BruceVC

That too! Actually, DA:O is the last Bioware game I played. I don't remember any explicit sex scenes. ...And I missed all the ME games and whatnot. I think the previous Bioware game I played prior to DA:O was NWN, and I don't remember any explicit sex scenes in that either. I like your posting style Cant, you always seem to be so controlled and never get personal. I'm glad you came back to the forums And also something else that some of you guys may not realize is just what a formidable debating opponent Gromnir is, I feel I need to mention this because sometimes he is underestimated. When I first started chatting to Gromnir I focused on his usage of english and "couldn't really understand what he was saying" ( which isn't true..people just say this when they are frustrated by his logic ) but anyway he has had the most fascinating, difficult ( compared to most of us) and eventful life and his views are shaped by his life experiences. Thats a very relevant reason for some peoples perspective. Anyway Gromnir always debates from a position of logic and intellectualism, he is not like me as sometimes I joke and rely on a more esoteric and nebulous debating approach...my approach isn't wrong but its sometimes misunderstood Anyway I admit I am drawn to intellectualism but I'm not being sycophantic towards Gromnir I just want to say he often makes the most sense because he can always back up what he says The only "criticism " I have around some of Gromnirs posts is he doesn't suffer fools and sometimes when he really wins a debate he makes the person he is debating resent him because the person feels really inadequate because he was really proven to be wrong Finally Gromnir had idea I was going to say this and definitely doesn't need me to vindicate his views but I made this post because I notice sometimes people say things like " Gromnir is babbling and no one has a clue what he is going on about " The reality is Gromnir makes loads of sense if people actually bother to understand what he is saying

Keyrock I may be missing something but it seems to me you don't want us to discuss Bioware anymore..if thats the case then just say so. I prefer brutal honesty I get that stuff in Random Video Game News will go off on tangents, that happens, but it's usually 3 or 4 posts, then we get back to game news. This has gone on for multiple pages now. Look, I've been a member of this forum for 2 1/2 years and in my time here this argument has happened at least a dozen times, likely a lot more. I've even engaged in it once or twice in the past. I could understand if someone new had initiated this and there was a fresh perspective, but this is literally the same exact argument involving the same exact people as has been had time and time and time again. Frankly, it's ****ing annoying. I hear you Keyrock, I know you aren't unreasonable The only counter point I would make is surely people can still discuss other things while we discuss Bioware? Its not like we are forcing people to join our discussion? And Bioware is about gaming news?

Second point isn't really holding well with the first and third. Isn't 'objectifying' a bad thing, as you lot always espouse ? In any case, Bruce being okay with strippers in real life as he wants to creepily make friends with them or something and him being opposed to video game ones is just a little inconsistent on the face of it, but the ends from both are different to him. So I guess it is ok. You guys must not misunderstand me, or course I go to strip clubs to see beautiful women dance but that doesn't mean I can't be genuinely friendly to them Also the music I like is only played at a certain number of clubs so you often meet the same people and loads of strippers like the same music so its not like I won't see them again outside the stripclub

So basically how you view people is entirely on you. Love them, hate them. It's not the strippers' responsibility to teach you about women. And likewise the makers of, I don't know, Dead or Alive are not your mom, they have no responsibility to teach anyone lessons about women. And they shouldn't be picked on for not doing so. You guys are doing it again by asking good questions and once again I don't know how to respond I need to think about this one

I know you are being serious It does sound confusing but its because we arent explaining the background and the background is very complicated....well it is on my side

Is making an emotional connection a requirement to enjoy what they do? You have asked a very important question...so the reality is for most guys its not..and it doesn't need to be. Sometimes you see guys who actually resent strippers but still go to those clubs...its a bizarre situation But for me I have simple rule, so you walk into a stripclub and the girls graviate towards you..thats there job. But they want a private dance where they make the most money and they push this which is understandable but I always refuse and buy them a drink and spend at least 30 minutes chatting to them...if there is no connection on some kind of level or they don't want to talk then its not worth IMO continuing with the engagement...but the talking is important

