BruceVC

Very early days, I have just finished Saudi Arabia and I am now in Rome

So it was not no-brainier decision? Which is definitely so, when you are familiar with her already. What i tried to tell is that same situations observed from different points of view (different experience) could lead to much more or much less obvious decisions even with same morality in mind. And personal relationships is often the thing that matters. Romances only promote this to higher extent and add more meaning to player's actions. That's why i love Witcher - everything is up to who you like and emotionally/morally attached to, you understanding why are you doing this. And that's why i don't like FO:NV as much - I don't care about anyone here, there is simply no motivation to not to settle in some remote village and shoot everyone who approaches. Pronounced with pathos: It has be done for...!! What? Revenge? - don't care anyhow. Abstract Greater Good? - sounds funny, but i don't care also. Exp? - uh, well... ok. Games without strong emotional connection feel just empty. Romances are good and reliable tool (true for majority of players, as all polls depict) to create more ties for player with a world, to make him actually care about the world around. Well written romance could be a good addition to any role-playing game. Only if they are not purpose by themselves. SGray my friend I agree completely with your post. I absolutely believe that Romance\Sex adds to the depth and realism of an RPG. No arguments here As someone else mentioned "an RPG without Romance makes the characters like emotionless Robots ", and who wants to play an impassive robot? *shudders* Sorry man. EDIT: I understand the concept but, no not interested. Your entire example is tailored to a certain audience. Why would she be dressed up in chainmail bikini? Why does she have to be hot? Why is she imprisoned by the family, is the family entirely good? How long has she been a prisoner? Would she not be given a prisoner's outfit or would the family keep her half-naked in their basement? EDIT EDIT: How long have I known the family and the prisoner before the house started burning? Is this something the prisoner is yelling at me as I'm walking by? "If you save me you can lay with me!!!!" or what? How much time did I have, up until the time of the house burning, to assess and gain a relationship with these people? Osvir I appreciate your logical rebuttal to my concept but don't you think you are over- analyzing the scenario. Remember its a fantasy RPG, not everything is going to make sense? The thing is I hope that P:E will be well-written, and for something to be well written it needs to have some sense. I also dislike that argument as it seems to be the "lazy last resort" argument. Couldn't you at least try to paint a scenario where your idea is in it's prime triumph where it makes sense? Where a burning house doesn't appear out of nowhere with a hot dark elf prisoner and a family in peril, but with some history and background to it. What's the agenda with the family? What's the agenda with the prisoner? But most importantly (like some said "I'd be at the bar and gamble all my money away") what is it to your character? It needs some sort of "entrance" to matter or be important for your character and not a "troll event" from out of the improvised blue. EDIT: Probably not, otherwise you wouldn't have brought out the "it's a fantasy RPG" card. Osvir I use to DM for many years, so trust me when I say it would be really easy for me to create a story or context for the example I mentioned. But I don't believe that would change the anti-Romance sentiment. Anyway this was Monte's example, I was just highlighting why moral choices and Romance\Sex options can be interchangeable. They don't have to have this dichotomous relationship.

You can say f***k Bethesda but you don't want to say that to there army of very competent lawyers. Lets hope this doesn't create a legal issue. I doubt it will

Hi Guys Okay I am really into this game now. Its great fun, I still haven't mastered the art of Grenades but my combat strategy is effective enough where I don't have to use grenades. What I do now is generally try to avoid blasting my way through unless I have no option. I use the silent kill to avoid attention. How long did the game take you to complete. I am enjoying it and want to take my time?

Exactly. Brought back some memories. Some black-skinned, clearly evil and murderous chick tied to a pole and a crowd of lawful citizens waiting for the the start of righteous barbecue. Goody-good character, hesitating about slaughtering the whole crowd if he walked through BG1 with her? Not really. If he not? But thats a good and applicable example. I never played BG1 but I still saved Viconia in BG2 and ended up having a relationship with her. She turned out not to be that evil and in the summary at the end of BG2 she had my children and we were happy. The crowd deserved what they got

*shudders* Sorry man. EDIT: I understand the concept but, no not interested. Your entire example is tailored to a certain audience. Why would she be dressed up in chainmail bikini? Why does she have to be hot? Why is she imprisoned by the family, is the family entirely good? How long has she been a prisoner? Would she not be given a prisoner's outfit or would the family keep her half-naked in their basement? EDIT EDIT: How long have I known the family and the prisoner before the house started burning? Is this something the prisoner is yelling at me as I'm walking by? "If you save me you can lay with me!!!!" or what? How much time did I have, up until the time of the house burning, to assess and gain a relationship with these people? Osvir I appreciate your logical rebuttal to my concept but don't you think you are over- analyzing the scenario. Remember its a fantasy RPG, not everything is going to make sense?

