Stiler

Why are you talking about police and groups? In most rpgs the main character/hero isn't part of any "group" or uniformed army but rather on their own adventure and they wear whatever they wish. Even if you were, I would think this idea would help you and not harm you. I mean think about it, if there are "Faction" armors or uniforms, you will likely find things better then that and then would have to either keep that old faction armor in your inventory taking up space if you wish to use it again for some reason (IE story elements where it would look more fitting) or just get rid of it and wear something outside of that faction armor look that you might like or it might fit within that storyline better.

I doubt that'd happen but even if it does, gaining a quest you'd most likely get a journal entry or something of note so you realize there's quest attached or some kind of clue, otherwise how could thee developers even expect someone to realize it's a quest attached? What if you sell that armor because the armor you already had had better stats? What if you destroy it because your inventory is full of better items?

If you're equally or more concerned with playing dress-up and house than you are actually playing the game then yes. Yes you are a part of that grand decline. I do not value this above ANY Gameplay drawback, I would put gameplay, dialogue, storyline far ahead of it. However to me, it seems like a VERY simple, very non-time consuming thing that could be done and allow for (some of us) the ability to control more how our character looks, which I do care about (but not as much as other things as mentioned above).

Role-playing is not playing dress-up. It's about stats, not about looks. You CAN'T play Gandalf (or some specific character), unless the game specifically casts you as Gandalf (that specific character). If you're playing it in "your head", then keep it there. If in your mind some random character you created is Gandalf then you can just imagine he's wearing his clothes as well. Or, if you think that the character you created should wear THIS but definitely not THAT, RPGs are not for you and you're the cause of the decline. Because, in real life someone actually sees you. In a computer game, nobody does. And if you think the people in the game care what you wear, you have serious troubles. Similarly, if you only play games to look cool and make screenshots to show to others, then again, please leave RPGs alone and play some dress-up game or something. RPGs are not about satisfying every little disturbed fantasy of everybody out there. Why can't people just leave them alone and go play Bioware dating-sims/dress-up games? RPG = stats. RPG =/= hats RPG's aren't merely about stats, I am not sure where you get your definition of role playing from. By that degree of reasoning then we shouldn't even bother having a character creator, just pick your race and everyone of that race look the same, no need for face/hair, etc choices nor is there a need for any armor or clothing variety, just have a base model that all looks the same, it will cut down on time spent designing (in your opinion) unnecessary visual things instead of focusing solely on stats, looks mean nothing. Also It's nothing about what an NPC thinks of me, I didn't even bring that up. It's about how I want my character to look, rather then being forced to use something I do not think fits my character or looks good on him. I am not expecting to be able to rp Gandalf, I was merely using it as an example of how a certain "look" is tied to a character. When people think of Gandalf they picture him with his robes, etc. and I'm the cause of the decline for rpgs? WHAT? You are just pulling things out of thin air and trying to insult me now. I fail to see how wanting to be able to have more control over how a character looks has ANY bearing on the decline of rpgs. I threw in my money on the PE kickstarter for a reason and I bought recent good rpgs like Dragon age: O (and then got shafted buying DAII, which was a major step back) and Witcher, etc. There's a reason a game like Skyrim has so many visual mods, even though it's a single player rpg, because people do care how their characters look, even if you may not. I quote the post from earlier in the thread from Epsilon Rose: Never fight back with a strawman. You know darn well nobody's saying they don't care about the overall visual aesthetic of the game. What most serious old-school gamers don't really give two flying beans about is playing dress up and house. Bethesda's forums are that-a-way ----> I like how you state serious old school gamers don't care about this, but older rpgs offered character creators and visual differences between armor. Genre's evolve, as rpgs have gotten more detailed graphically how a character looks has (logically) gotten to be more important as well. Just because older rpgs didn't have as highly customizable choices then doesn't mean they can't now, especially since it will be at a much higher resolution then those classic crpgs and (probably) offer a zoomable camera with 3d character models. I have played crpgs since the early 90's as a kid, just agree to disagree but don't say you represent all "old school rpgers" and anyone who likes how their own character looks wants to play dress up and house as though it's an insult. Computer rpgs are a visual experience, unlike PNP were you can just imagine it, you will be staring at your character throughout the entire game, so I would think you could understand how some of us would like to make our characters look as much as we want them to within the atmosphere/world of said game. Bethseda's TES is one of the highest selling rpgs for a reason, sure it's not an isometeric older style rpg (of which gameplay wise I prefer) but it has it's strong points and the modders are one of them with all the upgrades and things you can do with thei game.

