BruceVC

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair But yet you guys complaining my country police raid a church.... Do they openly manifest hatred towards citizens of your country and talk about infidels that need to be killed and your laws forcefully changed? They create disharmony, their new version of Malaysian Bible causing too much already, despite it being banned, they insist on publish it. The raid is to confisticate those books, it's illegal books. As an American I find the combination of the words "Illegal" and "books" to be altogether alien concept. But hey, that's just how we are. Now as far as what Darkpriest pointed out that France was considering closing Mosques. Bad idea. I'm all fine and good with arresting the Imams and religious leaders who violate French law by promoting sedition (this is illegal in France) but closing the Mosque becomes an attack on the institution itself. Do not become the monsters ISIS propaganda already say's you are. They want to refight the crusades with themselves cast in the role of the "morally superior aggrieved party" and the west as the "evil crusaders". The titles are meaningless in a practical sense but as others have pointed out it becomes an automatic and effective recruiting tool. I'm not sure about this, we are talking about closing down Mosques who practice hate speech....this would be made official and clearly seen as a punishment. You do realize that of course other extremists or just other Sunni Muslims who share ideological empathy with ISIS would have prayed and been aware of this attack so they are probably celebrating now at the success of the attack ...why shoulld Mosques like this be allowed to stay open? Qistina what do you think? An eye for a eye, ISIS understands this type of dialogue

Guys for all of you who live in Europe before you agree to being fine with France closing down Mosques please understand what this will mean for all of you going forward. I'm not trying to an alarmist I just want you to understand what may possibly happen as a consequence Certain extremists will now look at the whole EU as a legitimate target, this is manageable but people like Meshugger are you prepared to accept Finland may get attacked? If you Europeans are fine with this then stay the course, I would accept this if I was living in Europe

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair But yet you guys complaining my country police raid a church.... Do they openly manifest hatred towards citizens of your country and talk about infidels that need to be killed and your laws forcefully changed? They create disharmony, their new version of Malaysian Bible causing too much already, despite it being banned, they insist on publish it. The raid is to confisticate those books, it's illegal books. I was going to respond about the number of ISIS fighters from the west and how a huuuge majority of them are second or third generation arabs living in self-segregated ghettos (http://www.rferl.org/contentinfographics/foreign-fighters-syria-iraq-is-isis-isil-infographic/26584940.html) but then you posted a jem like that. Don't ever leave, you're the gift that keeps on giving. But this link tells us what we already knew, groups like ISIS always have support from foreigner fighters. This is typical of who supports them What are you guys saying this link tells us ? .

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair wards citizens of your country and talk about infidels that need to be killed and your laws forcefully changed? They create disharmony, their new version of Malaysian Bible causing too much already, despite it being banned, they insist on publish it. The raid is to confisticate those books, it's illegal books. By that reasoning we should expel all muslims from EU, because they create disharmony with the cultural background of the EU continent... I mean, how can you even compare Hate Speech leading to violence and mass murders vs. publishing a book? What is in it that creates disharmony? I mean I'd like to try to understand it... I just can't see it being anywhere on the same level of threat to civil population (knowing the christian rhetoric and how their leaders present themselves). Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair But yet you guys complaining my country police raid a church.... Do they openly manifest hatred towards citizens of your country and talk about infidels that need to be killed and your laws forcefully changed? They create disharmony, their new version of Malaysian Bible causing too much already, despite it being banned, they insist on publish it. The raid is to confisticate those books, it's illegal books. Yes it may seem we are being critical of only Muslims who spread hate speech but I agree if the law in Malaysia says the Malaysian Bible needs to be banned then yes a raid would be justified Malaysia is a Muslim country and like the Middle East if the government thinks a bible is creating disharmony then ban it I'm not religious so I would leave this decision up to the actual governments. Guys we should understand this because if France does decide to close down certain Mosques there will be major resistance from certain Muslims in France and we should be consistent in our view that governments have a right to close down religious buildings but we cant complain if Malaysia decided to ban a bible as they should also have this right