* sigh * Yes, having no bananas is exactly like having no moral choices, because it takes away from the experience. Re-read your post, forensically, and try to tease out a few micrograms of sense. No? Me neither. Example: OMG. That building is burning. I can only save either (a) the family sleeping upstairs or (b) the prisoner locked in the cellar who's as evil as sin. But, the prisoner has vital information that might allow me to save more lives. But I can only save one... Now, it's not the greatest example. But at least there's a moral choice and there's no romance. Da-daaaa. As for "it takes away from the experience..." Two things: (1) Please figure out the romance ratio of the precursor titles to P:E. 5%? If I'm being generous. (2) The experience? Waaaa! Don't break my immersion!!! Waaaa!!! If you like dating sims then come out and say it, don't dress it up in terms of moral choices and immersion. Feh. But Monte you are missing the obvious correlation with your analogy and Romance\Sex. Allow me to elaborate OMG. That building is burning. I can only save either (a) the family sleeping upstairs or (b) the prisoner locked in the cellar who's as evil as sin. But, the prisoner has vital information that might allow me to save more lives. But I can only save one..." However the prisoner is a hot female Dark Elf in bikini chainmail armour who has promised you sordid sexual fantasies if you free her.... And the family aren't attractive at all...who do you save? So there can be links between Romance\Sex and moral choices?

So does having no evil/morally ambiguous options. Having no option to do anything bad detracts from the experience of doing something good, in my opinion. You might not believe me, but that's exactly my point. When I suggested removing the evil options I was being obviously sarcastic. Or so I thought. But yes, having no romance is exactly like having no moral choices, because it takes away from the experience. Hence, you can't simply leave this stuff to modders. Nude skins is what they are good at, not romance. I like the argument that not having Romance\Sex in the game makes your character feel like an emotionless robot, and we aren't playing a Sci-Fi RPG so what would be a the point of that? Nice one

Nice post, this is one of the reasons I really like these forums. You guys have a legacy and are a real community. I also appreciate the honest and fascinating insights people share around there lives. I am a refugee from the Mortal Online forums, I use to frequent the Off Topic section there for several years. The game never really succeeded and the community got smaller and smaller but the people on Off Topic stayed on. Eventually sections of Off Topic got closed off to any non-paying member and more people left. So for me it was time to find a new forum that was game related but had an interesting Off Topic section. These Obsidian forums have become one of my new hangouts, and the community is a big part of why I come back

I have just bought the following games on the Interplay special. I should be busy Fallout 2, Sacrifice, MDK 2, Die by the Sword + Expansion,Kingpin: Life of Crime,Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader ,Fallout, MDK and Messiah

I have just started Alpha Protocol and I am really enjoying it so far, I just need to get use to a few things around gameplay.

What The ****? Why is obsession called dedication? That guy clearly has a problem, there is nothing to admire. If I was bioware, I would be happy that there are people like him paying me, for whatever **** I throw at them. Well end of the day this boils down to a completely subjective opinion of the guys behavior. I don't know enough of the context to say he is obsessed. So I prefer to say he is dedicated. In life I tend to see the glass as half full. I cannot see any positive spin to a man trying to discover what a fictional alien character's sweat and urine smell and taste like. Because he's sexually attracted to the character and wants his sexual fantasies to become more vivid. Would you feel the same way if he was trying to figure out what the sweat and urine of a female celebrity smell like? What about just some random woman he spotted on the street? I don't think you'd call it admirable dedication so much as perverse mental illness. This is the opinion of someone with a long and storied history with mental illness. Okay I have to admit when you put it that way I agree his comments are disturbing, you make a convincing argument. But you do agree that his opinions and research doesn't represent all of the people on BSN, so he is an exception and extreme case?

