a pretty nice glass cannon build with that actually. That would be cool. But this is the type of stuff that I think our proposed system encourages. Whereas currently you just pump might, int and dex, maybe con if youre a tank, and go to town. It's really a non-choice every time.

That's why we went to all the effort. I know he listens when people make strong cases, so we thought we'd make a strong case. That's also why I addressed some of his personal reservations in the paper as well.

I actually don't think that would be the case, I think you have to activate the chant but it's like an aura, or a passive. The speed would not be affected by IAS I don't think. And if it is, they can always change it so it isn't.

Perception and Dexterity would probably be a fun build - would give you more chance to get interrupts, sure. Remember that interrupts reduce enemy DPS by 0.5s per Interrupt, I don't know if that's actually as good as simply just pumping Might instead, I'm not sure. We (well, Matt) haven't done that math as it's more complicated. I'm glad everyone's receptive to our proposal It would just be a shame if by release, the system didn't achieve the design goals properly as the ideal behind the system is really cool.

Because IAS has the greatest benefits in regards to non-damaging spells (as putting a point in Dexterity would be something that you are not spending on something else), I think that it would be most beneficial for Priests and Druids as possibly their secondary attribute. The reason we chose to suggest 2% per point is outlined in the paper - Josh Sawyer has reservations about increased action speed, 2% is not better than any of the other attributes outright, but it's still good. If the devs feel like investigating they could try 2.25%, 2.5% ... etc - but we think 2% is probably the best. Chanter invocations are limited by their chants, they have to sing a number of chants before an invocation can be cast, so the IAS would give more of a bonus to their weapon attacks than anything. It would be additive, as a part of the Action / (1+%IAS) formula, and would reduce the IAS part.

Actually I think Priests and Druids would benefit more from IAS than Chanters and Ciphers because Chanters and Ciphers spend a lot of time attacking, and Might is *always* better damage wise. Intellect is *always* better durations wise. What it does do is allow for different types of builds that focus on different things. I think a lot of people will benefit from this paper's analysis of the game's systems too - now you know what most of the attributes give per point (relatively anyway).

Resolve is like your determination and stuff right? You have so much guts and determination that you are a boss at defending your body and your mind ... however this does not mean that your body can defend you from Fortitude and Reflex attacks that are beyond it's capability. (Yes I had that answer pre-made for that exact question ) And to your second question, there really isn't anything else you can use without making up a new mechanic. We have just used the existing mechanics. IAS and Deflection would be OP as they are both major combat stats in the game.

Greetings, all. Today we’re going to talk about the Attribute system in Pillars of Eternity. Traditionally, CRPGs have suffered from certain issues with character attributes that PoE’s Lead Designer, Josh Sawyer, believes detract from the character creation and gameplay experience – namely, the problem of certain classes being pigeonholed into pumping certain attributes to function properly, and the existence of dump stats. To that end, the attribute system in Pillars of Eternity is designed with a few fundamental design goals in mind: All attributes should be useful (in some way) for every class. No dump stats – that is, no stat should be overwhelmingly better or worse than the others. These design goals aim to fix some systemic problems with the traditional D&D-based attribute systems. These design goals are admirable and worthwhile, and we believe that if realized, they will make Pillars of Eternity a richer and more rewarding experience. Unfortunately, the current attribute system fails to meet these goals. In particular, Perception and Resolve are simultaneously not useful for all classes/character archetypes, and are also very widely considered to be dump stats in most cases. However, this can be fixed. I (Sensuki) came up with a solution about two weeks ago and after many days consulting with Matt516 on the mathematical, logical, and balance issues with this solution, we have produced this paper. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29325716/Pillars%20of%20Eternity/Sensuki_Matt516_Attribute_Rework.pdf It contains an introduction (which the text above is an excerpt of) that outlines our proposed changes to the attribute system and three sections. The first section deals with the inherent issues with Perception and Resolve and examines why they are widely considered dump stats by many, and too confusing to bother with by others. The second and third section outline our proposed changes for improving the attribute system, backed by mathematical and logical arguments to declare their balance, in support of their implementation. We also include detailed suggestions for how the game can be rebalanced if these changes are implemented. Matt516 and I co-wrote this paper, and it represents 10 straight days of work on various calculations, logical and balance issues, and argument structuring. It has been an absolute pleasure to work with Matt516 on this, and it would not have been possible without his help. The original idea was mine - but his math and Excel skills, combined with his adept academic writing talent, were paramount in producing the quality of work we have been able to produce here. I'd like to ask you all, backers and developers alike, to carefully read our paper - not to make any pre-judgements about our solution before you have seen our arguments. We have striven to anticipate issues people may have with this design, and to provide our answers to them in advance. After you have finished reading through the paper, I'd like to ask you these three questions: Would you enjoy creating and playing characters under our proposed attribute system? Do you think our solution succeeds in meeting the primary design goals of the attribute system? Do you think this solution is an improvement over the current attribute system? Best Regards Sensuki (and Matt516)

They actually never used to have recovery time, it's something they added in earlier this year because the gameplay felt (by description) like Arcanum RTWP - aka really bad. I think recovery time is fine, could use to be shorter overall. One thing I haven't done enough of is play with good gear - magical items and stuff, and see how the beta encounters feel with those.

There's an issue with a few things there. mid-range length recovery time is more "IE" than Warcraft 3 & DotA, the issue could either be base unit deflection values, as currently they're all low - but then again, you're using an underpowered party in the beta the second is that maybe classes dont get enough health/stamina as a base/per level