How does how you look not have anything to do with role playing? It's Live Action Role Playing for a reason. If you want to roleplay as Gandalf, would you not want to >look< like gandalf? I dont' see how if it's "live action" role playing means what you look like matters but "Computer" role playing what you look like means nothing all of the sudden.

I went to see the FAQ thing, and it does look like static but zoomable is "probable." That's interesting; a better argument for ROI increase. The other arguments are then surrounding gear visuals in relation to gameplay (interaction mechanics, especially other cultures/factions). I don't like the idea of full-on cosmetic changes for this (like you change the look of a robe to plate) but rather something incremental like colors (BG/IWD did this). Crafting might work in the sense of specific additions adding specific special effects, but a crafting system is a whole other complex mechanism and there's already another thread dedicated to that. Ultimately, I'd still like to see certain gear and clothing race/culture/faction-specific with interaction consequences based on that. I assume if you had this it would only apply to the same item types (that's how it works in game sthat have it usually, like GW2). You can only make plate armor look like another piece of plate armor, not cloth or vice versa. You can't take a dagger and make it look like a two handed greataxe or anything. I'm only suggesting that you be allowed to take the item of the same type and make it appear like another item of the same type. So if you find a plate armor you like the look of, but outlevel it and find a much better piece of plate armor and don't like how it looks, then you can keep the look of your old armor but be able to use the stats from the new one so you aren't penalized for wanting to keep that look. No taking daggers and changing them to staves, or cloth to plate, etc. That would likely interrupt all sorts of things (IE daggers using a greataxe model, the combat animations an dthings would look really really off).

Just a STR requirement? To use effectively, armor would require training (skill/feat). After all, it takes traingin to learn how to most efficiently move in armor, how to position yourslf for best protection/deflection. Also to build up stamina and get accustomed to wearing it. Of course, anyone can equip armor if strong enough, but wihout proper training, it's not as effective. Without training you'd get less protection, bigger armor check penalty and bigger fatigue drain. The thing about this is games usually ignore how armor actually works. Plate armor is less of a burden to wear then chainmail, yet most games put plate armor as the "heaviest" and highest skill to wear, meanwhile they put chain in medium armor with leather which it's not like at all. As far as training goes it would make sense if everyone had to spend it, I mean while should warriors/arcane warriors have to invest in a "plate armor training" if mages don't have to invest in anything to wear their magical robes and such? If plate armor somehow blocks spell casting or penalizes it as it usually does it makes sense that cloth allows casting for some reason and they'd have to get used to it somehow. I don't think you understand what I mean. by making armor have a str requirement doesn't fix anything or help anything. I'm not asking to take a "mage" and put him in armor. I'm asking for a melee based fighter that uses magic, has skills buitl around this (rather then mage skills that are usually range based). Make the class use str as their mage abilities also instead of the normal "wis/int" that mages use so he isn't penalized for having to get both str + wis/int." I disagree with a concept of a fighter, who casts spells on equal level as a mage, but is more combat/buff oriented. It will be more broken than a cleric from 3.5 ed DnD... I also do not see how building up a body mass would help you learn new spells? Fighting - physical attributes Casting spells - non-physical attributes Wizards will have enough array of spells for you to freely chose from. So if you want to have a fighter using spells, just pick a wizard, pick combat perks, distribute evenly between str/con/dex and whatever mental stats are there. Wear armor of your choice, as long as you are strong enough to wear it, and cast whatever spells you like for this particular swordmage type. The game will have limited number of classes, and designing some archetypes should be a priority. The archetypes themselves will practically fill the list of available classes. Should you want to make a fighting mage or a casting fighter, just mutliclass or balance out your stats accordingly... The idea you gave (all abilities of fighter + magic deriven from str) is just an invitation to a min/max build that can break the balance of a game. In each game, where there is some tactical level of play, there should be trade-offs. Brawl vs magic is one of them. You're still not understanding me. I don't want a mage in armor (who's usually geared toward fighting with range spells at a distance) nor do I want a warrior (who usually has no magic). I would like to see a melee-focused fighter with some magic ablities of their own, geared toward that playstyle. I'm not asking to take away the mage spells and use them while wearing armor and having it be the isame as a mage. The class itself would be geared toward this, it wouldn't have to be a balancing act between "mages and warriors" but a class specific thing that they could balance out.