Hi Guys Thanks for the tips. Okay I need some input. I admit I am not very good at these types of games, or rather I take time to get use to them. A couple of points I am now comfortable with hacking and other mini-games I am battling to use my grenades effectively. I am confused by what is the quickest way to activate them? I normally select them from the Inventory but it doesn't always seem to select the right grenade when I need it. I also found that using the C keyboard option brings up the Grenade screen but that then vanishes so I have to use Inventory to select. This is obviously a slower option. I noticed in the Safe House I bought loads of ammo for my pistol and assault rifle but when my second mission started I didn't have the amount of ammo I bought? Is there a limit you can have on a mission. I bought loads of ammo because on the first mission I ran out of ammo Finally I understand that this is a stealth game but is it wrong to just "shoot your way through the missions" I am enjoying the game thoroughly and it makes a nice change from my true love of gaming, fantasy RPG

What The ****? Why is obsession called dedication? That guy clearly has a problem, there is nothing to admire. If I was bioware, I would be happy that there are people like him paying me, for whatever **** I throw at them. Well end of the day this boils down to a completely subjective opinion of the guys behavior. I don't know enough of the context to say he is obsessed. So I prefer to say he is dedicated. In life I tend to see the glass as half full. , I doubt it. PE will never have the level of Romance that will draw this type of Romance personality.

Lol, okay some of these BSN comments about Romance are really hilarious. I do find them extreme but it does show a real commitment to the game and I admire that. However you guys are using these examples as a reason Romance\Sex is a bad idea in PE, well I assume you are? But I think we all agree that the Bioware implementation of Romance\Sex is not what the majority of pro-Romance people want in PE. So they just made me chuckle but hasn't detracted from the overall objective of Romance\Sex in PE As someone who has personally delved into the BSN, I can tell you that these "gems" are not the outliers or exceptions to rational discussions. But my point was in posing the question, did romances in video games turn people into these.... things, or did romances in video games attract an existing group of troglodytes out of their caves? Either way, the boding. It does not go well. You have asked some good questions. I think that people that take Romance\Sex this seriously always had it in them and Bioware just provided the medium. But I still maintain that these people are the fringe element at BSN. I have played all the various Bioware games and made sure my characters participated in Romance and enjoyed it but I never took it this far. I am sure most people on these forums are in the same category as me. Finally I have to admire someone who is prepared to spend his RL time to create a semblance of realism around the sweat of a virtual character. I know most people will see this as weird but it does show dedication. If you were Bioware surly you would be proud of creating a game that has so much impact on peoples lives?

Wow, that sounded like an amazing and therapeutic camping trip. How far is Mississippi from where you live. I have always wanted to go to Mississippi , I have a very romanticized view of the state from reading Tow Sayer and Huckleberry Finn when I was young. I use to dream about the majestic Mississippi river and camping and fishing all day. And that fish meal sounded delicious, simple but perfect under the circumstances

Lol, okay some of these BSN comments about Romance are really hilarious. I do find them extreme but it does show a real commitment to the game and I admire that. However you guys are using these examples as a reason Romance\Sex is a bad idea in PE, well I assume you are? But I think we all agree that the Bioware implementation of Romance\Sex is not what the majority of pro-Romance people want in PE. So they just made me chuckle but hasn't detracted from the overall objective of Romance\Sex in PE

Personally I am really happy with these poll results, only 8 % of people don't want any form of Romance\Sex. But lets be generous and include option 3 (boring friendship) in the anti-Romance numbers. We get to about 36 % at this stage that are opposed to Romance\Sex. I hope this finally puts to rest the age-old debate that the PE community doesn't want Romance\Sex in the game. Once again this poll proves unequivocally it does

It's a Multi-Choice poll Whoops I also didn't realize either, I voted for Romance and Sex

Interesting poll, I voted for Sex but I also think Romance( Option 1) needs to be part of the necessary courting process in the game. I hope the poll results don't become skewered because of this.

Holy Smoke, I didn't realize the Marine Corp was that old. Happy B-day

This is good idea but we know already that the response would be a resounding yes as we saw from various polls. So that would create a dilemma, " what would all you anti-romance say and debate in your spare time" And that would be unfortunate as I enjoy these Romance\Sex discussions

As long as the discussion is not about game romance. Nice post Op. I have noticed increased vitriol around some of the comments in the various Romance\Sex posts from people against Romance\Sex. But apart from that I think these forums are generally cordial

I agree with this, the only game I really wanted to play on PC that was console only has been Red Dead Redemption

Unfortunately I am the master of bad hangovers, I have worked out 2 things on how to mitigate them Shooters generally increase the likelihood of them (but Tequila is so festive I can't resist) If you drink about 1 liter of water before you go to sleep you can avoid most hangovers ( the problem is I sometimes forget to drink the water before sleeping ) You see, by taking electrolytes you don't need a litre of water. Now I am an old fart ™ a litre would have me up pissing every hour. Interesting, and when you say electrolytes what exactly do you mean? Edit : Okay I see the photo. I get it