I don't even... Doing it for yourself is when it's done in your bedroom alone. And even then (provided heterosexuality) it is an act inseparable from the desires and preferences of men, it is an act of presenting yourself in a way that is sexually appealing to the other gender. Being an object of desire is where the fun in it is. Yeah, object. The profession of stripper exist because there is a demand for it. It may be fun for some. But it doesn't exist because it's fun. It's purpose and function is the sexual gratification of others. Men or women. Nothing wrong there. Being a stripper is a FICTION. Get it? That's why they dress up to be CHARACTERS. Like a sexy nurse, cop, or Tarzan, whatever. I don't know what is so hard to understand about the fact that in one case, there is a person having agency under the persona, whereas in the other one, it's a literal object-in-the-dictionary-sense existing purely for gratification? Since reading comprehension seems to be a problem in a segment of the community, I also feel the need to note that I included no moral condemnation of the existence of these objects, just pointed out that there's a difference between the two. Guys I need to add something very relevant because I do frequent strip clubs When I go to one I end up talking and getting to know the stripers, sometimes its substantive and sometimes its just the alcohol. Sometimes they will even come out afterwards with me to a bar or club and sometimes we remain friends. The point being is what alumin is saying is true. Its a real person with real emotions and goals in life....the computer stripper is pixels....0's and 1's ..you can't possibly have the same emotional connection with that as the computer stripper is there for a one dimensional experience...sexual gratification

Ah, what else can one expect from your kind. And Bruce, go get necklaced. Malc thats it !!!! We had an agreement that you wouldn't blame me when you a bad Moose day.....its not my fault that your pet Moose ran into your neighbours gooseberry bush and started munching We discussed this and you agreed...you are transferring your frustration to me ..and its unfair

...Fictional strippers entirely brought into existence by men, to increase a game's appeal for men is somewhat different from real life, living, breathing, flesh-and-blood people choosing to do that job because - Heavens forbid! - they enjoy it. Phewwwwwww,.....I am so glad you decided to comment...I was completely stumped Guys what alumin said...there is a difference

No, that's not what I am saying. I am saying the E.U. really messed up on this, and that the outcome is very unfortunate. It's easy to equate this to National vs. European, but it's impossible to do that because the national governments are an integral part of the E.U. through the various bodies that make up the E.U. that consist of ministers from the governments. It's more like... European Commission v.s. rest of the E.U. institutions. It's all sorts of complicated. No. The EU did not mess up on this. The national governments messed up on this. It's easy to equate to national vs. European because that's what it is. The elected body of EU representatives made this, and when it was sent out to the governments, they botched it, because specific governments did not want it. Saying that the Council of European Ministers is a part of the EU is very disingenuous. It is simply the place where the respective governments are supposed to rubber-stamp EU decisions. If you regard this as a part of the EU, then the your problem is simply that you want to make EU decision making independent of national governments, like I said. You make a very compelling argument, i doubt anyone will dispute what you saying

Keyrock I may be missing something but it seems to me you don't want us to discuss Bioware anymore..if thats the case then just say so. I prefer brutal honesty

Did you read what I posted before? They are probably dont denying entertainment but pain Sure, I did read it ..we will have to agree to disagree You funny

And that's a fair complaint in its way. But the problem is I see people complain that Bioware is recylcing their old games and then in the same breath that Bioware has moved away from the things that made their old games good. And just about every level of nitpick imaginable. And when that happens (IMO) the problem the critic has isn't really with the game anymore, they've got a grudge against the company that no game would fix. Plus " Bioware-Bashing " is vogue...it has become this way since many old school gamers feel betrayed by the perceived changes that Bioware has gone through around there game design Yes some criticism is valid but much of it is just fastidiousness But I'm lucky, I can easily say that BG2 (Viconia my love ) was the greatest RPG I have ever played yet I still enjoy the new Bioware games and I must add I respect them even more for the difficult and controversial decision they took to embrace certain SJ developments like same-sex relationship... IMO this was much harder to do than people realize So when I play there games I am entertained...not inspired...but I feel games should really only be about entertainment. If you expect anything more you will probably be disappointed Everyone have different tastes on what he consider entertaining. For example I am unable to enjoy shallow gameplay mechanics in favor to fancy graphics. Some people like simple games but shiny. Its a lot about personality, someone like chess other consider playing them pain rather then fun. Thats why there is problem with people converting their games to appeal audience which is opposite to their previous one and most of the times mutually exclusive Sure, I get your point. But thats why I did say some people have legitimate reasons for not liking Bioware games...I still think they are denying themselves some great entertainment

Do you think that? You seem pro Anita and her kind. This is her kind of opinion. Mmmm..I need to think about it I don't think I have ever been specifically against strippers in games and I do use adult mods so I can't claim to be opposed to it....yet I am opposed to certain cases of objectification of women It gets complicated, I'll get back to you

I don't suppose anyone feels like hearing one of those annoying " you guys shouldn't complain, you don't know how lucky you are " sententious comments Cause if you were I would say " if you think thats bad...you should come live in most African countries....then you will realize how irrelevant these types of developments are when you see how much the EU has going for it "

No you are being honest, its important in life that we are able to express our excitement without fear of ridicule..its good to see. You should be excited, the game is going to be epicccccccccccccccccccc

It's not what I think. I thought this should be clear from my stance on "objectification" issues. It's what the people that complain about these things think. I don't have a problem with it. And, yes, I think if you think fictional strippers are sexist but real ones are not it's hypocrisy. Oh I see your point...I never thought about it before Are you suggesting that because I think strippers in games are unacceptable but in RL I have no issue with them I am contradicting myself ?