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair

Shady do you mind sharing why you personally don't like Hilary, I am interested in all Americans opinions because I am trying to see if I am missing something about her that Americans would be aware of but not a foreigner like me I think Elerond gave a better response than I ever could I would also never support someone just because of race or gender either and did not vote for Obama in 2008 (even though I did in 2012) Also Okay that chart is ....concerning How accurate is it and what questions was she asked ? It's an aggregate of several polls. One on its own may be inconsequential. But taken together, they're useful enough. Nate Silver/Fivethirtyeight has graded the various individual pollsters: http://fivethirtyeight.com/interactives/pollster-ratings/ Okay this is a much better picture ....thx

Hahaha. You're alright Bruce. Your views are terrible but you can handle the banter. Okay but then I have no idea what type of SJ you believe in? I assumed you had similar views to me, not about Capitalism but the importance of a fair and equitable society and that would mean realistically you need to uplift people to the middle class at least So what US president do you support The difference is that liberals think welfare is the way up, but don't realize that like children people have to be pushed or else they will still be 30 without a job in their parents house playing video games. Okay good point, to be clear I don't believe in state welfare...no this is not what I would consider is sustainable or is about job creation. I doubt any Liberal in the USA would actually say this as welfare just holds people back as it gets abused? US democrats use welfare to keep blacks as their spoiled children so they keep voting Democrat and cant be bothered by anyone abusing the system. I know this for a fact because I work weekends on a supermarket and I've seen welfare cards that have 1000+ dollars in their account, meanwhile I work with people whose whole family work 2 jobs almost every day and were denied welfare. Seriously; **** welfare, It doesn't work. It is not helping the hardworking to get ahead and it is only making sure that their dollars go to help some shameless people that have no scruples cheating the system. You want to help poor people, then control government spending and get rid of sales taxes as well as some other ridiculous taxes. Orog what you suggesting is a serious indictment of how to abuse the welfare system and worse than that this type of corruption actually wouldn't benefit African Americans. It goes against everything the Democrats believe and I can't imagine is wide spread?

Shady do you mind sharing why you personally don't like Hilary, I am interested in all Americans opinions because I am trying to see if I am missing something about her that Americans would be aware of but not a foreigner like me I think Elerond gave a better response than I ever could I would also never support someone just because of race or gender either and did not vote for Obama in 2008 (even though I did in 2012) Also Okay that chart is ....concerning How accurate is it and what questions was she asked ?

Hahaha. You're alright Bruce. Your views are terrible but you can handle the banter. Okay but then I have no idea what type of SJ you believe in? I assumed you had similar views to me, not about Capitalism but the importance of a fair and equitable society and that would mean realistically you need to uplift people to the middle class at least So what US president do you support The difference is that liberals think welfare is the way up, but don't realize that like children people have to be pushed or else they will still be 30 without a job in their parents house playing video games. Okay good point, to be clear I don't believe in state welfare...no this is not what I would consider is sustainable or is about job creation. I doubt any Liberal in the USA would actually say this as welfare just holds people back as it gets abused?

Hahaha. You're alright Bruce. Your views are terrible but you can handle the banter. Okay but then I have no idea what type of SJ you believe in? I assumed you had similar views to me, not about Capitalism but the importance of a fair and equitable society and that would mean realistically you need to uplift people to the middle class at least So what US president do you support

Maybe, I'm not sure what Baro actually thinks about issues because he seems fine to insult people but cant actually respond to a simple question. And I doubt its because " he won't speak to BruceVC " because he seems fine with sarcasm?

Are you a Hilary supporter as well ? Why do you support her ?