I like it fine in LotRO, where MMOs are extremely gear-based and content exclusive, so I can save myself money. I've never gotten into SP crafting systems because they typically just fill my inventory with a bunch of stuff. At most, I stick with maybe a couple basic potions and enchanting gear, if it seems like it would make a substantial difference. If Obs were to implement some kind of crafting system in PE, I'd want it to be very easy on inventory (not just taking up space/weight but few items to sort). In the known info thread it is said that the game camera will be static, but likely zoomable. Also a mix of 2d/3d with character models being 3d iirc. Also some of you thinking of BG/IWD, keep in mind this is a newer game, the resolution will be larger and textures likely much more detailed. So looking at old pics of BG or such is not really a good way to see what kind of look you will notice as far as characters and their clothing goes. A warrior would use armor made specifically for him, not armor looted. However this is a video game, and video games unlike real life don't use the same rules. Also by your logic that would mean everyone, even mages, would wear plate armor, since it's the best armor at protecting you and far better then cloth, leather, chainmail, so everyone would wear plate and no one would wear anything else by that logic. Also from the standpoint of it being our character, do you think it's not an rp feature to want to control their look? To want to roleplay as say, a thief who wears normal lookign leather armor that "blends" in with an average look instead of wearing that new +10 leather armor with a skull pauldron that looks like he walked out of a Bela Lugosi flick? He can't though unless he's ok with being under geared. Think about iconic characters, throughout gaming and literature , etc. They usually have a certain "look" about them hat's designed for their character. When people rp a character they picture them using certain armor, weapons. and having a "look" about them,r ather it be certain type of armor they wear (or lack thereof) or weapons they use. Take Drizzt for example, a popular D&D character from RA Salvatore. He is known look-wise by his dual swords (Icingdeath and Twinkle) and his green cloak that he wears. While years he will improvise and use other weapons if need be this is what he prefers to use. Now if someone wanted to make a character like this, and found a green cloak and two schmitars in the game and got that "look" down, you think it's un-rp for them to be able to keep that "look" and instead have to be either undergeared or have to use something that makes them break that look that they wanted and say it's a better rp experience? I'm not seeing that, to me that goes against rp imo. Also I'd like to come out and clarify here, I mean no disrespect to anyone and if I came off harsh in any of my replies I'm sorry. I'd like to keep things civil and respectful of each other, not have this thread or forum turn into a place where people have disdain for anyone but rather can agree to disagree and move on peacefully while still enjoying the conversing and dialogue between each other in other posts even if they don't agree on other ones.

No. Can you elaborate? It pretty much defeats the purpose of designing different looks to equipment. As others have said on this thread, the look of the armor is part of the game world. What if there is a great suit of armor that gives dex bonus but makes you look like a dandy? What if NPC's react to it in the game and make comments? It creates a major disconnect if you look as if you look as if you're wearing a completely different armor. Plus its one more vanity feature that many of us think is pandering and waste of time when more important things can be added to the game How does affect the developers designing armor??? There's no point to it that woudl make the developers design armor differently somehow? It merely allows the player to choose which armor they like the look of and to keep that look if they so wish to, it doesn't meant he developers would have to make less armor or design it differently somehow. As far as dandy armor and npc's commenting on your armor. It could simply apply to which armor you have visually equipped. So if you like the dandy armor and wear it they coment, but if you use the stats and have another armor visually showing they wouldn't comment about it.

No. Can you elaborate?

