BruceVC

We need to be cautious. Russia is a member of the ISIS coalition and the only reason this happened was because they are indeed heavily invested in there bombing campaign We must recognize the Russian contribution and accept this accident, I am hoping Russia will send ground troops into the ISIS territories so we can finally end this godforsaken war that exists in this benighted land where Western troops are not liked yet are expected to intervene I dont want the West to lose anymore troops but the Russians are angry and they are new to the overall conflict so it makes sense they send the required infantry If Russia sent there its own troops, then there is high change that Syria and Iraq then become part of Russian Federation. And I am not sure if that is what anybody even Russians want. 1. Russia isn't going to be sending ground troops. Their goal is to force a peace process and keep Assad in power, not to retake the country for him. 2. Syria and Iraq becoming part of RF? What? How does that work? In scenario where Russia sends ground troops to take areas from ISIS they don't just need to march in and shoot some people that oppose it, because ISIS members will just become part of civilian population and take over again when those troops go away. To prevent that they need to actually conquer those areas and establish new rule which takes time and effort to build infrastructure, governmental control, dismantling current power structures etc.. Also we have USA's attempt as burden that shows that trusting local governance isn't necessary working policy and Russian current desire to show that it's world's super power and it's able to do same and even more than USA. And then why Syria and Iraq become part of RF, that is because actually accomplishing all previously mentioned things Russia (or any other country that tries to do it) needs at least decade worth of time and effort to build new working order there. And if Russian current political climate don't change in that decade it could be very difficult thing for Russian leadership just give up control of those lands even though they don't necessary want to keep them, as those lands have quite lot natural resources that interest parties behind Russian political elite. So I am saying that Russia (or any other party) sending troops to combat ISIS has high change to become permanent occupation even if such is against their interests. Holy Smoke dude you Finns like to treat people fairly....no way the Russians if they did send troops would be there longer than they absolutely have to and they wouldn't be too concerned with civilians ...but they wouldn't go in guns blazing One month maximum but there would be Russian casualties

I agree it really seems like a stupid thing for Turkey to do to shoot down a Russian plane even if they were on Russian airspace...I doubt they would do this to an American plane? But it doesn't require a response, the Russians are saying they have proof it wasn't in Turkey airspace so lets just wait and see But why anyone thinks Russia would want to go to war with Turkey boggles the mind

We need to be cautious. Russia is a member of the ISIS coalition and the only reason this happened was because they are indeed heavily invested in there bombing campaign We must recognize the Russian contribution and accept this accident, I am hoping Russia will send ground troops into the ISIS territories so we can finally end this godforsaken war that exists in this benighted land where Western troops are not liked yet are expected to intervene I dont want the West to lose anymore troops but the Russians are angry and they are new to the overall conflict so it makes sense they send the required infantry If Russia sent there its own troops, then there is high change that Syria and Iraq then become part of Russian Federation. And I am not sure if that is what anybody even Russians want. The Russians are not very good at dealing with Muslims ....they wouldnt want to absorb Iraq or Syria....lets be honest both these countries are basically dysfunctional. Who would want to try to fix either country....maybe the Iranians ?

Nah. its a war zone and accidents happen ...Russia knows this It was not accident, because Turkey knew that there was no aircrafts that are hostile for them in air. It was just show of power from Turkey. Yes sorry you are right...I read the link now

We need to be cautious. Russia is a member of the ISIS coalition and the only reason this happened was because they are indeed heavily invested in there bombing campaign We must recognize the Russian contribution and accept this accident, I am hoping Russia will send ground troops into the ISIS territories so we can finally end this godforsaken war that exists in this benighted land where Western troops are not liked yet are expected to intervene I dont want the West to lose anymore troops but the Russians are angry and they are new to the overall conflict so it makes sense they send the required infantry

Nah. its a war zone and accidents happen ...Russia knows this

;Yes this is a problem, well done Zora finally some worthwhile anti-Western news. Strange how I can't recall you actually ever making a post yet this news was important enough to you to " let us know due to the gravitas " I doubt Russia will attack Turkey in anyway...this was a tragedy and Russia will have to absorb it as the West has had to do many times

Okay now you have made me remember a real criticism I have of the Muslim world ...I hope you can answer Why is the Muslim world fine with the fact that the EU is taking in about 2 million Syrian Muslims. Why should the EU be taking in any Syrians? How many refugees is Malaysia taking in? Countries like Saudi Arabia are taking in none ...none. Yet the Muslim world is fine with these Syrians going to leave there home in the ME and going to a Christian country?And we know that many Muslims have issues with the EU ....yet obviously these issues aren't enough to want to help the Syrians I explained earlier that one of the reasons that makes the West the most dominant ideology in the world is it believes in human rights...this a good example of that @ Qistina We appreciate you telling us how we feel about things but can you answer this post? Malaysia have been taking refugees since Afghan War, Gulf War, Bosnia War...what else? We are small country, we can't take anymore refugees, you know Rohingya refugees? They are too many and it's dangerous if we take them in. So we don't take them. Malaysia size is about Britain size actually. How do you expect we want to take loads of people, we will be blown up like balloon... https://mapfight.appspot.com/my-vs-us/malaysia-united-states-size-comparison https://mapfight.appspot.com/my-vs-gb/malaysia-united-kingdom-size-comparison See now? USA and Europe are big mass of land, so you guys have no problems taking a lot of refugees Okay thats understandable about Malaysia but what about the fact that the Gulf countries like UAE and Saudi aren't prepared to take one Syrian. Why would they not offer to help fellow Muslims ....is this because of the Shia\Sunni tension?