Shady do you mind sharing why you personally don't like Hilary, I am interested in all Americans opinions because I am trying to see if I am missing something about her that Americans would be aware of but not a foreigner like me

Yep, hadn't heard that term before - sounds like someone tossing you in a ditch. My job wasn't that bad, but had gotten super crappy of late, Management had a 'Vision' at sometime and I guess that's when things changed. But yes, will have to find something interesting or at least not as abhorrent. Yes and Malc I am not patronizing you when I say rather look for a job you enjoy...its more important than the money because the money will follow once you enjoy your job

Yes of course I know he is being sarcastic KP ignores me anyway ...but I'm funny hey

Well I dont know what to say, I never thought you would agree with me on this. But its probably misplaced to assume any government cannot abuse its power so rather be aware of this one....but now you understand what I meant when I said you can have freedom but also be monitored

KP please dont just vote for Bernie because he is Jewish and you think people will see you as more liberal and committed to transformation....only vote for him if you believe he is a better choice than Hilary.... Now you probably wondering why I'm telling you this...I know you young guys sometimes want to embellish your SJ status ...but let things develop naturally

WOD please you and I do have several things in common like our condemnation of Snowden But please dont tell me you believe in conspiracy theories....the USA didnt commit 9/11to themselves or somehow knew it was going to happen

I admire this post because you clearly are passionate about the topic and that story about the sacrifice is sad yet admirable

oh, well, because you know it, it must be true. everyone knows that the majority o' media sources in malaysia is state controlled-- a tool for misleading their people. everyone knows that religious and personal freedoms in malaysia are limited compared to virtual all western nations. everyone knows that a disheartening percentage o' populace o' malaysians polled support isis, and that a disturbing number has joined to fight with isis. see, we can put "everyone knows" in front o' a statement and make it true. no? 'course our statements actual is true, but so it goes. bah. bruce is correct. this thread is complete off the rails and almost nobody is speaking 'bout paris attacks anyways. done. getting nowhere with increasingly agitated qistina or willingly following zor as he once again circles down the drain is pointless. HA! Good Fun! There are no Americans who support ISIS? I heard most of ISIS members are Americans, and white No, ISIS consists of Sunni Arabs and Sunni Muslims from foreign countries and yes there are Sunni Muslims who do join them from Western countries but no that many from the USA http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2015/04/us/americans-isis/

Lets forget the word image then, the point I'm trying to make is it seems that many white, males vote for the Republicans for valid reasons Yet for reasons mentioned I don't think the Republicans will win this next election. Now its not because white males who vote for the Republicans are redundant or should just accept " there won't be a Republican president because of the way minorities always vote for Democrats " ,,,no WOD this is just an excuse to not make some reasonable changes to the Republican ideology Of course you don't have to make any changes but the Republicans can win an election...but the change needs to come from within But anyway lets see after the election

Excellent question, I like her not just because she is women.....yes thats part of it but she is going to be the Democratic candidate and I do believe with her history of service she is qualified So many of you guys think she is just saying what people want to hear and she doesn't really believe what she says. Well the Democrats have ostensibly got a winning strategy which is based fundamentally on a belief that the middle class needs to be uplifted and supported and the federal government should intervene in some cases. Hilary Clinton says she supports this and I believe her because she is a Democrat, what is it people think she should be saying to be sincere? Now for me this makes perfect sense, if you grow the middle class in any country you will have more spending power. Yes you won't have as many self-made millionaires but lets be realistic is becoming a millionaire in the USA still a goal people consider as paramount? The objectives of Obama and the Democrats despite what people think is not to undermine white males at the expense of minorities...so I guess I am still not sure why you guys don't like Hilary Clinton?