Wow I get up this morning and.... For those of you who recently posted against the idea, why? How is this an idea AGAINST rpgs and the bane of bad design choices? How is this promoting "crap" designs??? It's not promoting ANY Designs, it's merely to give the PLAYER a choice of what they want their character to look like and not be forced into something they don't want. It's a bad thing to allow the player who wants to rp their character with a certain look??? To me it seems to be AGAINST The very idea of rpgs to tell a player "You like this piece of armor, it fits your character better but you can't kepe using it because you've outlv'd it and must now use this fruity looking spiky armor!" Can any of you explain to me why you think this choice is "Ruining rpgs" or going against some old tradition of rpgs? Being forced to have a look that you don't want, that might not fit how you want your character to look. IE lets say you have a barbarian style character and like the lower lv armor that looks "less" full knight plate covering and more open gladiator style, but at higher lv's that armor doesn't exist at all so throughotu the entire game you are forced to use the low lv armor and be extremely underpowered (which really isn't viable) or use armor that makes your character look like a classic late 15th century knight instead of the look you want. It's a simple choice, that no one is forced to make if they dont' want to in their single player game. It isn't a resource hog and wouldn't take a ton of resources to make on top of that. Also I fail to see how this is a "Cheat?" How the heck is it cheating? Do you think if they ad some kind of post-character creation barbershop where you could change your characters hair that'd be cheating as well? It would be quite funny if the high armor was made bright pink with giant spikes all over it and had far better stats then anything else anywhere near that lv and those of you against the idea would then understand the point of it. Never seen so many people blindly against an idea for more customization in an RPG, it just boggles my mind how anyone can equate this to being some kind of bane of design/current rpgs when it's there to give more choice to the player rather then take it away. If any of you play D&D how would you feel if the DM forced your character to look a certain way and didn't allow you to make your character how you wanted? Also this could be an option, so those of you so against it because it'd somehow ruin your immersion could turn it off and start a game and it wouldn't exist so you wouldn't be tempted to use it when you do get stuck wearing something you really don't like the look of.

I would think it would be extremely cheap actually and very non-time consuming as well All it is doing is telling the game "the player is wearing this item visually, but using the stats from this item." That's it, There's no special things they really have to do but simply tell the game to visually show this "model" while using the stats from this equipment. all they would really have to do is code for that and put a little UI work into having it in the game. At this point, I can assume you have no programming experience whatsoever, whether through a relation or classes or having done it yourself. Adding a UI element and a final visual check is all the end--this doesn't take into account programming for triggers and limits and 'what happens when player drags this to there', things that lead up to the final visual the end-user sees. And you conveniently didn't address my first two points, nor the fourth. Try doing that first. Because mine are arguments that this would be a waste of resources for the ROI. This thread is more along the lines of "but it wouldn't affect you and I want it so it should be done." The problem is that with poor ROI, in a non-AAA-funded KS game, wasting effort for something so purely cosmetic that doesn't relate to combat mechanics, story content, NPC content, or setting would affect other players. You'd be better off begging for a stretch goal, but even then, the game purpose in PE is so nonexistent, I'd rather Obsidian work on just nice-looking gear to begin with. There are other cosmetic issues like spell effects, but those are tied so closely to combat mechanics and quite visible in 2D iso that it makes sense to get picky about them. I didn't reply to each point of yours because I saw no need to. No I am not a programmer so if you could maybe explain how simply telling the game "use this visual model but stats from this model" is somehow extremely complicated and time consuming to do because i'm not understanding how it's such a huge task. I understand it would take "some" resources, but I don't see how it'd take a ton of time/work like you make it seem, as though you'd need an entire team of programmers, animators, writers and everyone to drop the ball and do it all for months on end to have something so simple. Heck Bethesda developers were able to develop in a weeks time for skyrim: 1. A season based system 2. Spears 3. Flow based water shaders and many other things, all of which would seem to me a heck of a lot more complicated then simply programming a simple "use this visual appearance." Also I'm not saying "IT MUST BE IN" It's simply a suggestion for something that (to me) doesn't seem like it'd take a ton of work to have in and would be great for people that actually care about how our characters look. This is a role playing game last I checked, and part of the fun of roleplaying is playing how you want, both gameplay wise and cosmetically. One of the main reasons I'd like this feature in is because in many rpgs the higher lv up you go the more exotic armor gets, and this usually equates to big spikes and other things that don't fit what I'd like my character to look like. Even if armor isn't too abstract like that it'd still be nice to have my character, who I make, look how I wish him to look. One of the main points of an rpg is choice, choice how you develop your character, choice how you respond in dialogues and play said character, and choice how you outfit that character. Why you think it's such a waste to be able to visually cater your character how you wish is beyond me.