I read that link about Sweden, surly that can't be right....it makes it out like Sweden is some barbaric land? It looks thing from very single minded perspective that cause it to interpret things so that they fit article's writers and publication's political views. Meaning that it is very typical Breitbart article and you should not believe anything that you can#t confirm from other sources. But Sweden is barbaric land, every Finn will tell you that is the case I'll be honest if I was a Swede I would be offended by that article....I am not a swede and I was offended ...what political views do Breitbart follow? It is right-wing and mostly pro-republican publication. Ah..okay but I wonder why they feel the need to attack Sweden.....do they realize Sweden is consistently in the top 5 countries that have the happiest citizens in the world ?

Okay now you have made me remember a real criticism I have of the Muslim world ...I hope you can answer Why is the Muslim world fine with the fact that the EU is taking in about 2 million Syrian Muslims. Why should the EU be taking in any Syrians? How many refugees is Malaysia taking in? Countries like Saudi Arabia are taking in none ...none. Yet the Muslim world is fine with these Syrians going to leave there home in the ME and going to a Christian country?And we know that many Muslims have issues with the EU ....yet obviously these issues aren't enough to want to help the Syrians I explained earlier that one of the reasons that makes the West the most dominant ideology in the world is it believes in human rights...this a good example of that @ Qistina We appreciate you telling us how we feel about things but can you answer this post?

I read that link about Sweden, surly that can't be right....it makes it out like Sweden is some barbaric land? It looks thing from very single minded perspective that cause it to interpret things so that they fit article's writers and publication's political views. Meaning that it is very typical Breitbart article and you should not believe anything that you can#t confirm from other sources. But Sweden is barbaric land, every Finn will tell you that is the case I'll be honest if I was a Swede I would be offended by that article....I am not a swede and I was offended ...what political views do Breitbart follow?

No but there are many people in the West who wont call ISIS Islamic because they are acting in a way that many Islamic commentators say they aren't Muslim. Obama for example doesn't refer to them as Islamic For me I don't know why people think it matters. As I said earlier most people know they don't represent the Muslim community Actually as long as we call them ISIS or ISIL we are calling them Islamic as we accept them to be part of Islam in their name. It is clever branding trick from their leaders. Even Daesh term, which said leaders are said to hate, has implication that they are Islamic. I would not be so bold and assume that most of people know that they don't represent Islam and Muslim community, because even though there isn't actually any good study about subject, so polls and political behavior seem to show that people link them more and more heavily to mainstream Islam. Seriously...you Finns as well? Guys I am really shocked that people look at ISIS and assume this is what the global Muslim community believes...but thanks for honesty Elerond why do people in the EU tease Sweden and say things like " the Swedes are all self-hating and they enjoy taking in refugees " ? I would guess it because that is how right-wing media in USA has pictured Sweden and some people in EU use that is as joke or ammunition depending on their political views. Like for example http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/04/20/self-loathing-sweden-should-only-welcome-persecuted-immigrants-not-the-persecuting/ In Finland I haven't seen such behavior, but Finland has long standing tradition to tease and mock Sweden for everything so we aren't influenced by others in that sector that much because they are usually far behind us anyway with their jokes and teases. But to actually answer your question I don't know and I am not sure if they even say such thing in any meaningful amounts outside of internet forums where it can be used to strengthen some individuals own political views. I read that link about Sweden, surly that can't be right....it makes it out like Sweden is some barbaric land?

No but there are many people in the West who wont call ISIS Islamic because they are acting in a way that many Islamic commentators say they aren't Muslim. Obama for example doesn't refer to them as Islamic For me I don't know why people think it matters. As I said earlier most people know they don't represent the Muslim community Actually as long as we call them ISIS or ISIL we are calling them Islamic as we accept them to be part of Islam in their name. It is clever branding trick from their leaders. Even Daesh term, which said leaders are said to hate, has implication that they are Islamic. I would not be so bold and assume that most of people know that they don't represent Islam and Muslim community, because even though there isn't actually any good study about subject, so polls and political behavior seem to show that people link them more and more heavily to mainstream Islam. Seriously...you Finns as well? Guys I am really shocked that people look at ISIS and assume this is what the global Muslim community believes...but thanks for honesty Elerond why do people in the EU tease Sweden and say things like " the Swedes are all self-hating and they enjoy taking in refugees " ? I would guess it because that is how right-wing media in USA has pictured Sweden and some people in EU use that is as joke or ammunition depending on their political views. Like for example http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/04/20/self-loathing-sweden-should-only-welcome-persecuted-immigrants-not-the-persecuting/ In Finland I haven't seen such behavior, but Finland has long standing tradition to tease and mock Sweden for everything so we aren't influenced by others in that sector that much because they are usually far behind us anyway with their jokes and teases. But to actually answer your question I don't know and I am not sure if they even say such thing in any meaningful amounts outside of internet forums where it can be used to strengthen some individuals own political views. Yes I think its a joke ....but I also think it was some sort of historical insult?