That's what US government was doing, wasn't it? And you're upset that Snowden exposed it. Please correct me if i missed something. What the US government was doing was looking for any pattern of communication between known terrorist groups, individuals and supporters of terrorism. They were not "spying on everybody" despite what Putin, Assange and the free Russian press might be telling you. Yes this is 100% correct, the real damage seems to be from Americans and people on these forums like KP who feel there government betrayed them Well even Europalament MPs thinks that Snowden did the right thing... http://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2015/10/european-parliament-votes-to-shield-snowden-from-extradition-to-us/ Yeah, that doesnt surprise me The EU also makes the occasional mistake ...its not perfect

And why would you say he doesn't resonate as you claim? And is it his fault he if he doesn't? Unusual on these forums, but appreciated. I can't be happy with those changes because I'm rational, and I've studied history, and I believe I understand something of human nature. The whole Democrat strategy is to pander to minorities, set races against each other and create racial strife and a sense of victimization to motivate those same minorities to turn out and vote for Democrats, using lies and propaganda as necessary with the help of their ally the Main Stream Media, just look at what happened in Ferguson or the Zimmerman/Martin case. It is also to replace native American voters with immigrants, legal and illegal, since they're known to vote Democrat by large majorities. Trump was talking about illegal aliens, and there are criminals among them, no doubt about it. http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/11/14/trump-embraces-parents-children-murdered-illegal-immigrants/ Note the number of murders committed by illegals in that article. I personally knew one of the victims mentioned, Spencer Galvach, btw. We're tired of Obola letting in illegals to murder Americans and we're not going to stand for it. Large number of Hispanics want to be pandered to by us rewarding their friends and relatives for breaking our law, but we will not bring the rope to our own hanging no matter what progs like you think. You may be right, lets see in the election....but lets make a deal if Clinton wins will you at least start considering that the Republicans need to work on there image?

Like i said, America never give a fair deal, but that doesn't mean we no longer have dealings with USA...Presiden Obama just visited Malaysia you know...he come with a treaty, another unfair deal...the TTPA... It is a convenient the president visit us after the incident of MH370 and MH17............we know your game........ calling bs. if deal were so bad, then why were f/a 18 e/f a finalist along with grippen and russian su 30 mkms in malaysia's recent attempt to upgrade air force? malaysia continued to get hornet support from boeing and the us dod in the form o' continued training hardware upgrades. you are being fed bs from your media and naive if you think that the us provided empty hornet shells to malaysia over a decade ago and that malaysia has continued to cooperate with us to upgrade, maintain, and train pilots for those hornets... as well as making new hornets a finalist for their recent fighter aircraft upgrade. nonsense. all o' which is so utterly irrelevant to what is going on in paris and the middle east and africa. aside, we agree with bruce and others that focus on paris is unfortunate but understandable. we personal were annoyed when the charlie hebdo stuff were occupying headlines when at similar time an entire town in northern nigeria were razed by boko haram. we complained 'bout the lack o' sympathy for the folks o' baga on these boards (http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66161-boko-haram-and-the-kidnpping-of-the-school-girls/?p=1556307) nigeria claims that 150 people were killed and and thousands displaced (as opposed to the estimates o' anywhere from 1000 to 2000 fatalities from more objective sources). baga shoulda' garnered more attention. unfortunately, news o' violence in the middle east and africa is so common that it westerners rare pay attention to such stuff. have a story that only 150 people died in africa and middle east in 2015 due to sectarian violence and THAT would be a story. is terrible, but we expect violence and bloodshed in the middle east. is not news if is ordinary? maybe. HA! Good Fun! Gromnir why do feel the need to debate like this with Qistina ? You can't really feel the need to win this debate and it should be obvious that there is a language translation problem and lack of overall insight on certain matters,,,,this is not Zora you are debating with, with him you always have to win well, we had stopped... then we saw the antichrist stuff. *eye roll* spew that kinda nonsense and then claim that western media is giving distorted view o' malaysia's islamic state? were funny... and wrong. as an aside, we prefer our antichrist riding a trike https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg9-axPBw1g HA! Good Fun! Y Yeah I hear you, its not just you but everyone on this thread seems very keen to challenge Qistina because of her views on certain topics But I just think " why " , end of the day we all know that sometimes our views are shaped by circumstances and you won't change that so for me its just seems pointless