That was a very nice post, way to be constructive. Did you not see the idea's about having it actually affect gameplay with branching style tree's to the spells? Also I don't see how making a new spell effect would take away from the writers task, you do know that developers don't all do everything? Writers don't usually do animation and artist don't usually write, etc. This was just an idea, if you don't think having the same spell at the max level should look any different then a noob mage lv 1 spell when they don't know anything then ok, but no need to be so sarcastic in your tone and demeaning.

I would think it would be extremely cheap actually and very non-time consuming as well All it is doing is telling the game "the player is wearing this item visually, but using the stats from this item." That's it, There's no special things they really have to do but simply tell the game to visually show this "model" while using the stats from this equipment. all they would really have to do is code for that and put a little UI work into having it in the game.

How does it rob any item of style??? It is the PLAYERS choice, you are not forced to use it or not. Items can still have unique looks, and if you pick up a new item and simply prefer your older items looks but the new item has far better stats, you can choose to keep the look you have and still get the stats from the new item. like in GW2 you can have a trade off so that if you use a transmutation stone or item to transfer the stats to the look of the other it destroys the other item (so basically you "Combine" them and only get one item instead of keep the other and being able to sell it or anything). Items can still have descriptions, but obviously if the player chooses to use the "look" of another item then the description of said item will be kept witht he one they use the look of, not the one that they simply take the stats from.

Yes that is a great idea. Like after you level up fireball it has a branch off. One way allows you to shoot out multiple fireballs for a bigger range, but the other choice allows for a type of prolonged "fire ray" type of thign or something like that. Could have multiple paths so you could really make it quite different depending on how you choose to lv it up.

In a perfect world they'd be able to write all they wanted and have it all voiced. If they can't for budget reasons though I'd hope they at least do have voices for major dialogue/story elements and other bits here and there. If they have it limited perhaps only the companions you get + major story npc's speak and your usual npc's (quest givers, town npc's, etc) don't and just use text as normal.

I have never really played an rpg that felt like they did shapeshifting that well. I mean to me it's one of the most awesome sounding types of classes, being able to shapeshift. However usually you are stuck with cliche animals and don't get to actually shapeshift for any story elements or gameplay changes. IN your example, being able to turn into a rat and sneak around. I'd love if they did indeed have a shapeshifting class, if they offered you a lot of non-combat things to do with it, from different ways to complete a quest to getting into area's other classes couldn't (Ie shapeshifting into a flying animal to get to a high up place). What I think wold be nice is if they had various animals to shapeshift into which you could level up in specifically and each of them had their own skill tree's, so you could make them how you want that specific shapeshift to be.

I don't think you understand what I mean. by making armor have a str requirement doesn't fix anything or help anything. I'm not asking to take a "mage" and put him in armor. I'm asking for a melee based fighter that uses magic, has skills buitl around this (rather then mage skills that are usually range based). Make the class use str as their mage abilities also instead of the normal "wis/int" that mages use so he isn't penalized for having to get both str + wis/int."

I would like to see a magic based melee fighter who can wear plate armor. I'm not talking about a "paladin" like character who's usually a healer/buffbot for the party but a combat focused magic using warrior. Who has magic abilities to use while not being crap at melee fighting with armor on. Most rpgs don't offer that, you either have to choose "mage with pointy hat/robes" or "non-magic using generic warrior." I want a type of class that has all sorts of neat "magic" abilities but also is good at melee fighting. Like say maybe he can imbue his weapon with flame/frost dmg, and he can "shift" through enemies to dodge an attack or get around them for a surprise or cast a quick spell to steal life from his enemy or cast an aoe frost spell to coause enemies to freeze/trip on it.