Okay now you have made me remember a real criticism I have of the Muslim world ...I hope you can answer Why is the Muslim world fine with the fact that the EU is taking in about 2 million Syrian Muslims. Why should the EU be taking in any Syrians? How many refugees is Malaysia taking in? Countries like Saudi Arabia are taking in none ...none. Yet the Muslim world is fine with these Syrians going to leave there home in the ME and going to a Christian country?And we know that many Muslims have issues with the EU ....yet obviously these issues aren't enough to want to help the Syrians I explained earlier that one of the reasons that makes the West the most dominant ideology in the world is it believes in human rights...this a good example of that

No, he has been very quite....Oby chased him away But you should only worry about committed forum members...people that care about you and don't just desert you...like me

No but there are many people in the West who wont call ISIS Islamic because they are acting in a way that many Islamic commentators say they aren't Muslim. Obama for example doesn't refer to them as Islamic For me I don't know why people think it matters. As I said earlier most people know they don't represent the Muslim community Actually as long as we call them ISIS or ISIL we are calling them Islamic as we accept them to be part of Islam in their name. It is clever branding trick from their leaders. Even Daesh term, which said leaders are said to hate, has implication that they are Islamic. I would not be so bold and assume that most of people know that they don't represent Islam and Muslim community, because even though there isn't actually any good study about subject, so polls and political behavior seem to show that people link them more and more heavily to mainstream Islam. Seriously...you Finns as well? Guys I am really shocked that people look at ISIS and assume this is what the global Muslim community believes...but thanks for honesty Elerond why do people in the EU tease Sweden and say things like " the Swedes are all self-hating and they enjoy taking in refugees " ?

No but there are many people in the West who wont call ISIS Islamic because they are acting in a way that many Islamic commentators say they aren't Muslim. Obama for example doesn't refer to them as Islamic For me I don't know why people think it matters. As I said earlier most people know they don't represent the Muslim community

Malc do you know what no one has thought of ....and its fine you can take credit for my idea Canada has huge territories of uninhabited land, forests and mountains ....lets be honest. Canada could invite another 100,000 Syrians and let them live in that uninhabited land ...its not like you would see them or be bothered by them It would be right thing to do

Malc...you Canadians have some weird social issues. Firstly Volo makes a post about Canadian varsity students not knowing what a Yoga class is now this....what about a single man who left his family in Syria, is Canada going to deny him chance to create a life for himself . You guys need my advice ....if I send you a PM maybe you print it out and give it you new PM...he is young and believes in SJ so he will think its from you who is a concerned citizen....the hardest part being can you pretend to be concerned about your country

mmmm......I dont think I agree with that, I guess I expect you guys to be a lot more cleverer than that...I hold you guys in high regard How hard is it to not assume that the actions of 20,000 extrmists don't represent 2 Billion muslims globally....did you guys honestlly not realize this? It seems like we need to state the obvious ?

US Media will never use the term Heretic/Heretical simply because - even as biased as our media is - being able to make a declaration like that implies the kind of position the media will never take because it requires them to declare that one side in non-Heretical. Even with the steping in Christian culture, groups like the Branch-Davidians are the Peoples Temple of the Disciples of Christ are going to be referred to as "sect" or "cult" and not "Heretical Christian movement" or similar. Yeah but Amentep I'm sure you can agree that a little bit of censorship in the USA wouldn't be a bad idea in the interest of social harmony? You can have a free society but you dont have to have the USA definition of free speech

Okay so what do you consider the likes of Al-Qaeda, Boko Haram, Al-Shabaab or ISIS I consider them extremist groups?

I'm not sure what you mean by labels? Who is labeling what?

I will interpret the Saudi Banking system more closely next time I am forced to go but I'm not sure what you think I'll learn? I just draw money from the ATM and the state of the Saudi banking system is irrelevant to me ? That has never been important to the West? Firstly the USA has been the worlds biggest producer of oil for over 2 years now http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-07-04/u-s-seen-as-biggest-oil-producer-after-overtaking-saudi I mention this because finally we can put to rest the conspiracy theory that the West only intervenes if oil is involved ...and you know I hate conspiracy theories Also the reason the oil price is so low is because it was Saudi Arabia who want to put the American energy producers out of business http://nypost.com/2015/01/11/saudi-arabias-crude-oil-price-war/ And the reason I'm mentioning this is because the USA doesn't even need Saudi Arabia anymore for oil so there alliance with Saudi Arabia is not just financial

Okay well thanks for explaining, I dont mind how you want to refer to Saudi Arabia in the Middle East The point is really that the other Gulf states follow there lead so that makes them very relevant in the ME