And that's a fair complaint in its way. But the problem is I see people complain that Bioware is recylcing their old games and then in the same breath that Bioware has moved away from the things that made their old games good. And just about every level of nitpick imaginable. And when that happens (IMO) the problem the critic has isn't really with the game anymore, they've got a grudge against the company that no game would fix. Plus " Bioware-Bashing " is vogue...it has become this way since many old school gamers feel betrayed by the perceived changes that Bioware has gone through around there game design Yes some criticism is valid but much of it is just fastidiousness But I'm lucky, I can easily say that BG2 (Viconia my love ) was the greatest RPG I have ever played yet I still enjoy the new Bioware games and I must add I respect them even more for the difficult and controversial decision they took to embrace certain SJ developments like same-sex relationship... IMO this was much harder to do than people realize So when I play there games I am entertained...not inspired...but I feel games should really only be about entertainment. If you expect anything more you will probably be disappointed

Well he is right, or are you going to peddle more of your bull**** ? Ah Malc, another one of my loyal fans on these forums...I dont know what I would do if you didn't believe and support me as much as you do. I would probably get depressed Should he be spitting on anyone? True, rational people don't conduct themselves like that but lets be honest. We are dealing with GG and anti-GG and there are elements in both those groups that probably consider spitting on people perfectly reasonable

Exactly, that was what I thought. I assumed Nonek was talking about the joke. Why can't others understand me like you TN ......

Well technically he isn't spitting on his consumers....he is spitting on GG supporters But Nonek his joke is very juvenile anyway and not really funny. So I'm surprised you are getting upset? Or rather let me ask you this...does this type of thing upset you ? Troll somebody else Bruce i'm tired of your hypocritical act. Geez Nonek.....you definitely got out of the wrong side of bed this morning

Well technically he isn't spitting on his consumers....he is spitting on GG supporters But Nonek his joke is very juvenile anyway and not really funny. So I'm surprised you are getting upset? Or rather let me ask you this...does this type of thing upset you ?

Happy Bday TN

To be honest, if they really had hired erotic dancers, I think that would really have been unacceptable. But following the links, and looking at the models, I don't think that's the case. Can't say about the Nvidia party - but yeah, if they hired erotic dancers, I could see that being a problem at a work related party. Why it would be problem? So everyone can look at erotic dancers except game developers? LOL Because it's a work related party. I don't care if the erotic dancers are male or female, so it's not an "objectifying women" thing, I just don't think throwing a party with strippers is a smart thing to do if it is work related. For one, it's obviously bad P.R., but even if you ignore that, it's hardly very inclusive. There's bound to be people working at the company who have no desire to be at a party where there's semi-naked people. Now, of course, there are exceptions: if the company in question is, say, Brazzers - then yes, it would be appropriate, but this is NVidia. Of course, you could say: well, don't go to the party then. In answer to that: sure, if you don't want to make promotion in the company, then sure, don't go to the party. So as you guys know I work in the corporate industry. I have been to functions, product launches and parties where there are women who dance on tables or on the stage. But to be clear they not strippers they are professional dancers but they wear revealing attire, I don't see anything wrong with this . But yes I imagine if there were real strippers that would be inappropriate for many people including women. Okay thanks for this link, now I understand I do think that women overacted a little by resigning but I suppose you have to consider how some people would react to scantily dressed women at a function..there does have to be level of professionalism?

50 Shades is subpar because if you ever try reading it, the editing is awful, the prose is as written by a 14 year old teenager, the bdsm is BAD bdsm, and the romance is much more of an abusive manipulation than actual romance. But for some reason a large portion of the female population have found that titillating and romantic. Then again, a chunk of the population found the stalkerish behaviour of Edward Cullen in Twilight romantic. "I'm over 100 and you're 17, I'll break into your room because I like to watch you sleep...." Have you ever asked yourself why so many women enjoy 50 shades? Do you think the women who enjoy that book can't determine for yourselves if its worthwhile? Because I can guarantee its not because the editing or prose or Romance that they like the idea and narrative Without being dismissive have you asked any of your lady friends why they like the book...and I know you do have a large circle of female friends so I imagine some of them would have read it ?