I have never used reddit either, how do you post a comment? I registered, and when I typed in a comment the only thing I can click on is "save" but that doesn't seem to have posted the msg...I see no "post/submit" button anywhere near the area you type in.... edit - I tried again and it worked , weird.

How does this hurt you though? Does it really seem like a "great" thing to be forced to either be underpowered stat wise while wearing a set of armor you really really like, or having to ditch it for armor that you might think looks "fruity?" I see no downside to it, no one is forcing you to do it, it'd be a choice. If you like going through new equipment and changing your like you wouldn't have to use this.

Sorry for a new topic so soon but I thought of this and wanted to get it out before I forget. In many rpg games when you level up a skill , for example say a generic mage fireball, it usually just enhances the damage of that spell. I for one would love it if instead of simply an increase in damage and that max level fireball spell looking just like your starting lv 1 fireball, it looked vastly different, more powerful, and added depth. For example, at level one a fireball looks like this: Then at max level the same spell looks like....well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsnL6gmGOZA#t=1m08s (ok maybe not THAT huge, but you get the point). There could even be added affects on abilities. For example, the lv 1 fireball has no "splash" damage, at a higher level it has splash damage, then at max level it also "pulls" enemies and objects within a certain range into where you cast the fireball and then after a few seconds it creates an explosion and does more damage to any objects it pulled into it. This can apply to melee abilities as well, not just magic things. For example a shield bash. At level 1 of the ability you just have a foreward knock with your shield and cause the guy to stumble back. Then at a higher level the bash stuns, and at the highest level that bash ability knocks them down. Basically I think it'd be nice if the skills had more depth, both visually as well as gameplay wise as you leveled them up. A low level character who uses the same ability when he's max level should feel/look different imo.

I'm sure any rpg fan has had this happen to them. You find some awesome looking armor/weapon you like the look of, then as you get a higher lv you gradually outgrow that equipment and are forced to change into new equipment but you do not like your new armor/weapon look. So you are forced to make a choice, neither of which is "good" (imo) for the player. You have to choose to keep the look you like, but be penalized for doing so, or you have to wear new equipment you might find visually unappealing. Now in this day and age a few games are understanding people would like to be able to keep a certain "look" of armor or weapons they like and have done this in various ways. The most recent example being Guild Wars 2, where you can find "transmutation" stones which you use to transfer the "stats" of an item onto another which you like the skin/model of better. I would love it if PE allowed us a way to do this. Be it through a simple paper doll interface when equipping our characters where we can simply have two "equipped" items and a simple checkbox below each set that has the options "Show these equipped items/Use these items stats." So you can choose which look you want but separately choose which stats you want to use or by items a la GW2 style. To me this seems like a win/win for everyone. It pleases rpers who want a specific look for their character and also casual fans or just think a certain item "looks cooler" and doesn't wanna change it.

To me, finding a rare/legendary item , be it a weapon or piece of armor, is far better "Rewarding" when it's more of a secret and not a "random" loot drop. For example, lets say within the game there are various "books" and things you can read. Now you are reading a book and within the book it talks about a once great fallen hero and his magnificent suit of unique armor that gave him power. Throughout reading the book you are given clues, it talks about where the hero was believed to have fallen in battle, it gives you a more detailed clue, something along the lines of "Utop the highest ridge the hero was thrust with a spear and fell to his death below into a gorge.". You then go to that area it mentions and look for that area, you find this large ridgeline at it's highest point and travel directly below it. you then have a little hunting around it and find a small opening at the base where you can move a rock and enter a long hidden cavern. Upon entering it you travel the tunnels and discover that the fall did not kill him because of his armor's powers, however he was trapped within the caverns. You see various paintings nad things along the walls that he made trying to leave behind his story for anyone that found the place and at the end you find his body sitting in ia makeshift stone chair still wearing his armor. To me, finding something that way is far more "fulfilling" of a way to find some truly great item then it is to just roll the dice and have it randomly drop.